EPTAlso, I agree with the person saying it would be nice to have TL write an article taking the opposite position. If it's true that nobody on the staff agrees with that position... well then it starts to smell like a groupthink factory.
The Curious Case of soO's Macro Mechanics - Page 3
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Also, I agree with the person saying it would be nice to have TL write an article taking the opposite position. If it's true that nobody on the staff agrees with that position... well then it starts to smell like a groupthink factory. | ||
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DSK
England1106 Posts
To anyone that doubts the skill it takes to macro, I would ask you to take a look at this YouTube playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlyM2Qynscz6EDXuyUaZj_8ljrrhAmSxh [Added] Ugh, the fact that those quotes came from Blizzard has me very worried. | ||
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
A important aspect that seems to miss in this article is the possible change will be applied in LotV, and if anyone still remember, it fast paced like hell with boosted economy and new units that require much more micro.(hence action packing like blizzard love to phase it) As a causal zerg player, while I do like the rhythm feeling injects give zerg, I am not sure I will be able to keep up with the game in LotV, not mention have fun with it. It is not “fun to play” or watch. Well this is a game so I would assume people want to have fun? | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
As much as i enjoy being overwhelmed with more tasks that my coordination can handle i undestand a lot of people don't. I would be inclined to say "then why are you playing Starcraft?" but LotV is supposed to be more acessible and bring more people into the game so this point is invalid. | ||
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 04 2015 04:20 Sholip wrote: Really? That's unfortunate. I mean, I could write an article myself but I'm afraid it would not have the same weight as an "official" TL writeup. I think a lot of people will now remember, "Ah yes, that debate. Even the TL staff themselves were against the changes." If someone from TL could show the other side of the coin, that might get people to actually think instead of blindly clinging to their own opinions they formed immediately after the topic was brought up. Also, I think it would be a pretty good trend for the future to write double critics like in case of some film reviews, coming with two texts from people with generally opposing ideas. If you want an elaborated counter-opinion against the current macro mechanics Jakatak's last video is amazing. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxW0c414Pk&t=10m16s For some reason it doesn't start at the timestamp I linked for me. 10:16 the talk on macro mechanics start. | ||
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
On August 04 2015 04:34 Tuczniak wrote: I disagree with a lot of thing OP wrote, but it's a good article. First part came more as a rant, but that's ok. Rant is the word I'm looking for >< Yeah the first part almost made me stop reading it. | ||
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The_White_Visitation
3 Posts
The 12-worker start is a huge turn off for me. This talk of simplifying the macro mechanics sounds awful and I truly hope they don't go through with it. Blizzard, please don't simplify my game.. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
I would appreciate a careful and accurate analysis of the effects on attention and action spending. | ||
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Vaftrudner
Sweden1185 Posts
Injecting is not fun. Supply depots are not fun. Working on it is work. Feeling the results in game once you've worked on it, the flow and speed of it and knowing where it comes from... That's amazing. My point is basically that even though something is not immediately fun on the surface (and even feels like the mechanic is pointing and laughing at you), that doesn't mean that it isn't deeply rewarding along the line. I think things like this have kept me playing this game for so long. Now, I'm sure Blizzard can come up with other ways to create those feelings without these exact mechanics. But I like them the way they are and I fear the substitute might not be as enjoyable. So it's a bit of fear talking, but it's also contentment. I love having this steady rhythm of actions as an important baseline and substructure carrying the fancy stuff on top. Now I'm gonna go play some customs and spread creep.. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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myk3
Austria80 Posts
Being a zerg player myself I am strongly against dumbing down macro mechanics. Auto inject takes away the chance to actually hit injects regularly and feel the difference between playing good and playing bad. A game is made for players to play, not for someone to watch. Making stuff easier to do won't bring more players to the game, it might just bring other players to the game and drive away others. What got me into sc2 was the overwhelming difficulty of managing macro and micro at the same time, if you are scared away from the game by that fact, you wouldn't be in for a longer stay anyways. Nowadays I mostly watch instead of playing because I just don't have the time. Understanding a certain strategy is easily achieved, but what is impressive in pro-play to me is that I know they have to have mastered the mechanics to a level I personally will never achieve. Taking that major factor away is just a bad design choice in my opinion. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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DonJimbo
6 Posts
Chronoboost is really interesting in the early game, but it becomes dull later in the game. Openings and early/mid game strategies are built around chrono (mass early probes, warpgate timing attack, blink, storm, rush out colossi, etc.). But after a certain point, you just chrono production facilities. And I don't think anyone believes late game chrono is as powerful or impactful as late game Mules and Spawn Larva. It would be interesting if Blizzard added a late game upgrade to let chronos stack or recharge unit shields or something crazy like that, just to keep it interesting. Spawn Larva seems really tedious compared to the other two mechanics. There really is no strategic choice about it. It's just something you have to do no matter what strategy you are using. And that's something that always turned me off from Zerg as a casual Diamond or Platinum player (depending on the season). But of course the OP is correct that Spawn Larva is the core of SC2 Zerg and it seems many Zerg players relish it. | ||
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watchlulu
Germany470 Posts
I just don't get it. HOW can anybody think cutting down on complexity would make a game more fun? How should this attract new players and make them stay in the game? I was so bad at this game for such a long time and still I had so extremely fun games at EVERY level of play. Just because the game would be more simple the guys from bronze league wont be in diamond because as the article says if everyone gets better, no one is. | ||
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Zero-K
Portugal3 Posts
I've been a bit away from the game lately but I still watch some big matches on occasion. And it's true that some details are not apparent to every viewer but that happens in pretty much every sport and even in music. People not familiar with the game will focus on the battles and effects and it's okay. Those that are more knowledgeable can appreciate individual skill and that is okay too. The same argument that the article makes can be made for music. While learning to play the guitar it's not fun to get sore hands and fingers, repeating the same chords and scales while keeping up with the metronome for hours on end is not fun either. And people that don't know much about playing the guitar will not notice every technique used, or the difference between an easy chord or a difficult one. Most people will focus on the end result, the melodies, the flashiness of the player. We can make the same argument for a lot of other things. It has worked for so long, why change it? I think making changes like the starting number of workers is enough to help new viewers bypass that early game stage where nothing happens, but removing things from the game because a casual viewer doesn't notice is a bad policy. | ||
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Dingodile
4131 Posts
Zerg definitely need/should other macro mechanic than the current one. Forgetting one circle of inject is very unforgiving compared to Terran and Protoss macro mechanics. | ||
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