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Source
Maps
The Legacy of the Void maps are surprisingly turning out much better than we had hoped. While not perfect, there have not been any major game breaking issues with any of the new maps yet. In the past for example, some new maps have had simple all-in strategies that one race could do in a specific matchup and it would be nearly impossible to stop between two players of equal skill levels. We’re definitely not seeing any of that yet.
What we like about the current map line up is the diversity in how the games play out. Having such different maps seems to be a super important fun factor to the game. We wanted to get your thoughts in this area as well, as we’ve begun to consider just pushing this specific map pool for Season 1 next year. Keep in mind though, that if one of these maps does turn out to be horrible in pro play, we definitely have the option to pull that map and replace with a map that we know works well. The general idea here is the same as it always has been: we want to push map diversity so that the game is more interesting to play and watch due to not every single map having the exact same build orders, attack timings, and strategies per matchup.
For Season 2, our current thought is to get another map contest going with a heavy focus on the map makers’ creativity, and continuing to push map diversity in a positive way. We’d like to have a bit more time to evaluate the community maps and really make sure that no new map coming in feels just like another map. The ideal for maps is to be in a state where there is no predefined standard map, but rather many unique maps that continue to arise thanks to community collaboration. Hopefully a map contest will help in achieving this!
Burrow Issue
Thanks for your feedback on the Burrow issue that causes units to not un-burrow properly when multiple Zerg unit types are selected. We have a fix for this and will try to update the balance test map when we update it soon with other balance changes.
Spawn Larva Inject Counter
Thank you for your suggestion. We agree that it could be better to have a counter showing how many injects are queued up. We don’t believe this is an urgent and critical issue or anything like that, but we will try to test this internally and hopefully put out a change sometime early next year.
Liberator Upgrade Icon
We agree that the icons displaying the upgraded state and the non-upgraded state do look pretty similar. Our art team will take a pass over this as well. Please keep in mind though that this is also not a game-breaking change or anything like that, so we won’t be rushing out a solution. We’ll prioritize these changes appropriately, so thanks again for your feedback on this.
Ultralisk
It sounds like there may be a lot of confusion here. We completely agree with those of you saying that Ultralisks weren’t underpowered in Heart of the Swarm. However, the goal of this change was to have Terran play be more interesting in the later stages of the game rather than Marine/Marauder/Medivacs being the answer for near all threats Zerg can bring out. We believe this is very important and will make the matchup a lot more exciting compared to how it’s been in the past.
Going a bit more into detail on this… When we see suggestions that Ultralisks’ total armor needs to be nerfed, we definitely see some examples of that seeming needed. We also see games however, where they are countered well due to counters being out already or players capitalizing on the fact that the Zerg is preparing for an Ultralisk tech-switch and dealing enough damage before the Ultralisks arrive that they remain even or ahead. So we’re not sure if there is a clear balance problem here or not, though it is definitely something that we should be keeping careful attention to. We just don’t want to be in a spot where we are too quick to nerf something, and the end goal to improve the game also gets lost.
Parasitic Bomb Strength
We agree that due to the current strength of this ability, we’re not seeing a lot of air unit interactions that we could. We’ve been discussing your suggestions as well as exploring potential redesigns such as adding friendly fire so that positioning and counter play is increased more. Currently, we don’t quite have a specific alignment on our end on this front, but we wanted to let you know that this is a topic that we’re aggressively discussing right now. An issue with Parasitic Bomb is that due to the threat of the ability, we’re not seeing a lot of air unit interaction in general, we wonder if the solve is as simple as a numbers nerf to see what happens, and then maybe we can go from there.
Automated Tournaments
We have been exploring your suggestions as well as what we’ve talked about at BlizzCon within our Automated Tournaments feature team, and we wanted to share our current thoughts on the topic so that we can keep the discussion open with you guys in order to eventually make the correct decision. Between your feedback and the participation data surrounding this feature, we are currently considering whether team tournaments should actually be the next step like we talked about at BlizzCon. We’re wondering now if increased engagement of the automated tournaments feature itself would be the best course. You guys have pointed out some ideas already such as: exploring potential viability of BO3 tournament formats, having more prestigious rewards, or re-evaluating how the finals of each tournament is done.
The main reasons we started to explore this route was due to your feedback and how much more difficult it would be to get arranged-team tournaments started. 1v1 tournaments already has barriers because of the set times, which we can’t change easily unless many more players play in this system due to potential match making issues.
Balance Test Map
Like we’ve been discussing over the past weeks, here are the things we’d like to potentially look at in the next balance test map:
- Photon Overcharge cost increased to 50, and duration increased to compensate.
- Disruptor +shields damage decrease and/or removal.
- Thor AA damage change to be flat (or increased base damage and decrease +light damage to have same total damage vs. light)
- Ravager or Lurker morph time increase
These are the items that we’ve trimmed down to so far, but remember that none of this is final for the balance test map and we would like to hear your thoughts on each of these ideas as well. The reasons for testing these changes are the same as when we discussed them since the release of LotV.
Thanks, and we look forward to hearing more of your feedback!
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Love most of what was stated (especially the maps), definitely a good step forward, though I'm worried about future balance changes.
As for the lurker change.... Well... at this point the game timer may as well be a minimum of 8 minuets before you can get lurkers out since that is what they are going for here.
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If these maps are turning out much better than they thought, their expectations can't have been that high, which leads me to question: Why use them?
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MapsThe Legacy of the Void maps are surprisingly turning out much better than we had hoped.
What a way to start.... The maps that everyone can't stop shitting on are BETTER than their expectations. Really? Lerilak Crest? Really Ulrena?? What did you have in mind exactly?
This is fucking hopeless.
Ultralisk
It sounds like there may be a lot of confusion here. We completely agree with those of you saying that Ultralisks weren’t underpowered in Heart of the Swarm. However, the goal of this change was to have Terran play be more interesting in the later stages of the game rather than Marine/Marauder/Medivacs being the answer for near all threats Zerg can bring out.
Fair enough, they're saying that at some point Terran has to transition from pure MMM. Okay. Into what exactly? Cyclones? Battlecruisers (which will do zero damage to the 8 armor Ultras...).
And what the fuck are Protoss supposed to do about it? 8 armor makes Carriers extremely ineffective in dealing with them.
I'm glad that spawn larva inject counter and the liberator's upgrade icon artwork are prioritized over things like "why is 44% of the ladder Zerg."
TLDR I'm fucking pissed.
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I don't think there is even a need for lurker nerf right now. ZvP was looking bad by Lurkers, but I feel like Protosses are dealing with it just fine. Now maybe Lurker rushes are destroying Protoss right now? Is that why they want to delay it? I haven't tried doing that yet so that would be interesting to know.
ZvT I haven't seen a single pro game yet with Lurker usage... If there is one plox link me.
In general a good overview of their thought process. I have been enjoying the lack of mass air as those styles have always been boring imo.
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Can we at least destroy Central Protocol from the map pool?
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The Lurker nerf is the only thing that really upsets me about this. They are already basically a T3 unit with how late they come out, and because of that it's hard to actually base strategies around it. The only option is to go ling-heavy until you can afford it in time for them to be effective... and they want to make them even later???
Ravager morph time, I completely understand.
PB: while I would hope that other races AA got buffed rather than PB nerfed, I'm okay with that too.
Ultras: If it is found out that they really are too strong, I'm okay with that too (although I'm not completely convinced of this quite yet, I've seen numerous games where the Zerg player would have been better off not going Ultras).
But damn.. Why target Lurkers right now....? It's already so hard to come up with strats that use them, and I really enjoy the play style of the unit... So frustrating
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On December 12 2015 03:55 Spyridon wrote:
Ultras: If it is found out that they really are too strong, I'm okay with that too (although I'm not completely convinced of this quite yet, I've seen numerous games where the Zerg player would have been better off not going Ultras).
The problem with Blizzard's reasoning is Terran still goes MMM, they just add Ghosts because any other viable counter are destroyed by Vipers.
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@Maps: Cool, matches my thoughts somewhat. Though I wouldn't mind if you would actually patch a map sometimes.
@Ultralisks: The problem is the double nerf/buff here. The split marauder attack would have already made Ultralisks more popular in HotS. 1 more armor for them would have already been very strong against marines in HotS. 2 more armor + the split marauder attack is just too much in my opinion.
I would like to see the ultralisk upgrade go down to +3 armor as soon as possible. If Terrans really figure out ways to deal with them consistently, so that ultralisks become too weak in Legacy, you can always rebuff them to +4 or take other actions.
@Parasitic Bomb: Fully agree that this ability is very strong and we only don't see it that often because people just don't go air against zerg to begin with. I think an interesting tweak would be to delay the effect by a few seconds after it hit, or start the damage off lower and increase it after a few seconds. This would work well with the ability to split the affected units away from others. Maybe that's not enough but it would be interesting and increase counterplay against the ability.
@Balance Changes:
Pylon Overcharge, good suggestion.
Disruptor, don't know since I don't play PvP.
Thor AA increase: I believe a moderate increase is the way too go. The Thor is a very strong unit in direct combat and one really has to look out that this unit doesn't become a counter to too many things with a bit of support. Armored Capital Ships like Broodlords, Battlecruisers and Carriers/Tempests have been one of the main counters to it so far. I don't think this should be turned upside down.
Ravager morph, agree completely. More tension when morphing them and a slight extra delay on rushes does seem like a fitting patch.
Lurker morph, I don't really see the issue. The unit is strong ZvZ and ZvP eventually, but already takes a long time to get out. I really think the unit is fine at the moment with the disruptor and viper being good counters against it and I don't think any patch to this unit is necessary at the moment.
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I really like how the first comment is about adding Spear of Adun abilities to Multiplayer... lol.
Damage ramp time for parasitic bomb sounds good.
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I like how even Blizzard expected the maps to be utter garbage
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Loving the slow and steady updates, the balance team is obviously just watching and waiting for the Korean tournaments to come out before making and unnecessary patches.
I disagree about the maps and Lurker morph times.
Lurker are strong but they are more of a defensive unit that take lots of time to tech to and more so just allows for a safer transition to Hive then some rofl stomp a move powerhouse, there is also lots of counter play available against them for all races.
Maps are pretty bad right now in my opinion, before any balance patches come out I'd prefer to see actual community designed maps (NOT Blizzard maps) as they play a huge role in balance and unit viability. Maps like Ulna/Prion Terrance/that one with the scrap yard station esque mains are just horrendous.
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Another week of no real changes or tests....... Would be nice to see balance map going live, so we can try things and not just talking about it without any specific details etc.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37103 Posts
On December 12 2015 04:11 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Loving the slow and steady updates, the balance team is obviously just watching and waiting for the Korean tournaments to come out before making and unnecessary patches.
Well then GSL and SSL 2016 Season 1 are going to be consist of a bunch of mindfucks.
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Map diversity is good, but right now the maps are too extreme and we can't even see how the actual balance is on most maps. So please do not use this map pool for S1.
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Overcharge nerf + Disruptor nerf + Carrier buff will totally ruin the beauty of current PvP :/.
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their desire for air unit interactions often translate into games with mass air as core, and i dont see how this is desirable at all
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the goal of this change was to have Terran play be more interesting in the later stages of the game rather than Marine/Marauder/Medivacs being the answer for near all threats Zerg can bring out. If this is the main reason for the Ultralisk buff, then you have already accomplished that by splitting the Marauder's shot into 2. What you did to TvZ was in fact a double buff to Zerg/ double nerf to Terran, all the while screwing PvZ and ZvZ as well.
We also see games however, where they are countered well due to counters being out already or players capitalizing on the fact that the Zerg is preparing for an Ultralisk tech-switch and dealing enough damage before the Ultralisks arrive that they remain even or ahead. So in order to deal with Ultralisks I should:
a) dump my resources preemptively on a tech unit that counters it on the off chance that the Zerg player goes Ultras, or
b) end the game before it gets there.
hmm......sounds suspicously alot like countering Mutalisks in PvZ.
As for ZvZ, in case you didn't notice, the match is volatile mix of Ling Baneling wars, into Roach/Ravager wars, into........you guessed it!!!!! ULTRA WARS!!! Who the hell enjoys that!!!
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On December 12 2015 04:27 Aocowns wrote:
their desire for air unit interactions often translate into games with mass air as core, and i dont see how this is desirable at all
It's not that they want to encourage air comps directly, but that parasitic bomb is too oppressive against air units in general.
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we’ve begun to consider just pushing this specific map pool for Season 1 next year
no stop please don't
not cool, not cool at all
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
