EPTI really don't think Siege Tanks can find a sweet spot without allowing Medivacs to pick up Sieged Tanks for the much important evacuation the unit needs in LotV, however, I'll be happy to be proved wrong.
Call to Action: February 23 Balance Testing - Page 2
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ejozl
Denmark3495 Posts
I really don't think Siege Tanks can find a sweet spot without allowing Medivacs to pick up Sieged Tanks for the much important evacuation the unit needs in LotV, however, I'll be happy to be proved wrong. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On February 24 2016 16:47 Ctesias wrote: What worries me with these proposed changes is how Terran will fare. A small buff to tank damage hardly compensates for the major nerfs. PvZ is one of the worst it has ever been lately and Blizzard nerfed Protoss twice. I don't think balance is their priority right now. | ||
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
 But I don´t think the tank dmg buff is enough to make up for that. | ||
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esdf
Croatia736 Posts
hope tankivacs stay even after this test. | ||
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Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
I figured that would stay but when the tank was dropped it would just be un-sieged. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
-What we like in tankivacs : good micro is rewarded, you can save your tanks in a lot of situations, making the tank less of an timing-attack unit, because they are not dead as fuck as soon as you go out on the map with them (that was the previous situation, except TvT ). Tankivacs are also nice vs powerful Z and P timings/all-in, the mobility is kinda needed versus corrosive bile/warp-prism/nydus. -What we don't like in tankivacs : TvT. That seems like there is now an 'offensive advantage', very frustrating to play, plus, forced to keep all the medivacs with the tanks, and forced to scan constantly your opponent even if you are in a kinda nice defensive set-up, multi-task is dying in macro TvT. It's death-ball-micro vs death-ball micro. The glory days of TvT, from WoL to HotS, was possible thanks to the local defensive advantage brought by Siege Tanks. With even sized armies, 80% of an sieged army could hold 100% of the opponent army : so, counter-attacks was a powerful play, punishing hard F2-deathball play. Repeat this process recursively, and we got the glorious late-WoL Korean TvT, with 4+ hot fighting areas on the map, increasing positional and strategical play ! -Proposed Solution: Leave the full-cargo Siege Tank Pick-up, but drop it unsieged ! This way we keep the good parts and avoid the flows ! Poll: What do you think this proposed change ? Good Idea (53) Bad Idea (31) 84 total votes Your vote: What do you think this proposed change ? edit > Gowerly > yeah cross-posted. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
On February 24 2016 16:56 KrazyTrumpet wrote: It's not a "small" buff, though. And specifically the damage buff helps tanks be better vs units like Marauders that were a particular threat to them. It is a small buff considering you won't be able to pick them up. The damage hardly matters beyond TvT if you can't save them from Ravager shots, for instance. I can see us returning to the tank not being used at all outside of TvT with these changes. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On February 24 2016 16:21 Seeker wrote: I'm going to be completely honest here and say that I think tankivacs should stay in the game. The concept was highly criticized at first but I think enough time has passed that players have learned to adapt to it and furthermore, utilize the strategy to its most optimal level. Just look at aLive vs TY during yesterday's afreeca vs KT match. That match was so invigorating and exciting. I think keeping tankivacs will make for much more action packed games in the long run. Exciting to you as a viewer but not a great experience when you play it. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20328 Posts
The entire design of the siege tank is based around strength at the cost of immobility - to take away strength in order to balance it while being super mobile is an insult to that design. It is a small buff considering you won't be able to pick them up. The biggest strengths of the siege tank in the past were in the WOL metas, pre-widow mine etc. Marine-tank vs zerg. It was heavily used in the era of TvP dominance (1-1-1 etc). It was a core unit in TvT FOREVER. The tanks DPS has been increased by ~23-28% depending on what it's shooting at since then and it no longer requires an upgrade to siege, those are massive buffs and it's more than ready to break out into being an extremely powerful unit with these changes. New counters exist and may be too accessible but if that's the case and even a super buffed tank doesn't work, then it's an obvious and easy thing to fix - it sounds like it will only be an issue vs Zerg if at all, and zerg is a little wonky against more than just terran at the moment. Tanks will still be used vs terran and protoss, 100%. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On February 24 2016 16:21 Seeker wrote: I'm going to be completely honest here and say that I think tankivacs should stay in the game. The concept was highly criticized at first but I think enough time has passed that players have learned to adapt to it and furthermore, utilize the strategy to its most optimal level. Just look at aLive vs TY during yesterday's afreeca vs KT match. That match was so invigorating and exciting. I think keeping tankivacs will make for much more action packed games in the long run. I completely agree, although I don't believe there is a majority thinking like you and me. I am also afraid that a stronger tank without the mobility of tankivacs and its ability to save the tank would encourage turtle play for mech player and terran not moving out on the map, which might leads to a similar way of playing as TvZ WoL during the broodLord infestor era, with only one big marine tank attack to hit a pre-Hive timing from terran. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 24 2016 20:24 Destructicon wrote: I can't believe they aren't even considering removing Nydus Invulnerability, like seriously wtf, we've already seen some absolutely atrocious games thanks to it. yeah, I really don't like it at all. | ||
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Elentos
55578 Posts
On February 24 2016 20:13 WrathSCII wrote: Exciting to you as a viewer but not a great experience when you play it. I'm having more fun with marine/tank TvT than I did in HotS. I hated TvT in HotS until I switched to playing mech every time. And the reason for that was that all marine/tank vs marine/tank ended up being was dropping 6 or 8 or however many medivacs full of units in your opponent's main. At least with tankivacs I can get together a good defense in my own main base. I guess if this change goes through it'll be back to mech every TvT for me but I'm not sure how well that's gonna work on the new economy and with liberators. But people have to stop thinking that removing tank pickups = return of WoL TvT. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On February 24 2016 20:24 Destructicon wrote: I can't believe they aren't even considering removing Nydus Invulnerability, like seriously wtf, we've already seen some absolutely atrocious games thanks to it. Definitely agree on this one. Immunity has always been a really bad feature in gaming (e.g. Diablo 2, unplayable in single player mode). Resistence >>> Immunity. | ||
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J. Corsair
United States470 Posts
And I love tankivacs, it has made me interested again and actually is what convinced me to purchase this iteration. IF they want to remove the tankivac, that is simply not enough of a damage increase. There needs to be either more damage or buff to shot speed, or a decrease in the time required to seige and unseige as well. I honestly think if they remove the tankivac, you can say goodbye to seeing the tank regularly except in TvT... mech will still not be viable except maybe in TvT (and who wants to see mech when you can see Alive vs TY), and with the reduction in liberator range Terrans will be back to MMMM just like HotS. So might as well just revert the game, apparently Blizzard is uncomfortable with change. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3495 Posts
Remove the ability to pick up Sieged Tanks, but give the ability to pick up Siege Tanks when they're in the animation of either becoming Sieged; or becoming Unsieged. The outcome will always be: Siege Tank is Unsieged inside the Medivac. So you like cancel the action, or speed up the action, instead of changing mode instantly inside the Medivac. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
Heavy turtling in general is alot harder with LotV mining (not impossible, but definately not easier than hots). And with a few exceptions, really no one turtles because they like their deathball mech army. People turtle with mech because moving out is instant suicide, and late game skyterran actually does work. So turtling with mech is only an intermediate step until skyterran. If this deathball army is too strong, then you should nerf that, and not blame it on mech. | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2267 Posts
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