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nubHunter
Spain44 Posts
On December 13 2015 23:27 RaFox17 wrote: Still don´t think that is even close to the strength of the old BL/infestor. Also i´m about average size for a man. it is not better in power, but it is better if you consider the timming, the resource cost and the speed of the army. | ||
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cop354g
61 Posts
Terran issues are biggest in Lotv than ever before with new additions to other races, terrans got just a bone. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 13 2015 17:02 Yiome wrote: I really don't understand the complaints here. Imo blizzard is addressing most of the discussion I saw online and just because you don't agree with their idea there is no reason to shit on the entire community feedback thing. Regarding this community feedback, especially the ultra armor thing, I think I agree with incontrol's article . The problem with the idea behind the Incontrol's article is Blizzard obviously hasn't been doing this. If they really wanted to have a "buff everything" contest then they wouldn't be content with making previously strong units into borderline useless. Colossus is hot garbage now, Ravens are garbage, Swarm Host is garbage, etc. DK has already stated that he buffed the Ultra to make force Terran variety, but the problem was they had no viable counter. They had to make the counter through Ghosts, and it was sloppily done. You can't just buff everything and expect stuff to be okay. It just doesn't work like that. There has to be a flow to the game that every race can follow and interact with. That flow is obviously there with Zerg. In fact I have the opinion they're the best designed race in SC2, but Terran has a bunch of trap units that you could not possibly know about until experienced, and Protoss' design is as bad as Blizzard's chat system. The problem with SC2 isn't in balance, it's in design. The reason why we can't buff everything is due to the hard counter system. This is the biggest reason why Ultralisks (and Vipers) can't stay the way they are. Lets keep in mind that even though the focus has been on TvZ, it's actually PvZ that's has been getting shat all over through these changes. | ||
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Elentos
55466 Posts
On December 13 2015 23:50 cop354g wrote: Fact is, that terran has always been really out of place-race in SC2. Zerg and protoss are far more suited to the fast pace nature of SC2 because of superior mechanics. Terran is extremely inflexible, clunky, and horribly slow race. Its so much easier for especially Zerg to be constantly mobile and take the map while terran is forced to turtle inside 2-3base and every time terran moves out its 100% gamble. Drops are not effective at all in sc2 because defences are so good and terran has hard time fightning straight up so whats left for terran? Terran issues are biggest in Lotv than ever before with new additions to other races, terrans got just a bone. As much as I like to complain about other races, Terran isn't a slow race, and especially bio play isn't meant to be turtling at all but rather to be constantly aggressive. Drop play was the core of TvP for the longest time and always had its place in TvZ. Also, for LotV, Terran was given both mobility buffs and buffs in straight-up engagements. In terms of mobility, we were given the - criminally underused - medivac upgrade that makes their boost last a lot longer; as well as the ability to pick up sieged tanks; and a movement speed buff for ghosts. In terms of straight-up engagements, ghosts got a buff to their snipe which can do massive damage now, and we were given liberators. | ||
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cop354g
61 Posts
On December 14 2015 00:00 Elentos wrote: As much as I like to complain about other races, Terran isn't a slow race, and especially bio play isn't meant to be turtling at all but rather to be constantly aggressive. Drop play was the core of TvP for the longest time and always had its place in TvZ. Also, for LotV, Terran was given both mobility buffs and buffs in straight-up engagements. In terms of mobility, we were given the - criminally underused - medivac upgrade that makes their boost last a lot longer; as well as the ability to pick up sieged tanks; and a movement speed buff for ghosts. In terms of straight-up engagements, ghosts got a buff to their snipe which can do massive damage now, and we were given liberators. Terran is mechanically way too slow for how SC2 works. There is reason why zerg has for years been the most consistently top placing race. Zerg is simply easier race to be good at. Zerg has superior remaxing capabilities, superior mobility, better unit design etc. Terran still plays very much the same way as in early days of WoL, only with little twist from Liberators which dont solve core issues of terran. Terran needs changes where the race actually can dictate the flow of the game and force decisions on Zerg/protoss rather than being the one who has to react to every possible permutations of what Zerg/protoss can do in fog of war. Terran also needs units like: -Goliaths: strong and massable multipurpose GtG/GtA-unit that doesnt die instantly on ravagers/parasitic bombs/fungals. -Better siege tanks | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
Im stil 70% winrate and 40% on the others. if its a year or so and ultras and adepts are stil this strong, i might change race if i ever want to get GM | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States671 Posts
I like disruptors as they are, but the +shields dmg did seem kind of random. Parasitic bomb is too strong. Decrease aoe. I like photon overcharge as it is. Increasing duration and cost makes for less things to do, which is bad. I'm actually really happy with all the other units as they are. LotV is much better than HotS. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 13 2015 23:50 cop354g wrote: Fact is, that terran has always been really out of place-race in SC2. Zerg and protoss are far more suited to the fast pace nature of SC2 because of superior mechanics. Terran is extremely inflexible, clunky, and horribly slow race. Its so much easier for especially Zerg to be constantly mobile and take the map while terran is forced to turtle inside 2-3base and every time terran moves out its 100% gamble. Drops are not effective at all in sc2 because defences are so good and terran has hard time fightning straight up so whats left for terran? Terran issues are biggest in Lotv than ever before with new additions to other races, terrans got just a bone. Terran is the slow race? Go back to 2015 PvT and watch any good Terran run circles around Protoss who have no way to break up their deathball. Terran has plenty of problems but bio is one of, if not the, most mobile composition in the game. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On December 13 2015 05:07 DemigodcelpH wrote: Parasitic Bomb needs immediate nerfs, and Photon Overcharge does not need "compensation". It's spammable and needs a straight nerf. I don't like Photon Overcharge at all, but Protoss is seriously hurting right now and needs it to just stay in the game early. So Protoss does need compensation of some sort if it is going to be nerfed. On December 13 2015 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote: Happy to see they're at least realizing that Disruptors completely murdered PvP. SC2 really needs a new design team. Anyone remember the 30 damage Zealot charge? Yeah that seemed balanced to someone on the design team at one point... seriously... It took me one game to realize that PvP would revolve around Disruptors essentially forever... at least until they received major changes. Force Fields should block their shots in addition to them doing less shield damage. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On December 12 2015 04:08 Big J wrote: @Parasitic Bomb: Fully agree that this ability is very strong and we only don't see it that often because people just don't go air against zerg to begin with. I think an interesting tweak would be to delay the effect by a few seconds after it hit, or start the damage off lower and increase it after a few seconds. This would work well with the ability to split the affected units away from others. Maybe that's not enough but it would be interesting and increase counterplay against the ability. This is a good idea. Maybe make it an auto hit projectile, a bit like HSM. And running away will give you even more time before impact with travel time. With red highlight and so on. Gives a few seconds to split the unit off. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 14 2015 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't like Photon Overcharge at all, but Protoss is seriously hurting right now and needs it to just stay in the game early. So Protoss does need compensation of some sort if it is going to be nerfed. Yes, but they need real compensation. To be fair, maybe (initially) the Photon Overcharge needs compensation too, but it is a bandaid for the real problem. To be fair, I am not a toss player, and I don't know their exact problems really. Few days ago I saw Harstem fight Polt with purely gateway units vs terran who besides MMM also had ghosts and liberators. Sure in the end he lost, but I don't think we can with adepts really say their gateway units are shit. Maybe give zealots instead of their stupid damage on impact with charge, high armor when charge is activated for a flat few seconds or so. Or hell, just reboost Colossus to where it used to be. At the same time I am also not really a fan of the adepts who murder an entire mineral line in a few seconds and teleport around. Unless you got your Cyclone in the right position, and you completely ruin the day of the protoss. Quite frankly, if with whatever option that adept drop is nerfed, I don't think regarding PvT openings protoss will suffer that much, for starters it might make air openings viable again. Right now I just always make sure I got a cyclone, since otherwise adept drop pretty much kills me instantly. However it also means that everytime I see an oracle it is generally easy kill for my Cyclone. And then the problem is of course everything is connected. As terran I could possibly agree that the Cyclone is as early unit on the strong side. Nerfing it would help protoss with the early harrasment, but at the same time Cyclone is really not in a position to be nerfed. I don't think that lockon is ever going to be a good idea. Anyway back to the original point: I don't see the photon overcharge as something any race, including protoss, should be happy about. It is just to hide the real problems. If it were up to me I would even remove the entire MsC. Make sure they don't need to rely on their supply depots doing terrible damage, and if they need something against lategame drops/runbys, add an upgrade, we can call it photon overcharge, which boosts photon cannons. That said, I have my doubts if the solution to flanks/runbys/drops should be that you just make some static defense and go back your deathball. | ||
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SpecKROELLchen
Germany151 Posts
I think the meta with ghosts,bio lib vs ultra/broodlords/ravager etc. is really nice but like in WoL its squishy on the terran side. 1 mistake, like getting hit by 1 fungal can end the game instantly, while the z is allowed to do more mistakes. In addition i think the damage output of the cracklings will be a problem in the future. In some scenarios in the game it was crazy what they did, like sniping the planetary etc. In addition i dont see any scenario where the thor can get useful either in tvp or tvz because its countered by units like immortals and cannot deny ravager or disruptor hits. Anyways the game makes so much fun right now | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 15 2015 01:12 Xequecal wrote: Ultralisks are even worse in ZvP, Protoss has a grand total of two units that can actually deal damage to them, and Archons are nowhere near cost effective. Protoss has nothing to tank them while Immortals deal damage as both Adepts and Zealots get splash killed in seconds. Also Adepts are barely cost-effective against upgraded Zerglings so in large engagements where say 33% of your Adepts are attacking Ultras and 33% of your Immortals are attacking zerglings instead of their counter target, you just get rolled over in seconds due to inefficiency. And even if you do manage to kill the army, the tech switch remax will inevitably kill Protoss. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On December 15 2015 02:00 HeroMystic wrote: And even if you do manage to kill the army, the tech switch remax will inevitably kill Protoss. Always assuming that zerg has 3k/3k bank. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 15 2015 02:23 RaFox17 wrote: Always assuming that zerg has 3k/3k bank. How does Protoss kill Zerg when he's turtling with units that Protoss can't kill with Stalker/Immortal? Pray for Lucky Disruptor shots? This was repeated constantly in tournament games. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On December 15 2015 02:54 Xequecal wrote: Well, you could make Tempests.....oh wait Zerg has Vipers, all air is useless. Ah come on! Tempests 450 HP and PB does 70. For real! | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 15 2015 03:04 WrathSCII wrote: Ah come on! Tempests 450 HP and PB does 70. For real! It does 90 and it stacks. Which makes it very powerful against air, to say the least | ||
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