EPT
LotV Design Changes announced - Page 16
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 15 2016 10:28 Fran_ wrote: Wow a new game. I can't wait to defend baneling busts over baneling busts over baneling busts. Looks like we'll be able to go cyclone against Ultras? They'll only do 1 damage to fully upgraded Ultras won't they? | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
Blink is powerful but if it wasn't in the game Stalkers would never be built ever. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On August 15 2016 09:03 Teoita wrote: As protoss i feel like we're losing a lot of our midgame power (particularly blink stalkers seem to suck ass vs terran and will be considerably worse vs hydra/bane), but gaining some lategame power between blink dts and carriers, so meh. Not enthusastic because i feel encouraged to turtle more and i personally prefer the more gateway-heavy styles. The tempest change mostly means we will make a handful of them for sieging and to snipe liberators/broods, then go carriers i think. This is very similar to an expansion release, but with fewer changes. It won't be nearly as dramatic as you think, but yes, there will certainly be some imbalances at first and that's fine Basicly I am just scared this is a final blow to finish SC2 off. LoTV was not a new HOTS. It did not give nearly the same boost in percieved gameplay and viewercount. I do not believe the state of the game is ready for a long periode of messy imbalance. That being said, I don't think SC2 will be an E-sports in 5 years either way, so DK and team has to do something, if they want it to be. And I guess they think that big changes are the answer. But I think the game is too complicated for a big audience. It's for elitist nerds, and we are too few to keep it alive for 20 years. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On August 15 2016 09:01 Mozdk wrote: Okay. I haven't really paid attention to this game much for the last 6 months but: This is likely too many changes at once, and it will be very unbalanced. It will bring ppl back, but it will take 6-12 months to get reasonable balance. Many pros will leave the weakest race. Casual players will leave the weakest race. This is being in a hole and digging futher. Even though these changes can be good in the long run, it is way too much at this time. You cannot do this where the game is now. I am not saying this is 100% sure to happen, but I find it far more likely than any other scenario. I don't like this reasoning, ever, at all. The reason it's taken this long to even get these changes is because the SC2 team has been too focused on balance, ignoring all the good design they trampled on to get to their 50/50 winrates - see Protoss as a race. The attitude that things like the Mothership Core are fine because the winrates are okay is what's driven me more mad than anything else about this game. We need more breaking down and rebuilding, if this game is to have any future. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On August 15 2016 11:40 NewSunshine wrote: I don't like this reasoning, ever, at all. The reason it's taken this long to even get these changes is because the SC2 team has been too focused on balance, ignoring all the good design they trampled on to get to their 50/50 winrates - see Protoss as a race. The attitude that things like the Mothership Core are fine because the winrates are okay is what's driven me more mad than anything else about this game. We need more breaking down and rebuilding, if this game is to have any future. I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Balance has never been the issue for me and its been frustrating to watch the focus on that 50/50 concept when I see glaring design issues that I feel should be addressed. Not that I have any real answers, but that's just been my experience of watching SC2 development over the past 5 years. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
This is essentially a giant list of changes the community has been suggesting since forever? | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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ZerglingSoup
United States346 Posts
I'm not convinced that we need more common swarm hosts anyway. I'd be more in favor of somehow making an individual SH a little more effective at harassing, so that players can try to gain an econ advantage with 1 or 2 of them. Maybe locusts could fire something like reaper grenades that would scatter workers and eventually kill them if they aren't dealt with. | ||
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vexon837
1 Post
And here I was thinking about switching to zerg. #zeratullives | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
Meanwhile, in ZvT it seems like the tank change and the ravager nerf will make the roach ravager combo used for defensive purposes only (tanks can't be brought that early in the game to the zerg territory, so it can be used defensively, but a zerg cannot engage with it into these tanks), and with the bane buff and the lib nerf muta ling bane will be seen more often then the roach ravager composition. May be the hydra buff will make hydras used more often in this match-up, as even though hydras can't do much vs marines, they do very well vs mech play, which seem to be something terrans will go for in this matchup (it will prepare them much better for the Ultralisk end game). Having hydras in the match-up, can make the way for lurkers there as well, which will be a nice turnover to the current meta - terran go mech and the zerg's answer is going for ling hydra lurker viper, with a BL transition in mind. From the terran point of view, the current option of the bio play may seem less viable without the tankivacs, so may be early bio pressure into mech will be the way to go. But only time will tell... ZvP - I guess the hydra and the bane buffs will force prottoss players either tech faster, or be more aggressive in the early to mid game, as hydra bane ling combo (or simply ling bane into hive) may turn being more viable if the zerg will be allowed to be as greedy as it is in the current meta. Creep spreading will be much more useful with the hydra upgrade (I spread creep like a mad man in ZvT, but don't care that much about it in ZvP). Although the lurker transition may turn being harder with the new tempests, which will counter both transitions, lurkers and BLs but I guess the toss wouldn't be able to mass them as vipers will be able abducting them into hydras. Unlike most of the thread here, I like the DT change, even though I'm a zerg player. I get to see DTs either at the mid game (harass or 2 base all-in), or when the toss is lost. This DT upgrade can make the DT as a late game unit, which can be fun, less archons but being forced into a more a mobile army and some detection rather then engaging the protoss without taking too much damage from its deathball. ZvZ - is the matchup I don't really like to play, and since the ling bane opener determines a lot regarding how will it proceed (at least at the diamond level where I play), I guess the bane buff will make ling bane pushes harder to deal with (queens and spines will have a harder time blowing up the coming banes), but as the other matchups, time will tell. Regarding the infestor, I guess we'll see it more often, and while casting spells while burrowed is something which may turn being overpowered, the deep tunnel ability will probably pass the test. Unlike what many said here, I don't see it as an offensive ability, as getting infestors and waiting for them having enough energy to get to the other side of the map, cast some spells (be it fungal or infeted terrans) and hoping they come back, is a huge risk as all this waiting time will probably be a time when the zerg is very vulnerable mid game aggression, and these infestors will probably be lost at the enemy territory (going back and forth with these infestors meaning 200 energy must be saved, its very late into the game, while only a single fungal per infestor or 4 infested terrans per infestor can be cast). On the other hand, having the ability to save up the infestors after trading some army by getting them back to the base using this ability can make the infestor as a unit one should go for. There are some changes to units which I rarely see, and I don't know how will these changes affect them. We'll see the dynamic in the coming months. | ||
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scoo2r
Canada91 Posts
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WidowMineHero
New Zealand143 Posts
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
It's their idea how to make SC2 fresh every year while dodge drastic changes in the middle of WCS Season.... which is FINE since we cant just ban race or unit like in MOBA.... Also they even bring ladder to balance test map in the few weeks... so if you gonna play it... blizzard will have more data to work with.... At last... some of those will not make it to the game for sure.. so PLEASE.... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17939 Posts
On August 15 2016 12:20 seemsgood wrote: My farovrite change is reduce =strength of air units and buff ground units to let players chose another option beside massing air. Blizzard has been chipping away at air, improving ground,improving ground-to-air attacks over the past 6 months.. and i'm glad they've been doing that. its tough for them to do more than just "chip away" in the middle of a competitive season. i'm glad to see Blizzard experiment with big changes during the "off season". | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On August 15 2016 13:18 TheWinks wrote: Ultra armor still needs to be nerfed. If they're unwilling to do it on live servers, this is the perfect time to touch the ultra. They will address Adept,ultralisk,liberator,warp prism in next feedback. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
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FoxShine
United States156 Posts
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ShamanElemental1
56 Posts
All changes are good with the exception of the banshee, we know this from beta, banshee that are faster then mutas and phoenix is a really horrible idea. Zerg. The faster pace of LotV makes a unit that attacks once 60 sec horrible, SH need a redesign, lowering the price won't help. Hydralisk are units that are to costly with very little HP. While the buffs makes the unit better... you won't see it as a core unit ever, it needs to go back to the old BW former. Cheap, effective and 1 supply Ravages change is horrible, it's the only unit that prevents mass stalkers in ZvP because stalkers are very bad vs them. Also the unit needso to COUNTER MECH otherwise Zerg will have to turtle until Vipers. REMEMBER there will be no ground unit that counters Tanks from Zerg. All other changes are very good or okay on the Zerg side. Protoss. The Tempest ability needs to be changed, it can be done by making deal damage to mechanical units to prevent dumb harassment. Blink DT is a horrible idea and no it doesn't need explanation The other changes are solid for Protoss | ||
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