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On March 14 2016 04:07 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:04 Clear World wrote:On March 14 2016 03:56 stuchiu wrote:On March 14 2016 02:48 TwiggyWan wrote:
The change would probably be good but visually the unit does not look armored at all... Tell me why a CC cant land on a burrowed ling hten. Just because there exist some situations in which gameplay interaction has to go aganist visual presenation, that doesn't mean visual presentation should be something ignore just for 'balance' sake. Visual presentation is desired to quickly clue in the players to what is happeneing or what this unit. Just imagine making Parasitic Bomb look like guardian shield (a bubble sphere). It would be confusing on why it is even dealing damage anyone. Or what about, make the Thor a light unit. If the point of the tag is for balance sake, why bother giving a name that implies a certain apperence. why is a hellbat healable by a medivac and a hellion not?
I'm just going to repeat this again in bold: Just because there exist some situations in which gameplay interaction has to go aganist visual presenation, that doesn't mean visual presentation should be something ignore just for 'balance' sake.
This is what I'm saying. This doesn't mean I support everything that is already in the game. You can keep putting up examples, but that doesn't change anything.
But to answer you new question. Hellbat looks similar to a Barrack unit, while the Hellion clearly looks like a vechical. And this is the opposite example compare to the CC landing on a burrowed ling.
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Norway839 Posts
Another fun fix would be if Guardian Shield made Probes immune to damage :D
This change is great and I hope the design team agrees with the players on this one. Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE/Lilbow next time
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On March 14 2016 02:48 thePunGun wrote:Show nested quote +I thought about possible changes to improve this match-up, and I believe this is the best “next step” that also wouldn't affect the non-mirror match-ups. As much as I wanna believe this, it can't be that easy. Every change comes with a price and just saying there is none won't make it true...
1. Will take it less hits from viking.
2. Will take more hits from thor.
3. The two above are irrelevant as thors are a myth in pvt and vikings by made very rarely.
4. That is all.
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Great post, hope Blizzard follows this up! =D
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On March 14 2016 04:12 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Another fun fix would be if Guardian Shield made Probes immune to damage :D
This change is great and I hope the design team agrees with the players on this one. Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE next time
You have the scariest balance changes in mind.
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Norway839 Posts
On March 14 2016 04:13 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:12 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Another fun fix would be if Guardian Shield made Probes immune to damage :D
This change is great and I hope the design team agrees with the players on this one. Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE next time You have the scariest balance changes in mind.
nothing wrong about having to kill the sentry first :s
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 14 2016 04:12 Clear World wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:07 stuchiu wrote:On March 14 2016 04:04 Clear World wrote:On March 14 2016 03:56 stuchiu wrote:On March 14 2016 02:48 TwiggyWan wrote:
The change would probably be good but visually the unit does not look armored at all... Tell me why a CC cant land on a burrowed ling hten. Just because there exist some situations in which gameplay interaction has to go aganist visual presenation, that doesn't mean visual presentation should be something ignore just for 'balance' sake. Visual presentation is desired to quickly clue in the players to what is happeneing or what this unit. Just imagine making Parasitic Bomb look like guardian shield (a bubble sphere). It would be confusing on why it is even dealing damage anyone. Or what about, make the Thor a light unit. If the point of the tag is for balance sake, why bother giving a name that implies a certain apperence. why is a hellbat healable by a medivac and a hellion not? I'm just going to repeat this again in bold: J ust because there exist some situations in which gameplay interaction has to go aganist visual presenation, that doesn't mean visual presentation should be something ignore just for 'balance' sake. This is what I'm saying. This doesn't mean I support everything that is already in the game. You can keep putting up examples, but that doesn't change anything. But to answer you new question. Hellbat looks similar to a Barrack unit, while the Hellion clearly looks like a vechical. And this is the opposite example compare to the CC landing on a burrowed ling.
it looks more like a thor than a bio unit to me.
The oracle doesn't even look like it would be a light unit to me either.
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On March 14 2016 04:13 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:12 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Another fun fix would be if Guardian Shield made Probes immune to damage :D
This change is great and I hope the design team agrees with the players on this one. Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE next time You have the scariest balance changes in mind.
Seriously, Snute thinks so different, he always suggests crazy changes that seem really fun. Would love him on the design team.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 14 2016 04:12 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 02:48 thePunGun wrote:I thought about possible changes to improve this match-up, and I believe this is the best “next step” that also wouldn't affect the non-mirror match-ups. As much as I wanna believe this, it can't be that easy. Every change comes with a price and just saying there is none won't make it true... 1. Will take it less hits from viking. 2. Will take more hits from thor. 3. The two above are irrelevant as thors are a myth in pvt and vikings by made very rarely. 4. That is all.
You don't make vikings to kill oracles but you need them late game to kill tempests where you also might see some oracles. Of course, vikings killing oracles is more of an accident than anything else.
On March 14 2016 04:12 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE/Lilbow next time
I mean honestly, I doubt the highest level Korean players find phoenix wars overly problematic and defending oracles without phoenixes overly hard.
Also this nerf is going to lead to more opportunities for casters to make lame ball puns about disruptor bowling, isn't it?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Do Protoss players like playing phoenix wars?
One of the concepts behind the deisgn/balance that Blizzard have stated is making the game more fun to play on all levels.
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![[image loading]](http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/6/6f/Marauder_SC2_Art1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100717162629)
![[image loading]](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/4/48/Hellbat_SC2-HotS_Art4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141219080243)
You're seriously going to tell me that these two images don't share decent similar to each other. Because the Maraduar looks just as much of a mech unit in comparison to the hellbat.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I also think Marauders should be able to be repaired by scvs visually.
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Canada8160 Posts
Ok enough of the stupid hellbat/hellion discussion, talk about the topic at hand please.
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On March 14 2016 04:19 Clear World wrote:You're seriously going to tell me that these two images don't share decent similar to each other. Because the Maraduar looks just as much of a mech unit in comparison to the hellbat.
The look vs status has already been bastardized heavily in SC2. Ravager/Queen aren't armored and ghost isn't light.
If hellbats were armored, those marine hellbat pushes off 1.5 bases would be borderline unstoppable since hellbats can 1v1 roaches without any support. I don't think making the oracle armored would suddenly confuse everyone as to why it doesn't have a anti-deer grill on the front of it to show how big and bad it is
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I don't think making the oracle armored would suddenly confuse everyone as to why it doesn't have a anti-deer grill on the front of it to show how big and bad it is
It definitly wouldn't. It's long past the time in which tags actually meant how they visually looked.
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You need to add one more option to vote. I don't care because i'm zerg.
Protoss need some mechanic to stop phenixes like fungle does or red archone ability in bw. It will be micro involved. But it will affect to other match ups...
Actualy protoss have this mechanic - feedback. It one-shot phenix with full energy. But yes, it is hard to use it especialy on pro level.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
If people are confused about a tag change just put an anti-deer grill on the front and be done with it :D
You need to add one more option to vote. I don't care because i'm zerg.
With zerg outnumbering protoss, that could be the #1 option on every poll. In the long term, more people would quit protoss & reroll to zerg so you'd have to play more zvz's - something that you probably care about 
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Simple yet effective change, no reason not to go through.
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Canada8160 Posts
On March 14 2016 04:23 zizerg wrote:
You need to add one more option to vote. I don't care because i'm zerg.
You can just abstain
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On March 14 2016 04:14 Liquid`Snute wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:13 HellHound wrote:On March 14 2016 04:12 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Another fun fix would be if Guardian Shield made Probes immune to damage :D
This change is great and I hope the design team agrees with the players on this one. Hoping for input from KR players and ShoWTimE next time You have the scariest balance changes in mind. nothing wrong about having to kill the sentry first :s
WC3 Spirit Link on the units underneath the Guardian Shield. They share 50% of the damage taken, mb the Sentry itself could be excluded from this Link
Edit: They could also share only their Shields.
But SC2 doesn't need more death balls.
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EPT
