EPTIt was removed because it was hardly ever used. Its primary use was making the thor prioritize ground targets instead of air. It's going to take more than bumping its dps up a bit to make it useful.
Call to Action: April 21 Balance Testing - Page 5
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
It was removed because it was hardly ever used. Its primary use was making the thor prioritize ground targets instead of air. It's going to take more than bumping its dps up a bit to make it useful. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
It was removed because it was hardly ever used It was hardly ever used because the number was too low, not because a thor that can switch between AA modes was an inferior unit design to one that only has a single target air attack. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
On April 27 2016 09:05 TheWinks wrote: It was removed because it was hardly ever used. Its primary use was making the thor prioritize ground targets instead of air. It's going to take more than bumping its dps up a bit to make it useful. It was very usefull in many situations, the nerf wasnt needed. They could leave it, but nope, random nerfs/buffs are "better". The new "buffed" thor damage output is way too low. Also with removing the AOE we are forced to make more libs, but libs will do worse vs corruptors. The lib nerf is way too much. Speed Banshees are a nice gimmick, but will force the game into even more mass air games. | ||
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MoonyD
Australia191 Posts
Toss always goes stargate because it's insanely hard to deal with the mobility/harass potential of mutas. Sure, stalkers move fast and can blink, but you can't just traverse from your 3rd or 4th to the main as quick as mutas fly. By the time you get there, the mutas would've killed at least 5 probes if not more. Building cannons would be viable, but then if you over commit to building 3+ cannons, you're behind in production. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Sure, stalkers move fast and can blink, but you can't just traverse from your 3rd or 4th to the main as quick as mutas fly More importantly IMO, you can't take a great trade when you get there. Mutas fight well against stalkers because they scale better and stalker anti-light-AA is very poor. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On April 27 2016 05:47 StarscreamG1 wrote: What about nerf the regen of the mutas insted of all this +bio damage?? Normal units have a 0.27 points per old blizz second, mutas 1 hit point. We can get a middle point there. Common sense? What is this madness?! Blizzard shall have none of it! | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Now people need to learn that Thor Medivac juggle though. And it was never used because you had to use actions to unlock a firemode that needs micro. Like removing auto-charge from Zealots to make them better while micoroed. Game is too fast and rewards macro to much to use actions on micro moves that hurt you unless you invest a certain amount of apm in it. But what they now try is to make Liberators and Thors more different in their attacks. That way the zoning synergy Thors always had together with air units applies to Liberators better. Not sure how everything will work out, but I guess I might test it. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On April 27 2016 10:08 MoonyD wrote: I can't believe the amount of Zergs that are complaining about their race being 'weak'. Has no one watched any pro-games of Zerg just techning straight for Ultras only for them to win instantly? Not to mention lurkers are still a huge pain to deal with in PvZ due to the range nerf of colossus and the high DPS. Toss always goes stargate because it's insanely hard to deal with the mobility/harass potential of mutas. Sure, stalkers move fast and can blink, but you can't just traverse from your 3rd or 4th to the main as quick as mutas fly. By the time you get there, the mutas would've killed at least 5 probes if not more. Building cannons would be viable, but then if you over commit to building 3+ cannons, you're behind in production. It's hard to watch pro zerg games when zergs are getting knocked out of tourneys left and right :D. Toss always go stargate because it's literally an "all you can do" tech path. Getting cheesed by zerg? NP lift roaches/lings or make an oracle/ void ray. Need to harass, NP make an oracle. Needs to contain zerg? NP just make 4-5 phoenixes (and a bonus that you can shut down early game mut muts!). People aren't going stargate because its literally the safest and best thing you can do before getting double robo immortals. If you have problems with lurkers, then make immortals -- those things literally gives 0 fucks about lurkers  . | ||
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
On April 27 2016 08:15 MiniFotToss wrote: so does thor change mean that sky toss can used Void rays against mech now? Does it also mean that Void rays are finally good vs thors now with the charges? What Thors? Who will ever make a Thor without splash? You are just asking to be kited or terrain abused with more mobile ranged air. Maybe it could have a use in TvT? On second thought as soon as your Thors are 1/3 of the way to your opponent's base you just got Tankivac'd in your production. So, who will ever make non-splash Thors? | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On April 27 2016 10:08 MoonyD wrote: I can't believe the amount of Zergs that are complaining about their race being 'weak'. Has no one watched any pro-games of Zerg just techning straight for Ultras only for them to win instantly? Not to mention lurkers are still a huge pain to deal with in PvZ due to the range nerf of colossus and the high DPS. Toss always goes stargate because it's insanely hard to deal with the mobility/harass potential of mutas. Sure, stalkers move fast and can blink, but you can't just traverse from your 3rd or 4th to the main as quick as mutas fly. By the time you get there, the mutas would've killed at least 5 probes if not more. Building cannons would be viable, but then if you over commit to building 3+ cannons, you're behind in production. Teching straight to Ultralisks isn't what it used to be tbh, Terrans usually know how to end the game once they see the transition starting. At least at the pro level I see Zerg's barely breaking even, Dark isn't nearly as dominate in ZvT as he is in ZvP and he's the best Zerg right now, I don't really see any other Zerg's making waves in either match up, so I'm not sure where this "Omg zerg is just crushing face at the pro level" I'd be surprised to see them eeking out more then 50% vs T and P. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
People are going stargate because its literally the safest and best thing you can do before getting double robo immortals You're kinda on the right track there but not quite Stargate is a practically required part of double robo immortal + chargelot play because that army comp cannot effectively play into or adapt to mutalisks | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Zerg who wants to counter drops play have to mutas, but due to the larvas nerf, Terran only have to push on frontal and nearly always win (honestly just send me the link where zerg play LBM and manage to beat the bio/tank push when he doesn't have a strong lead on the early game, i obviously mean kor level games). Or he open roach not to die on the ground and get abused by the unsane mobility of medivac because he has no anti-air. And Terran will get banshee as fast as mutas, with 6 range, cloack, from just armory (just unlock hellbat too !!). Protoss will have a photon canon buff vs mutas/corruptors/locusts/overlord/all the lifted units, but no nerf on phoenix opener ! They will just continue opening phoenix, but it will be even stronger ! And Zerg got want : sh cheaper but more supply. Even if you really want to try SH, phoenix opener shut down SH ! And they are totally useless vs Terran ! And 4 supply, the unit is already afk the most time, now you will have 20 dead supply that shot once per minutes ! Who will get them ? Nobody, still unbind the touch. Speed banshee can't be added to the games, or as Zerg you will just forfeit when you meet a terran (or do a all-in pre-banshee), it's just insanely imbalance, you have nothing as zerg to deal with it at this timing without getting behind. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
Banshee speed upgrade will make ZvT a living hell, probably have to go 2 base muta or die trying. | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
We have enough super fast units in this game already. No more! As it is now the upgrade is gated behind the fusion core which means it's only really bought by T who are going mass air - which is how it should be. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On April 27 2016 15:27 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: SH chance makes no sense, bit cheaper but the supply cost was already too high for it to be viable, your main army is just too weak if you make a few of them. Banshee speed upgrade will make ZvT a living hell, probably have to go 2 base muta or die trying. Pretty much this, even with the speed change on the Fusion Core they are FAST as shit, Mutalisks barely catch them. I'm more along the lines of a Banshee speed buff at armory (which also unlocks Hellbats so wtf) will wildly tip the scales in favor of Terran in the match up, with blind Spire first play or some type of Hydralisk defense, and we all know how building Hydralisks in ZvT goes for the Zerg. What good is letting Corruptors rule the air if they can't even catch the Banshees in the first place? On top of all of that, the Swarm Host change is literally retarded, probably one of the worst changes I've seen come from the balance team, my God man just remove that unit from the game and just be done with it. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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KT_Elwood
Germany1202 Posts
THOR is a big fat giant robot. It has much range, but Single Target high damage BURST means you have to focus fire. But thors are too clumsy to Focusfire, too big +slow to engange something like "Broodlords". Flying untis have the advantage and disadvantage of clumping. Broodlords may or may not l win in a "head to head" fight vs Thors. But Broodlords can out-Flank Thors. While Thors try to move arround with broodlings of the ground to shoot EVERY broodlord is able to fire, same for Tempests. From a 4 Hex 200/200 Supply ball of flying DEATH FROM ABOVE with insane range. Same amount of thors would fill 2 screens, and with any obstacles in the way or even just map topgraphy....GG THOR. Only cool use of Single Target : counter PDD by using a non-projectile attack. What makes EVERYTHING even worse is the Air>Ground targeting of the AI. So 5 stray, non clumped mutas and 30 roaches attack 5 thors, those thors would die, if they waste 20 seconds on killing the mutas. The Thor is too big, too slow, too expensive for Legacy of the voids fast paced 10 Minute Games on 6 bases each. EDIT: IF you want to make the thor usefull..and I am going full out " Make Terran great again" here..then give it the ability to shoot AIr and Ground at the same time. | ||
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SiaBBo
Finland133 Posts
On April 27 2016 01:26 BisuDagger wrote: Blizzard, please let us turn the lights off on the map with a civilian and stack cannons. Thanks. Ahh, the nostalgia. | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On April 27 2016 10:08 MoonyD wrote: I can't believe the amount of Zergs that are complaining about their race being 'weak'. Has no one watched any pro-games of Zerg just techning straight for Ultras only for them to win instantly? Not to mention lurkers are still a huge pain to deal with in PvZ due to the range nerf of colossus and the high DPS. Toss always goes stargate because it's insanely hard to deal with the mobility/harass potential of mutas. Sure, stalkers move fast and can blink, but you can't just traverse from your 3rd or 4th to the main as quick as mutas fly. By the time you get there, the mutas would've killed at least 5 probes if not more. Building cannons would be viable, but then if you over commit to building 3+ cannons, you're behind in production. Probably you think it is ok to build 6+ spore crawlers and still lose 10 drones to the phoneix. | ||
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