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Call to Action: June 28 Balance Testing - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
118 CommentsPost a Reply
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Thinh123456
Profile Joined July 2015
70 Posts
June 29 2016 04:30 GMT
#41
In a 1v1 situation vs Queen, Banshee is the survivor with very low health left that can take 2-3 more Queen's shots (i don't remember correctly). I'm afraid buff Queen range ATA like this will significantly nerf the Banshee play in early game. For Phoenix play, i think this is a slight nerf compared to Banshee play, and it can be accepted by Protoss.

Decrease rooting time of spore crawler is a much proper solution. No need to discuss much.
Scarlett`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada2385 Posts
June 29 2016 04:34 GMT
#42
On June 29 2016 08:45 Pokebunny wrote:
was hoping -1 ultra armor would be in the same patch.

i dont think a slight spore buff is enough to justify that yet
Progamer
eScaper-tsunami
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada313 Posts
June 29 2016 04:35 GMT
#43
I prefer a mild nerf to tank like requiring the siege upgrade again.
RuhRoh is my herO
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
June 29 2016 04:53 GMT
#44
you could also lower the radius in which the liberator circle is pre-nerf, which would reduce the harass potential of liberators. Admittedly that is the #1 thing that I personally cannot handle from a multitasking Terran. Drops without liberator harass are no problem (relatively), nor are straight up pushes.
ihatevideogames
Profile Joined August 2015
570 Posts
June 29 2016 05:15 GMT
#45
So they're basically making it harder for terran to 'not let them get there' instead of fixing the flawed game design. Ok.
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
June 29 2016 05:34 GMT
#46
On June 29 2016 13:34 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 08:45 Pokebunny wrote:
was hoping -1 ultra armor would be in the same patch.

i dont think a slight spore buff is enough to justify that yet

Queen buff is though.
Infiiiniity
Profile Joined April 2015
45 Posts
June 29 2016 05:50 GMT
#47
On June 29 2016 13:35 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
I prefer a mild nerf to tank like requiring the siege upgrade again.


Terrans would just die to roach ravager allins then. I doubt thats gonna happen.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6329 Posts
June 29 2016 06:05 GMT
#48
Keep the root time, queen range is a devastating mistake.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
wjat
Profile Joined August 2015
385 Posts
June 29 2016 06:10 GMT
#49
Am I the only one noticing that protoss is so much advantaged in the PvT match up? and terran is having such an easy time vs zerg? I guess those changes will help PvZ... more balance change would be needed...
I wasbanned fromthis
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
113 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-29 06:41:57
June 29 2016 06:31 GMT
#50
What they're doing is releasing a balance test map...
What are the results they are looking for with this change? (DO WE ALL KNOW?) fix an entire game?
I think being a balance test map it's clearly obvious what they are looking taking metrics on at the moment without overdoing the input and variability concern of changing too much at once and crucifying other units because of a variable they didnt account for. so understanding the dynamics of such great changes skews the real potential of each individual change.

Assuming anyone of us had this job to balance. Whatever it is, are you going to change 8 ingredients of the whole makeup of the pie(cake, food dish), and then revert back to old reciepe when customers say it's tastes awful. What one ingredient didnt they like exactly and did the cherries sour the maple sauce too much? are you going to suck back a bunch of surgar to figure this out (some raised your hands; put them down). Are you going to waste time making 8changes into a patch release to revert back and to come full circle and staggeringly climb back up that list of changes. In this fashion to begin with, your grandchildren would beable to see a greater lineage of reciepe changes than the past 500years of family lineage displayed on a wall.
It would have saved time and headache to out set more reasoning to why they do things in baby steps, but can't they tell kids and half-way intellegent people this. baby steps dont make my baseline flux hardenough i dont know what happiness is, I cant actually play because im burned out, but i know why im burned out it's these ingame problems.. not my health, mentality, social ecosystem. No they basically insist in keeping it polite & silent; talk all you want we want your feedback it looks better than seeing stale in game numbers.
Maybe not every change is great, but reverting back to old versions isnt nessearily something blizzard does every release, so that is good... that you don't get a patch, and a week later reverted to old version; TOO many people comlained, needed to.
instead of being 3-5years older still not getting on with a professional life, we're concerning our brief time as humans on, these micro issues. It's amazing aint it, to see how much hyperbole goes on over something that is litterally taking you away from mechanically playing games and improving -regardless of your emotional state.. It's too hard to play hard, so whining harder to make it easier, is -easier than mechanically and intelligently baring the storm, that' is Blizzard's undertaking of evolving online products.

For the fancy of hopes and dreams, I'd wish the value people put in there time & posts improve more than the game itself. we're the humans.
Why are the amateurs improving this game without making changes. play the game, make the data,
(If you've payed attention to SC buzz, Its said that SC is so hard to play perfectly, and part of the game is to mitigate harrassment and maintain perfect play, and it's in the winners favor having executed harassment accurately and precisely, as well to maintain perfect allround play, including recognizing the opponents mistakes and where his advtanges have left him. assuming this is clear to everyone, everyone should be aware that noone plays perfect and so the value to these changes dont actually set out a clear answer. 2second root buff could mean zergs dont root the spore till they are aware of the lib-zone location... Or whatever the change. -armor ultars could mean some terrans can get away with MMM micro again and yet some can banshee again.. All this talk lol... I really would hope others take less passion in displaying the same uncontent disposition for xYears now (wol, hots, lotv... when did your feelings matter to this board).

Lets rule out cases of definitive devotion to cases for what is worth this
- Eco mod change LOTV beta. Respect.
- Sholip's analyses. Well met.
- master list of hackers and cheaters. Thats a useful tool i've used after noticing people on that list, i've got some funny winning replays saved, thank you for that.
(honour list) -streamers
- day9 's dailys, PiG's startup
- smaller casting streams hosting variety of tournies and exposing new talent.
- TotalBiscuit & crew.
- ect, you know who you are.

SC is a game that's in the hands of professionals, fix yourself; ignore your emotions, if you're fatigued from playing something (broken) and stressing you, then dont use down time from practicing to express your opinions in a venue consuming itself with hyperbole. If you dont think you need fixing, enjoy yourself for once for being absolutely perfect, and appreciate all these constructive additions to a public forum.
No one will ever play a version of this game that is in their best interest and everyone Else's, any idea of ideal state of the game is selfish delusion. Blizzard is making painfully slow changes, but mostly always forward and not reverting, and you dont feel it, but you're a bit happier not going back and forth between versions and unit values, meanwhile your rhetoric on discussion boards is at it's best with so many years of practice.
pieroog
Profile Joined June 2010
Poland146 Posts
June 29 2016 06:37 GMT
#51
I really hoped for reducing Liberator's range by one as proposed ages ago, rather than a buff to a minerals-only-ranged-healer.
Glorfindel!
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1815 Posts
June 29 2016 06:40 GMT
#52
On June 29 2016 13:35 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
I prefer a mild nerf to tank like requiring the siege upgrade again.


How would T ever hold early Ravager attacks then?
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/598681/1/Glorfindel/ladder/161337#current-rank
quickndirty
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany1 Post
June 29 2016 08:32 GMT
#53
I don't understand them.
Everyone, even Terrans, say that reducing the Liberator range is the way to go, if Liberator are the problem in ZvT. And Blizzard is buffind queens and spores -.-
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
June 29 2016 08:57 GMT
#54
On June 29 2016 15:31 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
What they're doing is releasing a balance test map...
What are the results they are looking for with this change? (DO WE ALL KNOW?) fix an entire game?
I think being a balance test map it's clearly obvious what they are looking taking metrics on at the moment without overdoing the input and variability concern of changing too much at once and crucifying other units because of a variable they didnt account for. so understanding the dynamics of such great changes skews the real potential of each individual change.

Assuming anyone of us had this job to balance. Whatever it is, are you going to change 8 ingredients of the whole makeup of the pie(cake, food dish), and then revert back to old reciepe when customers say it's tastes awful. What one ingredient didnt they like exactly and did the cherries sour the maple sauce too much? are you going to suck back a bunch of surgar to figure this out (some raised your hands; put them down). Are you going to waste time making 8changes into a patch release to revert back and to come full circle and staggeringly climb back up that list of changes. In this fashion to begin with, your grandchildren would beable to see a greater lineage of reciepe changes than the past 500years of family lineage displayed on a wall.
It would have saved time and headache to out set more reasoning to why they do things in baby steps, but can't they tell kids and half-way intellegent people this. baby steps dont make my baseline flux hardenough i dont know what happiness is, I cant actually play because im burned out, but i know why im burned out it's these ingame problems.. not my health, mentality, social ecosystem. No they basically insist in keeping it polite & silent; talk all you want we want your feedback it looks better than seeing stale in game numbers.
Maybe not every change is great, but reverting back to old versions isnt nessearily something blizzard does every release, so that is good... that you don't get a patch, and a week later reverted to old version; TOO many people comlained, needed to.
instead of being 3-5years older still not getting on with a professional life, we're concerning our brief time as humans on, these micro issues. It's amazing aint it, to see how much hyperbole goes on over something that is litterally taking you away from mechanically playing games and improving -regardless of your emotional state.. It's too hard to play hard, so whining harder to make it easier, is -easier than mechanically and intelligently baring the storm, that' is Blizzard's undertaking of evolving online products.

For the fancy of hopes and dreams, I'd wish the value people put in there time & posts improve more than the game itself. we're the humans.
Why are the amateurs improving this game without making changes. play the game, make the data,
(If you've payed attention to SC buzz, Its said that SC is so hard to play perfectly, and part of the game is to mitigate harrassment and maintain perfect play, and it's in the winners favor having executed harassment accurately and precisely, as well to maintain perfect allround play, including recognizing the opponents mistakes and where his advtanges have left him. assuming this is clear to everyone, everyone should be aware that noone plays perfect and so the value to these changes dont actually set out a clear answer. 2second root buff could mean zergs dont root the spore till they are aware of the lib-zone location... Or whatever the change. -armor ultars could mean some terrans can get away with MMM micro again and yet some can banshee again.. All this talk lol... I really would hope others take less passion in displaying the same uncontent disposition for xYears now (wol, hots, lotv... when did your feelings matter to this board).

Lets rule out cases of definitive devotion to cases for what is worth this
- Eco mod change LOTV beta. Respect.
- Sholip's analyses. Well met.
- master list of hackers and cheaters. Thats a useful tool i've used after noticing people on that list, i've got some funny winning replays saved, thank you for that.
(honour list) -streamers
- day9 's dailys, PiG's startup
- smaller casting streams hosting variety of tournies and exposing new talent.
- TotalBiscuit & crew.
- ect, you know who you are.

SC is a game that's in the hands of professionals, fix yourself; ignore your emotions, if you're fatigued from playing something (broken) and stressing you, then dont use down time from practicing to express your opinions in a venue consuming itself with hyperbole. If you dont think you need fixing, enjoy yourself for once for being absolutely perfect, and appreciate all these constructive additions to a public forum.
No one will ever play a version of this game that is in their best interest and everyone Else's, any idea of ideal state of the game is selfish delusion. Blizzard is making painfully slow changes, but mostly always forward and not reverting, and you dont feel it, but you're a bit happier not going back and forth between versions and unit values, meanwhile your rhetoric on discussion boards is at it's best with so many years of practice.


Just imagining you sitting in 1 room with Avilo discussing the state of SC2 and the approach Blizzard is taking. Made my day, haha, thanks for that. :D
summerloud
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria1201 Posts
June 29 2016 09:02 GMT
#55
On June 29 2016 07:44 xTJx wrote:
Someone please make a competitive RTS...


go try heptacraft

at least its patched regularly and DK has no part in it

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/508343-sc2-mod-heptacraft-release-trailer
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 29 2016 09:13 GMT
#56
I'm against any queen anti air buff now that Snute has showcased this super disgusting mass queen ZvT.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
zerge
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany162 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-29 09:49:03
June 29 2016 09:39 GMT
#57
On June 29 2016 07:21 Vanadiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:59 Beelzebub1 wrote:
I'm not understanding everyone's hesitance or disapproval, Zerg anti air sucks and this is a pretty small way to boost strictly anti air power without turning the Hydralisk OP vs. Stargate openers especially. I've never understood why all these years later every race has reliable ways to not die to aerial units and Zerg really doesn't.

A big yes, Phoenix and Liberators needs to be a little more intimidated by packs of Queens then they currently are. Sky units in general are just strong as hell in LOTV, nothing wrong with giving more ways to counter it.



Because it's a buff that's telling you to go full turtle defensive. Yes, Zerg AA needs a buff, but not like this. Blizzard is just telling Zerg to turtle with queen spore ravager until T3 units, instead of promoting a more agressive (hydra based comp) or mobile (ling muta).


I agree, in hots they buff mutas to deal with boosted medivacs but then protoss needs super powerful phoenix to deal with them and terran can't deal with mass muta in the lategame. So now liberators make mutas almost uselss so zerg has nothing to deal with drops. Best thing would be a nerf to air units overall so ground units can deal with them instead of air units countering each other. But the mantra is buff instead of nerf because of reasons ... so i guess the next best thing is buffing hydralisks anti-air like you said.

As a zerg i rather wait for a better solution than have the queen buffed it might balance the game out but i fear that zerg is becoming more and more a defensive race.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3380 Posts
June 29 2016 10:16 GMT
#58
On June 29 2016 14:50 Infiiiniity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 13:35 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
I prefer a mild nerf to tank like requiring the siege upgrade again.


Terrans would just die to roach ravager allins then. I doubt thats gonna happen.

I really don't think there's such a thin line between Terran dying to every Roach Ravager allin and the allin never happening.
Not that I agree with the other guy.

I think it would be very nice, if they'd fix Liberator range so that there is no such thing as an unkillable position, with only ground units/structures to deal with it. So just for that I also want to get rid of the Liberator upgrade, but that will have incredible consequences for the late game. Would probably require a Tempest change at the very least.

I think a feature that could help Terrans in the late game would be to make Ghosts be able to use Snipe inside Bunkers. This would help Terran in split map situations or key points to fortify vs Ultralisks and the likes. It would be a cool counter to Fungal Growth and Abduct.
It could resurrect the Gretorp upgrades and could even help bridge the gap between the transition from Bio -> Mech or vice versa.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
atrox_
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1710 Posts
June 29 2016 10:29 GMT
#59
do they not remember what happened last time queen range was buffed no thank you
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
June 29 2016 10:39 GMT
#60
Make overlords air pathing blockers. This gives Zerg a strategical way to counter air units :D
Neosteel Enthusiast
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