On May 30 2016 00:53 opisska wrote: Some people may dislike the heated discussion such posts bring up, but to me, it's a great sign that the passion is still burning.
The real writers' curse. Your work either gets ignored or people start arguing over it.
Or both at the same time judging from all the people I've seen arguing over stuchiu's articles without reading them.
You can read the articles but disagree with the criteria he uses to come to these conclusions
Or you can just look at the numbers of any of his GOAT rankings and start calling him an idiot right away. It's what a lot of people do.
Hell, I remember that time where stuchiu made an article about the lack of new blood in the Korean scene and the new WCS system. A "community figure" called it shit and later admitted to never reading it.
So clearly you can ignore the work and still argue about it
Well with these rankings it's pretty easy to ignore the body of work (the text) and simply argue about the list. That's not necessarily the fault of anyone in this case (even though you obviously should read it to get a better understanding of the criteria used, etc) But yeah Nathanias () talking down on that espn article was rather stupid considering it was clear he didn't even read it. His explanation after the fact didn't seem to make any sense either.
The way the article I criticized was very poorly laid out and that was my problem with it. You state one problem, one cause, then talk about the problem and only at the end say "Well the system change probably didn't make flash retire but whatever" after the reader has already formed an opinion.
On May 30 2016 00:53 opisska wrote: Some people may dislike the heated discussion such posts bring up, but to me, it's a great sign that the passion is still burning.
The real writers' curse. Your work either gets ignored or people start arguing over it.
Or both at the same time judging from all the people I've seen arguing over stuchiu's articles without reading them.
You can read the articles but disagree with the criteria he uses to come to these conclusions
Or you can just look at the numbers of any of his GOAT rankings and start calling him an idiot right away. It's what a lot of people do.
Hell, I remember that time where stuchiu made an article about the lack of new blood in the Korean scene and the new WCS system. A "community figure" called it shit and later admitted to never reading it.
So clearly you can ignore the work and still argue about it
Well with these rankings it's pretty easy to ignore the body of work (the text) and simply argue about the list. That's not necessarily the fault of anyone in this case (even though you obviously should read it to get a better understanding of the criteria used, etc) But yeah Nathanias () talking down on that espn article was rather stupid considering it was clear he didn't even read it. His explanation after the fact didn't seem to make any sense either.
The way the article I criticized was very poorly laid out and that was my problem with it. You state one problem, one cause, then talk about the problem and only at the end say "Well the system change probably didn't make flash retire but whatever" after the reader has already formed an opinion.
You called Stuchiu an ass and said the article was shit, then admitted you didn't even read it. Then when you were called out you deleted some tweets and changed your reason for disliking it. That criticism is valid but you didn't initially hate on it for that reason.
On May 30 2016 23:13 Tiaraju9 wrote: I have a peculiar relationship with Zest play. I took a break from Starcraft for most of 2014, precisely when Zest was playing like a god.
When I came back in 2015 there was this "Zest is best" talk going on, but Zest was not actually performing. The situation made me confused and back then I had this feeling that Zest is the most overrated player ever.
I just hope that he stays performing for more than 1 year this time.
you missed most of the SC2 in 2014 and you claimed you felt Zest was the most overrated player ever？ so are you saying that things you dont know mean they dont exist ?
yes, he didnt get any korean titles in 2015, but he was the most winning player in SPL of the year (with hero), how could a "overrated player" did that?
I dont understand why you jin air fans being so mad about zest, and by the way, "zest is best " is fancheer, he is sure the best in his fans' eyes, just like sos and maru are the best in your JAGW fans' eyes, what is the point to even argue about?
and since you are so despise him, I doubt that he staying performing even for more than 10 years would help
I wasn't hating on zest, I was hating on KT player's dismissal on sOs.
are you seriously?? have you ever READed your jin air fan comrades comments ??
"zest doesnt deserve the Titan title for his poor winrate" "TY is a loser" "zest is the most overrated"
and suddenly it becomes "KT player's dismissal on sOs"？？
"TY is a loser" is not his quote, that is MY quote! And I said it only in relation when I mentioned that the Korean pros believe, that the strongest race on the top level are Terrans. But there is only one Terran, who shines and is beating all the other TOP players and it is not TY. And I got a reaction "And who else than TY?" ... so in this relation, among the TOP players, TY is really a loser. You can't take quotes out of the context.
does it make any difference since the JAGW fans here share the same points anyway? 2 times GSL champion is the most overrated player, 1 time GSL runner-up is a REAL loser. KT sucks! that's all
No, we don't share the same points. For me, yes, winning GSL a few times is more worth than anything else. sOs is a master in creativity, mind games and with the right mindset, he is able to beat any opponent in a large tournament through his unexpected versatility. But now, for sure, Zest is much better.
On the other hand, TY is a great player, who on the whole way through GSL was quite lucky, because he did not face a single player from the top ones. His score in 2016 with the currently top players is 1:10. Therefore, he does not belong among the top 5-8 players and can be in no case compared with Maru in 2016 (the same score 6:3, even with his losses in GSL and SSL).
KT do not suck and actually I believe, they are stronger than we are. Just, we are able to surprise, both sOs and Rogue are able to win against anyone (and also lose to anyone), while Maru can beat anyone except Zest almost effortlessly. We are quite lucky and quite happy, we won :-)
In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
On May 31 2016 16:17 opisska wrote: So this year, we really, really need the finals to be JA-KT apparently.
Better not. SKT is sponsoring the whole Proleague, so they deserve a place in the final. I fear, whether they would sponsor it next year, if their own team did not make it to the final ...
On May 31 2016 16:17 opisska wrote: So this year, we really, really need the finals to be JA-KT apparently.
Better not. SKT is sponsoring the whole Proleague, so they deserve a place in the final. I fear, whether they would sponsor it next year, if their own team did not make it to the final ...
I don't think they are that petty.
Think about it how it would make sense. Last year, SKT was dominating individual leagues left and right, this year it's KT. Last year, TL was full of SKT hate from JA fans long before the finals were clear, this year the target is KT. The right progression for the playoffs would be some "Cinderella story team" getting crushed by SKT, then SKT-KT and KT-JA finals.
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
Consistent hero? What? Rain was one of the most stable macro P, Parting was one of the best players for the longest period(though his inability to get over RO8 in GSL was pretty painful). Yes, Zest had his slumping stage, but Mvp had his slump stages too(that's why he was an underdog in many tournaments he won), not mentioning Taeja who is named after Summer just because he can switch to god mode only with enough sunshine(why isn't he living in a desert? ).
C'mon, there is plenty of consistent Protoss players. I am still awed how people tend to mention only things they like (well, not really :D)
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
So which probability is higher in the future? sOs win several GSL/SSL champions to be the GOAT, or MC win several Blizzcon champions to be the GOAT?
The article claims Zest is "the last Titan", which is completely not related to his team and teammates. It's all about "individual achievements", same for sOs. Why people start to argue JA vs KT? So KT is "the last Titan" now?
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
So which probability is higher in the future? sOs win several GSL/SSL champions to be the GOAT, or MC win several Blizzcon champions to be the GOAT?
On May 30 2016 23:13 Tiaraju9 wrote: I have a peculiar relationship with Zest play. I took a break from Starcraft for most of 2014, precisely when Zest was playing like a god.
When I came back in 2015 there was this "Zest is best" talk going on, but Zest was not actually performing. The situation made me confused and back then I had this feeling that Zest is the most overrated player ever.
I just hope that he stays performing for more than 1 year this time.
you missed most of the SC2 in 2014 and you claimed you felt Zest was the most overrated player ever？ so are you saying that things you dont know mean they dont exist ?
yes, he didnt get any korean titles in 2015, but he was the most winning player in SPL of the year (with hero), how could a "overrated player" did that?
I dont understand why you jin air fans being so mad about zest, and by the way, "zest is best " is fancheer, he is sure the best in his fans' eyes, just like sos and maru are the best in your JAGW fans' eyes, what is the point to even argue about?
and since you are so despise him, I doubt that he staying performing even for more than 10 years would help
I wasn't hating on zest, I was hating on KT player's dismissal on sOs.
are you seriously?? have you ever READed your jin air fan comrades comments ??
"zest doesnt deserve the Titan title for his poor winrate" "TY is a loser" "zest is the most overrated"
and suddenly it becomes "KT player's dismissal on sOs"？？
"TY is a loser" is not his quote, that is MY quote! And I said it only in relation when I mentioned that the Korean pros believe, that the strongest race on the top level are Terrans. But there is only one Terran, who shines and is beating all the other TOP players and it is not TY. And I got a reaction "And who else than TY?" ... so in this relation, among the TOP players, TY is really a loser. You can't take quotes out of the context.
does it make any difference since the JAGW fans here share the same points anyway? 2 times GSL champion is the most overrated player, 1 time GSL runner-up is a REAL loser. KT sucks! that's all
Dude, I think you should calm down, stop picking fight. JinAir fans already admit Zest is the best player right now, that's enough. That was the point of this whole great debate
On May 31 2016 20:30 Alarak89 wrote: The article claims Zest is "the last Titan", which is completely not related to his team and teammates. It's all about "individual achievements", same for sOs. Why people start to argue JA vs KT? So KT is "the last Titan" now?
First, let's get my point across, you're hella annoying and you're the one who started this whole great debate thing
Second, look at all of those who decided to dismiss Zest's achievement and bash him ain a thread about him, do you know what's the similarity?
They are mostly JinAir fan, or blind sOs fan, which I also consider as JA's fan. Then you guys start to bring the topic to sOs and Maru, and bash TY. Is that not JA's fan bashing KT?
Guys they're both great Which is why it's so silly to say Zest is the last titan. sOs have a whoppin' $435,153 in esports earning, which is way up there for Starcraft. He's performed all kills, reverse all kills, if sOs is playing in any finals of a tournament, I'm gonna bet on him regardless of who the opponent is.
On May 31 2016 21:05 NinjaToss wrote:Then you guys start to bring the topic to sOs and Maru, and bash TY. Is that not JA's fan bashing KT?
That was the general discussion about the best player, where I brought up the interesting thing that Korean pros consider Terrans as the strongest race at the TOP level. And mentioned, that this is because of one player (who is not TY). And KT fans started to argue, that why is it not TY? First that was the moment, when I started to "bash TY" = explain, why he is not one of the players from absolute TOP (because he cannot compete with any player from the absolute TOP).
On May 31 2016 21:05 NinjaToss wrote:Then you guys start to bring the topic to sOs and Maru, and bash TY. Is that not JA's fan bashing KT?
That was the general discussion about the best player, where I brought up the interesting thing that Korean pros consider Terrans as the strongest race at the TOP level. And mentioned, that this is because of one player (who is not TY). And KT fans started to argue, that why is it not TY? First that was the moment, when I started to "bash TY" = explain, why he is not one of the players from absolute TOP (because he cannot compete with any player from the absolute TOP).
I get your point, but calling TY a LOSER is really too strong and too negative
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
So which probability is higher in the future? sOs win several GSL/SSL champions to be the GOAT, or MC win several Blizzcon champions to be the GOAT?
0 is equal to 0.
You obviously don't believe hard enough in your president...
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
So which probability is higher in the future? sOs win several GSL/SSL champions to be the GOAT, or MC win several Blizzcon champions to be the GOAT?
0 is equal to 0.
Nah, sOs supposes to get two offline champions each year (at least), that's his "tradition" Since he already got one this year, let's see what offline titles are left for the second half of 2016: GSL, SSL, Blizzcon and maybe HomeStory Cup? So make your choice
On May 31 2016 15:19 Kitai wrote: In my eyes, protoss is the one race that hasn't had a consistent hero that was able to stay super dominant for a long period of time, besides maybe MC. Terran had MVP, TaeJa, Maru, and INnoVation, while zerg had Life, Nestea, and soO.
Zest, Rain, and Dear were all at one point hailed as the upcoming greatest protoss players of all time. It's nice to see Zest having a resurgence, but I'm really hesitant to hop on his hype train until he stays consistently ridiculously good for another few months. Of all the GOAT protoss contenders still playing today, I'd personally give the edge to sOs or MC even if they aren't at Zest's level this particular instant.
So which probability is higher in the future? sOs win several GSL/SSL champions to be the GOAT, or MC win several Blizzcon champions to be the GOAT?
0 is equal to 0.
Nah, sOs supposes to get two offline champions each year (at least), that's his "tradition" Since he already got one this year, let's see what offline titles are left for the second half of 2016: GSL, SSL, Blizzcon and maybe HomeStory Cup? So make your choice
Considering that his first title this year was rather unimportant, i would guess it to be Homestory cup
EPT
) talking down on that espn article was rather stupid considering it was clear he didn't even read it. His explanation after the fact didn't seem to make any sense either.
