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Game has been stale since LOTV release. The only "changes" we've seen in the gameplay was :
- more drops from Z
- less adept/immo comps in PvT
- less disruptors in PvP
- a little mech in TvT, but only in KR
Appart from that, in huge majority :
- ZvZ is still the same
- ZvT is still about zerg turtling to T3 with roach ravagers while terran plays bio and tries to kill zerg before hive
- TvP is still about protoss doing some dirty BS while taking a third, while terran sacks half his SCVs to do a 3 base liberator push
- PvP is still the same
- TvT is still about marine tankivacs vs marine tankivacs
- ZvP is still the same but with more meta shifts than the other MUs
It's long overdue that all the unused units in the game (cyclone-raven-BCs-thor-carriers-VRs-SH) be looked at, and that units that are locking down the opponent into one single playstyle be looked at (or see their counters buffed)
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On August 15 2016 19:21 TheWildShooter wrote:
It's funny how no one noticed that cyclones are getting insane buffs, which in current version will make this unit OP.
I'm just gonna summarize some of the most important changes of Cyclone:
OLD -> NEW
Supply: 4 -> 3
HP: 120 -> 180
Range: 5 -> 6
DPS: 18 -> 30 (+30 vs armored)
As for DPS, even Liberators in defender mode have 53,125 DPS, and they want to give Cyclone 60 DPS vs armored.
And they can be reactored... #LegacyOfTheJoke
P.S. numbers for DPS are given in Blizzard seconds
PvT mass cyclone amove win?
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Let's see the cyclone in the test map before speculating too much. A unit that doesn't rely on a gimmick can always see its stats changed.
New cyclone doesn't rely on a gimmick. It's a footman with high DPS that'll help mech deal with positionnal checkmates and multiproned attack, while granting map presence.
SH still does, that's why changing its cost only is destined to fail.
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On August 15 2016 21:17 mantequilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 19:21 TheWildShooter wrote:
It's funny how no one noticed that cyclones are getting insane buffs, which in current version will make this unit OP.
I'm just gonna summarize some of the most important changes of Cyclone:
OLD -> NEW
Supply: 4 -> 3
HP: 120 -> 180
Range: 5 -> 6
DPS: 18 -> 30 (+30 vs armored)
As for DPS, even Liberators in defender mode have 53,125 DPS, and they want to give Cyclone 60 DPS vs armored.
And they can be reactored... #LegacyOfTheJoke
P.S. numbers for DPS are given in Blizzard seconds PvT mass cyclone amove win?
I believe its pretty even fight cause protoss has guardian shield.Until siege tanks or liberators arrive.
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Keep in mind that armor is going make an enormous difference in Cyclone DPS.
Against non-armored, with just 1 armor (which every Protoss unit has except the Probe I think?), Cyclones do only 2 damage per shot, a 33% reduction. Against high-armor targets that aren't Armored, they'll be near useless.
Guardian Shield is also going to be a massive counter against them.
They'll whack Stalkers pretty hard but I'm not sure they'll do the same to much of anything else.
Getting a weapon upgrade advantage though, without Guardian Shield? Then stuff might get nasty.
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8748 Posts
On August 15 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
Game has been stale since LOTV release.
w t f maybe from a super casual's perspective...
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United States8476 Posts
On August 15 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
Game has been stale since LOTV release. The only "changes" we've seen in the gameplay was :
- more drops from Z
- less adept/immo comps in PvT
- less disruptors in PvP
- a little mech in TvT, but only in KR
Appart from that, in huge majority :
- ZvZ is still the same
- ZvT is still about zerg turtling to T3 with roach ravagers while terran plays bio and tries to kill zerg before hive
- TvP is still about protoss doing some dirty BS while taking a third, while terran sacks half his SCVs to do a 3 base liberator push
- PvP is still the same
- TvT is still about marine tankivacs vs marine tankivacs
- ZvP is still the same but with more meta shifts than the other MUs
It's long overdue that all the unused units in the game (cyclone-raven-BCs-thor-carriers-VRs-SH) be looked at, and that units that are locking down the opponent into one single playstyle be looked at (or see their counters buffed)
Yea this is all wrong...
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On August 15 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
Game has been stale since LOTV release. The only "changes" we've seen in the gameplay was :
- more drops from Z
- less adept/immo comps in PvT
- less disruptors in PvP
- a little mech in TvT, but only in KR
Appart from that, in huge majority :
- ZvZ is still the same
- ZvT is still about zerg turtling to T3 with roach ravagers while terran plays bio and tries to kill zerg before hive
- TvP is still about protoss doing some dirty BS while taking a third, while terran sacks half his SCVs to do a 3 base liberator push
- PvP is still the same
- TvT is still about marine tankivacs vs marine tankivacs
- ZvP is still the same but with more meta shifts than the other MUs
It's long overdue that all the unused units in the game (cyclone-raven-BCs-thor-carriers-VRs-SH) be looked at, and that units that are locking down the opponent into one single playstyle be looked at (or see their counters buffed)
As a zerg player I won't address the matchups which aren't zerg related, but for the zerg related matchups the only one you are right on is ZvZ.
The bane buff can make early ling bane pushes even harder to counter, but who knows how will it turn out.
In ZvT, with the tank buff and the ravager nerf, turtling to T3 tech with an RR army is going to be much harder.Puhsing into terrans will be imposiible with a roach ravager combo, as they are both armored and will be shred by tanks (tanks will 2 shot ravagers!).
And Ultras won't be that powerful lategame anymore. Moreover, the cyclone may also turn into a roach ravager counter, which will make it impossible turtiling with those to get the T3 tech. Its hard now, and will be impossible with the tank buff.
Terran will lose its ability to harass with tankivacs, but it seems like the mech route will be much more viable then bio for terran in this match-up (reactored buffed cyclones will make cyclone helion openers viable). Something which will bring back the viper to the game (blinding cloud will counter tanks again) as well as abducting those costly units (like thors libs, and so on). And the hydra and bane buffs will make them as the preffered tech paths rather then the roach ravager in the match-up (banes vs bio, hydra vs mech) which can also make the lurker as unit to go for in this matchup. The SH is already used by some grandmasters vs mech terrans, and with its buffs (which will be certainly reduced), it can also be seen in the math up as terrans will probably prefer (or at least consider) the mech tech choice. In other words, in my opinion it will break compleltey the current meta where terran is very powerful in the mid game and the minute zerg gets to the late game terrans must find their way securing their 4th, 5th, and so on. I'm a diamond zerg player who plays the RR into ultras style a lot, so I do know what its weaknesses are, all of which are addressed with the buffed terran units and the nerfed ravager.
In ZvP it seems like the hydra and bane buffs with the ravager nerf will shift the meta. Any choice the zerg makes the toss will have an answer to and vice versa. Tempests in low numbers will be definitely something to go for in the late game, which will again make vipers an interesting unit to go for zerg. With the infestor buffs (as the SH ones, I don't see all of them passing the test) we can see this unit in this match-up. Currently, ZvP is one of the most interesting math-ups. Protoss have different tech routes to go for, while zerg can adjust accordingly, and each race can force different endings to the game. Choosing one tech path for the T3 units is risky while forced, as each T3 unit has good counter (for both races), so I don't have any problems with making it even more fun and forcing the zerg being more adaptive. It was my worst math-up a month ago, but I'm having fun with it now, as there are so many ways to play it.
My terran and prottoss are gold like, so I can't speak for the other 3 match ups.
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as long as we dont have turtle mech im good, thats why i stopped playing and came back in LOTV
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Oh nice... the Mech-promoting changes may get me back into the game. Will have to test them soon. 
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i hope tempest magic ball damage doesnt stack itself.
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Blizzard still has no idea what they are doing. How does the SC2 team still have a job when they have failed to deliver after 4 years and literally taking SC2 from height of e-sports to the bottom. They need to let the team go and start fresh.
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still removing tankivac isn't the best way.
speaking about tvt bio vs mech and that mech players don't build medivacs and can't use tankivacs, adding 1 more sec to open fire cooldown of tanks when they jump out of medivacs sounds like a good idea for a test map.
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That's exactly the way to go!
I don't care whether the experts from the glorious community think the changes are great or not, but making big changes is in any case the right way to keep interest in the game going. I am definitely looking forward to it!
However the opening post is unclear on the exact realizoation: is there already a PTR or something? Or is it just planned?
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So Tankivacs gone? One reason to come back and start playing again!
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On August 15 2016 22:24 bulya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
Game has been stale since LOTV release. The only "changes" we've seen in the gameplay was :
- more drops from Z
- less adept/immo comps in PvT
- less disruptors in PvP
- a little mech in TvT, but only in KR
Appart from that, in huge majority :
- ZvZ is still the same
- ZvT is still about zerg turtling to T3 with roach ravagers while terran plays bio and tries to kill zerg before hive
- TvP is still about protoss doing some dirty BS while taking a third, while terran sacks half his SCVs to do a 3 base liberator push
- PvP is still the same
- TvT is still about marine tankivacs vs marine tankivacs
- ZvP is still the same but with more meta shifts than the other MUs
It's long overdue that all the unused units in the game (cyclone-raven-BCs-thor-carriers-VRs-SH) be looked at, and that units that are locking down the opponent into one single playstyle be looked at (or see their counters buffed) As a zerg player I won't address the matchups which aren't zerg related, but for the zerg related matchups the only one you are right on is ZvZ. The bane buff can make early ling bane pushes even harder to counter, but who knows how will it turn out. In ZvT, with the tank buff and the ravager nerf, turtling to T3 tech with an RR army is going to be much harder.Puhsing into terrans will be imposiible with a roach ravager combo, as they are both armored and will be shred by tanks (tanks will 2 shot ravagers!). And Ultras won't be that powerful lategame anymore. Moreover, the cyclone may also turn into a roach ravager counter, which will make it impossible turtiling with those to get the T3 tech. Its hard now, and will be impossible with the tank buff. Terran will lose its ability to harass with tankivacs, but it seems like the mech route will be much more viable then bio for terran in this match-up (reactored buffed cyclones will make cyclone helion openers viable). Something which will bring back the viper to the game (blinding cloud will counter tanks again) as well as abducting those costly units (like thors libs, and so on). And the hydra and bane buffs will make them as the preffered tech paths rather then the roach ravager in the match-up (banes vs bio, hydra vs mech) which can also make the lurker as unit to go for in this matchup. The SH is already used by some grandmasters vs mech terrans, and with its buffs (which will be certainly reduced), it can also be seen in the math up as terrans will probably prefer (or at least consider) the mech tech choice. In other words, in my opinion it will break compleltey the current meta where terran is very powerful in the mid game and the minute zerg gets to the late game terrans must find their way securing their 4th, 5th, and so on. I'm a diamond zerg player who plays the RR into ultras style a lot, so I do know what its weaknesses are, all of which are addressed with the buffed terran units and the nerfed ravager. In ZvP it seems like the hydra and bane buffs with the ravager nerf will shift the meta. Any choice the zerg makes the toss will have an answer to and vice versa. Tempests in low numbers will be definitely something to go for in the late game, which will again make vipers an interesting unit to go for zerg. With the infestor buffs (as the SH ones, I don't see all of them passing the test) we can see this unit in this match-up. Currently, ZvP is one of the most interesting math-ups. Protoss have different tech routes to go for, while zerg can adjust accordingly, and each race can force different endings to the game. Choosing one tech path for the T3 units is risky while forced, as each T3 unit has good counter (for both races), so I don't have any problems with making it even more fun and forcing the zerg being more adaptive. It was my worst math-up a month ago, but I'm having fun with it now, as there are so many ways to play it. My terran and prottoss are gold like, so I can't speak for the other 3 match ups.
I didn't meant that the changes wouldn't change metas/gameplay, i'm sure they will and i'm glad.
I meant that since november 2015 every single TvP has been about liberators killing every protoss ground unit while bio had to kill every stalker. Every TvZ was about zerg rushing T3 while terran tried to kill them with very agressive bio play. And so on.
Right now extremely powerfull units in the game dictates the way MU are played. Ultras are so strong against bio? Zerg rushes T3. Liberators are so strong against protoss? Let's watch polt going for silly masses of liberators in TvP.
Now, tanks will be much better against ultras, so terran who play bio will be able to transition out smoothly into the late game. Mutas won't be countered so hard by liberators, so LBM might be back as a standard style. Cyclones and tanks may allow terran to go mech in most matchups. I'm talking about terran in particular because bio + liberators or bio + tankivac in every single MU was boring, and I'm glad mech play will be a viable route now.
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On August 15 2016 23:18 opisska wrote:
However the opening post is unclear on the exact realizoation: is there already a PTR or something? Or is it just planned?
There will be a balance test map on Tuesday
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Interesting and intense changes!
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No more tank pickup?
LETS GOOOOO
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On August 16 2016 00:10 Knatterking wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 23:18 opisska wrote:
However the opening post is unclear on the exact realizoation: is there already a PTR or something? Or is it just planned? There will be a balance test map on Tuesday
aka tomorrow, so get hype!
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EPT
