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On February 26 2016 02:48 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 02:45 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On February 26 2016 00:25 RavingRaver wrote:
I've been testing the balance test map on TvZ and TvT. In TvZ, bio tank is still strong. The increased damage and weakened ravager helps compensate. I don't think Mech is viable in TvZ with this change though. TvT is way better, marine tank vs. marine tank has more emphasis on positioning like in HotS.
I think Mech is viable in TvT with this change and Bio is still capable of tearing apart a Mech player. I would not be opposed to allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode and dropped off in tank mode only if the increased siege damage is retained. I don't think they will become OP, probably makes TvZ more balanced if anything IMO. Maybe but you can't nerf ravagers when you can still pickup tanks That's entirely debatable. Ravagers are strong units and even with Tankivac, the Tank is relegated strictly to supporting roles. What you mean to say is that you can't nerf the Ravager with pick-uppable Tanks without fundamentally altering the landscape of TvZ. That's probably true!
Strong? Yes. Too strong? No.
The nerf is only neccesary because it would be too easy to kill tanks with ravagers without tankivac.
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LoL watch the terran's wiggle and squirm. You guys are due for a nerf, zerg and Toss got nerf'd last patch, now it's your turn, muahahhahaha
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On February 26 2016 02:45 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 00:25 RavingRaver wrote:
I've been testing the balance test map on TvZ and TvT. In TvZ, bio tank is still strong. The increased damage and weakened ravager helps compensate. I don't think Mech is viable in TvZ with this change though. TvT is way better, marine tank vs. marine tank has more emphasis on positioning like in HotS.
I think Mech is viable in TvT with this change and Bio is still capable of tearing apart a Mech player. I would not be opposed to allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode and dropped off in tank mode only if the increased siege damage is retained. I don't think they will become OP, probably makes TvZ more balanced if anything IMO. Maybe but you can't nerf ravagers when you can still pickup tanks
I think it might be possible to simplify the proposed balance patch by allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode, dropped off in tank mode with the damage buff to 40/20 in conjunction to not nerfing the ravager and not nerfing the liberator. However, the main problem with this is that ZvP balance will not improve.
On February 26 2016 03:09 BazookaBenji1 wrote:
LoL watch the terran's wiggle and squirm. You guys are due for a nerf, zerg and Toss got nerf'd last patch, now it's your turn, muahahhahaha
It's a redesign rather than a nerf or a buff.
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On February 26 2016 02:48 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 02:45 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On February 26 2016 00:25 RavingRaver wrote:
I've been testing the balance test map on TvZ and TvT. In TvZ, bio tank is still strong. The increased damage and weakened ravager helps compensate. I don't think Mech is viable in TvZ with this change though. TvT is way better, marine tank vs. marine tank has more emphasis on positioning like in HotS.
I think Mech is viable in TvT with this change and Bio is still capable of tearing apart a Mech player. I would not be opposed to allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode and dropped off in tank mode only if the increased siege damage is retained. I don't think they will become OP, probably makes TvZ more balanced if anything IMO. Maybe but you can't nerf ravagers when you can still pickup tanks That's entirely debatable. Ravagers are strong units and even with Tankivac, the Tank is relegated strictly to supporting roles. What you mean to say is that you can't nerf the Ravager with pick-uppable Tanks without fundamentally altering the landscape of TvZ. That's probably true!
lol TvZ is pretty balanced as it is right now. Nerf ravager without it and Terran is probably going to become favored in the match up.
Flying tanks are stupid anyway, I am all for removing the flying tanks and buffing their damage, something they've needed for awhile. They should not get both.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
As far as ZvP goes, corrosive bile damage is not usually a big deal i think
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On February 26 2016 04:11 Cyro wrote:
As far as ZvP goes, corrosive bile damage is not usually a big deal i think
Can't tell if you're serious or not... Early ravagers are a HUGE point of concern, because it allows Zerg to snipe pylons super fast and from a long range.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On February 26 2016 05:21 atstapley wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 04:11 Cyro wrote:
As far as ZvP goes, corrosive bile damage is not usually a big deal i think Can't tell if you're serious or not... Early ravagers are a HUGE point of concern, because it allows Zerg to snipe pylons super fast and from a long range.
Zerg can still snipe pylons+cannons super fast and from long range when it hits for 45 damage instead of 60. I didn't say that zerg t1 - 1.5 wasn't a concern
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Yeah, it'd be a real shame if Protoss had to make units instead of just Pylons and Mothership Core /s.
User was warned for this post
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Yeah i'm going to shoot 4-6 corrosive bile shots at 60 damage at a single pylon/cannon to take it down while that ravager is being distracted it dies, like always.. Real shame no point using ravagers now couldn't they have just added a few seconds onto cool down, as cool downs cause a zerg to back up for a few...? hard damage nerfs are soo excessive.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On February 26 2016 08:37 UberNuB wrote:
Yeah, it'd be a real shame if Protoss had to make units instead of just Pylons and Mothership Core /s.
When one race doesn't have the production mechanics and units to match another race that can easily outrange static defense, the game doesn't work out very well
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Well, why not an upgrade to reduce siege/unsiege time, and maybe some AI buff to force unsiege when the Medivac is given the order to load X tank?
Keeps the micro with an intermediate skill cap (not manual unsiege but not just pick and run) and still gives the possibility to use tanks way more aggressively, with a higher skill cap than before. A cheap, decently fast upgrade with a tech requirement.
Tanks could also use an HP buff in exchange for some attack speed, being harder to snipe.
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On February 26 2016 03:19 RavingRaver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 02:45 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On February 26 2016 00:25 RavingRaver wrote:
I've been testing the balance test map on TvZ and TvT. In TvZ, bio tank is still strong. The increased damage and weakened ravager helps compensate. I don't think Mech is viable in TvZ with this change though. TvT is way better, marine tank vs. marine tank has more emphasis on positioning like in HotS.
I think Mech is viable in TvT with this change and Bio is still capable of tearing apart a Mech player. I would not be opposed to allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode and dropped off in tank mode only if the increased siege damage is retained. I don't think they will become OP, probably makes TvZ more balanced if anything IMO. Maybe but you can't nerf ravagers when you can still pickup tanks I think it might be possible to simplify the proposed balance patch by allowing siege tanks to be picked up in siege mode, dropped off in tank mode with the damage buff to 40/20 in conjunction to not nerfing the ravager and not nerfing the liberator. However, the main problem with this is that ZvP balance will not improve. Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 03:09 BazookaBenji1 wrote:
LoL watch the terran's wiggle and squirm. You guys are due for a nerf, zerg and Toss got nerf'd last patch, now it's your turn, muahahhahaha It's a redesign rather than a nerf or a buff.
So you want and a way stronger tank while still being somewhat mobile and being able to safe it from losing battles.
I think the stronger tank should not be able to get picked up in siege mode to keep ling bling muta somewhat viable.
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Best balance change since LOTV was released. Possible Z will gain a slight buff in ZvT now, but time will tell. Also now 4 shots to hit a liberator, thank god for the pre-range nerf!
On February 26 2016 08:57 BLAiNER wrote:
Yeah i'm going to shoot 4-6 corrosive bile shots at 60 damage at a single pylon/cannon to take it down while that ravager is being distracted it dies, like always.. Real shame no point using ravagers now couldn't they have just added a few seconds onto cool down, as cool downs cause a zerg to back up for a few...? hard damage nerfs are soo excessive.
Clearly you failed to see the problem being with the burst damage itself, cool down would have minimal impact in a bust situation. Now pylons and bunkers will last longer, as you surmise, which is intentional.
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On February 26 2016 09:25 JCoto wrote:
Well, why not an upgrade to reduce siege/unsiege time, and maybe some AI buff to force unsiege when the Medivac is given the order to load X tank?
Keeps the micro with an intermediate skill cap (not manual unsiege but not just pick and run) and still gives the possibility to use tanks way more aggressively, with a higher skill cap than before. A cheap, decently fast upgrade with a tech requirement.
Tanks could also use an HP buff in exchange for some attack speed, being harder to snipe.
3 seconds for Tanks to unsiege vs the Lurker that almost pops out from the ground as fast as the Infestor, does seem a bit unfair (dno the actual unburrow time of Lurker.)
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The Tank feels much better against Protoss. Not sure if it's enough for mech to be viable, but it's a good start.
TvT is vastly improved. Defenders advantage is a thing again and mech has a chance.
TvZ feels better to. You need to think a bit more about positioning and spend time spreading Tanks, but when they hit they feel strong. Longer lines of Tanks make fights last longer to and generally feel more epic.
All in all, it feels like twitch reflex are replaced by positioning and thinking. Great improvement IMO.
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I still stand for the opinion that the ability to pick sieged tanks was a great change, it allows tanks to disengage and evade not only ravager shots but also other dicey situations. It rewards micro too. The problem is the sieged tank drop that allows those extremely silly doomdrops in TvT and while its not a balance concern, a zerg with no air is just "outplayed" by good micro as in there is nothing you can do if the tank was picked and droped back in a good position (lack of counterplay).
So just make them unsieged when picked up. You can still save them from ravager biles, you can still pick and drop back but you must siege afterwards, still totally worth it.
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On February 26 2016 18:15 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank feels much better against Protoss. Not sure if it's enough for mech to be viable, but it's a good start.
TvT is vastly improved. Defenders advantage is a thing again and mech has a chance.
TvZ feels better to. You need to think a bit more about positioning and spend time spreading Tanks, but when they hit they feel strong. Longer lines of Tanks make fights last longer to and generally feel more epic.
All in all, it feels like twitch reflex are replaced by positioning and thinking. Great improvement IMO.
This sounds fantastic  I keep my fingered crossed for that patch to be integrated into LotV!
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On February 26 2016 17:22 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 09:25 JCoto wrote:
Well, why not an upgrade to reduce siege/unsiege time, and maybe some AI buff to force unsiege when the Medivac is given the order to load X tank?
Keeps the micro with an intermediate skill cap (not manual unsiege but not just pick and run) and still gives the possibility to use tanks way more aggressively, with a higher skill cap than before. A cheap, decently fast upgrade with a tech requirement.
Tanks could also use an HP buff in exchange for some attack speed, being harder to snipe. 3 seconds for Tanks to unsiege vs the Lurker that almost pops out from the ground as fast as the Infestor, does seem a bit unfair (dno the actual unburrow time of Lurker.)
Sorry I don't understand your post XD.
I mean, reducing siege/unsiege to half its values.
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On February 26 2016 18:15 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank feels much better against Protoss. Not sure if it's enough for mech to be viable, but it's a good start.
TvT is vastly improved. Defenders advantage is a thing again and mech has a chance.
TvZ feels better to. You need to think a bit more about positioning and spend time spreading Tanks, but when they hit they feel strong. Longer lines of Tanks make fights last longer to and generally feel more epic.
All in all, it feels like twitch reflex are replaced by positioning and thinking. Great improvement IMO.
Sounds fantastic. Like, welcome back Starcraft.
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Please do not remove tankivacs.. Its a good micro thing.. Why the hell should we promote more passive play whit camping whit tanks? rather than use them offencive and let good micro reward the player.
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EPT
