EPTOn December 19 2015 20:44 TedBurtle wrote:
sorry, can someone explain: what is BW balance??
i never played BW and dont know what it means.
sorry, can someone explain: what is BW balance??
i never played BW and dont know what it means.
P>T>Z>P
[Interviews] State of LotV - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Penev
28472 Posts
P>T>Z>P | ||
|
NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On December 19 2015 10:30 Berry_CruncH wrote: Well considering Terran's performance against both races. Along with Protoss' performance vs Zerg. And the fact that Solar is complaining while having won two tournaments in LOTV already... It's pretty safe to assume that the general consensus is that Zerg is strong, Terran is weak and that Zerg players are scared of the incoming nerfs. additionally,parting was hungover and hasnt played nearly as much LotV as solar. at the end of hots PartinG was not close to Solars level. The fact that it was as close as it was, is absolutely stupid yet you have protosses bitching because they can no longer 7gate into autogg | ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On December 19 2015 20:44 TedBurtle wrote: sorry, can someone explain: what is BW balance?? i never played BW and dont know what it means. P>T>Z>P. It was very slight. | ||
|
Ctesias
4595 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:21 Ctesias wrote: So progamers are just as biased as the viewers. Nothing new there. 2 out of 3 Protosses admitted to thinking that P>T, it is going somewhere. | ||
|
i_am_Nite
Russian Federation66 Posts
| ||
|
imre
France9263 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:31 Elentos wrote: 2 out of 3 Protosses admitted to thinking that P>T, it is going somewhere. actually it's incredible. When TvP was okish Rain was saying T was worse than blord/infestor. Admitting something in your race is broken often means there is a real problem (and if we nerf adepts we'll probably see the problem with liberators) | ||
|
A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
Game got much faster. But overlord same speed. So overlord scout is very late. Drone and Ling no scout cause wall-in and strong early P/T units. Difficult time for Zerg. Solar is an amazing player and I have to agree that Partin was very very very weak in finals and threw the game. If Parting was as good as Solar then Parting would've won tournament. I hope David Kim makes smart decision and not listen to the wrong people. I play zerg ladder. 85% win rate in ZvZ 40% win rate in ZvP 34% win rate in ZvT Sometimes you play, and grandmaster opponent on korea strong. They know push timings when they hurt most. From playing on korea ladder GM I can tell you what happens in next time. Protoss will start building more phoenix. Zerg has to counter with Hydras then Protoss build Adepts with upgrade and win with timing push before Lurker finishes because Lurker den very late. It will come to other regions soon aswell. Believe my word | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
| ||
|
A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:00 [PkF] Wire wrote: If adepts are broken, nerf them. Good idea. I think life of adepts a little bit too high. Or damage against non-light units. It is hard from my perspective. Are adepts good in PvT? If adept strong in PvT and PvZ then they need nerf very fast or integrity of starcraft 2 is in danger. | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:02 A_needle_jog wrote: Good idea. I think life of adepts a little bit too high. Or damage against non-light units. It is hard from my perspective. Are adepts good in PvT? If adept strong in PvT and PvZ then they need nerf very fast or integrity of starcraft 2 is in danger. Adepts are too good early game but quite ok later on. A slight adept nerf aimed at PvT + some T buff would be good. | ||
|
imre
France9263 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:07 [PkF] Wire wrote: Adepts are too good early game but quite ok later on. A slight adept nerf aimed at PvT + some T buff would be good. Augment shade cooldown would reduce the abuse imo. | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:11 sAsImre wrote: Augment shade cooldown would reduce the abuse imo. Definitely yeah. Far too easy to swing between harass points right now. | ||
|
Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
I mean.. Not hard to see the difference in quality on how good the units are. | ||
|
johax
Sweden165 Posts
did you even see the games vs parting? solar won 2 macro games where parting let solar make a spire and save up for a big wave of mutas without scouting it whatsoever. the games where parting acutally scouted the spire he looked near to unbeatable. the other two map wins for solar where games where parting decided to cheese and even then made big mistakes. solar didn't win because of zerg, he won because parting didn't scout properly and for some reason decided to allin. | ||
|
A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:39 johax wrote: people who say that zerg is too strong, and saying things like solar won dh, how can zerg be weak? did you even see the games vs parting? solar won 2 macro games where parting let solar make a spire and save up for a big wave of mutas without scouting it whatsoever. the games where parting acutally scouted the spire he looked near to unbeatable. the other two map wins for solar where games where parting decided to cheese and even then made big mistakes. solar didn't win because of zerg, he won because parting didn't scout properly and for some reason decided to allin. Good post from sweden. I quote because truth needs to be the dominant factor in starcraft and not bias. Keep on the good posts  | ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12139 Posts
Oh, protoss is doing the winning? Nerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerf | ||
|
Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:51 A_needle_jog wrote: Good post from sweden. I quote because truth needs to be the dominant factor in starcraft and not bias. Keep on the good posts A zerg says that zerg isn't OP. Another zerg comes along and says that it is correct, and that we should avoid bias. As a zerg, listen to yourself cerebrate! :D We are all biased. Ok that out of the way, good. They all seem to agree with each other, right? At least after you subtract a bit of above mentioned bias from everyone. Z >> P >>> T > Z This can actually cause Zergs to come out on top, as the tosses kick out all the terrans through the strongest imbalance, and the zergs can rein over the remaining tosses and zergs. I actually made a mathematical model explaining that in a BW context many (8!) years ago, although at that point it was Z > P that was the strongest imbalance which caused T to come out on top. The model. That would fit with how T are ok with TvZ but complain about TvP, P are ok with PvT (or even admit P is favoured!), but complain about PvZ, and finally says everything is fine, but ZvT is too hard. So yeah, then the solution would be to "fix" TvP, together with a matching nerf to Z to dampen the Z >> P a bit, but without letting the T > Z go out of control. Lurkers maybe? | ||
|
Elentos
55510 Posts
On December 20 2015 00:00 Nebuchad wrote: Oh, protoss is doing the winning? Nerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerf Damn it that was supposed to be a secret, who let you in on this? This info was for non-Protoss only! Heads will roll for this! | ||
|
A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
On December 20 2015 00:21 Cascade wrote: A zerg says that zerg isn't OP. Another zerg comes along and says that it is correct, and that we should avoid bias. As a zerg, listen to yourself cerebrate! :D We are all biased. Ok that out of the way, good. They all seem to agree with each other, right? At least after you subtract a bit of above mentioned bias from everyone. Z >> P >>> T > Z This can actually cause Zergs to come out on top, as the tosses kick out all the terrans through the strongest imbalance, and the zergs can rein over the remaining tosses and zergs. I actually made a mathematical model explaining that in a BW context many (8!) years ago, although at that point it was Z > P that was the strongest imbalance which caused T to come out on top. The model. That would fit with how T are ok with TvZ but complain about TvP, P are ok with PvT (or even admit P is favoured!), but complain about PvZ, and finally says everything is fine, but ZvT is too hard. So yeah, then the solution would be to "fix" TvP, together with a matching nerf to Z to dampen the Z >> P a bit, but without letting the T > Z go out of control. Lurkers maybe? It is good post, but sorry Solar is pro gamer who many experience and knows good. Try play zerg. you need much apm for it to deflect attacks. very hard ^^ it is frustrating to defend reaper, liberator, adept, warp prism, oracle, medivac marines, medivac tanks, hellions, hellbats, dark templars. Zerg has no harass. I want to harass enemy too  | ||
| ||
