• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:53
CEST 02:53
KST 09:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder0EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time EWC 2025 - Replay Pack Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 629 users

Call to Action: June 28 Balance Testing - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
118 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Hularuns
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom37 Posts
June 29 2016 15:55 GMT
#81
Adept timings in zvp have been putting me off playing because theyr'e the new immortal/sentry all in. But worse
k
Solstice245
Profile Joined September 2015
United States145 Posts
June 29 2016 15:55 GMT
#82
On June 29 2016 18:02 summerloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 07:44 xTJx wrote:
Someone please make a competitive RTS...


go try heptacraft

at least its patched regularly and DK has no part in it

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/508343-sc2-mod-heptacraft-release-trailer


The shameless advertising. :D
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-29 16:41:18
June 29 2016 16:40 GMT
#83
On June 30 2016 00:39 TheWinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 20:02 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i just want the queen range buff=BL infestor perception to die off already, it's a really bad way to look at things. maximum army end-game is very different from early game and mid-game ...

The queen buff was literally the change that ushered in infestor/blord. It wasn't some coincidence that people erroneously associate with it. Being able to defend with queens with a smaller number of other units or even without investing in other units means a larger economy faster so that the late game is more accessible earlier. Any buff that strengthens the zerg midgame will have this effect, but the concern around the queen's strength is valid and grounded in the history of the game. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

very convenietly skipping the next paragraph of Snute's post which talks about how queen range buff and BL/infestor weren't connected design wise.
the point that you seem to be missing is that you can buff zerg early game and nerf their late game
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Clazziquai10
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore1949 Posts
June 29 2016 17:15 GMT
#84
well done david kim *slow clap* Kappa

User was temp banned for this post.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
June 29 2016 17:35 GMT
#85
What is it with this obsession of the Queen and Spore crawler. So many units they could tweak and its back this. At least bunker build time hasnt been nerfed
TheWildShooter
Profile Joined September 2011
79 Posts
June 29 2016 18:37 GMT
#86
Great changes. Now a-moving other races as zerg will be even easier. I am seriously thinking about switching to zerg or abandoning SC2 completely.
oGsMC <3
RaFox17
Profile Joined May 2013
Finland4581 Posts
June 29 2016 18:51 GMT
#87
On June 30 2016 03:37 TheWildShooter wrote:
Great changes. Now a-moving other races as zerg will be even easier. I am seriously thinking about switching to zerg or abandoning SC2 completely.

You are going to a-move with queens? Thats gonna take some time. I guess you can create a creep high-way with overlords or queens. Are you gonna use spores also? That takes some micro but i guess it´s still ok.. You should switch to Zerg as it is the race to be.
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
June 29 2016 18:56 GMT
#88
On June 30 2016 01:40 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2016 00:39 TheWinks wrote:
On June 29 2016 20:02 Liquid`Snute wrote:
i just want the queen range buff=BL infestor perception to die off already, it's a really bad way to look at things. maximum army end-game is very different from early game and mid-game ...

The queen buff was literally the change that ushered in infestor/blord. It wasn't some coincidence that people erroneously associate with it. Being able to defend with queens with a smaller number of other units or even without investing in other units means a larger economy faster so that the late game is more accessible earlier. Any buff that strengthens the zerg midgame will have this effect, but the concern around the queen's strength is valid and grounded in the history of the game. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

very convenietly skipping the next paragraph of Snute's post which talks about how queen range buff and BL/infestor weren't connected design wise.
the point that you seem to be missing is that you can buff zerg early game and nerf their late game

I didn't skip anything, it just wasn't worth saying 'no, they're totally connected design-wise' when I could just use an example of how early game was connected to late game design wise. One of, if not the primary reasoning for justifying the strength 8 armor 'T3' ultras is the difficulty in successfully reaching them. Therefore ANY change to the early/mid game that increases accessibility to the ultra is in some way connected to the ultra design-wise because it weakens that justification for its strength.

Snute does not advocate a simultaneous buff to early/mid game and a late game nerf, just that if things are screwed up then they can fix that problem when they reach it. I also disagreed with that because not only do we have evidence that such compensation would be necessary, but if the balance team inadvertently makes Blord/Infestor 2: David Kim Boogaloo despite all these warning signs and the fact that it was in fact also a queen buff in Wings that did immeasurable harm to the game, their reputation may never recover without a shakeup.
Cluster__
Profile Joined September 2013
United States328 Posts
June 29 2016 19:03 GMT
#89
While I like the idea of a queen range buff, it'll be very strong for queen, it seems pretty aggressive. Queens are already pretty good.
Liquid`Snute, AcerScarlett, ROOTCatZ, MC, Maru, Soulkey, Losira
Dunmer
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom568 Posts
June 29 2016 19:05 GMT
#90
I feel queen buff affects quite a few things as well as banshees which are pretty much a dead unit in the game right now. Better to focus on liberator in ZvT(and vs mech)
All Ireland Starcraft, check us out on Facebook
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5049 Posts
June 29 2016 19:11 GMT
#91
did we learn nothing from the queen ground range increase... Buffing queens is much bigger of a deal than its surificial appearance
can i get my estro logo back pls
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3380 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-29 19:29:55
June 29 2016 19:27 GMT
#92
On June 30 2016 00:18 MiCroLiFe wrote:
zerg is to strong as it is. more queen stuff? more queen all ins whit nydus and overlord drops

User was temp banned for this post.

Dno why this user was banned. Even if statistics say Zerg is the weakest race, it's not factual. If it has something to do with his signature, or history, then pardon me.

Just looking at the new Spore Crawler root time, it just looks ridiculous and should not be in the game, though it's not the first time something that does not belong gets implemented. I think the balance team might be a bit too tunnel visioned on balance and is not considering what looks good aesthetically and the design of it. The biggest part of being a progamer is solving problems, let them be the problem solvers, you should merely provide the tools.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
June 29 2016 19:41 GMT
#93
This will for sure have an impact how big is yet to be determined still better early game AA is a much smaller change then 4 larva inject. I don't like the fact that even more utility and importance is being added to the queen but it's not a giant change. It will remain to be seen if 1) this allows Zerg to better deffend harass 2) of its a big enough deal that Zerg consistently reaches late game 3) if this will swing balance the other way. I'd say just put it on live observe closely and adjust accordingly. I'd say they should realy look into the balance test map first but there sample size is probably to small to get an adequite sense for the changes.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
Hularuns
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom37 Posts
June 29 2016 21:24 GMT
#94
This should mean that oracles have a higher chance of dying in the early game which makes them more of a costly investment. Since currently oracles are a stupidly cost efficient unit with all their utility from early through to late game.
k
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
June 29 2016 21:51 GMT
#95
The best time to make mutas viable in ZvT and they are buffing spores.
Scurvy
Profile Joined March 2012
United States117 Posts
June 30 2016 01:32 GMT
#96
Something has to be done, and this is a test people, remember a test so lets see what results happen before we jump to conclusions.
With it or on it.
Soke
Profile Joined September 2012
United States790 Posts
June 30 2016 01:47 GMT
#97
On June 30 2016 04:27 ejozl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2016 00:18 MiCroLiFe wrote:
zerg is to strong as it is. more queen stuff? more queen all ins whit nydus and overlord drops

User was temp banned for this post.

Dno why this user was banned. Even if statistics say Zerg is the weakest race, it's not factual. If it has something to do with his signature, or history, then pardon me.

Just looking at the new Spore Crawler root time, it just looks ridiculous and should not be in the game, though it's not the first time something that does not belong gets implemented. I think the balance team might be a bit too tunnel visioned on balance and is not considering what looks good aesthetically and the design of it. The biggest part of being a progamer is solving problems, let them be the problem solvers, you should merely provide the tools.


The twitch emote he used in his post is not allowed on TL forums :s
Djsoke
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1106 Posts
June 30 2016 02:15 GMT
#98
Queen buff is a terrible, game-breaking idea. spore change is a very underwhelming, but it's the lesser of 2 evils. I wish they'd let us test tier 1 hydras
SwiftCrane
Profile Joined April 2016
26 Posts
June 30 2016 07:18 GMT
#99
Really?! Instead of addressing pressing matters like parasitic bomb, tankevac, tempest 4 supply, ultra armor, ravagers, adepts, immortal damage, pylon overcharge, current state of raven, cyclone being useless, mech beng useless... they go for a queen range buff and spore root time? LOLOL It's nowhere near in the right direction, and even if it was, it wouldn;t be anywhere near enough...
SeriousLus
Profile Joined July 2012
169 Posts
June 30 2016 08:02 GMT
#100
too little too late id say but more than nothing
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 233
Ketroc 55
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 59
MaD[AoV]52
Dota 2
monkeys_forever630
League of Legends
JimRising 637
febbydoto18
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2350
fl0m2199
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King1729
hungrybox1163
AZ_Axe504
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor206
Other Games
tarik_tv20583
summit1g14931
gofns9740
ROOTCatZ253
Maynarde188
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2323
BasetradeTV6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta101
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki30
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift7840
Other Games
• Scarra2119
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
10h 7m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
WardiTV European League
1d 15h
Online Event
1d 16h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.