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Ej_
47656 Posts
On June 19 2016 12:43 LSN wrote: 2. Move ravager to lair requirement in return. Ravagers come way too early to the game and deny mech-play. They also s can't wait to get immortal all-ined every 2nd ZvP again | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On June 19 2016 16:26 Ej_ wrote: can't wait to get immortal all-ined every 2nd ZvP again Nah, every game more likely. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On June 19 2016 09:51 avilo wrote: I've said everything that can be said for SC2, and have tried to constantly wake up the community. I'll just copy my thoughts/post i made about this patch: ---------- Terribad upddate. We have had about 10 of these updates in a row with no meaningful balance changes. Let alone any MENTION of them at all. Here are the actual balance changes addressing the myriad of issues of LOTV that need to be looked at, and won't be because blizzard seems to not give a fuck or more than likely it is just incompetence at this point on the part of one or more balance devs (i don't know what else it can be at this point). Here you go, here's a list: -mech viability -reaper grenade (remove it, it makes TvT/TvZ horseshit build order win/loss) -liberator range (should be removed, lib nerf revert) -8 armor ultra (should be removed) -marauder nerf (should be reverted to HOTS) -invincible nydus (revert to HOTS, reduce it's price) -tankivac (remove it, buff the actual tank) -ravager spam (move ravager to lair, tankivac removed with this) -tier 1 overlord drop (moved back to lair) -adepts (make adept shade remove all adept shields, drawback) -warp prism range (remove 1-2 range on this) -protoss chronoboost (not supposed to start game with this...) -cyclones (still suck) -tempests (need to be 6 supply, not 4, it's broken in lategame in every match-up)0000 I may have missed some, apologies if i missed any other big ones for any of the races. The list goes on... But sure SC2 community let blizzard continue to placate you like they're actually doing any meaningful changes to the game. All of the changes they do are so small, so tiny, so afraid of fixing anything...it's just PR at this point. They won't actually put out a meaningful balance patch. I understand blizzard obviously doesn't want this game to die...but at this point there is a either a disconnect between the reality and state of balance of the game or someone is really, really incompetent with balance changes/iteration. It's also why twitch viewers have left the game in droves =/ and i think a lot of them would come back to the game if blizzard would actually put effort and risk into a good balance patch to fix a lot of the above issues. It won't happen though if they keep just feeding you guys PR and people eat it up and don't say anything and the game stays in the current terrible state that it's in atm =/ I can't wait in 3 months from now guys for the sick new balance patch that will come out from blizzard SC2: -spore crawler unburrow/reburrow reduced by 1 second! "See you bitches in another 9 months!" -blizzard p.s. Yes, i'm salty as fuck because i see the game i love dying very slowly through patches that do literally nothing for the gameplay of the game. ------------------------- With this most recent Community Update, which is just PR at this point to satiate SC2 while not actually doing any meaningful balance changes...i've pretty much given up any hope of SC2 growing in the next few years. It's really depressing, like i mentioned a lot in the past weeks and in another video...it basically will take a huge community rallying/effort to force blizzard's hand to get a more competent balance designer/team or to actually patch their game and iterate upon patch changes. Oh wells. =/ I agree 100% with this. The game needs larger changes to make the game more fun to play and more interesting to watch. Just tweaking balance so that win rates stay at around 50% does nothing to ensure SC2 survival. | ||
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beefITek
France54 Posts
TvP is a massacre, boring to play, boring to watch P can win without any splash damage, but if they are too bad for that, that can add storm colossus and disruptors in their compo.. | ||
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coolmiyo
51 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On June 19 2016 21:54 coolmiyo wrote: do david kim read teamliquid balance feedback or just battlenet? he seems to read both | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
I'm pretty sure he mostly ignores TL and pays more attention to reddit. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On June 19 2016 22:27 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure he mostly ignores TL and pays more attention to reddit. I don't read reddit so maybe things that are said on TL are said on reddit too but lastly he seemed to be aware of the TL feedback | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
1. Game is too fast everything dies in seconds, especially workers. There too many harass options early game, especially from Protoss. 2. Unit clumping, your shit dies so fast because if it. 3. Protoss. The bullshit levels are rising from this race. HOTs was bad enough with their invincible 2 bases , but LoTV has took it to a new level. They dont even need build cannons anymore until the fast 3rd base is up, at which point a Protoss on 6 gas gets all their tech and basically shits on the other 2 races so hard. Adepts costing 25 gas is fucking insanely cheap for a unit that can never die unless its owner actually wants to suicide the unit. Also what with the Protoss base being a living weapon, almost 80% of its base can be used as a long rang cannon !!! Its no wonder the game is declining, people are sick of the bullshit. 2/3rds of the players feel left out and are basically moving on to other things. Fixes -- Avilo is right, these bullshit community updates are jut PR, i personally would take it further. Blizzard should create a fork in the game, where the game is revamped with a different rule set in Beta and make some fundamental changes. +1 second to spore burrow or adding 2 seconds to stim research duration once every 3 months is soul destroying and is actually worse than doing nothing. User was warned for this post | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On June 19 2016 16:26 Ej_ wrote: can't wait to get immortal all-ined every 2nd ZvP again Surely more is needed than what I suggested. Just wanted to give a direction with these suggestions. Anyway I would prefer to see huge overhaul of everything, but as this is quite unlikely to come small steps must be gone. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
For example, here are three simple steps that would improve the game very quick : - huge adept shade cooldown nerf and 5 (or 6) supply tempests - removal of liberator range - +1 to queen AA range and additional larvae for lair/hive. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
As liberator is the only unit in the game that really makes anybody question range 7 AA units, it's the much more obvious thing to adjust if you're looking to change those interactions | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On June 19 2016 23:25 Cyro wrote: Giving queens 8 or 9 range isn't going to make zerg do better with 1 queen per base, it's just gonna make more people play with like 6-8 queens even more often As liberator is the only unit in the game that really makes anybody question range 7 AA units, it's the much more obvious thing to adjust if you're looking to change those interactions +1 range to queens would help Z vs phoenix and prisms too and I don't think a little bit of help in both mus would hurt Zerg | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
(also range and mobility creep in general..) | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On June 19 2016 23:30 Cyro wrote: It's quite a big buff for a unit that's been buffed in combat strength repeatedly since WOL without having the cost changed once. I don't personally think the games with 6 queens super early or 12 queens in the midgame are fun to watch or play I thought it was a huge buff at the beginning too but I came to think it was at least worth testing. I have no problems with queens being a core part of Z midgame. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
E. g. I don't even know why terran needed the liberator as early game harrass and zerg needs something as strong as the ravager in early games already, probably cause protoss is unattackable with pylon cannon and adepts without them. The spiral can go on infinitely. Buffs support abusive play with units. Queens are a strong unit as they are. When you buff their range nydus play e.g. vs. terran defensive liberator will get stronger. I dont see voidrays ever dealing with queens again in a reasonable way when they get additional range. The goal for SC2 should be to create reasonable unit interactions and a slower progression through this. But yes in this very situation +1 queen range would probably help some, so go for it. I just question that we wont be out of problems after that. Nothing general will change. The main problem is that they alianated the races from their natural and organic play: - Terran the better mobile race than zerg with speed medivacs being able to carry everything anywhere on the map and liberators replacing tanks that can move quickly through the air. - Zerg the defensive race unable to utilize their ability to switch units for good and lacking the defense terran has all over the place with wall-ins, bunkers, mines, tanks, liberators, PF, and alot of ranged units. The right choice would be to let terran be the defensive race with all their ranged units and let zerg attack with their melee stuff. Therefore the big overhaul is needed. Just restart the game without marauders, without muta regen, without speed medivac, with lurkers come into game early (on ravager position) against bio to force tank, with ravagers being a late midgame option against mech (on lurkers position). With banelings being removed or damage halfed so they are not main component of army but little splash addition to lings. And so on. Other than that in current meta: Adepts should get further nerfed and invincible nydus should go immediately. | ||
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Zulu23
Germany132 Posts
This Development Started in hots once the Oracle was introduced... Since then we got more and more even more deadly Units that require too little action to be effective. Yes the liberator is strong, but there are many other Units and comps in the Game that require it bering that strong. I'm Personally Fine with a Queen buff if at the other Hand something is nerved for the Queen at the same Time The Spore crawler buff seems the better option also here i would appreciate when there is a nerf at this Unit then at the Same Time. Maybe decrease damage or range | ||
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TequilaMockingbird
Germany64 Posts
Is this a mistake ? Did I miss something ? Why no new maps, i was really looking forward to finally playing some new maps. I even set an alarm to wake up early and play SC before work  | ||
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
On June 19 2016 23:30 Cyro wrote: It's quite a big buff for a unit that's been buffed in combat strength repeatedly since WOL without having the cost changed once. I don't personally think the games with 6 queens super early or 12 queens in the midgame are fun to watch or play (also range and mobility creep in general..) The more I look at the problems that arise in sc2 the more I'm convinced that Hydras should have been made T1.5 at hatch tech. Instead Zerg have Queens which try to do the AA job early game but are never enough so they are buffed repeatedly. Terran have Marines, Protoss Stalkers and Zerg have to cope with slow low dmg queens. No wonder they have problems against aerial harass. | ||
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