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On December 12 2015 21:17 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 19:46 Sissors wrote:On December 12 2015 18:50 Asturas wrote:I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill  On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo. I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame. I don't thing it will be a too popular opinion around here, but I agree with you. And I don't think the issue is as much that is gets too hard to play, since your opponent has the same issue. However it does make it less and less a strategy game, and more a moba in the end. Every single Protoss unit has some silly quirk to it, and 80% of them have activated abilities too.
Not that much. You are right quite some of them have it, however many also don't, or which are auto-activated so I don't count them (such as Zealot charge. Also new immortal ability does not count imo).
However looking at the new LotV units:
Ravager -> relies on ability which needs to be manually casted
Lurker -> Need to manually burrow/unburrow all the time, but in principle a quite normal unit
(Viper -> Got yet another ability)
Disruptor: Completely relies on ability to be manually casted
Adept: Largely relies on its ability
Liberator: Somewhere in between, since it is not really casting, but still in practise you are constantly switching its region where it needs to function (alot more than a siege tank, and you need to do it for each individually)
Cyclone: Completely relies on ability, which can be autocasted, but is pretty crap at that with more than one target/more than one cyclone
So for me the lurker is the only new normal units in LotV, and then still one which needs quite some babysitting. Pretty much all others are new casters.
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I guess it's nice to know that David Kim doesn't give a shit about our opinion. I mean, we all knew it, but it's nice to see this get put into words.
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I agree with blizzard about the maps, but only if we ll be able to veto 5 maps out of 7!!!!!
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On December 13 2015 05:58 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 21:17 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 12 2015 19:46 Sissors wrote:On December 12 2015 18:50 Asturas wrote:I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo. I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame. I don't thing it will be a too popular opinion around here, but I agree with you. And I don't think the issue is as much that is gets too hard to play, since your opponent has the same issue. However it does make it less and less a strategy game, and more a moba in the end. Every single Protoss unit has some silly quirk to it, and 80% of them have activated abilities too. Not that much. You are right quite some of them have it, however many also don't, or which are auto-activated so I don't count them (such as Zealot charge. Also new immortal ability does not count imo). However looking at the new LotV units: Ravager -> relies on ability which needs to be manually casted Lurker -> Need to manually burrow/unburrow all the time, but in principle a quite normal unit (Viper -> Got yet another ability) Disruptor: Completely relies on ability to be manually casted Adept: Largely relies on its ability Liberator: Somewhere in between, since it is not really casting, but still in practise you are constantly switching its region where it needs to function (alot more than a siege tank, and you need to do it for each individually) Cyclone: Completely relies on ability, which can be autocasted, but is pretty crap at that with more than one target/more than one cyclone So for me the lurker is the only new normal units in LotV, and then still one which needs quite some babysitting. Pretty much all others are new casters.
The Adept does not largely rely on its ability at all. It's very useful early game and for harass, but in the mid-game it's not that important.
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On December 13 2015 04:03 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 03:05 MiCroLiFe wrote:
is this a joke?? Terran is more than enough challenging.. and now you make ultra super imba so we are forced to do somthing else?
explain me. What can we do under theese days? air is dead because viper. mech isnt viable because its to immobile Ghost, gets shut down whit fungal (i had 40 ghost one game, splittet, stil wasnt enough) Ravager counters liberators and tanks. so yeah.. WHAT the hell shal we do other than mmm? How did you lost 40 ghost???
Fungal cancels the snipe and ultra is pretty unkillable
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On December 13 2015 03:42 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 03:12 wjat wrote:
Well I would like to thanks Blizzard. I am having a ton of fun playing Legacy right now and I even enjoy watching the tournaments that are going on. Even the one with Foreigners. Basetrade, Nationwars, WW3... soon GSL and proleague...
I don't like the maps Lerilak Crest and Central Protocol but I guess that's why I have a "vetomap" options. And I have the feeling they won't stay in the ladder pool for next season.
I agree with the fact that Ultras are too strong vs bio. In some situations it looks really sad for the terran. I also think Parasic Bomb is killing Air. I hope they will tune it down. Overall zerg became more funny to play with.
Disruptor are fun but I am scared it might become boring at one point in PvP. The pylon overcharge might be too strong. I still think that the warp prism is overpowered: the micro you can do with it and some adepts is too strong.
I am still not sure if tanks need buff damage or not. The bomb of the reaper need to be tuned down. They are killing TvT and TvZ. I think the liberators are in a good place now. It's really a huge investment and you really have to strategically decide what you want to do with them.
Well thanks again Blizzard. I am happy. read the map section again, you will see all these maps again with no replacements next season
If the community rage against those two map in particular there is no way Blizzard keep them in next season!
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On December 13 2015 07:05 wjat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 03:42 Meavis wrote:On December 13 2015 03:12 wjat wrote:
Well I would like to thanks Blizzard. I am having a ton of fun playing Legacy right now and I even enjoy watching the tournaments that are going on. Even the one with Foreigners. Basetrade, Nationwars, WW3... soon GSL and proleague...
I don't like the maps Lerilak Crest and Central Protocol but I guess that's why I have a "vetomap" options. And I have the feeling they won't stay in the ladder pool for next season.
I agree with the fact that Ultras are too strong vs bio. In some situations it looks really sad for the terran. I also think Parasic Bomb is killing Air. I hope they will tune it down. Overall zerg became more funny to play with.
Disruptor are fun but I am scared it might become boring at one point in PvP. The pylon overcharge might be too strong. I still think that the warp prism is overpowered: the micro you can do with it and some adepts is too strong.
I am still not sure if tanks need buff damage or not. The bomb of the reaper need to be tuned down. They are killing TvT and TvZ. I think the liberators are in a good place now. It's really a huge investment and you really have to strategically decide what you want to do with them.
Well thanks again Blizzard. I am happy. read the map section again, you will see all these maps again with no replacements next season If the community rage against those two map in particular there is no way Blizzard keep them in next season!
They don't seem to mind the current dislike for the map pool in the slightest, also im curious what "map we know works well" will replace one, considering how few maps have been in lotv
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I like the current maps, there's alot of diversity in the openings right now and it does keep the game fun. Plus I finally got all my openings worked out for them and I'd like to keep working on them. But I'm Zerg, I'm sure I'd hate Prion / Central if I was toss.
I don't see anything wrong with Lerilak.
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On December 13 2015 07:05 wjat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 03:42 Meavis wrote:On December 13 2015 03:12 wjat wrote:
Well I would like to thanks Blizzard. I am having a ton of fun playing Legacy right now and I even enjoy watching the tournaments that are going on. Even the one with Foreigners. Basetrade, Nationwars, WW3... soon GSL and proleague...
I don't like the maps Lerilak Crest and Central Protocol but I guess that's why I have a "vetomap" options. And I have the feeling they won't stay in the ladder pool for next season.
I agree with the fact that Ultras are too strong vs bio. In some situations it looks really sad for the terran. I also think Parasic Bomb is killing Air. I hope they will tune it down. Overall zerg became more funny to play with.
Disruptor are fun but I am scared it might become boring at one point in PvP. The pylon overcharge might be too strong. I still think that the warp prism is overpowered: the micro you can do with it and some adepts is too strong.
I am still not sure if tanks need buff damage or not. The bomb of the reaper need to be tuned down. They are killing TvT and TvZ. I think the liberators are in a good place now. It's really a huge investment and you really have to strategically decide what you want to do with them.
Well thanks again Blizzard. I am happy. read the map section again, you will see all these maps again with no replacements next season If the community rage against those two map in particular there is no way Blizzard keep them in next season!
Exactly, because blizzard is known for listening to the community, what can go wrong :D
"We want more diversity from terrans and not just MMMM", so we force them to build another bio unit to counter the counter that counters bio. Counterception is real. Mech is not really viable. skyterran isnt possible due parasitic bomb and a decent zerg will spread its corruptors and they wreck a lot, terran cant remax that fast and massing vikings is suicide because when the air is empty they dont do much when they are landed.....
So Terran is in a limbo with a bandaid unit aka liberator. And thats just the tip of the iceberg of problems.
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On December 13 2015 06:18 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 04:03 RaFox17 wrote:On December 13 2015 03:05 MiCroLiFe wrote:
is this a joke?? Terran is more than enough challenging.. and now you make ultra super imba so we are forced to do somthing else?
explain me. What can we do under theese days? air is dead because viper. mech isnt viable because its to immobile Ghost, gets shut down whit fungal (i had 40 ghost one game, splittet, stil wasnt enough) Ravager counters liberators and tanks. so yeah.. WHAT the hell shal we do other than mmm? How did you lost 40 ghost??? Fungal cancels the snipe and ultra is pretty unkillable
So terrible micro/positioning.
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I really don't understand the complaints here.
Imo blizzard is addressing most of the discussion I saw online and just because you don't agree with their idea there is no reason to shit on the entire community feedback thing.
Regarding this community feedback, especially the ultra armor thing, I think I agree with incontrol's article .
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On December 13 2015 17:02 Yiome wrote:I really don't understand the complaints here. Imo blizzard is addressing most of the discussion I saw online and just because you don't agree with their idea there is no reason to shit on the entire community feedback thing. Regarding this community feedback, especially the ultra armor thing, I think I agree with incontrol's article .
The problem is shit like ultras getting a random buff out of nowhere and Terrans have no real weapons to compensate. Ghosts are clunky as hell, and don't really fit into a Terran army, Liberators are great, but do we really need another unit that hard counters another? Other than those two units, there's really not much that Terrans can use. And that's really the heart of the issue. Terran still is playing HOTS style, while everyone else has moved on to other compositions, other styles that were made more viable by LOTV. Don't tell me not to use MMM, give me another option instead of nerfing the shit out of my marauders and making Ultras run over everything.
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On December 13 2015 18:00 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 17:02 Yiome wrote:I really don't understand the complaints here. Imo blizzard is addressing most of the discussion I saw online and just because you don't agree with their idea there is no reason to shit on the entire community feedback thing. Regarding this community feedback, especially the ultra armor thing, I think I agree with incontrol's article . The problem is shit like ultras getting a random buff out of nowhere and Terrans have no real weapons to compensate. Ghosts are clunky as hell, and don't really fit into a Terran army, Liberators are great, but do we really need another unit that hard counters another? Other than those two units, there's really not much that Terrans can use. And that's really the heart of the issue. Terran still is playing HOTS style, while everyone else has moved on to other compositions, other styles that were made more viable by LOTV. Don't tell me not to use MMM, give me another option instead of nerfing the shit out of my marauders and making Ultras run over everything.
Its not only the Ultralisk that got a random buff, but so many things got buffed, the lings, broodlords, infestors etc etc
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491202-lotv-multiplayer-changes-compilation
The ultralisk buff has been questioned since the start of the beta, and over time blizzard came up with the ghost as a solution. Let's create an artificial gigantic nerf for terran, more micro and another bio unit. So we go from MMM to MMMGhost. WEOW! So when they buffed the ultra, what was the tradeoff? micro the ultras so they dont die with a-move while terran is microing by kiting the unit like in hots? no, its so beefy and strong you can focus elsewhere so there isnt any tradeoff, a huge buff on top of all the other things.
When we look at the list of terran "buffs" its mostly nerfs, removed abilities or another expensive upgrade before it gets useful. So terran is stuck to bio, but blizzard wants to see more diversity but that is not possible in the current state.
On top of that, all the extra micro, more simcity in every MU etc its just getting silly.
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infestor ravager combo is even better than broodlord infestor in WoL
lethal, cheaper and faster. wtf blizzard
i think even david kim didnt know about ravager infestor combo when he made that unit lol
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On December 13 2015 23:13 nubHunter wrote:
infestor ravager combo is even better than broodlord infestor in WoL
better, cheaper and faster. wtf blizzard
Yes. That must be true or maybe, just maybe you might be exaggerating a tiny bit.
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On December 13 2015 23:17 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 23:13 nubHunter wrote:
infestor ravager combo is even better than broodlord infestor in WoL
better, cheaper and faster. wtf blizzard Yes. That must be true or maybe, just maybe you might be exaggerating a tiny bit.
cry more little zerg.
infestor-ravager combo cost less resources than WoL broodlord-infestor, moves a lot faster, the timming is earlier.
atleast it requires a little more skill with the new infestor projectile, but if your brain and hands are in a good shape it is easy to execute.
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On December 13 2015 23:22 nubHunter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 23:17 RaFox17 wrote:On December 13 2015 23:13 nubHunter wrote:
infestor ravager combo is even better than broodlord infestor in WoL
better, cheaper and faster. wtf blizzard Yes. That must be true or maybe, just maybe you might be exaggerating a tiny bit. cry more little zerg. infestor-ravager combo cost less resources than WoL broodlord-infestor, moves a lot faster, the timming is earlier. atleast it requires a little more skill with the new infestor projectile, but if your brain and hands are in a good shape it is easy to execute.
Still don´t think that is even close to the strength of the old BL/infestor. Also i´m about average size for a man.
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On December 13 2015 23:27 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 23:22 nubHunter wrote:On December 13 2015 23:17 RaFox17 wrote:On December 13 2015 23:13 nubHunter wrote:
infestor ravager combo is even better than broodlord infestor in WoL
better, cheaper and faster. wtf blizzard Yes. That must be true or maybe, just maybe you might be exaggerating a tiny bit. cry more little zerg. infestor-ravager combo cost less resources than WoL broodlord-infestor, moves a lot faster, the timming is earlier. atleast it requires a little more skill with the new infestor projectile, but if your brain and hands are in a good shape it is easy to execute. Still don´t think that is even close to the strength of the old BL/infestor. Also i´m about average size for a man.
He said zerg, not man. Joke's on you!
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Happy to see they're at least realizing that Disruptors completely murdered PvP.
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EPT
