Please tell me this is a joke... All I'm seeing is that Terran and Zerg are getting buffs, Protoss getting nerfed with Zealot speed being the only 'buff'.

IMPrime

United States715 Posts

August 15 2016 00:01 GMT

#283

On August 15 2016 08:52 MoonyD wrote:
Please tell me this is a joke... All I'm seeing is that Terran and Zerg are getting buffs, Protoss getting nerfed with Zealot speed being the only 'buff'.

Some zerg buffs are over the top (particularly hydra and infestor casting fungal while burrowed) but terran is getting big nerfs overall (tank is a nerf overall, liberator is a notable nerf for tvz), and the buffs are given to units who are barely seeing any use at all (cyclone, thor, raven, BC, banshee) or is only a small buff (viking).

Tempest isn't even a drastic nerf, if at all. More supply was necessary but at least they now have an AoE spell. In fact they would have to nerf this new spell because it's probably too good. An AoE spell that lasts 32 seconds is pretty stupid.

Mozdk

Denmark6989 Posts

August 15 2016 00:01 GMT

#284

Okay. I haven't really paid attention to this game much for the last 6 months but:

This is likely too many changes at once, and it will be very unbalanced. It will bring ppl back, but it will take 6-12 months to get reasonable balance. Many pros will leave the weakest race. Casual players will leave the weakest race.

This is being in a hole and digging futher. Even though these changes can be good in the long run, it is way too much at this time. You cannot do this where the game is now.

I am not saying this is 100% sure to happen, but I find it far more likely than any other scenario.

Ramiz1989

12124 Posts

August 15 2016 00:02 GMT

#285

On August 15 2016 08:52 MoonyD wrote:
Please tell me this is a joke... All I'm seeing is that Terran and Zerg are getting buffs, Protoss getting nerfed with Zealot speed being the only 'buff'.

Yeah, that DT blink is doing nothing at all. Tempest while nerfed also got new ability and you can't call it a nerf just yet because you don't know how useful that ability will be.

Maybe they didn't get as much buffs as other factions but they certainly didn't get just nerfs...

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

August 15 2016 00:03 GMT

#286

As protoss i feel like we're losing a lot of our midgame power (particularly blink stalkers seem to suck ass vs terran and will be considerably worse vs hydra/bane), but gaining some lategame power between blink dts and carriers, so meh. Not enthusastic because i feel encouraged to turtle more and i personally prefer the more gateway-heavy styles.

The tempest change mostly means we will make a handful of them for sieging and to snipe liberators/broods, then go carriers i think.

On August 15 2016 09:01 Mozdk wrote:
Okay. I haven't really paid attention to this game much for the last 6 months but:

This is likely too many changes at once, and it will be very unbalanced. It will bring ppl back, but it will take 6-12 months to get reasonable balance. Many pros will leave the weakest race. Casual players will leave the weakest race.

This is being in a hole and digging futher. Even though these changes can be good in the long run, it is way too much at this time. You cannot do this where the game is now.

I am not saying this is 100% sure to happen, but I find it far more likely than any other scenario.

This is very similar to an expansion release, but with fewer changes. It won't be nearly as dramatic as you think, but yes, there will certainly be some imbalances at first and that's fine

StarscreamG1

Portugal1653 Posts

August 15 2016 00:04 GMT

#287

Now reduce Adepts hitpoints and replace the Thor by the Goliath, and this would be a great patch.

Siegetank_Dieter

45 Posts

August 15 2016 00:05 GMT

#288

I like siegetanks.

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

August 15 2016 00:07 GMT

#289

i think p's best counter to cyclones might be guardian shield. very interesting

BelialSC2

38 Posts

August 15 2016 00:09 GMT

#290

Awesome stuff, looks like they're trying to make the game more dynamic by buffing underused units and nerfing those that cause stale play. Seems less like nerfs or buffs and more like just making the game more fun!

I definitely hate roach play in general and ravagers even more, I basically never make a roach warren anymore except in ZvP to hold early gate pressure. So these changes are definitely great for my style of play.

Justinian

United Kingdom158 Posts

August 15 2016 00:24 GMT

#291

Mech turtling will be far too strong, but I doubt the seige tank buff will make it into the game. It may be a novelty now, but in the long run the game would become boring to watch and frustrating to play.

I don't understand the baneling buff, it seems like it would negate a lot of marine micro which is not really what anyone wants.

I'm disappointed not to see some sort of adept nerf, they're too prevalent and not very fun to watch.

These are all design-oriented comments by the way - I'm not interested in balance. Everything will be balanced out in the end as it always is.

I do like that they're willing to try out some sweeping changes, and the other ones look more promising to me. We'll just have to wait and see how the test map plays out.

ETisME

12702 Posts

August 15 2016 00:53 GMT

#292

With all these changes, I think stalker deserves a buff in its general stats but a nerf to blink to compensate
And muta deserves a small nerf

Charoisaur

Germany16062 Posts

August 15 2016 00:56 GMT

#293

Cyclone buff: mech is designed to have low-mobility and high firepower. Having a strong mobile mech unit would just turn mech into bio 2.0. -0/10
Tankivac removal: great change but 70 damage vs armored is probably too much. 60 sounds more reasonable. -8/10
Liberator nerf: Should just be implemented now. -10/10
Banshee buff: Don't really like it but if they can find a good number for their speed it might be ok. -4/10
Viking buff: don't really care
BC buff: Excellent change. Terran might have a lategame unit now. -10/10
Raven buff: auto-turrets are already almost broken in lategame tvt. Free units killing everything is bad. -0/10

Tempest: Every nerf to it is good but they should just be removed from the game and voids/carriers buffed to compensate as tempests are a horribly designed unit. -5/10
Zealot buff: ya it's fine. not a big deal probably. -7/10
Carrier change: good. release interceptor is pretty broken. -10/10
Dt buff: Lol -0/10

Swarm host buff: SHs should be removed as they are terribly designed. If they are cheap enough to be useful they will feel totally unfair as there is no counterplay to them except killing the opponent as long as they are vulnerable.
Ravager nerf: Good -10/10
Hydra buff: speed buff is fine range buff will completely break zvp. 6/10
baneling buff: Terrible. Will make bio unusable in zvt. -0/10
Infestor buff: 10/10 for the laugh. Good joke.
broodlord nerf: extra range should never have been in the game. Air units dominating ground units leads to bad gameplay -10/10

Other things that should be adressed:
-Ultra armor -1
-lib range upgrade removed

ihatevideogames

570 Posts

August 15 2016 00:57 GMT

#294

Aside from what will end up actually going into the game, I can't help but worry about the future of the game when the balance team comes out and shows these potential changes to the community.
Think about it, Disruption Spheres that supossedly counter the new tank, but have a million other broken uses, blink DTs(!!!), Raven super-turret that would destroy TvT right as the removal of tankivac fixed it, globally teleporting perma-burrow infestors.

Now, obviously, these things can't go into the game in their current form but it says something about the balance team that they said 'Ok, these changes seem fine, let's show them'.

Siegetank_Dieter

45 Posts

August 15 2016 00:58 GMT

#295

turtle mech won't be a viable strategy. protoss and zerg lategame will still be strong and the lotv economy forces you to push out. currently it's literally impossible for mech to really do much because it's so weak in low numbers and heavily underpowered in the lategame. see the problem ? you're forced to max out but until you reach that point, you're basically already dead.

the mech buffs will help mech to actually move out and do something.

p68

100 Posts

August 15 2016 01:11 GMT

#296

They actually listened about Viking ground damage! :D

lichter

1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts

August 15 2016 01:22 GMT

#297

For those doubting this, we discussed all or most of these at the summit. So they do plan on doing this. There will be changes of course, but their intention is pretty clear. Shake things up.

Fran_

United States1024 Posts

August 15 2016 01:28 GMT

#298

Wow a new game. I can't wait to defend baneling busts over baneling busts over baneling busts. Looks like we'll be able to go cyclone against Ultras?

Vindicare605

United States16121 Posts

August 15 2016 01:33 GMT

#299

Ok so obviously this is a huge number of HUGE changes, so it's literally impossible to really balance whine about them until we see them next to each other (seriously Burrow casting Infestors? Tempest Spheres? 70 damage tanks?)

But I can say for certain that I am absolutely THRILLED that they are making the attempt to make changes this big to the game that has felt very stagnant and un fun to play since the beginning of LoTV for me.

The Terran changes in particular I am in love with, and how can any Terran not be? Bio has been the only viable unit style for the entirety of LoTV up till now, this MIGHT change that. How can you not love it?

Rollora

2450 Posts

August 15 2016 01:38 GMT

#300

On August 15 2016 08:09 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Keep in mind the DT upgrade takes as long to finish as stim if it's not chronoed. That has to be some real slow cheese.

True that but I hate hidden units and the players that just rely on winning by surprising, not actually having the mechanics to it. And this change would encourage them to further use DTs