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I'm gonna maintain my position from few weeks ago- I find lotv already too stale..
I really dislike the way game have gone at least for a viewer. It's the same monotony of bio/lib, PICA, roach ravager in the match ups and the game is extremely slow on any forseeable changes that would change this.
At least in hots you had ling bing muta vs 4m monotony that provided better form of action. Maybe even odd mech thrown in. Now you have nurtured lbm vs terran all in before hive or boring boring roach ravager.
Tvt is a mess to watch in my opinions. Takivacs are flat out boring to watch after the initial rush of excitement when it was introduced. Tvt used to be very varied mirror but it just feels chore to watch now, with strong early game counters than before leading to same old Takivacs marine that drops tanks bypassing most position advantage
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we realized the main feedback is that Zerg is having a lot of trouble against Liberator harassment.
the issue here is that liberators kill queens, larva and drones very quickly. Instead of making harrassment less viable you could adress the issue by preventing liberators from killing larva and reducing the burrow time of spores. It would also help to increase the build time of the liberator-rangeupgrade by another 30 seconds ingame time so you can have mutas out in time.
But in my opinion the ZvT matchup right know lacks one thing most of all:
Zerg can't attack without beeing super all in. Flying siegetanks, reapers and liberators make early game defence almost unbreakable. If terran doesn't have to respect zerg all ins they can get more abusive with their own harrassment leading to strong gamble builds (liberator range, banshee/hellbat timings...)
If the only viable strategy for zerg is: surrviving till ultras are out to have a super strong timewindow to go for the kill then the game feels monoton and stupid.
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On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill
Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest.
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On June 19 2016 04:23 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest.
Not saying anything about which race is the "hardest" but your argument has a few holes in it. I can say that zerg is the hardest race because they are doing worst at the top korean level. Terran is the hardest because non-koran terrans are not doing that well etc.
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On June 19 2016 04:52 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 04:23 Aiobhill wrote:On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest. Not saying anything about which race is the "hardest" but your argument has a few holes in it. I can say that zerg is the hardest race because they are doing worst at the top korean level. Terran is the hardest because non-koran terrans are not doing that well etc.
objectively what Nerchio says is pointless and just adds fuel to the whine fire. I would agree that P is definitely not the hardest race to play -it may even be the easiest- but saying that playing P requires no skill is just stupid -and plain false.
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Norway839 Posts
maybe it's time to consider more options in regards to the unit movement speeds. all movement speeds in the game are very linear/static or just flat out high. liberator is extremely fast compared to its siege-y role, and it accelerates very quickly so it's hard to punish a run-away lib and they reposition super fast. fortunately it has at least some negative deceleration properties. if accel/decel took a little longer, one could get more damage in and punish unsieges more easily. and if maxspeed was higher, terran wouldn't be totally screwed on cross maps because stuff would actually fly really fast given enough time. accel/decel can be a great normalizer
goes for turbovac too. it used to have a decently slow acceleration phase, turbo just wrecked that part of its design. it could have had an interesting acceleration curve over say 3-10 seconds and REALLY high maxspeed but got turbo instead. if the problem was that new maps were so big terrans needed more avg. speed, it could have been given slow acceleration phase over 10 seconds and really high maxspeed. but now we remove cross positions from maps instead because zerg becomes imba.
Boost upgrade could have been removed or converted into a flat bonus to 'current acceleration value' - now it just goes crazy for x seconds. i wouldn't mind a medivac having higher base speed than mutalisk if i already had 8-10 seconds to deal a decent amount of damage to it, or if terrain basically stimmed their medivac to 0-energy in order to get away (assuming turbo would cost energy now). also, that should be a thing, having the choice to boost hard but lose a little bit of longevity. or just take it slow and let the acceleration do its thing. i'm not looking to nerf medivac extremely on small maps but adding a curve wouldn't be bad imo. far more opportunities for design choices and adding strength or weakness if you change boost/accel/decel properties, or other tweaks such as unload rate of the medivac.
as for esports/entertainment value acceleration curves also feel good, more suspense i think. nowadays when someone press the turbo button we know what's going to happen, everything's invincible for x seconds and we already know what the formula looks like in terms of map size and units catching up.
there are many minor tweaks that could potentially improve things, but we always see these medium-scale suggestions focusing on a single property from week to week instead of trying out a cocktail of things. i'm surprised that -2 armor on chitinous and +1 base armor to ultralisk hasn't been tried already for example ... and we always talk about something and then it's just kinda forgotten. like THIS thing which was delayed with a very good post, but then it just completely disappeared off the radar unless i'm completely wrong on that. i recently checked on twitter asking zergs what they'd prefer and 63% of 649 votes on my twitter said they wanted two buttons for unburrow/burrow compared to the current method.
i just feel like we're giving a ton of feedback which is great but most of the current issues just change from week to week and i'm not feeling like the testing happens enough, it's definitely possible to experiment with a lot at a time for balance test maps, and some potentially great changes are just left to be forgotten like the burrow change.
For example, here's a potential balance test map, straight out of imagination:
Liberator acceleration speed decreased, now accelerates to max speed over 2 (+-) seconds.
Liberator max speed increased to 5 (up from 4.72).
Liberator siege-up animation takes 0.5sec longer
Liberators can no longer target larva, only eggs.
Liberator bonus damage per attack vs light air decreased to 1 (down from 2).
Liberator base damage per attack vs air increased to 6 (up from 5).
Queen gains +1 bonus damage vs anti-air armored
Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade now adds 2 armor down from 4.
Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Ultralisk base armor increased to 2, up from 1.
Marauder attacks combined to one.
Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now reduces the time of the Liberator siege-up and unsiege animation greatly.
Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics range down to 3 from 4.
Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now increases the sight range of the liberator by 4 also outside of Defender mode.
and that's without even touching the medivac aside from queens doing 1 more damage to them, and nothing on the reaper either.
it's far easier to play a few games on a cocktail of changes to get a good feel of what seems right and what seems wrong. instead of just one change with limited context. because an unit test map with real games will never be perfect proving grounds to test ONE change that happens at ONE point in the game, people are just wasting like 90% of valuable playtime then. Introduce a big list, and balance test maps will be far more attractive and fun to play. And one can get far more actual valuable information. Hardly anyone (at least pro) care too much about test maps because they end up being pretty boring a lot of the time with only 1 or 2 changes.
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On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:maybe it's time to consider more options in regards to the unit movement speeds. all movement speeds in the game are very linear/static or just flat out high. liberator is extremely fast compared to its siege-y role, and it accelerates very quickly so it's hard to punish a run-away lib and they reposition super fast. fortunately it has at least some negative deceleration properties. if accel/decel took a little longer, one could get more damage in and punish unsieges more easily. and if maxspeed was higher, terran wouldn't be totally screwed on cross maps because stuff would actually fly really fast given enough time. accel/decel can be a great normalizer goes for turbovac too. it used to have a decently slow acceleration phase, turbo just wrecked that part of its design. it could have had an interesting acceleration curve over say 3-10 seconds and REALLY high maxspeed but got turbo instead. if the problem was that new maps were so big terrans needed more avg. speed, it could have been given slow acceleration phase over 10 seconds and really high maxspeed. but now we remove cross positions from maps instead because zerg becomes imba. Boost upgrade could have been removed or converted into a flat bonus to 'current acceleration value' - now it just goes crazy for x seconds. i wouldn't mind a medivac having higher base speed than mutalisk if i already had 8-10 seconds to deal a decent amount of damage to it, or if terrain basically stimmed their medivac to 0-energy in order to get away (assuming turbo would cost energy now). also, that should be a thing, having the choice to boost hard but lose a little bit of longevity. or just take it slow and let the acceleration do its thing. i'm not looking to nerf medivac extremely on small maps but adding a curve wouldn't be bad imo. far more opportunities for design choices and adding strength or weakness if you change boost/accel/decel properties, or other tweaks such as unload rate of the medivac. as for esports/entertainment value acceleration curves also feel good, more suspense i think. nowadays when someone press the turbo button we know what's going to happen, everything's invincible for x seconds and we already know what the formula looks like in terms of map size and units catching up. there are many minor tweaks that could potentially improve things, but we always see these medium-scale suggestions focusing on a single property from week to week instead of trying out a cocktail of things. i'm surprised that -2 armor on chitinous and +1 base armor to ultralisk hasn't been tried already for example ... and we always talk about something and then it's just kinda forgotten. like THIS thing which was delayed with a very good post, but then it just completely disappeared off the radar unless i'm completely wrong on that. i recently checked on twitter asking zergs what they'd prefer and 63% of 649 votes on my twitter said they wanted two buttons for unburrow/burrow compared to the current method. i just feel like we're giving a ton of feedback which is great but most of the current issues just change from week to week and i'm not feeling like the testing happens enough, it's definitely possible to experiment with a lot at a time for balance test maps, and some potentially great changes are just left to be forgotten like the burrow change. For example, here's a potential balance test map, straight out of imagination: Liberator acceleration speed decreased, now accelerates to max speed over 2 (+-) seconds. Liberator max speed increased to 5 (up from 4.72). Liberator siege-up animation takes 0.5sec longer Liberators can no longer target larva, only eggs. Liberator bonus damage per attack vs light air decreased to 1 (down from 2). Liberator base damage per attack vs air increased to 6 (up from 5). Queen gains +1 bonus damage vs anti-air armored Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade now adds 2 armor down from 4. Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100. Ultralisk base armor increased to 2, up from 1. Marauder attacks combined to one. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now reduces the time of the Liberator siege-up and unsiege animation greatly. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics range down to 3 from 4. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now increases the sight range of the liberator by 4 also outside of Defender mode. and that's without even touching the medivac aside from queens doing 1 more damage to them, and nothing on the reaper either. it's far easier to play a few games on a cocktail of changes to get a good feel of what seems right and what seems wrong. instead of just one change with limited context. because an unit test map with real games will never be perfect proving grounds to test ONE change that happens at ONE point in the game, people are just wasting like 90% of valuable playtime then. Introduce a big list, and balance test maps will be far more attractive and fun to play. And one can get far more actual valuable information. Hardly anyone (at least pro) care too much about test maps because they end up being pretty boring a lot of the time with only 1 or 2 changes.
There's a lot of great ideas here, but the cynical side of me says that Blizzard will never consider changing this much at one time, or even ever.
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On June 19 2016 04:23 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest. Past certain point the difficulty stops becoming the issue. It's the options of the race that determine how strong it is.
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On June 19 2016 05:36 Nazara wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 04:23 Aiobhill wrote:On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest. Past certain point the difficulty stops becoming the issue. It's the options of the race that determine how strong it is.
doesn't change the fact saying P requires no skill is
1/ not constructive
2/ false
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On June 19 2016 04:52 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 04:23 Aiobhill wrote:On June 19 2016 01:32 Nerchio wrote:
Can't wait for the time when playing protoss will require some skill Race vs league distribution makes it reasonably obvious that Protoss is currently the hardest race. And yours the easiest. Not saying anything about which race is the "hardest" but your argument has a few holes in it. I can say that zerg is the hardest race because they are doing worst at the top korean level. Terran is the hardest because non-koran terrans are not doing that well etc.
Is it a hole in an argument? We can assume korean pros can play the game, and that difficulty is not deciding factor for them. Then again, huge amounts of stats back up the notion that protoss is most difficult to play or at least most difficult to do well with, while zerg seems easiest by a wide margin.
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Snute coming with some great ideas again!
I hope, when he stops being progamer one day, Blizzard will hire him into the balance team of all their future games.
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On June 19 2016 05:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:maybe it's time to consider more options in regards to the unit movement speeds. all movement speeds in the game are very linear/static or just flat out high. liberator is extremely fast compared to its siege-y role, and it accelerates very quickly so it's hard to punish a run-away lib and they reposition super fast. fortunately it has at least some negative deceleration properties. if accel/decel took a little longer, one could get more damage in and punish unsieges more easily. and if maxspeed was higher, terran wouldn't be totally screwed on cross maps because stuff would actually fly really fast given enough time. accel/decel can be a great normalizer goes for turbovac too. it used to have a decently slow acceleration phase, turbo just wrecked that part of its design. it could have had an interesting acceleration curve over say 3-10 seconds and REALLY high maxspeed but got turbo instead. if the problem was that new maps were so big terrans needed more avg. speed, it could have been given slow acceleration phase over 10 seconds and really high maxspeed. but now we remove cross positions from maps instead because zerg becomes imba. Boost upgrade could have been removed or converted into a flat bonus to 'current acceleration value' - now it just goes crazy for x seconds. i wouldn't mind a medivac having higher base speed than mutalisk if i already had 8-10 seconds to deal a decent amount of damage to it, or if terrain basically stimmed their medivac to 0-energy in order to get away (assuming turbo would cost energy now). also, that should be a thing, having the choice to boost hard but lose a little bit of longevity. or just take it slow and let the acceleration do its thing. i'm not looking to nerf medivac extremely on small maps but adding a curve wouldn't be bad imo. far more opportunities for design choices and adding strength or weakness if you change boost/accel/decel properties, or other tweaks such as unload rate of the medivac. as for esports/entertainment value acceleration curves also feel good, more suspense i think. nowadays when someone press the turbo button we know what's going to happen, everything's invincible for x seconds and we already know what the formula looks like in terms of map size and units catching up. there are many minor tweaks that could potentially improve things, but we always see these medium-scale suggestions focusing on a single property from week to week instead of trying out a cocktail of things. i'm surprised that -2 armor on chitinous and +1 base armor to ultralisk hasn't been tried already for example ... and we always talk about something and then it's just kinda forgotten. like THIS thing which was delayed with a very good post, but then it just completely disappeared off the radar unless i'm completely wrong on that. i recently checked on twitter asking zergs what they'd prefer and 63% of 649 votes on my twitter said they wanted two buttons for unburrow/burrow compared to the current method. i just feel like we're giving a ton of feedback which is great but most of the current issues just change from week to week and i'm not feeling like the testing happens enough, it's definitely possible to experiment with a lot at a time for balance test maps, and some potentially great changes are just left to be forgotten like the burrow change. For example, here's a potential balance test map, straight out of imagination: Liberator acceleration speed decreased, now accelerates to max speed over 2 (+-) seconds. Liberator max speed increased to 5 (up from 4.72). Liberator siege-up animation takes 0.5sec longer Liberators can no longer target larva, only eggs. Liberator bonus damage per attack vs light air decreased to 1 (down from 2). Liberator base damage per attack vs air increased to 6 (up from 5). Queen gains +1 bonus damage vs anti-air armored Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade now adds 2 armor down from 4. Ultralisk chitinous plating upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100. Ultralisk base armor increased to 2, up from 1. Marauder attacks combined to one. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now reduces the time of the Liberator siege-up and unsiege animation greatly. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics range down to 3 from 4. Liberator upgrade Advanced Ballistics now increases the sight range of the liberator by 4 also outside of Defender mode. and that's without even touching the medivac aside from queens doing 1 more damage to them, and nothing on the reaper either. it's far easier to play a few games on a cocktail of changes to get a good feel of what seems right and what seems wrong. instead of just one change with limited context. because an unit test map with real games will never be perfect proving grounds to test ONE change that happens at ONE point in the game, people are just wasting like 90% of valuable playtime then. Introduce a big list, and balance test maps will be far more attractive and fun to play. And one can get far more actual valuable information. Hardly anyone (at least pro) care too much about test maps because they end up being pretty boring a lot of the time with only 1 or 2 changes. There's a lot of great ideas here, but the cynical side of me says that Blizzard will never consider changing this much at one time, or even ever.
I don't think they should change that many things at a time. The game would get confusing very fast, with all the exceptions and subtle changes all over. I like it for the test map though, since you see what's great and what's not and then the best changes can be published into the game.
I think it could be pretty cool to give all dropships more max speed, but give them intentional very slow acceleration speed.
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It feels like David Kim has multiple personalities with a very short attention span. It could be simply the result of being a spokesperson for a team of people that may or may not exist, or that they genuinely changed their minds due to new feedback or evidence, but the amount of times they have backtracked, ignored or contradicted themselves from week to week is just bizarre. 4 larvae change has popped back again this week dispide dismissing it earlier, only to decide that liberators are the real problem. It truly makes you wonder what exactly does the balance team do with their time.
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Medivac boost and lack of non-allin early game Zerg aggression is still my biggest problem with the game, I back Snute's methodology 1000%.
I still think medivac boost should be an upgrade!
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On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:Boost upgrade could have been removed or converted into a flat bonus to 'current acceleration value' - now it just goes crazy for x seconds. i wouldn't mind a medivac having higher base speed than mutalisk if i already had 8-10 seconds to deal a decent amount of damage to it, or if terrain basically stimmed their medivac to 0-energy in order to get away (assuming turbo would cost energy now). also, that should be a thing, having the choice to boost hard but lose a little bit of longevity. or just take it slow and let the acceleration do its thing. i'm not looking to nerf medivac extremely on small maps but adding a curve wouldn't be bad imo. far more opportunities for design choices and adding strength or weakness if you change boost/accel/decel properties, or other tweaks such as unload rate of the medivac.
I don't think it could have. The medivac needed a good escape mechanism for drop play to remain relevant beyond a quick early drop. It needed it at the end of Wings of Liberty, frankly, and in the face of things like photon overcharge and faster mutas, it became even more necessary. It has resulted in far more entertaining and fun gameplay than any sort of flat buff could have. Even if we retain some sort of acceleration booster, units with really slow acceleration curves are just not fun to play with and they would be absolutely miserable to play with in normal army engagements outside of drops. Just imagine trying to dance against zerg/protoss armies with MMM with medivacs that can't keep up with your dance and just get continually and frustratingly picked off.
On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:as for esports/entertainment value acceleration curves also feel good, more suspense i think. nowadays when someone press the turbo button we know what's going to happen, everything's invincible for x seconds and we already know what the formula looks like in terms of map size and units catching up.
Invincible? Players that force pickups and then position units along the retreat path to pick off the medivacs happens all the time. Why would just a-moving units at slowly accelerating units be more interesting and superior gameplay?
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Norway839 Posts
On June 19 2016 07:21 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:Boost upgrade could have been removed or converted into a flat bonus to 'current acceleration value' - now it just goes crazy for x seconds. i wouldn't mind a medivac having higher base speed than mutalisk if i already had 8-10 seconds to deal a decent amount of damage to it, or if terrain basically stimmed their medivac to 0-energy in order to get away (assuming turbo would cost energy now). also, that should be a thing, having the choice to boost hard but lose a little bit of longevity. or just take it slow and let the acceleration do its thing. i'm not looking to nerf medivac extremely on small maps but adding a curve wouldn't be bad imo. far more opportunities for design choices and adding strength or weakness if you change boost/accel/decel properties, or other tweaks such as unload rate of the medivac. I don't think it could have. The medivac needed a good escape mechanism for drop play to remain relevant beyond a quick early drop. It needed it at the end of Wings of Liberty, frankly, and in the face of things like photon overcharge and faster mutas, it became even more necessary. It has resulted in far more entertaining and fun gameplay than any sort of flat buff could have. Even if we retain some sort of acceleration booster, units with really slow acceleration curves are just not fun to play with and they would be absolutely miserable to play with in normal army engagements outside of drops. Just imagine trying to dance against zerg/protoss armies with MMM with medivacs that can't keep up with your dance and just get continually and frustratingly picked off. Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 05:22 Liquid`Snute wrote:as for esports/entertainment value acceleration curves also feel good, more suspense i think. nowadays when someone press the turbo button we know what's going to happen, everything's invincible for x seconds and we already know what the formula looks like in terms of map size and units catching up. Invincible? Players that force pickups and then position units along the retreat path to pick off the medivacs happens all the time. Why would just a-moving units at slowly accelerating units be more interesting and superior gameplay?
i think a slower accelerate and higher max speed would encourage interceptions, and help terran on larger maps. but, right now it's extremely situational to intercept vacs in zvt for zerg. both with ravagers skillshots (until fungal bile), queens, and even mutas (requires ling support and certain terrain criteria). i wouldn't say it happens 'all the time'.. very rarely, i think. i really wish i could land more shots on moving liberators and vacs but it's almost impossible because they're too oily.
as for frontline engagements, maybe if healing rates were increased it would be more okay to take a trade and focus on mm micro (target-firing and splitting). as an alternative to packing up and boosting away quickly when the time is right. a lot of the time, medivacs survive anyway because of the lack of anti-air in zvt. protoss are a big problem when it comes to tuning medivac acceleration, sadly.
i guess my point is that if bio units and tanks were stronger, terran wouldn't have to rely so much on vacs and hit&run to do anything. it could benefit ground for both terran and zerg if medivac mobility was reduced and if ground units became stronger, especially the siege tank. but i suppose that discussion has already been taken many places before this and it's not exactly on point about this community update and the liberator, so i guess i shouldn't spend too much time talking about it ...
i agree with the other posters that the way that focus went from 'zerg having trouble in the match-up' to 'liberator is the issue' way too fast, too. i know they're stating that this is the majority of the feedback they received, and while i do agree that liberator harass is somewhat annoying, it can't possibly be as simple as "if zerg just defends liberator harass ZvT is perfectly fine". because i play so much zvt and i know what it looks like, liberator harass is a very minor part of the match-up and the early game issues that zerg face, it can't be that simple.
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I've said everything that can be said for SC2, and have tried to constantly wake up the community. I'll just copy my thoughts/post i made about this patch:
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Terribad upddate. We have had about 10 of these updates in a row with no meaningful balance changes. Let alone any MENTION of them at all. Here are the actual balance changes addressing the myriad of issues of LOTV that need to be looked at, and won't be because blizzard seems to not give a fuck or more than likely it is just incompetence at this point on the part of one or more balance devs (i don't know what else it can be at this point).
Here you go, here's a list:
-mech viability
-reaper grenade (remove it, it makes TvT/TvZ horseshit build order win/loss)
-liberator range (should be removed, lib nerf revert)
-8 armor ultra (should be removed)
-marauder nerf (should be reverted to HOTS)
-invincible nydus (revert to HOTS, reduce it's price)
-tankivac (remove it, buff the actual tank)
-ravager spam (move ravager to lair, tankivac removed with this)
-tier 1 overlord drop (moved back to lair)
-adepts (make adept shade remove all adept shields, drawback)
-warp prism range (remove 1-2 range on this)
-protoss chronoboost (not supposed to start game with this...)
-cyclones (still suck)
-tempests (need to be 6 supply, not 4, it's broken in lategame in every match-up)0000
I may have missed some, apologies if i missed any other big ones for any of the races. The list goes on...
But sure SC2 community let blizzard continue to placate you like they're actually doing any meaningful changes to the game. All of the changes they do are so small, so tiny, so afraid of fixing anything...it's just PR at this point. They won't actually put out a meaningful balance patch.
I understand blizzard obviously doesn't want this game to die...but at this point there is a either a disconnect between the reality and state of balance of the game or someone is really, really incompetent with balance changes/iteration.
It's also why twitch viewers have left the game in droves =/ and i think a lot of them would come back to the game if blizzard would actually put effort and risk into a good balance patch to fix a lot of the above issues.
It won't happen though if they keep just feeding you guys PR and people eat it up and don't say anything and the game stays in the current terrible state that it's in atm =/
I can't wait in 3 months from now guys for the sick new balance patch that will come out from blizzard SC2:
-spore crawler unburrow/reburrow reduced by 1 second!
"See you bitches in another 9 months!" -blizzard
p.s. Yes, i'm salty as fuck because i see the game i love dying very slowly through patches that do literally nothing for the gameplay of the game.
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With this most recent Community Update, which is just PR at this point to satiate SC2 while not actually doing any meaningful balance changes...i've pretty much given up any hope of SC2 growing in the next few years.
It's really depressing, like i mentioned a lot in the past weeks and in another video...it basically will take a huge community rallying/effort to force blizzard's hand to get a more competent balance designer/team or to actually patch their game and iterate upon patch changes.
Oh wells. =/
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Can't wait for IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA to return :D
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I don't think 8 anti air range queens are good for the game in general. It would fix a specific problem but create more new problems.
My current suggestions:
1. Remove liberator anti ground before upgrade altogether so that they can be used for anti air. Let the upgrade enable it with standard range like non-upgraded is now!
Terran has enough early harrassment options with medivacs + x and banshees are still there as well.
2. Move ravager to lair requirement in return. Ravagers come way too early to the game and deny mech-play. They also suck in ZvZ that early and create variance.
3. Remove tankivacs and introduce a new tank upgrade that buffs tank damage vs. massive for not too high costs (e.g. 100/100 or 200/25, + ~35 dmg on target only, maybe even add some extra damage vs. protoss shields to this upgrade).
4. Nerf adepts some so that protoss doesn't benefit from these changes too much (e.g. reduce cost to 100/25 but make them 3 shot drones unupgraded and 2 shot them with 1-0 upgrades, like zealots vs. lings basically (10+9 damage instead of 10+12). Or any better idea here?
5. Nerf warp prism pickup range already, it is just bullshit as it is.
6. Remove mothership from the game. I'd rather do this than increase supply of tempests. The major problem for me is that protoss can even put that mothership on top of that unbeatable deathball in the end and cloak everything with it while tempests pick detectors and static defense. Increase of tempest supply: I would go with 5 instead of 6 for now.
Additionally: I gotta agree with avilo on the point that reaper grenades are way overpowered and haven't been mentioned much or at all yet. It is defenitely a thing that has to change sooner or later. I haven't played much 2v2 in LOTV yet but experiencing double Z vs double T double 3 rax reaper was nothing I wanna ever have again.
Only nerfs not buffs .... game is overbuffed already, midgame seems to be too short, endgame comes too early.
On June 18 2016 12:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Blizzard's habit of going for the smallest possible change is harmful in the long run. Changes like buffing spores vs biological units are unhealthy, since they don't solve the underlying problem. If Blizzard thinks the liberators are the problem in TvZ (personally I don't feel like that's the problem, but that's irrelevant for this argument) they should nerf the liberator instead of going for some inelegant change of limited scope. Mild repercussions to other match-ups shouldn't block a change from going ahead if that change is truly the best one. Those repercussions can be handled later or mitigated by other simultaneous buffs or nerfs.
Exactly. I wonder why men of adult age cannot understand this simple but valid logic and feel the urge to arrange their philosophy on exclusively buffing instead of buffing+nerfing, no matter at what cost. It hasn't worked in the past and it wont work in the future. That must have come out of the same great mind that believed splitting leagues into divisions and making hundreds of guys #1 is gonna make everything good. Probably some marketing guy was tought that somewhere at college.
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EPT
