EPTIt can work even in football if you use your brain. It's not a game of just kicking a ball.
Game clock removed from Proleague due to gambling - Page 4
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
It can work even in football if you use your brain. It's not a game of just kicking a ball. | ||
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rotta
5634 Posts
On July 28 2015 03:42 darkness wrote: It can work even in football if you use your brain. It's not a game of just kicking a ball. I guess the timer only really matters in the final moments, but there's not much else to work with when tuning in to a match in progress (besides goals and suspensions of course). In SC2 there's the minimap on top of all the other info and no time limit. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On July 28 2015 02:27 sashkata wrote: It's quite the opposite. People relying on the clock find themselves lost if the game doesn't play out the way they are used to. It's like learning an opening in chess, but your opponent doesn't play the moves he should and you don't know what to do any more. If you are learning the game the clock is almost useless. People are not going to be hitting timings correctly and stuff like that. You're never getting any good at the game if you don't learn timings. I don't understand why people deny the fact that you need to look at what good players do to improve, it seems like the most obvious thing ever to me. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On July 28 2015 02:11 darkness wrote: The game clock is important as you can expect certain strategies. E.g. if you scout 3 rax, you may expect rush between 05:00 and 06:00. If you scout 1-1-1, then 8 min or so. Edit 2: Guys imagine watching football with no time on TV. It may not be as important, but you'll have no idea what's up. Exaclty the opposite should be. We need clock in football, NBA etc because we know that game takes 90min etc. In most cases the time (close to end) generates tension. In sc2, we dont need the clock because the game can end in 5min or 35min. Your 3rax example is great: stop look the clock and learn/play the game with feeling & experience (and with it you should know when your opponent is coming). | ||
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FalconHoof
Canada183 Posts
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duckk
United States622 Posts
On July 28 2015 04:29 MirrorWorthy wrote: lol... I mean... Why do they care so much that people are making prop bets on Starcraft 2 matches? Isn't that a good thing? Increases viewership? garners interest etc? because they have no idea what they are doing. The ingame clock is arguably the most important feature for viewers maybe even over the minimap. IMO the viewers will drop even more drastically then it will magically switch back. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10812 Posts
On July 28 2015 02:11 ZAiNs wrote: You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The clock is huge. When it comes to learning, knowing the EXACT timing of a Pool, Stargate, 3rd Nexus, push-out with an Immortal army, etc is so useful. Also when tuning into a game late or watching it on the side without giving it full attention, you can form a pretty accurate model of what the current game-state is. Without the game timer the game state is so much more uncertain; you see a 3rd Nexus go down but you can't really tell whether its 10 minutes or 15 minutes after some early back-and-forth action. The clock is just removed from broadcasts, the players still have access to it, or there would be a lot of pissed off progamers. Do you have a source on any pro players not using the clock? It's very useful and disabling it for no benefit would be super silly. FantaSy recently said in an interview that he doesn't use the in game Clock, or maybe it was Stork, one of the ex BW pro's that play SC2 now, Star Sense is strong with them. ^^ | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
On July 28 2015 04:49 duckk wrote: because they have no idea what they are doing. The ingame clock is arguably the most important feature for viewers maybe even over the minimap. IMO the viewers will drop even more drastically then it will magically switch back. You are blowing my mind! The clock more important than the minimap?!?!?! | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
There are also no Stalkers in BW yet a lot of ex-BW pros use Stalkers. On July 28 2015 04:52 GGzerG wrote: FantaSy recently said in an interview that he doesn't use the in game Clock, or maybe it was Stork, one of the ex BW pro's that play SC2 now, Star Sense is strong with them. ^^ Stork doesn't: check 29 minutes into this Proleague VOD: . Fantasy doesn't, here is a screencap of his stream: http://i.imgur.com/gBHUJES.jpg. I really doubt any pro (Korean or otherwise) turns off the game-timer. It's VERY helpful with 0 drawbacks (WOW at the guy in this thread who says its better to 'learn' based on game-sense). It would be almost as stupid as avilo not using health bars. This thread is making me feel like I watch a different game to the average viewer ~_~. On July 28 2015 04:27 Dingodile wrote: Exaclty the opposite should be. We need clock in football, NBA etc because we know that game takes 90min etc. In most cases the time (close to end) generates tension. In sc2, we dont need the clock because the game can end in 5min or 35min. Your 3rax example is great: stop look the clock and learn/play the game with feeling & experience (and with it you should know when your opponent is coming). Oh ok. So if you tune into Proleague during its on and you see its just slightly past 9 minutes and Protoss is just pushing out vs. Zerg with 3 Immortals and a handful of Sentries you can say almost for sure that the Protoss did a FE into ~5:45-6:00 Robo without any or at least minimal pressure all game. Looking at the supply of the Zerg at 9 minutes you can also get a rough idea about their opening (i.e., 3 Hatch before Pool or Speedling) and what sort of light pressure occurred earlier in the game. Without a game timer you can assume so much less about the current game-state and as an educated viewer you know so much less about what has happened in the game so far. Also, tell me what's useful to a player. Knowing roughly (thanks to 'feeling & experience') the earliest times a DT can be warped in given an opponent's opening, or knowing exactly give or take a couple of seconds? | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
This thread is making me feel like I watch a different game to the average viewer ~_~. You do. The average active player is in gold league and the average viewer doesn't actively compete 1v1. On July 28 2015 04:29 MirrorWorthy wrote: lol... I mean... Why do they care so much that people are making prop bets on Starcraft 2 matches? Isn't that a good thing? Increases viewership? garners interest etc? Illegal betting is really dodgy, especially when people start offering to pay players under the table to change their play during the game in order to rig those bets. That's an ongoing issue with esports in general but one that has greatly affected korean starcraft | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Edit: Let's be honest this move is not going to fix or remove betting... there will always be this problem we need to fix the problem at the root ... which is the integrity of the players... or we will wind up not having anything SC2 or eSports broadcasted... consider if Football didn't show the points because of betting..... | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
If you look for them, you'll find them. Or just ask for them on a thread. Almost every tournament eventually releases they replay packs. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On July 28 2015 06:26 JCoto wrote: We can always download replay packs. If you look for them, you'll find them. Or just ask for them on a thread. Almost every tournament eventually releases they replay packs. Proleague never has and most likely never will release replays. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On July 28 2015 06:31 ZAiNs wrote: Proleague never has and most likely never will release replays. My bad, I always mess Proleague with SSL XD. However, VODS are on youtube, so it's something. There is tons and tons of pro SC2 games arounds, tons of game analysis, so there is a lot of study material available. It's a bit sad because in Proleague sometimes weird stuff happens and that is very interesting. But anyways we have a very good community open to help and very analytic on stuff, so there is tons of content around, and great games or less common stats are very likely to see some mention. Too bad the strategy section of Liquipedia it's quite outdated. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
maybe not a problem if you're a low level player or not a player at all but when you pick up on details of builds it's nice to have the clock there | ||
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varsovie
Canada326 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 28 2015 09:33 varsovie wrote: It's not like I can see proleague's minimap or time at the highest free english quality anyway. i just watch the vods a few hours later in HD when it's not, you know... the middle of the night... so yeah | ||
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