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On December 12 2015 12:39 Aegwynn wrote:
@Overcharge
What is the point of inscreasing time along with the energy? So the protoss players click less? MoCo just killed all kind of early aggressive moves vs protoss and it is definetly less fun not being able to harrass your opponent. The damage is just too much.
The point is so toss have less burst DPS, and have to actually consider if they really want to use overcharge. I have seen pro's overcharge pylons to kill a single zergling, and I am not even making that up. In HotS no toss would be stupid enough to do that, simply because the energy cost was much too high to do that.
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On December 12 2015 17:29 RoomOfMush wrote:
the tl;dr version of the blizzard update:
"We know about the things you dont like, but we are not going to change them."
=> that exactly.
What they basically said about the ultra is "terrans can manage to deal some damage when the zerg is transitioning ultras.". No shit sherlock, most pro zergs still die to mid game against terran. But not because they're rofltomped by a single unit, because the economy and the compositions have changed (terran got bio figured out, while zergs still learn to use ravagers). However, just watch soulkey playing, ffs. When he reaches T3 without dying, he just masses lings and ultras until the terran dies. Just lings and ultras, nothing else. Because terran has no real counter.
- thors can't really be used because you've got to go bio
- tanks are still terrible
- marauders are atrocious, they deal like 10 damage with +3 atk
- ghosts... let's talk about it. The snipe deals 170 damage with 1,43 sec chargeup, for 50 energy. That's nice. But that means you need 4 sniper shots to kill an ultra. Which means you either need 4 ghosts, which is 8 pop and 800/400. Or you need a full energy ghost, but it'll take 5,6 seconds or so. Real time seconds. That's huge.
So yay we've got a gimmicky counter that doesn't really works when there's too much ultra, while the rest of the terran army deals litterally no damage.
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On December 12 2015 03:26 WrathSCII wrote:
Maps
The Legacy of the Void maps are surprisingly turning out much better than we had hoped. While not perfect, there have not been any major game breaking issues with any of the new maps yet. In the past for example, some new maps have had simple all-in strategies that one race could do in a specific matchup and it would be nearly impossible to stop between two players of equal skill levels. We’re definitely not seeing any of that yet.
Dusk Towers PvT
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8,3 % is balanced mate. Why? BECAUSE THE MAP POOL IS AMAZING.
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I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill 
On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo.
I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame.
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On December 12 2015 18:50 Asturas wrote:I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo. I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame.
I don't thing it will be a too popular opinion around here, but I agree with you. And I don't think the issue is as much that is gets too hard to play, since your opponent has the same issue. However it does make it less and less a strategy game, and more a moba in the end.
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Parasitic Bomb Strength
We agree that due to the current strength of this ability, we’re not seeing a lot of air unit interactions that we could. We’ve been discussing your suggestions as well as exploring potential redesigns such as adding friendly fire so that positioning and counter play is increased more. Currently, we don’t quite have a specific alignment on our end on this front, but we wanted to let you know that this is a topic that we’re aggressively discussing right now. An issue with Parasitic Bomb is that due to the threat of the ability, we’re not seeing a lot of air unit interaction in general, we wonder if the solve is as simple as a numbers nerf to see what happens, and then maybe we can go from there.
Here is an idea - Instead of casting the bomb on enemy units, make it usable only on friendly units, when the zerg player make his units "the bomb" he needs to move them ontop of the enemy units.
Some interesting gameplay consequences that could happen:
Phoenix vs muta will be back, but this time if the zerg manages to catch/park ontop of the phoenix, they lose, if not then phoenix wins
Muta vs muta will be interesting to watch, it would be something like split squads of mutas dancing around and parasited overlords/overseers charging intop the mix
Bomb vs heavy air will be something like trying to snipe the bombs before it gets ontop of your units, (sort of like in bw vs scourges)
I think this idea have the potential to be a fair solution for all.
Or if the bomb cannot possibly be balanced or made good, simply replace the skill with new skill - spawn scourges for energy
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On December 12 2015 19:46 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 18:50 Asturas wrote:I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo. I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame. I don't thing it will be a too popular opinion around here, but I agree with you. And I don't think the issue is as much that is gets too hard to play, since your opponent has the same issue. However it does make it less and less a strategy game, and more a moba in the end.
I agree fully, on the not pro level you lose easily because you are f.e. out of position to defend yolo drops, suddenly a lot of ultras etc. or warprism with 30adept warp in. During HOTS i convinced some of my friends to keep playing, they arent touching LOTV anymore because it doesnt feel right on their level. And that's something different than balance keep that in mind. Result is that they stopped playing except for one, who is playing zerg.
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On December 12 2015 17:54 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 17:29 RoomOfMush wrote:
the tl;dr version of the blizzard update:
"We know about the things you dont like, but we are not going to change them." => that exactly. What they basically said about the ultra is "terrans can manage to deal some damage when the zerg is transitioning ultras.". No shit sherlock, most pro zergs still die to mid game against terran. But not because they're rofltomped by a single unit, because the economy and the compositions have changed (terran got bio figured out, while zergs still learn to use ravagers). However, just watch soulkey playing, ffs. When he reaches T3 without dying, he just masses lings and ultras until the terran dies. Just lings and ultras, nothing else. Because terran has no real counter. - thors can't really be used because you've got to go bio - tanks are still terrible - marauders are atrocious, they deal like 10 damage with +3 atk - ghosts... let's talk about it. The snipe deals 170 damage with 1,43 sec chargeup, for 50 energy. That's nice. But that means you need 4 sniper shots to kill an ultra. Which means you either need 4 ghosts, which is 8 pop and 800/400. Or you need a full energy ghost, but it'll take 5,6 seconds or so. Real time seconds. That's huge. So yay we've got a gimmicky counter that doesn't really works when there's too much ultra, while the rest of the terran army deals litterally no damage.
Ghost Snipe 3-shots Ultralisk, The 170 damage is Spell Damage and as such, not affected by the 8 armor. 170*3=510 = DAED ULTARLUSK
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On December 12 2015 19:46 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 18:50 Asturas wrote:I don't really like talking about balance, I am only Gold, so balance isn't important for me and my opponents' skill On the other hand reading Blizzards explanations is painful. There is so many things that confuse me, so many changes in LotV that at this point (how the hell this game is still in BETA??) make no sense at all, imo. I like playing LotV, mostly because it is faster (in the meaning that I can play more games in shorter time). But the way the game is shifting since WoL from strategy game towards arcade game, with hundreds of skills to master (buttons to press...) is ridiculous. It simply became too hard to play. Very soon only pro-gamers will play it. Shame. I don't thing it will be a too popular opinion around here, but I agree with you. And I don't think the issue is as much that is gets too hard to play, since your opponent has the same issue. However it does make it less and less a strategy game, and more a moba in the end.
Every single Protoss unit has some silly quirk to it, and 80% of them have activated abilities too.
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On the topic of maps I'd like to quote TLO from his interview with mystarcraft.de.
http://www.mystarcraft.de/de/interviews/34341-tlo-about-lotv-hsc-and-his-plans-for-2016
Blizzard tries to make the game more varied by adding a new map pool. How do you assess this attempt?
Well, the current map pool is probalby not that good. Too many maps with four spawn locations and to wide ramps. I think this will get better since there have always been a little questionable features in new Blizzard games. But it's not as bad as I thought. Truth be told, it is currently hard to tell how a good LotV should look like. There is still a lack of experience.
What do you thing about more unconventional map designs like Ulrena?
Innovative maps are not bad in the first place but you have to be careful. Ulrena, for example, is too extreme because it has such a little rush distance which can make games too one-dimensional. LotV does actually not need these crazy maps to produce interesting games because there are so many possibilities to do cool stuff.If maps get too special it rather limits the player's possibilites than making new styles possible.
The whole interview is a nice read, but this part fits the discussion so well.
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On December 12 2015 21:15 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 17:54 JackONeill wrote:On December 12 2015 17:29 RoomOfMush wrote:
the tl;dr version of the blizzard update:
"We know about the things you dont like, but we are not going to change them." => that exactly. What they basically said about the ultra is "terrans can manage to deal some damage when the zerg is transitioning ultras.". No shit sherlock, most pro zergs still die to mid game against terran. But not because they're rofltomped by a single unit, because the economy and the compositions have changed (terran got bio figured out, while zergs still learn to use ravagers). However, just watch soulkey playing, ffs. When he reaches T3 without dying, he just masses lings and ultras until the terran dies. Just lings and ultras, nothing else. Because terran has no real counter. - thors can't really be used because you've got to go bio - tanks are still terrible - marauders are atrocious, they deal like 10 damage with +3 atk - ghosts... let's talk about it. The snipe deals 170 damage with 1,43 sec chargeup, for 50 energy. That's nice. But that means you need 4 sniper shots to kill an ultra. Which means you either need 4 ghosts, which is 8 pop and 800/400. Or you need a full energy ghost, but it'll take 5,6 seconds or so. Real time seconds. That's huge. So yay we've got a gimmicky counter that doesn't really works when there's too much ultra, while the rest of the terran army deals litterally no damage. Ghost Snipe 3-shots Ultralisk, The 170 damage is Spell Damage and as such, not affected by the 8 armor. 170*3=510 = DAED ULTARLUSK
That doesn't really counter his arguments though.
Polt was playing around with ghosts against ultras, he couldn't make it work properly either. The shot delay kills that option, since you can't have your units stick around forever when banelings roll in. And you certainly can't afford to lose those ghosts, because you need the energy that they accumulated.
The ultralisk is just retarded strong at the moment (clearly, they even admit that the ultra was balanced, so they buffed it and nerfed its counter), and no fun to watch, because contrary to what DK wanted (diversify terran), terrans still make only MMM but play more aggressive to kill the zerg before he reaches ultras. The argumentation of "we want them to play different things than MMM, so make sure it can't deal with T3" is idiotic. The correct way would've been to make sure that there's something viable in the terrans arsenal against T3, instead of forcing them to simply kill the zerg before you reach that point.
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On December 12 2015 21:15 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 17:54 JackONeill wrote:On December 12 2015 17:29 RoomOfMush wrote:
the tl;dr version of the blizzard update:
"We know about the things you dont like, but we are not going to change them." => that exactly. What they basically said about the ultra is "terrans can manage to deal some damage when the zerg is transitioning ultras.". No shit sherlock, most pro zergs still die to mid game against terran. But not because they're rofltomped by a single unit, because the economy and the compositions have changed (terran got bio figured out, while zergs still learn to use ravagers). However, just watch soulkey playing, ffs. When he reaches T3 without dying, he just masses lings and ultras until the terran dies. Just lings and ultras, nothing else. Because terran has no real counter. - thors can't really be used because you've got to go bio - tanks are still terrible - marauders are atrocious, they deal like 10 damage with +3 atk - ghosts... let's talk about it. The snipe deals 170 damage with 1,43 sec chargeup, for 50 energy. That's nice. But that means you need 4 sniper shots to kill an ultra. Which means you either need 4 ghosts, which is 8 pop and 800/400. Or you need a full energy ghost, but it'll take 5,6 seconds or so. Real time seconds. That's huge. So yay we've got a gimmicky counter that doesn't really works when there's too much ultra, while the rest of the terran army deals litterally no damage. Ghost Snipe 3-shots Ultralisk, The 170 damage is Spell Damage and as such, not affected by the 8 armor. 170*3=510 = DAED ULTARLUSK
and when there are 10 ultras supported by mass lings? your bio is dead before you have even sniped half of the ultras.
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Anyone who just watched True vs Reality on BaseTradeTV knows David Kim has no idea what he's talking about.
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is this a joke?? Terran is more than enough challenging.. and now you make ultra super imba so we are forced to do somthing else?
explain me. What can we do under theese days? air is dead because viper. mech isnt viable because its to immobile Ghost, gets shut down whit fungal (i had 40 ghost one game, splittet, stil wasnt enough) Ravager counters liberators and tanks. so yeah.. WHAT the hell shal we do other than mmm?
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Well I would like to thanks Blizzard. I am having a ton of fun playing Legacy right now and I even enjoy watching the tournaments that are going on. Even the one with Foreigners. Basetrade, Nationwars, WW3... soon GSL and proleague...
I don't like the maps Lerilak Crest and Central Protocol but I guess that's why I have a "vetomap" options. And I have the feeling they won't stay in the ladder pool for next season.
I agree with the fact that Ultras are too strong vs bio. In some situations it looks really sad for the terran. I also think Parasic Bomb is killing Air. I hope they will tune it down. Overall zerg became more funny to play with.
Disruptor are fun but I am scared it might become boring at one point in PvP. The pylon overcharge might be too strong. I still think that the warp prism is overpowered: the micro you can do with it and some adepts is too strong.
I am still not sure if tanks need buff damage or not. The bomb of the reaper need to be tuned down. They are killing TvT and TvZ. I think the liberators are in a good place now. It's really a huge investment and you really have to strategically decide what you want to do with them.
Well thanks again Blizzard. I am happy.
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On December 13 2015 03:12 wjat wrote:
Well I would like to thanks Blizzard. I am having a ton of fun playing Legacy right now and I even enjoy watching the tournaments that are going on. Even the one with Foreigners. Basetrade, Nationwars, WW3... soon GSL and proleague...
I don't like the maps Lerilak Crest and Central Protocol but I guess that's why I have a "vetomap" options. And I have the feeling they won't stay in the ladder pool for next season.
I agree with the fact that Ultras are too strong vs bio. In some situations it looks really sad for the terran. I also think Parasic Bomb is killing Air. I hope they will tune it down. Overall zerg became more funny to play with.
Disruptor are fun but I am scared it might become boring at one point in PvP. The pylon overcharge might be too strong. I still think that the warp prism is overpowered: the micro you can do with it and some adepts is too strong.
I am still not sure if tanks need buff damage or not. The bomb of the reaper need to be tuned down. They are killing TvT and TvZ. I think the liberators are in a good place now. It's really a huge investment and you really have to strategically decide what you want to do with them.
Well thanks again Blizzard. I am happy.
read the map section again, you will see all these maps again with no replacements next season
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On December 13 2015 03:05 MiCroLiFe wrote:
is this a joke?? Terran is more than enough challenging.. and now you make ultra super imba so we are forced to do somthing else?
explain me. What can we do under theese days? air is dead because viper. mech isnt viable because its to immobile Ghost, gets shut down whit fungal (i had 40 ghost one game, splittet, stil wasnt enough) Ravager counters liberators and tanks. so yeah.. WHAT the hell shal we do other than mmm?
How did you lost 40 ghost???
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Parasitic Bomb needs immediate nerfs, and Photon Overcharge does not need "compensation". It's spammable and needs a straight nerf.
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On December 13 2015 04:03 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 03:05 MiCroLiFe wrote:
is this a joke?? Terran is more than enough challenging.. and now you make ultra super imba so we are forced to do somthing else?
explain me. What can we do under theese days? air is dead because viper. mech isnt viable because its to immobile Ghost, gets shut down whit fungal (i had 40 ghost one game, splittet, stil wasnt enough) Ravager counters liberators and tanks. so yeah.. WHAT the hell shal we do other than mmm? How did you lost 40 ghost???
Probalby enough got fungaled quickly so they couldn't get their snipes off (if you don't get the first snipes off you won't get any off because the zerg will be on top of you) and then you have to run the bio bakc or lose that, so the ghosts die, anbd the ones that did manage to snipe get caught out in front of the army.
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EPT
