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Based on the official Police investigation, only the above players have been implicated in matchfixing. There is no reason to further accuse other players and teams until we get more information. Incessant blind accusations will not be tolerated. Please read the thread and the updates before posting. As of page 54 we will be moderating against match fixing accusations for players who were not caught in this incident, including those using voided Pinnacle bets as evidence. | ||
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Penev
28451 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote: This is exactly why you can't use betting lines as "incontrovertible proof." Numbers and statistics can say literally anything you want them to. You can't. These voided matches are still suspect though. Suspect to being either falsely or "genuinely" fixed. Either way they indicated that something was wrong. | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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Swoopae
Australia339 Posts
On October 19 2015 20:44 Brutaxilos wrote: Anywhere to see the overall standings? I saw Fantasy was facing HyuN earlier but never saw the outcome. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_WCS_Global_Finals | ||
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Swoopae
Australia339 Posts
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[Svall]Granis
Sweden94 Posts
As for now i do hate them for that, but i really really really hope to see them play again...somewhere. They are still good players no matter what anyone say. You cant trash them for throwing 5 games during their whole career. (And yes i am aware how huge matchfixing scandals blows up both in korea and rest of the world) Its not like they robbed a bank or commited a murder. So yes eventho as of right now i hate them for what they did, i still feel like they deserve a second chance...maybe not now or a week from now but give it a couple of months maybe a year. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:09 Penev wrote: You can't. These voided matches are still suspect though. Suspect to being either falsely or "genuinely" fixed. Either way they indicated that something was wrong. But they were never *ever* "100% proof" that the players in question were matchmaking. Too many people around here saw bets being voided, and immediately jumped to the conclusion that the only rational reason is because Players X and/or Y DEFINITELY match fixed. Turns out, not the case! | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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wjat
385 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3942 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:00 Pr0wler wrote: It shows the state of SC2 in Korea(and in general). The coach and the players of a team competing in the elite league are forced to fix matches just to not starve. And they did it for peanuts... 5k a game... I doubt that Gerrard, Yoda or B4 will go in jail for that. If anything they are actually making a favor to Yoda. He is still young and can still go to university and get a decent life outside of eSports. In regards of the match-fixing itself. To think that this will stop it, is like to think that match-fixing in BW stopped after the Savior scandal. It will never end. The more developed the scene is, the more match-fixing there will be. In football people fix matches in the kids leagues... Yo, poor Gerrard starving. He spent >50k USD for his own gambling. Totally starving. | ||
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Penev
28451 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote: But they were never *ever* "100% proof" that the players in question were matchmaking. Too many people around here saw bets being voided, and immediately jumped to the conclusion that the only rational reason is because Players X and/or Y DEFINITELY match fixed. Turns out, not the case! True, true. I wonder if anything else will come up due to this investigation though. It seems unlikely to me that only 5 matches were fixed and at least 7 "fake" fixed. On October 19 2015 21:21 wjat wrote: Looks like the force won't be on Yoda's side today. Don't underestimate the dark side of the force meh :/ | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
Regarding the betting lines, people report some matchfixers that were sold by the brokers were fake and thats why there are so many betting lines that are suspicous. We got 5 different games featuring two different players that are reported as matchfixed, there has to be more. The reason is that if the brokers sold matchifixes for 7 different players games and only two of those players actually matchfixed..... Why the heck would the "Investors" keep trusting the brokers? seelings fake matchfixes is something you can pull off maybe 1/5 without risking that that everyone will stop trusting you or that someone will actually break your neck for cheating them. If you work with illegal gambling your credibility is your livelihood and foolish the wrong people can end up badly. No one would sell fake matchfixes more than real ones, it would be incredibly stupid. There has to be more matchfixes out there, time will tell hopefully. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:05 Excludos wrote: The problem is that it does. If enough people band togheter to blame an individual, it ruins his reputation (at least in the west). This is exactly why it's important to refrain from pitchforking people who haven't been convicted. Suspicions are fine, accusing is not. So please, for the love of esports, stop. You haven't really addressed my point, which is that reputation is meaningless. WCS is essentially region-locked, which means that, with the very dubious exception of DRG who I don't know what the fuck it is he thinks he's trying to do, Koreans aren't looking to land foreign teams anymore. So we can't impact that. And all of the foreign tournaments that Koreans attend have some sort of qualifiers stage; only a few have invitational spots besides (HSC). So we can't really impact their chances to attend/win, either. I guess we could impact stream viewership numbers? So if every pro streamed, and streaming was a very lucrative form of player earnings, this would be a big deal, I guess? But they don't... so it's not? The only legitimate negative consequence of throwing accusations around without proof is that we risk breeding a culture of negativity and hostility... which is a very fair concern, and it totally explains TL's policy. At the same time, you have to admit that accusations of match-fixing have so far remained localized to the players we have some legitimate reason to wonder about. You always hear the same name(s) brought up over and over, it's not hipster accusations coming in and out of fashion on a weekly basis. So even the most unreasonable people have been, on the whole, quite reasonable. | ||
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hymn
Bulgaria832 Posts
I only wonder why are they doing it so dumb. With so many people involved it's bound to fail. If I was a progamer and I wanted to make some $ on the side, I'd tell my mom or brother or closest friend to make some account and bet on the opponent's victory and then cash in. And no abuse, like maybe in 5% of the games. And no weird purchases too. Gotta act like you have no money on the side. With so many unknown people in the scheme, I find it ridiculous they actually agree to do it. | ||
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Swoopae
Australia339 Posts
The other voided matches are suspicious, and worthy of investigation, and people can draw their own conclusions what the circumstantial evidence means or does not mean. We may never find out, or we could end up with the actual results of a real and independent investigation or anything in between. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16619 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:00 Pr0wler wrote: It shows the state of SC2 in Korea(and in general). The coach and the players of a team competing in the elite league are forced to fix matches just to not starve. And they did it for peanuts... 5k a game... I doubt that Gerrard, Yoda or B4 will go in jail for that. If anything they are actually making a favor to Yoda. He is still young and can still go to university and get a decent life outside of eSports. In regards of the match-fixing itself. To think that this will stop it, is like to think that match-fixing in BW stopped after the Savior scandal. It will never end. The more developed the scene is, the more match-fixing there will be. In football people fix matches in the kids leagues... good points here in this post. the best way to discourage match fixing is to have very highly paid players and officials. "The Fix" by Declan Hill shows that match fixing is possible for any competitive event and all one can do is minimize it. The irony here is that Vince Mcmahon's WWE is more honest than any of these competitive events that turn out to have match fixing. I wonder if players have gone a step further than merely fixing a final result. I wonder if the desire to entertain a TV audience has led players to engage in choreographed combat sequences that look spectacular to the viewer. Doing stuff like that puts it up there with professional wrestling. | ||
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SinO[Ob]
France897 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
YoDa from IM and Prime? | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Excludos
Norway7990 Posts
On October 19 2015 21:26 pure.Wasted wrote: You haven't really addressed my point, which is that reputation is meaningless. WCS is essentially region-locked, which means that, with the very dubious exception of DRG who I don't know what the fuck it is he thinks he's trying to do, Koreans aren't looking to land foreign teams anymore. So we can't impact that. And all of the foreign tournaments that Koreans attend have some sort of qualifiers stage; only a few have invitational spots besides (HSC). So we can't really impact their chances to attend/win, either. I guess we could impact stream viewership numbers? So if every pro streamed, and streaming was a very lucrative form of player earnings, this would be a big deal, I guess? But they don't... so it's not? The only legitimate negative consequence of throwing accusations around without proof is that we risk breeding a culture of negativity and hostility... which is a very fair concern, and it totally explains TL's policy. At the same time, you have to admit that accusations of match-fixing have so far remained localized to the players we have some legitimate reason to wonder about. You always hear the same name(s) brought up over and over, it's not hipster accusations coming in and out of fashion on a weekly basis. So even the most unreasonable people have been, on the whole, quite reasonable. So if a player who is a suspected match fixer (but is not found guilty), you think it's completely ok to absolutely just ruin his reputation? What if that player wants to join an american team? Who would have him? Any western sponsors? Forget about it. He might be ok continuing exactly what he's doing on the team he's on, but his future outside of korea is non-existent. Then there's the proximity factor. People here knows people in Korea, some even live there. If enough of them start thinking someone is match fixing, they will tell their Korean friends, and it just spreads from there. Its all bad all the time. Reputation is -everything- in this sport. If your reputation is bad, your career is dead. You must realize I don't disagree with the accusations people have mentioned earlier. I have my suspicions as well, and the chances based on rumors and findings are rather high. The problem is that they're not 100%, and as long as there is even a tiny chance that someone can still be innocent, its important to not completely drive his reputation through the mud. Too many times (in other esports as well, cs:go comes to mind for a recent event) innocent players have their reputations dragged through the mud for weeks before they're found completely innocent. This is not ok. | ||
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