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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
The #yearofHarstem has finally begun in earnest after years of prophecy. After a week of interesting games and curious occurrences, Harstem ruled over Shanghai to earn himself 1000 WCS points and a check worth $16,000. This is the first premier tournament that Harstem has ever won, and it comes just at the right time for the handsome Dutch protoss. After capitulating against MaSa in the Ro32 of the WCS Winter Championships, this win gives Harstem a real shot at reaching BlizzCon come the end of the year. He is currently in the Top 8 of WCS points, but he will have to string together a few more good tournaments in order to lock his place.
Harstem's 4-1 finals win over Snute resigned the Norse zerg to consecutive silver medals at WCS Events, and while it's a bitter pill to swallow, he does find himself with an envious amount of WCS Points. With his consistency and level of play, there's a good chance that we'll see the Liquid player in Anaheim come the end of the year. However, conquering his finals hoodoo will be first on Snute's mind.
DreamHack Open: Austin will be the next premier tournament, with $50,000 and 5,000 WCS points on the line.
Current WCS Rankings:
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Awesome! Congrats to Harstem.
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All hail the LipToss, with biceps of iron. The prophecy has been fulfilled, prepare the sacrifices for The Year of Harstem©®!
Commiserations to Snute once more. Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve.
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Where are my Terrans? Stop choking...
Good shit from Harstem tho, ggs.
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On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve.
Undisputed that Snute deserves some WCS Gold Medals, as he is one of the very best players the Circuit has to offer, but "done something the likes of Dream and soO have done" sounds like it is going way to far.
On March 26 2016 21:38 Nayolbi wrote:
Where are my Terrans? Stop choking...
Good shit from Harstem tho, ggs.
Which terrans?
Marinelord is Onlinelord.
Major is Major, promissing, strong, but not bringing it on.
Who else?
Bunny didnt find his form in LotV yet.
Uthermal was always not bad, but never in the top of foreign starcraft.
I had hopes for heromarine, but he is at the moment not even semi-pro, as he is focusing on his school.
I dont know how strong Happy is at the moment, but with mech weak, he looks not too strong.
Kela is strong for his battle region, NA, but needs to proof himself
Dayshi can have single strong runs and fail bitterly the next day.
All in all, terran is the weakest race in the circuit, like it always have been outside of Korea.
And gratz to Harstem, good to see that after years of Harstem, 2016 is finally one.
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The question arises.... Is it to be sick to play sick?
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Wow there were 16k in it for 1st? Congratulations #YearofWelfare
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Congrats Harstem aka Flaming Lips! Traning always pays off in the long run  . GGs!
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4137 Posts
If I am rightly informend, Polt earned Blizzcon ticket. So you should give Polt a green/different backgound in that WCS Standings.
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If only the tournament hadn't been plagued with WCS's shit shadow
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This felt like China vs Europe and the winner was obvious from the get go
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Austria24422 Posts
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kinda surprised but gz to him i guess
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Lol he won 16k for that congrats
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On March 26 2016 21:53 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve. Undisputed that Snute deserves some WCS Gold Medals, as he is one of the very best players the Circuit has to offer, but "done something the likes of Dream and soO have done" sounds like it is going way to far. Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 21:38 Nayolbi wrote:
Where are my Terrans? Stop choking...
Good shit from Harstem tho, ggs. Which terrans? Marinelord is Onlinelord. Major is Major, promissing, strong, but not bringing it on. Who else? Bunny didnt find his form in LotV yet. Uthermal was always not bad, but never in the top of foreign starcraft. I had hopes for heromarine, but he is at the moment not even semi-pro, as he is focusing on his school. I dont know how strong Happy is at the moment, but with mech weak, he looks not too strong. Kela is strong for his battle region, NA, but needs to proof himself Dayshi can have single strong runs and fail bitterly the next day. All in all, terran is the weakest race in the circuit, like it always have been outside of Korea. And gratz to Harstem, good to see that after years of Harstem, 2016 is finally one.
Polt? :D
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On March 27 2016 00:00 Hider wrote:
No spoiler policy?
No spoilers in sports
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On March 27 2016 00:03 OtherWorld wrote:No spoilers in sports
Well in sports people don't go to ESPN to find the vods so they can watch the games.
So nice apples to oranges comparison.
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Congratulations Harstem!! So sad I'm on vacation and missed the games live. Will watch VODs asap.
Oh and by the way: it's the *second* premier StarCraft tournament Harstem won, we shouldn't be forgetting the 2013 DSCL Open of course 
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But the big question remains:
Will Harstem be able to win one map tomorrow? :-)
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Wait a second
$50k for a foreigner tournament?
$14k more than GSL?
meeeeeeeeeeeeeh
I can't be arsed to continually whine about how bad it is to be a KOREAN pro-gamer, when all these foreigners have SO many more opportunities than their Korean counter parts.
It's just flat out unfair
e: brb check if austin really does not allow koreans to participate. maybe i'm wrong
EDIT: OH 50k TOTAL, not first place
NEVER MIND GUYS, SORRY
still though <_< #prayforkorea they legitimately don't get as many opportunities as foreigners do
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On March 27 2016 00:40 Incognoto wrote:
Wait a second
$50k for a foreigner tournament?
$14k more than GSL?
meeeeeeeeeeeeeh
I can't be arsed to continually whine about how bad it is to be a KOREAN pro-gamer, when all these foreigners have SO many more opportunities than their Korean counter parts.
It's just flat out unfair
e: brb check if austin really does not allow koreans to participate. maybe i'm wrong
EDIT: OH 50k TOTAL, not first place
NEVER MIND GUYS, SORRY
still though <_< #prayforkorea they legitimately don't get as many opportunities as foreigners do
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow, they have the opportunity to make fun of WCS ...
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I won't be able to watch the games tomorrow, but I really hope the WCS players don't get ridiculed. Whatever happens, they're going to learn a lot from those series.
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On March 27 2016 00:12 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 00:03 OtherWorld wrote:On March 27 2016 00:00 Hider wrote:
No spoiler policy? No spoilers in sports Well in sports people don't go to ESPN to find the vods so they can watch the games. So nice apples to oranges comparison.
Wasn't this decided back in 2013 or something?
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can't take these tournaments seriously honestly. he didnt even have to play a decent terran to get there. it's all so random -,-
Harstem is a good player, but there is 3 better foreign protosses at least.
Same with PtitDrogo (Dreamhack).
i rly dont like the wcs point system / tournament formats this year.
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Gz Harstem finally a well deserved win
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Snute again second 
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Did anybody watch this? lol
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LOL this was a premier tournament? I'm gonna be honest. I thought this was some random regional/invitational tournament because whenever I looked at the sidebar, the people listed playing in this tournament made it seem like this.
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On March 27 2016 03:01 sc2randomize wrote:
LOL this was a premier tournament? I'm gonna be honest. I thought this was some random regional/invitational tournament because whenever I looked at the sidebar, the people listed playing in this tournament made it seem like this.
This is what StarCraft II is all about in 2016. i mean, Harstem is awesome, but victories like that - in my opinion - weight less than a Ro8 finish in every year before.
So... It's cool that he got a lot of money. But purely result wise, all these accomplishments this year seem so... neglectable.
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On March 27 2016 03:10 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 03:01 sc2randomize wrote:
LOL this was a premier tournament? I'm gonna be honest. I thought this was some random regional/invitational tournament because whenever I looked at the sidebar, the people listed playing in this tournament made it seem like this. This is what StarCraft II is all about in 2016. i mean, Harstem is awesome, but victories like that - in my opinion - weight less than a Ro8 finish in every year before. So... It's cool that he got a lot of money. But purely result wise, all these accomplishments this year seem so... neglectable.
I think what makes this feel bigger for me than a Ro8 before is just the sheer amount of games and different opponents that one has to face. Sure, the competition is weaker, but it has the foreigner equivalency of how tough it is relative for a top Korean in say the ssl.
Also, keep in mind that the top of foreigners is basically low-mid Code A (that can dive into code b or mid code S on the given day.)
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awesome for harstem. I met him at an event once and got a picture and autograph. he was really nice and cool
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On March 27 2016 00:00 Hider wrote:
No spoiler policy?
hasnt existed for a long time
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On March 27 2016 03:36 atrox_ wrote:hasnt existed for a long time
Bad rules I guess, but normally you don't get spoiled when you look for VODS as long as you aren't looking on front page.
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On March 27 2016 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
But the big question remains:
Will Harstem be able to win one map tomorrow? :-) Maybe I'm stupid... but what is tomorrow?
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On March 27 2016 07:46 Jj_82 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
But the big question remains:
Will Harstem be able to win one map tomorrow? :-) Maybe I'm stupid... but what is tomorrow?
All-stars showmatch between the top 4 of the tournament + 2 international invites and the invited Korean team. So Snute, puCK, PtitDrogo, Harstem, iAsonu and TooDming vs Stork, Dear, ByuN, TY, DRG, and ByuL. Though by now it's happening in 5 hours.
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On March 27 2016 07:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 07:46 Jj_82 wrote:On March 27 2016 00:19 Diabolique wrote:
But the big question remains:
Will Harstem be able to win one map tomorrow? :-) Maybe I'm stupid... but what is tomorrow? All-stars showmatch between the top 4 of the tournament + 2 international invites and the invited Korean team. So Snute, puCK, PtitDrogo, Harstem, iAsonu and TooDming vs Stork, Dear, ByuN, TY, DRG, and ByuL. Though by now it's happening in 5 hours. Thx. They're gonna get crushed by the Koreans IMO.
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United States97276 Posts
Sioras was the only one that had a chance of taking Harstem down. he knew all his secrets
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On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve.
Undisputed that Snute deserves some WCS Gold Medals, as he is one of the very best players the Circuit has to offer, but "done something the likes of Dream and soO have done" sounds like it is going way to far.
What do you mean by "going to far"? I was simply trying to offer some consolation, regardless of how getting second place once again might feel (yet it is still an achievement, that consistency of challenging for the top billing).
Are you perhaps misunderstanding what I've said? I've not said anything ignominious of the WCS circuit at all.
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On March 26 2016 21:53 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve. Undisputed that Snute deserves some WCS Gold Medals, as he is one of the very best players the Circuit has to offer, but "done something the likes of Dream and soO have done" sounds like it is going way to far.
Nah when I play tournaments on lan with my friends we compare the terran friend who has lost in semis with innovation, the zerg that lost the finals two times with soo and so on as well 
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On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past.
No.
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I know there isn't a spoiler rule, but there's a clear standard that has been generally followed. Just please try to be more considerate to others for future thread titles.
It's not a huge deal, but I don't think it's that much to ask for, and I don't think it would harm anyone who is looking to read about the results.
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On March 27 2016 00:12 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 00:03 OtherWorld wrote:On March 27 2016 00:00 Hider wrote:
No spoiler policy? No spoilers in sports Well in sports people don't go to ESPN to find the vods so they can watch the games. So nice apples to oranges comparison.
Oh the tears...
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How come these guys are allowed to play in Asian tournaments? I thought these were region locked?
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lol polt the only terran on that list. I think it pretty much proves that terran is the hardest race to play at the pro level.
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On March 27 2016 11:23 ZerglingSoup wrote:
How come these guys are allowed to play in Asian tournaments? I thought these were region locked?
Thats because region lock is just doublespeak for ban koreans.
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Is there's a liquidpedia page for this tournament?
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On March 27 2016 11:38 HugoBallzak wrote:
lol polt the only terran on that list. I think it pretty much proves that terran is the hardest race to play at the pro level.
Yeah its just sad that in the non korean scene you never see terran win anything. Terran barely makes it into the Ro 32 / 16 of tournaments. As you pointed out it just shows that Terran is harder to play and to master than Zerg and Protoss. Thanks David
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On March 27 2016 19:32 OzhMa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 11:38 HugoBallzak wrote:
lol polt the only terran on that list. I think it pretty much proves that terran is the hardest race to play at the pro level. Yeah its just sad that in the non korean scene you never see terran win anything. Terran barely makes it into the Ro 32 / 16 of tournaments. As you pointed out it just shows that Terran is harder to play and to master than Zerg and Protoss. Thanks David
the bait is real
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France12905 Posts
On March 27 2016 11:38 HugoBallzak wrote:
lol polt the only terran on that list. I think it pretty much proves that terran is the hardest race to play at the pro level.
Not just at pro level
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Congrats to Harstem, he looked very sharp.
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Congrats to Harstem.
That said, this is the 2nd time recently that huge tournament spoilers have been posted on the home page. It makes me afraid to check the headlines, and I'm not sure what the idea is behind it. I love TL but I come here as my source for SC2 action, not spoilers.
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On March 27 2016 21:27 JAG.war wrote:
Congrats to Harstem.
That said, this is the 2nd time recently that huge tournament spoilers have been posted on the home page. It makes me afraid to check the headlines, and I'm not sure what the idea is behind it. I love TL but I come here as my source for SC2 action, not spoilers.
dont go to a sc2 news site if you are not interested in sc2 news. easy enough
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Congratulations to Harstem, I really like him, but let's face it...
In order to win this championship, he had to beat Has, puCK and finally Snute. Beating Snute is quite impressive, but Has and puCK to win a championship? That's... <fill in your prefered word>
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On March 27 2016 23:25 sd_andeh wrote:
Congratulations to Harstem, I really like him, but let's face it...
In order to win this championship, he had to beat Has, puCK and finally Snute. Beating Snute is quite impressive, but Has and puCK to win a championship? That's... <fill in your prefered word>
I'm not someone that is dismayed by the new WCS changes, and I'm looking froward to seeing foreigners at Blizzcon, but yeah that was perhaps an underwhelming set of opponents bar Snute. In Harstem's defence he did play well in the finals and showed what until now he only hinted at. For me it was disappointing Nerchio and Snute played each other so early on.
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On March 27 2016 23:25 sd_andeh wrote:
Congratulations to Harstem, I really like him, but let's face it...
In order to win this championship, he had to beat Has, puCK and finally Snute. Beating Snute is quite impressive, but Has and puCK to win a championship? That's... <fill in your prefered word>
Did you watch how Snute actually played versus Harstem though? Winning against a Snute on that level didn't require too much.
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I wonder if we can start using these foreigner only tournaments as an excuse to balance whine and call for changes to be made because it is pretty obvious that terran is by far the weakest race at the moment.
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On March 28 2016 01:12 HugoBallzak wrote:
I wonder if we can start using these foreigner only tournaments as an excuse to balance whine and call for changes to be made because it is pretty obvious that terran is by far the weakest race at the moment.
Terran does fine in Korea so I doubt you'll get anywhere with that.
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Congrats to HashtagHarstem!
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Great job!! Congrats Harstem!
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On March 27 2016 11:39 HugoBallzak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 11:23 ZerglingSoup wrote:How come these guys are allowed to play in Asian tournaments? I thought these were region locked? Thats because region lock is just doublespeak for ban koreans.
Seems really unreasonable. I wonder if EU/China is gonna have a similar slope to kori/rest.
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Congrats to my countryman winning this!
Haven't been following sc2, so I looked up the liquipedia page... Where are all the Koreans? Don't they get travelling money to go to Shanghai (and Norwegians/Dutchies do?), or is this a non-Korean only event for some reason? Or did Korea stop playing sc2 altogether? I hope he beat them fair and square, but I can't really believe it
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On March 28 2016 18:54 nepeta wrote:Congrats to my countryman winning this! Haven't been following sc2, so I looked up the liquipedia page... Where are all the Koreans? Don't they get travelling money to go to Shanghai (and Norwegians/Dutchies do?), or is this a non-Korean only event for some reason? Or did Korea stop playing sc2 altogether? I hope he beat them fair and square, but I can't really believe it
All WCS events are region-locked. Koreans can only play in them if they have a valid visa. So there's like 4 Koreans who play in WCS atm, and 3 of them skipped this.This also includes Dreamhacks and IEMs.
High level Koreans now only play in Korea (and at Blizzcon). Or in what Blizzard dubbed "Global Events". Which will probably be 3 or less throughout the entire year seeing as it's March and we've only vaguely heard that one is in the planning.
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On March 28 2016 01:00 D-light wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 23:25 sd_andeh wrote:
Congratulations to Harstem, I really like him, but let's face it...
In order to win this championship, he had to beat Has, puCK and finally Snute. Beating Snute is quite impressive, but Has and puCK to win a championship? That's... <fill in your prefered word> Did you watch how Snute actually played versus Harstem though? Winning against a Snute on that level didn't require too much.
I agree. I'm very happy for Harstem, he's always been a cool guy, but it feels weird to have a foreigner win a premier tournament this way, like "premier" has been watered out so much with all the new changes its more like a small LAN/major. But a win is a win is a win, heres to hoping foreigners will put up a fight at blizzcon!
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On March 28 2016 19:09 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2016 18:54 nepeta wrote:Congrats to my countryman winning this! Haven't been following sc2, so I looked up the liquipedia page... Where are all the Koreans? Don't they get travelling money to go to Shanghai (and Norwegians/Dutchies do?), or is this a non-Korean only event for some reason? Or did Korea stop playing sc2 altogether? I hope he beat them fair and square, but I can't really believe it All WCS events are region-locked. Koreans can only play in them if they have a valid visa. So there's like 4 Koreans who play in WCS atm, and 3 of them skipped this.This also includes Dreamhacks and IEMs. High level Koreans now only play in Korea (and at Blizzcon). Or in what Blizzard dubbed "Global Events". Which will probably be 3 or less throughout the entire year seeing as it's March and we've only vaguely heard that one is in the planning.
That's pretty bad. Thanks for the info.
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I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete.
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On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete.
The idea of it is that your supporting someone local.
You can live in China or Europe and still cheer on your local basketball team in the local League, even if they did not face any American basketball teams.
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On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete.
"The Koreans" is such a vague statement considering the context. The Koreans that were winning these tournaments could by no means be considered the best in the world for said accomplishment either. In fact oftentimes they were specifically known for not being the best in the world at all. To me those accomplishments in terms of "who did they beat" were less valuable and without much meaning, than knowing someone beat the entirety of the field outside of Korea (in theory). The best in the world is decided in Korea regardless of system.
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On March 29 2016 01:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete. "The Koreans" is such a vague statement considering the context. The Koreans that were winning these tournaments could by no means be considered the best in the world for said accomplishment either. In fact oftentimes they were specifically known for not being the best in the world at all. To me those accomplishments in terms of "who did they beat" were less valuable and without much meaning, than knowing someone beat the entirety of the field outside of Korea (in theory).
I don't think anyone ever claimed that the Koreans winning the 3rd party tournaments were doing better than the ones winning the main Koreans events. In fact it was always controversial that some koreans made it into blizzcon largely on the back of results from tournaments outside of korea but at the very least the system actually allowed the best 16 or so players to make it to blizzcon.
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On March 29 2016 01:34 HugoBallzak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 01:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete. "The Koreans" is such a vague statement considering the context. The Koreans that were winning these tournaments could by no means be considered the best in the world for said accomplishment either. In fact oftentimes they were specifically known for not being the best in the world at all. To me those accomplishments in terms of "who did they beat" were less valuable and without much meaning, than knowing someone beat the entirety of the field outside of Korea (in theory). I don't think anyone ever claimed that the Koreans winning the 3rd party tournaments were doing better than the ones winning the main Koreans events. In fact it was always controversial that some koreans made it into blizzcon largely on the back of results from tournaments outside of korea but at the very least the system actually allowed the best 16 or so players to make it to blizzcon.
I understand and agree that is exactly what I'm trying to say as well. I'm not introducing a new argument by saying that. My opinion with that in mind is that these tournaments now have an actual title and arguably more meaningful prestige (again just my opinion) to it, by establishing who is the best outside of Korea, instead of being stuck in this grey area where nobody really knew what it meant.
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On March 29 2016 01:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete. "The Koreans" is such a vague statement considering the context. The Koreans that were winning these tournaments could by no means be considered the best in the world for said accomplishment either. In fact oftentimes they were specifically known for not being the best in the world at all. To me those accomplishments in terms of "who did they beat" were less valuable and without much meaning, than knowing someone beat the entirety of the field outside of Korea (in theory). The best in the world is decided in Korea regardless of system.
Yes, the Koreans who regularly went to those tournament weren't necessarily the best, but then again we did see cj herO and other Koreans go to IEMs and such tournaments which actually made the tournament very much legit. That is not possible now, because they are forbidden to participate even if they wanted to and could pay their own flights.
What makes it even more ridiculous is that the event was played in China, and EU/NA players should be region locked from that if anything, not the almost-neighbors Koreans.
It all just kind of pisses one off, and it's all incredibly racist.
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Super happy for Harstem! Hope he will make Anaheim.
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HARSTEMMMMM!!!!!!! WOOOT Congratz on the win!!!
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It's beyond embarrassing to call this a premier event w/ any semblance of a straight face. The overall talent for the tournament (notably from the Chinese hosts) was very mediocre. The brackets all look way easier than most low level online qualifiers.
This is pretty much the exact outcome many of us feared w/ the new WCS changes. And I didn't even consider initially, the absurdity of foreigners playing WCS events in Asia.
But props to Harstem for claiming the latest welfare handout (that winner's check of $16k is nothing to sneeze at).
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On March 29 2016 11:09 Orr wrote:
It's beyond embarrassing to call this a premier event w/ any semblance of a straight face.
the promoter has the prize money. the promoter can call it whatever they want because its their show and their money.
this is a premiere event.
congratz to Harstem.
lots of promoters have done 10,000 times worse things than create an event with a weak field. Don King is a convicted murderer and books convicted rapists for his shows. How does Don King manage to do this you ask? $.
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On March 26 2016 21:38 Nayolbi wrote:
Where are my Terrans? Stop choking...
Good shit from Harstem tho, ggs.
Because protoss and zerg are to strong against terran
User was warned for this post
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On March 29 2016 01:05 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete. The idea of it is that your supporting someone local. You can live in China or Europe and still cheer on your local basketball team in the local League, even if they did not face any American basketball teams.
that would make sense if the tournaments would be region-locked for specific regions, for example a tournament with only EU players or only NA players. when only 1 country is excluded from the competition it's not a local tournament.
An american for example is about as local a player for me as a korean and yet he can participate.
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yeahhhh Kevin!
I knew you could do it, my little padawan!
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I think this is not the place to bash on WCS. Harstem won and while it might not have been vs. a bunch of Koreans or Koreigners, it still was a huge win.
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On March 26 2016 21:53 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 21:37 DSK wrote:
Despite being defeated at two consecutive finals, you've done something the likes of Dream and soO have done in the past. Keeping pushing, you'll surely get the gold you deserve. Undisputed that Snute deserves some WCS Gold Medals, as he is one of the very best players the Circuit has to offer, but "done something the likes of Dream and soO have done" sounds like it is going way to far. Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 21:38 Nayolbi wrote:
Where are my Terrans? Stop choking...
Good shit from Harstem tho, ggs. Which terrans? Marinelord is Onlinelord. Major is Major, promissing, strong, but not bringing it on. Who else? Bunny didnt find his form in LotV yet. Uthermal was always not bad, but never in the top of foreign starcraft. I had hopes for heromarine, but he is at the moment not even semi-pro, as he is focusing on his school. I dont know how strong Happy is at the moment, but with mech weak, he looks not too strong. Kela is strong for his battle region, NA, but needs to proof himself Dayshi can have single strong runs and fail bitterly the next day. All in all, terran is the weakest race in the circuit, like it always have been outside of Korea.
Without getting a balance whine (or getting insta-banned just for asking. Maybe the reason is too obvious, that asking for it is a received like a provocation. But since the winrates, as absolute prove of balance show us the game is fairly balanced (and not yet figured out meta-wise), it cannot be balance (on a lower level then korean GM) - so what is it?), noone could ever explain me why that is the case
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On March 29 2016 20:01 boxerfred wrote:
I think this is not the place to bash on WCS. Harstem won and while it might not have been vs. a bunch of Koreans or Koreigners, it still was a huge win.
Exactly. I like what Nazgul said, the WCS Circuit finally has a meaning, we get to know who is the best outside of Korea. On that day it was Harstem, which is something he and we should celebrate!
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On March 29 2016 22:32 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 20:01 boxerfred wrote:
I think this is not the place to bash on WCS. Harstem won and while it might not have been vs. a bunch of Koreans or Koreigners, it still was a huge win. Exactly. I like what Nazgul said, the WCS Circuit finally has a meaning, we get to know who is the best outside of Korea. On that day it was Harstem, which is something he and we should celebrate!
Yep, I am glad for him. He seems such a nice guy.
Is there a Liquipedia entry to see whom he played against and some VODs maybe? Cannot find it in the OP
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On March 29 2016 22:40 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 22:32 Musicus wrote:On March 29 2016 20:01 boxerfred wrote:
I think this is not the place to bash on WCS. Harstem won and while it might not have been vs. a bunch of Koreans or Koreigners, it still was a huge win. Exactly. I like what Nazgul said, the WCS Circuit finally has a meaning, we get to know who is the best outside of Korea. On that day it was Harstem, which is something he and we should celebrate! Yep, I am glad for him. He seems such a nice guy. Is there a Liquipedia entry to see whom he played against and some VODs maybe? Cannot find it in the OP
Yep, here it is! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gold_Series_International_2016
Edit: And here are vods https://www.twitch.tv/neotvbaoxue/profile
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On March 29 2016 22:43 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 22:40 Rollora wrote:On March 29 2016 22:32 Musicus wrote:On March 29 2016 20:01 boxerfred wrote:
I think this is not the place to bash on WCS. Harstem won and while it might not have been vs. a bunch of Koreans or Koreigners, it still was a huge win. Exactly. I like what Nazgul said, the WCS Circuit finally has a meaning, we get to know who is the best outside of Korea. On that day it was Harstem, which is something he and we should celebrate! Yep, I am glad for him. He seems such a nice guy. Is there a Liquipedia entry to see whom he played against and some VODs maybe? Cannot find it in the OP Yep, here it is! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gold_Series_International_2016Edit: And here are vods https://www.twitch.tv/neotvbaoxue/profile
You just won my heart ♥
Didn't know it was the gold series. Confusing tournament title is confusing
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On March 29 2016 17:15 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 01:05 lestye wrote:On March 29 2016 00:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I'm not going to lie to you guys... When I saw this post I thought to myself "Yeah, but he didn't play any Koreans..."
These wins to a viewer like me, mean nothing. The WCS system is dumb now because when a foreigner wins, people are celebrating ... but who did they win against?
If the weakest NBA team played in March Madness and won, this is what it would be like to me - Great, you won a tournament full of people you should be able to beat. Let me know when you actually beat someone of worth and I will champion you. But beating foreigners is still beating foreigners. The Koreans are the best and we all know that yet we pretend this means nothing?
At the end of the year, when the Koreans finally face foreigners and absolutely destroy them, these victories will mean nothing because they meant nothing to start with if the best competition can't compete. The idea of it is that your supporting someone local. You can live in China or Europe and still cheer on your local basketball team in the local League, even if they did not face any American basketball teams. that would make sense if the tournaments would be region-locked for specific regions, for example a tournament with only EU players or only NA players. when only 1 country is excluded from the competition it's not a local tournament. An american for example is about as local a player for me as a korean and yet he can participate.
You have a Korean Reigion and an International region. The idea is to build up infrastructure, personality, and the like for Non-Koreans because they've been so dominant throughout the years. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that given the state of International players and Koreans.
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On March 29 2016 16:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 11:09 Orr wrote:
It's beyond embarrassing to call this a premier event w/ any semblance of a straight face. the promoter has the prize money. the promoter can call it whatever they want because its their show and their money. this is a premiere event. congratz to Harstem. lots of promoters have done 10,000 times worse things than create an event with a weak field. Don King is a convicted murderer and books convicted rapists for his shows. How does Don King manage to do this you ask? $.
Your above attempt at an analogy isn't even worth discussing. Although it's definitely one of the weirder/more troubling ones I've ever heard for anything on TL.
Did I ever state anywhere that the promoters couldn't call it whatever they want? Heck, the recent WCS Katowice (Winter Circuit Championship) billed itself as having the best 32 players in the world. Which of course got deservedly ridiculed, but that's completely within their right to do.
The problem is when Liquipedia (and TL) classify it as a premier event. Which is a complete affront to legitimate ones from the past, that had much more fair, open, and most importantly, high level competition. Not that it matters to those of us able to see through promotional material, and call things for what they are (the more invested and knowledgeable folks here). But many casual fans may be severely mislead when evaluating players and their achievements.
Money doesn't magically transform something into what it's not. Players and the level of competition do. You could have given Harstem $100k (same as Blizzcon) for winning, and that wouldn't change a thing, for the more informed here. And this tournament was far, far weaker than any Code A qualifier. And a grand total of zero, top level players were able to participate.
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Harsten, Harsten, Harsten Wuuuuuuuuu !!!! Harsten #TheYearofHarsten
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/lichter/misc/wcsstandings.png)
