It’s been nearly three months since Legacy of the Void warped into the hands of millions of players around the world. Since that time, we’ve all begun to understand how genuinely different StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void is than its predecessors.
The maps of Legacy of the Void are meant to be no exception. In a recent Community Feedback Update, Lead Multiplayer Designer David Kim explained how Legacy of the Void maps are meant to open up new strategic opportunities, instead of encouraging the same “main” strategies on each map. With that in mind, we’d like see what creative angles our community map makers might be able to bring to light.
For the upcoming season in Legacy of the Void, we’re giving all map makers the opportunity to have their creation become part of the official ladder map pool. We’ll be using at least two maps from all those which are sent to us; to have your map considered for the upcoming map pool, all you have to do is send it to us for review and it will be considered along with all other maps we receive. We’ve already seen a number of quality maps published to Team Liquid, Reddit, and our Battle.net Forums, and we want to see even more. Check below for entry guidelines.
Submission Guidelines
Details:
Maps must be created by the person submitting the entry
The maps must be published online in at least one region for consideration
A limit of up to 5 entries per person
All entries must be submitted at the same time
Submissions must include:
Map maker name
Map file
Link to the online version of the map
Short description of the map
“Bird’s Eye” or isometric screenshot (720p+ preferred)
What we’re looking for:
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
2/3/4-Player maps
There are also some design restrictions that we’d recommend maps follow:
Normal bases always have 8 normal mineral patches and 2 normal geysers
High yield bases always have 6 high yield mineral patches and 2 normal geysers
Retain the default values for Neutral units (Xel’Naga towers, destructible objects, etc.)
We’d also recommend ensuring that the submitted map(s) perform well on a variety of hardware configurations. To help with this, we’d recommend the following:
Avoid excessive use of water
Avoid weather effects like falling snow, snow drift doodads, etc.
If using the Ice tileset, avoid using the CliffGlacier* doodad series
Avoid excessive stacking/overlapping of doodads in concentrated spaces
Excessive use of decals, custom decals
Excessive use of doodads that produce dynamic shadows
Doodads under the terrain
Clusters of large/complex doodads
Closing Thoughts
In the coming days, we’ll also have a guide of best practices you can utilize to get these (or any) maps in ship-shape before sending them out to the world! Once again however, creativity is the prime driver in selecting maps in this particular submission.
When you send us your maps, we’ll present your creations to the Balance Team where they’ll test and review various maps to see what maps might make the cut to be used in the Ladder for 2016 Season 1 in Legacy of the Void.
In the future, we’ll continue to run more map contests like we have in the past. However, for this first venture into community-made maps for Legacy of the Void, we wanted to create an environment where map makers can feel free to experiment to heart’s content. So please send us your unique and unorthodox maps by submitting them in an e-mail to SC2CommunityTeam@Blizzard.com by February 10, 11:59 PM PST.
Thanks, and we’re looking forward to seeing your creations!
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
Oh god my sides. This should be interesting to see what Blizzard picks
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
I can't but feel a bit back stabbed with this announcement, it is so out of the blue, and TL historically has been THE SITE for SC2 Melee mapmaking, it is unbelievable that Blizz would decide to leave TL out.
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
Oh god my sides. This should be interesting to see what Blizzard picks
Well those maps are certainly very distinguishable.
On January 29 2016 06:23 Ctone23 wrote: The new season starts Feb 1, so in a couple days... Did they forget to post this or is the plan to add them into the pool later? Seems odd.
Well, since the show started(GSL/S2SL) I think they want to leave as much of their maps on ladder as possible so players can train appropriately. But then again, it is Blizzard who came with WCS...
I definitely understand why they are doing this, but do I trust their judgement, no. I think there should be a roughly 50/50 split between standard and non standard maps in the pool, and if they pick a bunch of truly gimmicky maps, its going to be a long season. If they are capable of picking a map pool full of creative yet balanced maps? Sounds great. Don't think they have the judgement for it.
Wow I'm preparing my anus for some atrocious maps to emerge. Like Ulrena, Central Protocol, Secret Spring terrible. I can see where they are coming from in their search for creative maps but... make sure they're playable first.
On January 29 2016 06:23 Ctone23 wrote: The new season starts Feb 1, so in a couple days... Did they forget to post this or is the plan to add them into the pool later? Seems odd.
Deadline's February 10th, so it's for later I suppose.
On January 29 2016 06:23 Ctone23 wrote: The new season starts Feb 1, so in a couple days... Did they forget to post this or is the plan to add them into the pool later? Seems odd.
Deadline's February 10th, so it's for later I suppose.
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
Oh god my sides. This should be interesting to see what Blizzard picks
No. This will not be interesting. Painful, yes, depressing, yes, but interesting? No.
Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies
We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor.
Oh god my sides. This should be interesting to see what Blizzard picks
No. This will not be interesting. Painful, yes, depressing, yes, but interesting? No.
That was already so painful to read after 5 and a half years
I think the fact that Blizzard has set the submission date as less than two weeks away shows they don't understand how long it can take to make an actual good map, and might explain why the majority of their maps aren't very good.
On January 29 2016 06:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I think the fact that Blizzard has set the submission date as less than two weeks away shows they don't understand how long it can take to make an actual good map, and might explain why the majority of their maps aren't very good.
Absolutely. I can make a map in 2-3 days, but I'm probably only about as good as Blizzard on their better days. The mapmakers who will (hopefully) win pay attention to every detail and make complex design decisions, and that takes a lot of time.
On January 29 2016 06:33 blade55555 wrote: I love the "We are looking for creative maps" "please maintain same mineral/gas count on every base". Dunno why they are so stubborn with that.
Everyone is so negative around Here. TIME FOR OPTIMISM - I Believe this is a good thing!
On map variety: BW had tons of maps that were non-standard that allowed you to make specific builds for each map and prepare a match with the map in mind. I can think of maps like ParanOid Android, Katrina, Destination, etc. Standard maps are indeed important so that people get the grasp of things, but I think maps with a concept are much better for the scene since it could allow for so much build order variety and games looking really different from each other.
On mapmaking community: It is GREAT to see Blizzard opening their doors to the mapmaking community to change the maps. I hope this is done more frequently as time goes by. I know a lot of really talented map makers out there ready for a challenge
I really like the idea but isn't 10 days too short ?
I mean, they could have let the same map pool for Season 2 and start on february 1st a contest for Season 3 map pool. With more than two months people would have had enough time to create good maps. With some videos/articles to give ideas or advice plus a reward for participants, it could have a great impact on the community.
ZeroCartin, what you are seeing right now is not a challenge for mapmakers, this is taking the rug out from under us. Over the years we have built a community and made contacts so to get our work used, time and time again, Blizzard has closed the doors to any initiative done by our part, now by removing the community aspect from the only mapmaking tournament there's left they are basically using us as a resource to feed their wills instead of us being a creative workforce and be recognized as that.
On January 29 2016 06:49 ZeroCartin wrote: Everyone is so negative around Here. TIME FOR OPTIMISM - I Believe this is a good thing!
On map variety: BW had tons of maps that were non-standard that allowed you to make specific builds for each map and prepare a match with the map in mind. I can think of maps like ParanOid Android, Katrina, Destination, etc. Standard maps are indeed important so that people get the grasp of things, but I think maps with a concept are much better for the scene since it could allow for so much build order variety and games looking really different from each other.
On mapmaking community: It is GREAT to see Blizzard opening their doors to the mapmaking community to change the maps. I hope this is done more frequently as time goes by. I know a lot of really talented map makers out there ready for a challenge
I agree 100%. Although interesting maps might prove unbalanced in the long run, having all the maps being very similar between each other also handicaps mapmaker creativity.
Guys, some feedback from someone who is not a map designer for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 maps.
Please consider these things:
1) You cannot always scout ALL your opponents in a 4v4 player map. And every player cannot prepare for every strategy at the same time. I can't have a turret for Oracles, a Wall for Lings, Vikings, and also whatever the hell stops Ravagers all off one base. Please... make it easy for allies to help each other. Put them close together at the start...
2) Everyone should have access to at least one easy to secure expansion. Maps where someone doesn't get to expand often turn into a cheese fest. Cheese should be an option, not a requirement. Scouting and preparation should be rewarded when defending cheese.
3) Maps where lings and Muta are less effective, please. We don't need back rocks everywhere and giant empty spaces with tons of angles. There's always the one guy spammig lings and then transitioning into 50 muta with gas he took from his allies. This really fucking sucks, but it' because of the way maps are designed for team games. Mass lig is way too strong in the early game on these huge open maps with huge ramps..
I usually roll random or Terran in team games. Not really biased in any way, I think. I do like cheesing from time to time for fun. But also, I hate scouting cheese and being literally unable to react because of the maps.
@mapmakers, Remember, Terrans need room to drop. Right now its really hard to drop and terrans struggle. They do not have pickup range either. Also, giving other races free golds makes it hard to play terran.
What I don't understand is what the stigma with standard maps at Blizzard is. Look at the lists for all the greatest games of the past few years we've had. Only a few of them are great because of the "circumstances of map creativity" but the vast majority of them are great because of the types of games that we saw play out on standard maps, both "standard and non-standard" games (macro, cheese, whatever).
Having a unique feature isn't necessarily terrible - Habitation Station was a little quirky but made for amazing 'standard' macro games - but having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick doesn't create consistent, quality entertainment as a viewer or as a player. Standard maps are great.
If blizzard takes ulrena as role example for a good interesting map I ... I don't know what to say. I wonder where they get the feedback from that their maps are so great and interesting, almost all players hate them (pro or not) Are that the viewers? Then why are the viewer numbers getting lower and lower when the game has so awesome maps. DKs plan of attracting more viewers by adding gimmicky and stupid maps doesn't seem to work. It seems like the only guy in the world who enjoys those maps is david kim and because david kim only listens to david kim the entire player base has to deal with this crap. I guess Iloveoov was right and blizzard doesn't care at all about making sc2 more popular "go play other games, right"
I'll try to be confident in this, but I'm very afraid of what Blizzard will choose. The "we are looking for creative maps" part is especially frightening.
On January 29 2016 07:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What I don't understand is what the stigma with standard maps at Blizzard is. Look at the lists for all the greatest games of the past few years we've had. Only a few of them are great because of the "circumstances of map creativity" but the vast majority of them are great because of the types of games that we saw play out on standard maps, both "standard and non-standard" games (macro, cheese, whatever).
Having a unique feature isn't necessarily terrible - Habitation Station was a little quirky but made for amazing 'standard' macro games - but having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick doesn't create consistent, quality entertainment as a viewer or as a player. Standard maps are great.
I agree. Games aren't binary. Standard maps don't always lead to standard games and even "creative" maps don't always have the intended effect.
I hope Proleague also has some map makers working on something, I'm tired of some of the ladder maps for competetive play.
When Blizzard gets creative, we get Prion Terraces or Secret Spring, or Klontas Mire.
When the community gets creative, we got Habitation Station, Catallena, Foxtrot Labs. I think instead of bashing Blizzard for looking for creative maps, we can be optimistic because they're looking for them in the right places.
They mentioned Ulrena and Prion..maybe they want some 'nonstandard maps' in the pool but due to the large player outcry against these two, they want to replace them with something better, more balanced, yet still nonstandard and fun.
Maps with one stupid gimmick (short air distance, lots of gold bases, etc.) are not "interesting."
Interesting maps offer possibilities for the players. Choices. If he expands here I go there. If I expand here I can reinforce my attack but I'm more exposed. Etc. this is interesting.
"Hey how about we make a map with lots of dead air space behind every mineral line" is not interesting because it will only lead to one thing... people trying to abuse that dead air space.
Sounds like fun. Got a lot of ideas myself but they won't see the light of the day. But I trust the great mapmaking community to come up with something incredible.
On January 29 2016 07:31 Solar424 wrote: Alright, time to submit my "Every base is an island" map. That's creative, right?
Well, it's what Tasteless has been waiting for for over 5 years so you might aswell try.
On January 29 2016 07:28 joshie0808 wrote: I think instead of bashing Blizzard for looking for creative maps, we can be optimistic because they're looking for them in the right places.
On January 29 2016 07:31 Solar424 wrote: Alright, time to submit my "Every base is an island" map. That's creative, right?
Well, it's what Tasteless has been waiting for for over 5 years so you might aswell try.
Zerg got early drops, rushing warp prisms has never been as tempting and medivacs are going strong as always, even more with the tank pick-up. Whether it can make for a good map has to be discovered, but the cards have been reshuffled quite a bit.
On January 29 2016 07:31 Solar424 wrote: Alright, time to submit my "Every base is an island" map. That's creative, right?
Well, it's what Tasteless has been waiting for for over 5 years so you might aswell try.
Zerg got early drops, rushing warp prisms has never been as tempting and medivacs are going strong as always, even more with the tank pick-up. Whether it can make for a good map has to be discovered, but the cards have been reshuffled quite a bit.
I still think it wouldn't ever be balanced because Terran is... well, Terran. Even the command structure can fly.
"We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard"
The corollary (Blizzard will be making the standard maps) is just depressing -or can they pick community maps by themselves ?
The problem is that the good mapmakers (the community ones) will be making the gimmicky maps while the let's say haphazard mapmakers (Blizz) will be making the standard ones. My God the upcoming map pool should be something
On January 29 2016 07:28 joshie0808 wrote: When Blizzard gets creative, we get Prion Terraces or Secret Spring, or Klontas Mire.
When the community gets creative, we got Habitation Station, Catallena, Foxtrot Labs. I think instead of bashing Blizzard for looking for creative maps, we can be optimistic because they're looking for them in the right places.
They mentioned Ulrena and Prion..maybe they want some 'nonstandard maps' in the pool but due to the large player outcry against these two, they want to replace them with something better, more balanced, yet still nonstandard and fun.
Habitation Station, Catallena and Foxtrot Labs are all pretty standard maps for the most part, if their standard for 'distinguishably creative factor' is Ulrena or Prion, which is a worrying thought in itself, I doubt maps similar to those would be accepted.
On January 29 2016 07:28 joshie0808 wrote: When Blizzard gets creative, we get Prion Terraces or Secret Spring, or Klontas Mire.
When the community gets creative, we got Habitation Station, Catallena, Foxtrot Labs. I think instead of bashing Blizzard for looking for creative maps, we can be optimistic because they're looking for them in the right places.
They mentioned Ulrena and Prion..maybe they want some 'nonstandard maps' in the pool but due to the large player outcry against these two, they want to replace them with something better, more balanced, yet still nonstandard and fun.
You are correct with the thing of Blizzard looking in the right way towards community maps, the problem comes with the fact that the reason you got to play maps such as Cloud Kingdom, Catallena, Habitation Or Foxtrot is because the Judges did their job correctly. I worry with the fact that this time there won't be a TL Strat Team to judge and cure the finalist maps, now it will be all left to the DevTeam AND there won't be a period where they return the maps to the mapmakers for changes, so if a map has potential issues and it ends up being liked by the dev team, that's the map that will end up in the ladder, just like it happened with the initial version of Foxtrot, but this time it won't be an accident this time it will be a complete failure of the system.
And that's without mentioning that the last time the devteam was left in charge of directing the TLMC we had some really disliked and imbalanced maps like Dash and Terminal.
Anyways, here I'm waiting to see if they actually offer prices or anything that's worth me working basically full time for two weeks...
Obviusly Blizzard is not satisfied with the speed of the game yet so they need some maps where you can do silly 1 base cheeses. If they try a little harder they can fit Blizzcon into my lunch break
On January 29 2016 07:28 joshie0808 wrote: When Blizzard gets creative, we get Prion Terraces or Secret Spring, or Klontas Mire.
When the community gets creative, we got Habitation Station, Catallena, Foxtrot Labs. I think instead of bashing Blizzard for looking for creative maps, we can be optimistic because they're looking for them in the right places.
They mentioned Ulrena and Prion..maybe they want some 'nonstandard maps' in the pool but due to the large player outcry against these two, they want to replace them with something better, more balanced, yet still nonstandard and fun.
I don't think cattallena and foxtrot are what they are looking for. When david kim says "interesting" he means a map with stupid abusable gimmicks, foxtrot and cattalena are far to balanced and playable for that. Also the community has also made terrible maps like bridgehead, moonlight madness or that other scrap station clone from the last hots season I forgot the name from.
On January 29 2016 07:38 [PkF] Wire wrote: "We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard"
The corollary (Blizzard will be making the standard maps) is just depressing -or can they pick community maps by themselves ?
The problem is that the good mapmakers (the community ones) will be making the gimmicky maps while the let's say haphazard mapmakers (Blizz) will be making the standard ones. My God the upcoming map pool should be something
Blizzard's standardish maps have been pretty OK in my opinion. It's been the non-standard ones in which they experimented with terribly ideas imo.
The only thing that I would hold against blizzard standard maps is that they tend to be superopen in the middle. Though that again was something fresh in the light of every community/Korean mapmaker making very chokey middles.
On January 29 2016 07:38 [PkF] Wire wrote: "We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard"
The corollary (Blizzard will be making the standard maps) is just depressing -or can they pick community maps by themselves ?
The problem is that the good mapmakers (the community ones) will be making the gimmicky maps while the let's say haphazard mapmakers (Blizz) will be making the standard ones. My God the upcoming map pool should be something
Blizzard's standardish maps have been pretty OK in my opinion. It's been the non-standard ones in which they experimented with terribly ideas imo.
The only thing that I would hold against blizzard standard maps is that they tend to be superopen in the middle. Though that again was something fresh in the light of every community/Korean mapmaker making very chokey middles.
On January 29 2016 07:51 Mozdk wrote: Is there any chance of making a decent map on your first try?
Or do you have to have done it a few times before something potentially playable comes out.
Realistically, unless you have prior design experience or a sibling who is a mapper (shoutouts to our Uruguayan bros) probably not. But that shouldn't stop you from trying! If you make a map and really enjoy you can keep working on your craft and by the time the next contest comes around you'll have a real chance!
On January 29 2016 07:31 Big J wrote: Sounds like fun. Got a lot of ideas myself but they won't see the light of the day. But I trust the great mapmaking community to come up with something incredible.
Well apparently there are no prices, so personally I wouldn't expect the guys to grind out maps for two weeks straight without even a small reward.
On January 29 2016 08:38 ilikeredheads wrote: Just make a map with lots of backdoor rocks, destructible rocks, and/or gold bases. I'm sure that's Blizzard's definition of "creativity".
Browder would approve of it. Him and that rock fetish he had.
Just wanted to jump in here to clear up a few points.
I made a few additional comments here, but I can also help give some more specific details for this group.
To start off, we aren't doing away with supporting Team Liquid Map Contests. If you look at the past few contests, we've worked closely with Team Liquid to actually make them bigger and bigger (more time, better prizing, etc). We aren't looking to go away from that. This upcoming season was a unique circumstance, so we went with an alternate plan this time around.
There is a possibility that this upcoming season is shorter than a typical season. Because of this possibility, we couldn't ensure there would be enough time to run a proper TLMC. We know that many of you have already been working on and posting melee maps here on Team Liquid, so in the absence of a proper contest, our first thoughts were to just look at the maps that have been shared here to look for potential ladder additions.
Once that was decided, we thought rather than do this quietly, we'd make everyone aware of the fact that we're looking for new ladder maps. Two weeks isn't a enormous amount of time, but we need to ensure we have them early enough to review and get proper testing in. Additionally, if you consider that we were planning to review existing maps, we were hoping map makers would submit some of their favorites they've already made. Having the knowledge that we're looking for ladder maps would also give them the chance to potentially finish up and submit unreleased maps.
We still plan to work with Team Liquid to do more of these contests for upcoming seasons. We've loved how these have turned out and appreciate all of the hard work the map makers and the Team Liquid staff put into them.
Oh good lord, I've only made one new map since LOTV has come out (mainly due to the fact I've been addicted to many different ps4 games lately). I'll either map my ass off this wknd to come up with at least 1 or 2 new ideas or I'll just "edit" some of my older maps. The choices, the choices!
GL Friends, also if you submit maps I'd love for you guys to post them here, I know i will.
I feel like the TL map making contests has always been the best way to get good maps for SC2. Most of my favorite maps have been community made maps. Thanks TL!
"Creative maps that push for new and interesting strategies We will not be considering maps from the community that are standard. Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor"
Both of those maps are total garbage and unbalanced, I have low expectations for this.
Glad to see psione clearing up a lot of the worries we,ve seen about them not cooperating with TL for this and what this might reflect for future contests.
I would just love for them to reconsider ressource Layouts. Loved the idea of some expansions having no Gases in broodwar already or the rich vespene Gas on maps like Atlantis spacestation/ship that we saw on Ipl
I really wish they would open this up for team maps. I know that 1v1 has been, and always will be, the main focus. However, traditional team games are so rampantly ignored it is atrocious in my opinion.
I hope we get some fun maps from this. I have no doubt the good mapmakers will make their decision difficult.
Is there a reward for getting your map picked, or is Blizzard trying to freeload off the community here? If Blizzard is freeloading, they should do a contest asking for people to help balance their games and put in good design ideas, because I feel like they need just as much help there.
I'm going to rename and submit Slag Pits and see if it makes it. Blizzard made it, so they must love it, and who needs a third base?
On January 29 2016 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote: Is there a reward for getting your map picked, or is Blizzard trying to freeload off the community here? If Blizzard is freeloading, they should do a contest asking for people to help balance their games and put in good design ideas, because I feel like they need just as much help there.
I'm going to rename and submit Slag Pits and see if it makes it. Blizzard made it, so they must love it, and who needs a third base?
"Consider maps such as Ulrena or Prion Terraces when deciding if your map has at least one distinguishingly creative factor". Pretty much says it all. Blizzard good designer.
While creative maps are risky from a balance POV, I personally don't get that a large part of the community wants the same standard map 8 times but a different tileset each time.
On January 29 2016 15:49 Sissors wrote: While creative maps are risky from a balance POV, I personally don't get that a large part of the community wants the same standard map 8 times but a different tileset each time.
It isn't so much a dislike of creative maps (though the design restrictions imposed on them and what Blizzard considers to be creative are questionable), as much as a dislike of orthodox maps being rejected out of hand.
Well blizzard said the current map poo turned out "much better than expected" so that's not really reassuring.
that's the joke
:/
I thought Blizzard was the joke
the joke is that community mapmakers spend years making maps expecting to one day receive a bunch of recognition and money from blizzard for some unknowable reason
it reminds me of people who are always trying to do you favors you don't need so they can ask you for something in return. hey, i mowed your lawn, give me $20!
Maybe it'll be the occasion to have a new generation of mapmakers... Because the "I'm a genius, but blizzard refuses to let me shine" and "we used to make maps that way in BW" stuff is getting a bit old.
I also hope the korean mapmakers will be involved in some way.
And last, I hope that, instead of always theorizing balance and what the game shouldbe in their opinion, mapmakers will focus on the fun aspect of the game, and make maps the average players will be simply happy to get on ladder. Silliness is not that bad when done well.
First quality of a mapmaker should to love and play the game (problem being when you love and play the game you don't have much time to make maps)
Well blizzard said the current map poo turned out "much better than expected" so that's not really reassuring.
that's the joke
:/
I thought Blizzard was the joke
the joke is that community mapmakers spend years making maps expecting to one day receive a bunch of recognition and money from blizzard for some unknowable reason
it reminds me of people who are always trying to do you favors you don't need so they can ask you for something in return. hey, i mowed your lawn, give me $20!
Pretty sure every mapmaker starts making maps solely because it's "fun"/rewarding, it's another way to see the game ; no one originally expected a bunch of recognition and money from Blizz. Mapmakers just want their maps to be played on, and Blizz's shitty ladder system and WCS rules, in addition to the terrible lobbying of lazy foreign pro players who only want to play on ladder maps because they are unable to train any other way than by grinding the ladder, is preventing that.
On January 29 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote: Maybe it'll be the occasion to have a new generation of mapmakers... Because the "I'm a genius, but blizzard refuses to let me shine" and "we used to make maps that way in BW" stuff is getting a bit old.
I also hope the korean mapmakers will be involved in some way.
And last, I hope that, instead of always theorizing balance and what the game shouldbe in their opinion, mapmakers will focus on the fun aspect of the game, and make maps the average players will be simply happy to get on ladder. Silliness is not that bad when done well.
First quality of a mapmaker should to love and play the game (problem being when you love and play the game you don't have much time to make maps)
What do you mean by "fun aspects of the game" though? Make a "standard", "unfun" map, and people complain that it's the same Daybreak shit. Make a make with "fun" shit and people complain that they can't make their one build order over and over again exactly like on other maps, and blame the map when they lose. In other words, how do you find fun aspects in a game most people play not because it is fun?
Well blizzard said the current map poo turned out "much better than expected" so that's not really reassuring.
that's the joke
:/
I thought Blizzard was the joke
the joke is that community mapmakers spend years making maps expecting to one day receive a bunch of recognition and money from blizzard for some unknowable reason
it reminds me of people who are always trying to do you favors you don't need so they can ask you for something in return. hey, i mowed your lawn, give me $20!
Pretty sure every mapmaker starts making maps solely because it's "fun"/rewarding, it's another way to see the game ; no one originally expected a bunch of recognition and money from Blizz. Mapmakers just want their maps to be played on, and Blizz's shitty ladder system and WCS rules, in addition to the terrible lobbying of lazy foreign pro players who only want to play on ladder maps because they are unable to train any other way than by grinding the ladder, is preventing that.
On January 29 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote: Maybe it'll be the occasion to have a new generation of mapmakers... Because the "I'm a genius, but blizzard refuses to let me shine" and "we used to make maps that way in BW" stuff is getting a bit old.
I also hope the korean mapmakers will be involved in some way.
And last, I hope that, instead of always theorizing balance and what the game shouldbe in their opinion, mapmakers will focus on the fun aspect of the game, and make maps the average players will be simply happy to get on ladder. Silliness is not that bad when done well.
First quality of a mapmaker should to love and play the game (problem being when you love and play the game you don't have much time to make maps)
What do you mean by "fun aspects of the game" though? Make a "standard", "unfun" map, and people complain that it's the same Daybreak shit. Make a make with "fun" shit and people complain that they can't make their one build order over and over again exactly like on other maps, and blame the map when they lose. In other words, how do you find fun aspects in a game most people play not because it is fun?
You mean people don't play it because it is fun, and they don't like fun, or do you think fun is not something the average player is looking in sc2?
If you go for the later, I dare to disagree, but maybe it's because we don't have the same definition of fun. Let's agree on another word then : "enjoy". You surely agree that people wouldn't play a game they don't enjoy, don't you?
I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Given Blizzard's record (remember they changed Foxtrot Labs to only diagonal spawns), I seriously doubt they want asymmetrical maps. Also, they probably want all their maps to be playable for all races/matchups.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Given Blizzard's record (remember they changed Foxtrot Labs to only diagonal spawns), I seriously doubt they want asymmetrical maps. Also, they probably want all their maps to be playable for all races/matchups.
To be fair, the diagonal only was an emergency reaction to a totally imba map, I don't think that the kind of "asymetrical" stuff ProMeTheus112 has in mind...
Well blizzard said the current map poo turned out "much better than expected" so that's not really reassuring.
that's the joke
:/
I thought Blizzard was the joke
the joke is that community mapmakers spend years making maps expecting to one day receive a bunch of recognition and money from blizzard for some unknowable reason
it reminds me of people who are always trying to do you favors you don't need so they can ask you for something in return. hey, i mowed your lawn, give me $20!
Pretty sure every mapmaker starts making maps solely because it's "fun"/rewarding, it's another way to see the game ; no one originally expected a bunch of recognition and money from Blizz. Mapmakers just want their maps to be played on, and Blizz's shitty ladder system and WCS rules, in addition to the terrible lobbying of lazy foreign pro players who only want to play on ladder maps because they are unable to train any other way than by grinding the ladder, is preventing that.
On January 29 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote: Maybe it'll be the occasion to have a new generation of mapmakers... Because the "I'm a genius, but blizzard refuses to let me shine" and "we used to make maps that way in BW" stuff is getting a bit old.
I also hope the korean mapmakers will be involved in some way.
And last, I hope that, instead of always theorizing balance and what the game shouldbe in their opinion, mapmakers will focus on the fun aspect of the game, and make maps the average players will be simply happy to get on ladder. Silliness is not that bad when done well.
First quality of a mapmaker should to love and play the game (problem being when you love and play the game you don't have much time to make maps)
What do you mean by "fun aspects of the game" though? Make a "standard", "unfun" map, and people complain that it's the same Daybreak shit. Make a make with "fun" shit and people complain that they can't make their one build order over and over again exactly like on other maps, and blame the map when they lose. In other words, how do you find fun aspects in a game most people play not because it is fun?
You mean people don't play it because it is fun, and they don't like fun, or do you think fun is not something the average player is looking in sc2?
If you go for the later, I dare to disagree, but maybe it's because we don't have the same definition of fun. Let's agree on another word then : "enjoy". You surely agree that people wouldn't play a game they don't enjoy, don't you?
My thesis is that an important amount of SC2 players play SC2 because it's an habit for them to play the game, not because they enjoy it. Hence the lack of fun.
Well blizzard said the current map poo turned out "much better than expected" so that's not really reassuring.
that's the joke
:/
I thought Blizzard was the joke
the joke is that community mapmakers spend years making maps expecting to one day receive a bunch of recognition and money from blizzard for some unknowable reason
it reminds me of people who are always trying to do you favors you don't need so they can ask you for something in return. hey, i mowed your lawn, give me $20!
Thank you for speaking on my behalf, because I can't speak for myself as a mapmaker. Also, wide-sweeping generalizations loaded with prejudice are always a great way to go!
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Rotationally symmetric 4p maps are also 2p asymmetric maps when played in close spawns.
Also mapmakers cannot easily control what race spawns in what side of the map, and if we do that via triggers then the map is not melee.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
I brought this idea up a couple of years ago. Have 4 maps that are totally standard for all races, then 3 maps specifically for PvZ, 3 maps for TvZ, 3 maps for TvP. In case of mirror, just replay the standard maps if necessary (bo7).
The idea got a lukewarm reception because people thought it would be too much work for pros to learn all the maps. I disagreed. Just make seasons longer if necessary.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Given Blizzard's record (remember they changed Foxtrot Labs to only diagonal spawns), I seriously doubt they want asymmetrical maps. Also, they probably want all their maps to be playable for all races/matchups.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Given Blizzard's record (remember they changed Foxtrot Labs to only diagonal spawns), I seriously doubt they want asymmetrical maps. Also, they probably want all their maps to be playable for all races/matchups.
On January 29 2016 22:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I want to throw this odd idea that was in my head, it wouldn't stand a chance to get selected on a blizz map collection thing for ladder, but what do you think of the idea of making assymetrical maps ?
In my mind I'm thinking, there could be maps that have no symmetry that are intended to be played in a specific match up, with separate starting locations for each race of the match up.
I think this could make an interesting set up for allowing some styles of play to appear. Races are assymetrical in Starcraft, so why never maps ?
Of course these downsides come with such map design : - likely playable only in 1 match up (?) - you have to collect knowledge of map only for that match up which may be tedious? tends to multiply the number of maps to know about - might tend to generate redundant strategies that are very effective on this specific map to be repeated
but there may be upsides... you can create conditions that make anything a race has become more effective or really free the creativity in terms of any strategic or tactical features that would otherwise create an imbalance if the map was supposed to be played in all match ups. You can always balance any weird feature that could possibly be the cause of an imbalance with a correct answer somewhere else on the map. You can change the weight of about anything in the game, units, timings for expos, etc, as long as you correctly place weight on the other side on the balance. Constraints disappear and new possibilities appear. In theory, it should work, but it is not guaranteed that it outweighs the downsides reasonably.
Given Blizzard's record (remember they changed Foxtrot Labs to only diagonal spawns), I seriously doubt they want asymmetrical maps. Also, they probably want all their maps to be playable for all races/matchups.
No they don't.
Really, when did they say that?
Lol he's just inferring from the current map pool, and a couple of choice ones we had in the past.
I do not have the gift of creating badass maps, but I do have a suggestion if anyone is interested. I have a rough layout and some map mechanics that bring back the creativity we saw back in broodwar. If anyone is interested and wants to make it just send me a pm
Some of the mechanics include neutral building blockers on high grounds behind mineral lines, single square gaps to allow direct routes for smaller units and mineral lines that open up the map once completely mined out.
I won't really have the time to do any mapmaking between now and the 10th, so I'm just going to submit Korhal Pale Ivy, Hell And Paradise, and old Cassiopeia. Cassiopeia is the best of these, but is too standard, essentially an inferior cousin of King Sejong. KPI is my favorite, but it is also too standard, plus it has like 3000 ivy doodads so it's right out. That leaves Hell And Paradise which has two in one spawns, a backdoor main, and gold bases, so it's probably super broken.
o wait that translates to 'creative' in DK language. see you all in WCS?
Whelp, might as well get started. This next work week is going to be pretty busy so I know I won't have much time to map besides today/tomorrow and then next weekend. I'm going to post four maps I'll be submitting, you may have seen them before (they are all on TL map section). I'll work on one final new map but if I can't get something new done I'll tweak up another existing old map. Either way, enjoy! =)
Shakuras Slaughter Experimental 2 player map. No ramps, tons of chokes. Zone control units & air play could be king. (All those "brick doodads" on the ground, most you can not walk or build on.)
Paradisia Very large 2 player map with tons of expand opportunities. Middle section is fairly choke heavy while around the edges of the map is more open.
Korhal Carnage Knockout 8 spawn map (your opponent can only spawn at the 3 farthest away bases from you). Very experimental. Backdoors into main! (Yippee!)
I have a great idea for not standard map, instead of one pocket expansions put in 2 pocket expansions and have choke points everywhere on the map. Very narrow ramps of course and limited air space behind main. No stupid gold expos. Would be best map ever.
On January 31 2016 07:42 ProtossMasterRace wrote: I have a great idea for not standard map, instead of one pocket expansions put in 2 pocket expansions and have choke points everywhere on the map. Very narrow ramps of course and limited air space behind main. No stupid gold expos. Would be best map ever.
Is there any chamce of mineral only expansions comong back? Theyre pretty common in sc bw iirc and I think they're very interesting. If they won't is there any chance for a expo with only 1 gas geyser?
On January 31 2016 08:26 RvB wrote: Is there any chamce of mineral only expansions comong back? Theyre pretty common in sc bw iirc and I think they're very interesting. If they won't is there any chance for a expo with only 1 gas geyser?
Probably not, unfortunately
On January 29 2016 06:09 The_Templar wrote: There are also some design restrictions that we’d recommend maps follow:
Normal bases always have 8 normal mineral patches and 2 normal geysers
High yield bases always have 6 high yield mineral patches and 2 normal geysers
Retain the default values for Neutral units (Xel’Naga towers, destructible objects, etc.)
On January 31 2016 08:26 RvB wrote: Is there any chamce of mineral only expansions comong back? Theyre pretty common in sc bw iirc and I think they're very interesting. If they won't is there any chance for a expo with only 1 gas geyser?
Well they're against the rules of this map submission, and all those in recent memory, but this could change in the future. I can understand why they don't want people messing the mineral count of the patches, as it makes the maps less intuitive, but changing the number of patches or geysers doesn't.
In fact adapting to a different amount of resources on some bases is something that players already have to do due to gold bases, so adapting to mineral only bases wouldn't be a big deal.
On January 31 2016 08:35 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Anyoner remember the map from TBs Clan Wars that had the big cannon in the middle that you could capture? We need something like that on ladder
On January 31 2016 07:42 ProtossMasterRace wrote: I have a great idea for not standard map, instead of one pocket expansions put in 2 pocket expansions and have choke points everywhere on the map. Very narrow ramps of course and limited air space behind main. No stupid gold expos. Would be best map ever.
You should make it.
I would love to but my map making skills are equal to the cooking skills of a person that burns his cereal.
The short notice makes me think 2 things: 1) They will get a map that I have already finished and refined. 2) Their restrictions can be damned, because the maps are already done and I'm not changing them to make them worse.
If all submissions follow that reasoning, we won't end up with more shitty maps, because Blizzard would have to pick a decent map then. However, there's probably some fool out there making some garbage map right now with an ultra short rush distance...
Can someone remake Loki II for LotV, except add a cliff behind the third base and block access off via neutral building (like Othello main -> nat relationship) and in the center replace the water with cliffs that encompass a high yield patch and allow access via ramp from the other side. block off 2 of the wide ramps on each side of the map and use an almost depleted mineral pile to block ramp to the corner expansions?
On January 31 2016 15:09 DanceSC wrote: Can someone remake Loki II for LotV, except add a cliff behind the third base and block access off via neutral building (like Othello main -> nat relationship) and in the center replace the water with cliffs that encompass a high yield patch and allow access via ramp from the other side. block off 2 of the wide ramps on each side of the map and use an almost depleted mineral pile to block ramp to the corner expansions?
There has been no rule for which minerals to use, but I guess it's 1500/900 split as usual in LotV?!
Also I think the obvious "creative" thing to do is a golden main base. Wouldn't wonder if such a map made it in if the map looks decent aesthetically and in terms of expansion paterns.
“Bird’s Eye” or isometric screenshot (720p+ preferred)
Anyone know what "Link to the online version of the map" means? Is it possible to get a URL for a published map or something?
Asked around for that as well, and from I can understand, it's the map link to the ingame version. You can look up the map link by checking the map out ingame and check options on it.
An example would be this: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/178976, which leads to my Para Bellum map. NOTE! The link is different on every realm, if you have it uploaded there. Above link is the EU version of my map.
Speaking of which... Seeing as SidianTheBard already has revealed his cards, I might as well reveal my single one.
Map name: Para Bellum
Short bio: 'Para Bellum' is a 2-player map set on an "innocent" looking farmland, where players, if not careful enough, will see their armies squashed if not played right. The middle zone of the map contains straight-forward pathways to the opponents base, but due to their width size can be a treacherous chokey trap aswell. With the help of rocktowers located at these pathways, players can change the layout of the "maze" to their preference.
“Bird’s Eye” or isometric screenshot (720p+ preferred)
Anyone know what "Link to the online version of the map" means? Is it possible to get a URL for a published map or something?
Asked around for that as well, and from I can understand, it's the map link to the ingame version. You can look up the map link by checking the map out ingame and check options on it.
An example would be this: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/178976, which leads to my Para Bellum map. NOTE! The link is different on every realm, if you have it uploaded there. Above link is the EU version of my map.
Diogaea Divide has a weird cliff thing behind the third, mostly standard otherwise
edit:
On January 31 2016 15:09 DanceSC wrote: Can someone remake Loki II for LotV, except add a cliff behind the third base and block access off via neutral building (like Othello main -> nat relationship) and in the center replace the water with cliffs that encompass a high yield patch and allow access via ramp from the other side. block off 2 of the wide ramps on each side of the map and use an almost depleted mineral pile to block ramp to the corner expansions? -snip image-
Thank you Psione for posting. We all remain as ever in your debt. The history a game and its maps go through is hazardous and a commitment. Yours, given the situation is particularly commendable. <3
PR set aside the "openness" is enough for me to want to participate, don't know who is responsible for this twist/turn but she/he/it has my sincerest fedora tip. See you at the finish line
Dear tl readers, please do consider this hand that is in front of you.. fill these threads (like sidian and ferisil did, put YOUR flag up high by showcasing YOUR talent/enthusiasm (here indeed and everywhere else applicable)).
after reading this thread i have mixed feelings like a young damsel in need of a good.. .. mm..k I will remain nice and urban.
On January 29 2016 06:13 Plexa wrote: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is no cow level!
On January 29 2016 06:20 Uvantak wrote: I can't but feel a bit back stabbed with this announcement, it is so out of the blue, and TL historically has been THE SITE for SC2 Melee mapmaking, it is unbelievable that Blizz would decide to leave TL out.
On January 29 2016 06:57 Uvantak wrote: ZeroCartin, what you are seeing right now is not a challenge for mapmakers, this is taking the rug out from under us. Over the years we have built a community and made contacts so to get our work used, time and time again, Blizzard has closed the doors to any initiative done by our part, now by removing the community aspect from the only mapmaking tournament there's left they are basically using us as a resource to feed their wills instead of us being a creative workforce and be recognized as that.
Negativity is a weapon you are only using against yourself.. The cave is ded, long live the cave! ... So.. to get back to this damsel feeling.. first got to make a map, ahahahahahahahhahahahaa .. melee ? wtf ahahahahhahaahhahaa all maps as long as it is rts <3 (insert illegal emote featuring orgasmic like head in motion here]
Just have to sensually lay ALL our maps unto the altar of the storms! Here goes Void Temple / 4 spawn / uploaded on LotV EU KR NA + Show Spoiler +
as crazy as Lost Temple ever was! (uploaded as void temple BE, it is the first void temple ever made on EU and anywhere else (check the logs lol), B edition, b stands for baskerville)
°O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° Quagmire // 4 spawn // Uploaded on LotV EU KR NA + Show Spoiler +
(uploaded as void quagmire // it is a swamp city 3°)
°O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° °O° Babylone // 8 spawn // Uploaded on LotV EU KR NA + Show Spoiler +
(uploaded as babylone 8 // just to signigy LotV issue)
ok i'll try one more time.. whoever wants to show up to a streamed mapmaker live party is welcomed.. galaxy unleashed arcadian .. meleean let us UNITE !!!!
<3 (you would be surprised just how much YOU can make a difference!)
tldr/ps/edit: publishing maps for blizzard map open arms race
To link one's map (any map) just go on the realm it is on with sc2 go to multiplayer type your map's name in the search window, go into the cog < wheel = map info to get "in" the map, then once 'in' map info go to the cogwheel again => get link (it is copied in your "clipboard") go paste it in your email / note's app
Also, anyone can come up with THE map of tomorrow, in the amount of time left maybe not.. no.. but many a map have been started .. and for some of you it could be time to finish one of those for once and showcase it.. if you showcased it here too that would be "stupendous" .. .. so if it seems like you would but you can't figure out this or that.. just ask and it'll be my pleasure to help you get through these last steps to get your melee map extravaganza out there!
On January 31 2016 20:57 Big J wrote: There has been no rule for which minerals to use, but I guess it's 1500/900 split as usual in LotV?!
Also I think the obvious "creative" thing to do is a golden main base. Wouldn't wonder if such a map made it in if the map looks decent aesthetically and in terms of expansion paterns.
“Bird’s Eye” or isometric screenshot (720p+ preferred)
Anyone know what "Link to the online version of the map" means? Is it possible to get a URL for a published map or something?
Asked around for that as well, and from I can understand, it's the map link to the ingame version. You can look up the map link by checking the map out ingame and check options on it.
An example would be this: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/178976, which leads to my Para Bellum map. NOTE! The link is different on every realm, if you have it uploaded there. Above link is the EU version of my map.
Speaking of which... Seeing as SidianTheBard already has revealed his cards, I might as well reveal my single one.
Map name: Para Bellum
Short bio: 'Para Bellum' is a 2-player map set on an "innocent" looking farmland, where players, if not careful enough, will see their armies squashed if not played right. The middle zone of the map contains straight-forward pathways to the opponents base, but due to their width size can be a treacherous chokey trap aswell. With the help of rocktowers located at these pathways, players can change the layout of the "maze" to their preference.
Oh yeah, nearly forgot the most important feature of the map. Puppies!
When viewing this in the preview, I though there would be an easy access to gold base by destroying rocks that lead to natural. Having this base would mean huge economic income, but really risky since you would basically have 3 openings to your base to defend. But then I zoomed in and saw they are actually separated in their entirety.
On February 06 2016 00:50 DeltaCadimus wrote: This is what I submitted this morning (Brazil time). There's even a thread I just created here to showcase it.
Out of curiousity, what do they mean by this: "In the coming days, we’ll also have a guide of best practices you can utilize..."? This whole thing feels a little rushed, but in the end I'm just really glad Blizzard is doing this, to engage with the mapmakers out there.
I think it refers to this section from the latest community feedback update
Map Diversity Going Forward We wanted to talk to those of you out there who are or will be participating in the map contest going forward.
Obviously, map diversity is something we must push for the game, because we’ve seen in the past that when all 7 maps in the pool were basically the same, we were only seeing 1 timing/strategy/build order per matchup and the game became stale really quickly.
The main thing we wanted to discuss on this front was the idea of perhaps identifying some archetypes of maps that should always be represented in the map pool. For example, say the rule was something like this: 1 macro map, 1 rush map, 1 high yield minerals exploration map, 1 completely new type of map, etc. This way, there are better guidelines and a bit better set expectation on the map pool as a whole for players, but we would be able to avoid the situation of having only 1 same type of map. Obviously, we’re not there yet because we don’t have 7 solid archetypes of maps to go by. Still, we believe one of our main goals for this year’s map creation could be to focus not only on creating unique and cool maps, but also to focus on locating solid, long-term map archetypes. The reason is that some map ideas only work for 1 season and then their cool factor wears off, and some map ideas will be ideas that can be explored for a long time in different ways.
Therefore, when you create maps for submission, please keep this in mind. If you come up with a new idea altogether, it doesn’t need to be perfectly executed. Alternatively, you could take an existing idea but re-use it in a better or cooler way. For example, if you like the idea of Ulrena but would like to submit an even better map of that type, it is definitely an option to just replace Ulrena with that new map without impacting the overall map diversity of the map pool.
These are just only our initial thoughts about how we could take this archetype concept, and we’re extremely eager to hear your thoughts. We’d love to see the diversity of map-types grow in a big way, so let us know what you think.
Ah, makes sense. For some reason I thought they were going to do some tutorial style guide on mapmaking, which I was quite excited about, since as I am a newer mapmaker, I do believe there is a lot of unused potential for me in the SC2 Editor... Oh well.
On February 09 2016 19:14 fluidrone wrote: Really low showcasing count + Show Spoiler +
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Shakuras Slaughter by SidianTheBard
Korhal Killzone by SidianTheBard
Paradisia by SidianTheBard
Korhal Carnage Knockout by SidianTheBard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Para Bellum by Ferisii ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Dragon Awakes/Leang by Meavis
Ulysses by Meavis
Dahlgur Oasis by Meavis
Red Rumbler by Meavis
Dune Trenches (2v2) by Meavis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brazil Time by DeltaCadimus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hell And Paradise by Xenotolerance
Korhal Pale Ivy by Xenotolerance
Cassiopeia by Xenotolerance
Morningside by Xenotolerance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thank you to all peeps with corones who showcased what they sent # saving esports <3 Thank avex we have filler content!
Features: Gold natural + possible gold third in center area (Added the natural gold because it wasn't Creative™ enough). Positional, medium-large size map otherwise.
(2) Illusions
Features: Potential gold third in the center has one very small path into it from the natural. If you don't take the gold, each base takes you closer to your opponent.
(2) Stairway to Oblivion
Features: Creep tumor on a possible third base. Center high ground is unbuildable.
(2) Black Ice
Features: There are large double islands in the corners that border the third and possible fourth base mineral lines. Rocks temporarily prevent normal ranged units from hitting the third base mineral line from the island.
(2) Vaunted Lab
Features: Lots of rocks. There is a potentially dangerous ridge above the alternate third base.
Got busier than expected so ended up just tweaking up another map I made waaay back in 2014. Changed up a few things as well, added a new base, not that happy with how the overview looks texture wise but I think it looks alright in game.
Tal'Darim Skylands Small backdoor with a gold mineral wall so might be "easy" to turtle but will have to worry about harass. Ledge above outside natural, 360 degrees of air space around your main. Fun times!
Do you guys (The_Templar and SidianTheBard) want to hear feedback/oppinions about your maps? Or is the deadline so close that you might as well not want to hear them, because there is no way they are gonna change now?
On February 10 2016 00:51 Salteador Neo wrote: Do you guys (The_Templar and SidianTheBard) want to hear feedback/oppinions about your maps? Or is the deadline so close that you might as well not want to hear them, because there is no way they are gonna change now?
Actually, I'm probably going to switch out one of my maps, and I'm pretty interested in feedback.
On February 10 2016 00:51 Salteador Neo wrote: Do you guys (The_Templar and SidianTheBard) want to hear feedback/oppinions about your maps? Or is the deadline so close that you might as well not want to hear them, because there is no way they are gonna change now?
Feel free if you'd like, I always appreciate feedback. =) Can post here or just PM me, either way!
On February 10 2016 00:51 Salteador Neo wrote: Do you guys (The_Templar and SidianTheBard) want to hear feedback/oppinions about your maps? Or is the deadline so close that you might as well not want to hear them, because there is no way they are gonna change now?
Actually, I'm probably going to switch out one of my maps, and I'm pretty interested in feedback.
Ok I'm most likely nowhere near good enough, but I'll try to give my honest opinions about your maps then:
Spaceship Station: Not a big fan of the gold nat + gold third. I think the gold nat is interesting and should stay, but adding also such an open gold third might create some imbalance favoring zerg, because zerg often gets a "free third" while the other races have a much harder time defending open bases against zerg. I'd consider moving the gold minerals to one of the further away bases and keep the third a normal base. Other than that it looks mighty fine.
Illusions: The general layout looks great, although the tileset is a bit boring/bland. I like how the gold base is open to the center while reinforcements can be blocked with a singe FF if the rocks are not broken *evil protoss laugh*
Stairway to Oblivion: Is it possible to place a creep tumor without the creep? It would be cool if Terran could clean it without wasting a scan (building a turret near it). I love the creep tumor idea anyway. Is the center choke completely blocked? Any fifth base should be so hard to defend! Probably my favorite one of the bunch.
Black Ice: The idea of big islands with 2 bases on each corner is scary, but that's what makes this map cool. The third mineral base being vulnerable to sieged tank attacks from the island might be an issue if terran doesn't even need to break the rocks. Other than that, I like this one a lot.
Vaunted Lab: While I like it because I love standard maps, I don't see Blizz picking such a macro/standard map when they are looking for innovative stuff. I like the idea of third bases being vulnerable to ridges in general, but I think it's nothing new. If you want to switch one out, I'd go for this.
GL, you sure have a great talent at making maps :D
On February 10 2016 00:51 Salteador Neo wrote: Do you guys (The_Templar and SidianTheBard) want to hear feedback/oppinions about your maps? Or is the deadline so close that you might as well not want to hear them, because there is no way they are gonna change now?
Actually, I'm probably going to switch out one of my maps, and I'm pretty interested in feedback.
Ok I'm most likely nowhere near good enough, but I'll try to give my honest opinions about your maps then:
Spaceship Station: Not a big fan of the gold nat + gold third. I think the gold nat is interesting and should stay, but adding also such an open gold third might create some imbalance favoring zerg, because zerg often gets a "free third" while the other races have a much harder time defending open bases against zerg. I'd consider moving the gold minerals to one of the further away bases and keep the third a normal base. Other than that it looks mighty fine.
Illusions: The general layout looks great, although the tileset is a bit boring/bland. I like how the gold base is open to the center while reinforcements can be blocked with a singe FF if the rocks are not broken *evil protoss laugh*
Stairway to Oblivion: Is it possible to place a creep tumor without the creep? It would be cool if Terran could clean it without wasting a scan (building a turret near it). I love the creep tumor idea anyway. Is the center choke completely blocked? Any fifth base should be so hard to defend! Probably my favorite one of the bunch.
Black Ice: The idea of big islands with 2 bases on each corner is scary, but that's what makes this map cool. The third mineral base being vulnerable to sieged tank attacks from the island might be an issue if terran doesn't even need to break the rocks. Other than that, I like this one a lot.
Vaunted Lab: While I like it because I love standard maps, I don't see Blizz picking such a macro/standard map when they are looking for innovative stuff. I like the idea of third bases being vulnerable to ridges in general, but I think it's nothing new. If you want to switch one out, I'd go for this.
GL, you sure have a great talent at making maps :D
Spaceship station: The gold natural was sort of forced on my end because the map wasn't really creative enough otherwise. It's also very... odd without a gold third also existing. I don't think the central gold really needs to be changed because a perfectly viable and much easier blue third for T/P also exists (the base vertical to the gold natural).
Illusions: I am really, really bad at aesthetics unless I copy another map's or use a really easy texture/doodad set.
Stairway to Oblivion: The center choke is completely blocked but the watchtower can be accessed from either side without breaking any rocks. Not sure about the creep tumor, but I could just place a neutral DT or something instead if the creep was an issue. Can't turrets see the tumor if they're build on the edge of creep anyway? Also I am again really bad at aesthetics.
Black Ice: No comment on this one.
Vaunted Lab: This is actually the one I'm considering switching out at the moment because of how standard it is, but I don't think I have any other decent layouts lying around, so we'll see.
On February 10 2016 10:24 NewSunshine wrote: Is it weird that I don't know what the "link to the online version of the map" is yet? Apparently that's needed.
I don't either, although I sorta know what it looks like. Can someone help a few mapmakers out?
On February 10 2016 10:24 NewSunshine wrote: Is it weird that I don't know what the "link to the online version of the map" is yet? Apparently that's needed.
I don't either, although I sorta know what it looks like. Can someone help a few mapmakers out?
The UX guys really need to get their shit together with the custom maps area. It is not horrible bad, but it could be so much simpler, I mean we don't even have stats of our own maps, *yet we need to do things like above to get some pretty important info to get our maps shared.*
//edit completed the idea*, after of hours and hours of setting maps tidy my brain is shutting down
It's eating me alive that Blizzard wrote explicitly they are not considering standard maps. Galactic Process is still #1, every day that map isn't on ladder I cry a single, icy tear
On February 10 2016 11:39 NewSunshine wrote: Submission complete, thanks Uvantak for the assist ^^
Archangel's Keep
Galactic Process
Inheritance
Lightning Eater
Pristine
All of these are amazing! Great job! I specially love Galactic Process for the possibilities of using the small miniroutes. All these remind me of BW maps somehow. Great work!
all these look very unique wouldn't be surprise if one made the cut. very nice maps!
need more maps with the Ohana or Bel'Shir Beach look. I need that beach feeling while laddering :D
Some cool submissions here. I feel that these community-made maps have less wide-open spaces in general than Blizz maps which is good. Blizz maps often have way too much open space without any ramps, cliffs or other features. Engagments have to be done way more intelligently and strategically if the map isn't just one terrain level open space in the middle
Long, narrow map - expansions progress toward your opponent in the late game
5 very narrow bridges split the map horizontally, restricting movement - with good army positioning, these can be used used to your advantage as choke points
Double entrance natural - one can be sealed with collapsible rocks
Choice of 3rd bases - the standard 3rd is further by ground but safer, and the forward 3rd is closer but vulnerable to air harass
Remnant (edited)
Creative™ features:
Center plateau with 2 gold bases is a semi-island, blocked off by rocks at 6 locations - destroy them to gain access
Heavily restricted pathing - players are limited to the outer ring in the early game, but destroying the rocks opens up additional attack routes through the center
Isolated late-game corner expansions with a very small entrance
Spectral Nation
Creative™ features:
Reversed third base orientation - close by ground but vulnerable to air harass
Low economy map - late game bases are hard to secure
Bounds: 174 x 152 Vertical spawns dissabled Maybe too standard, but I enjoy the layout so I figured why not? + Show Spoiler +
Collapsing Soil
Bounds: 128 x 148 Narrow Chokes and lots of dead space - perfect for zoning air units like libs, tempests and brood lords. The layout of the middle and the rocks used to be different. It had multiple 2x6 low hp rocks, but changed it as "advised" by blizzard. + Show Spoiler +
Really impressed by the maps seen here so far, gives hope for the next mappool. Loving IeZaeLl's maps, the aesthetics are unreal!
Didn't know about this thread until I saw it linked just now in the TLG reddit thread. Also didn't know about the "linking" thing for the submission (kind of crazy to list that as a requirement and not explain it -at all-). I'm hoping it didn't disqualify me . If so, ah well. Lots of cool maps so as long as they pick some that I like then I'll be happy. Way too many to mention, although that Tal'Darim Skylands map really surprised me, pretty simple layout but lots of cool things going on.
On February 19 2016 09:10 Cyanocyst wrote: I can't make maps at all. Though i've always wondered why so many maps are structured bases push the opponents closer and closer together.
I think a unique designed map would be one where there are bases available to take as a 4th or a 5th that are further from your opponent.
Not saying it has to be a short air rush map either, normal sized distance. Think kind of like a Mega Lotv desert oasis.
I think the map size would have to be sort of ridiculous if the air distance wasn't close, or it would be super turtly.
Good thing I didn't submit for this, I wouldn't have had a chance! Some really good submissions.
I'll just go ahead and call out some of my favorites.
SMA - KTV Dulcimer - Because of the excellent symmetry and grid-like pathing, and because wacky mains are the future. Raid - Because of the pure, unadulterated madness of it. Miris Spele - Because of the bridges, and because it looks so fun to fight north vs south. Pristine - Because it's basically a viable version of Lost Temple. Plus the rocks allow for heinous manipulation of distances. Collapsing Soil - Because of the willingness to experiment, and because of the BW-like tileset. Disperse - Because of the second entrance / overlook attached to the main. SMA Karoshi - Because of making island maps viable!
Cassiopeia (Looks like a pretty cool, smaller KSS) Spaceship Station (Ha!) Lightning Eater (4p, cool layout, gold bases, what is there for blizzard to not like) One of Uvantak’s maps Nemesis? Karoshi Random Avex map, hopefully something better than Invaders
Honestly, don't have a good feeling about this particular competition, but we will see.
On February 19 2016 12:01 NewSunshine wrote: I'm honestly disappointed, you guys only picked one of my maps apiece. I can only hope Blizzard has better taste.
On February 19 2016 12:01 NewSunshine wrote: I'm honestly disappointed, you guys only picked one of my maps apiece. I can only hope Blizzard has better taste.
We were missing this comment! After David Kim's blog post I realized that we never compiled all the maps from the thread and it was a mess needing to browse around, so here they are (mapmakers are in no particular order, because fuck the alphabet)
On March 13 2016 14:30 Uvantak wrote: We were missing this comment! After David Kim's blog post I realized that we never compiled all the maps from the thread and it was a mess needing to browse around, so here they are (mapmakers are in no particular order, because fuck the alphabet)
Yeah, apparently I accidentally cropped them out when I realized that Sidian had made two posts instead of the one.
Also, I hadn't seen Vaunted Lab, it is a pretty cool map, there are some details that could be improved here like the highground in front of the blocked third (make it lowground instead), or even remove the rocks at the third completely because you already have the ramp leading to it to ease the walloff of the natural.
/edit It seems that there is a missplaced mineral patch at the 6 oclock expa!
On March 14 2016 02:19 Uvantak wrote: Yeah, apparently I accidentally cropped them out when I realized that Sidian had made two posts instead of the one.
Also, I hadn't seen Vaunted Lab, it is a pretty cool map, there are some details that could be improved here like the highground in front of the blocked third (make it lowground instead), or even remove the rocks at the third completely because you already have the ramp leading to it to ease the walloff of the natural.
/edit It seems that there is a missplaced mineral patch at the 6 oclock expa!
I actually replaced that map with a pretty awful creative™ map at the last second since it felt too standard to me. :\
Oh, I never even saw this thread. It's unfortunate that what I feel are my best maps weren't even made until after the submissions deadline, minus Detox.
Here were my submissions:
Detox
Rain City
Invader
Purified Forge
Of course PF would never make it due to the superbase at the 12 o'clock. I was moderately happy with those maps at the time, but really wish I had conceptualized maps like Synchestra or Namaste at that time.
EPT
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