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On July 29 2015 19:41 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 17:21 Dingodile wrote:On July 28 2015 05:29 ZAiNs wrote:
Oh ok. So if you tune into Proleague during its on and you see its just slightly past 9 minutes and Protoss is just pushing out vs. Zerg with 3 Immortals and a handful of Sentries you can say almost for sure that the Protoss did a FE into ~5:45-6:00 Robo without any or at least minimal pressure all game. Looking at the supply of the Zerg at 9 minutes you can also get a rough idea about their opening (i.e., 3 Hatch before Pool or Speedling) and what sort of light pressure occurred earlier in the game. Without a game timer you can assume so much less about the current game-state and as an educated viewer you know so much less about what has happened in the game so far.
Also, tell me what's useful to a player. Knowing roughly (thanks to 'feeling & experience') the earliest times a DT can be warped in given an opponent's opening, or knowing exactly give or take a couple of seconds? Doesnt matter about the couple of seconds. You should know/feel when your opponent (cheese or timing attack or early push or whatever) is coming by own feeling and experience (worked in all rts games I played) and not by watching the clock. I am sure that we all are scouting alot more if we play without the clock. The clock reveals too much (on both sides). A couple of seconds matters when an Oracle flies into your base. Even pro-level starsense isn't as good as looking at the clock. And how about when you are Forcefielding your ramp vs DTs/4 Gate in PvP and you want the Forcefields to overlap as little as possible? Use starsense, count 10 Blizzard seconds in your head, or just look at the clock? Do you also keep looking at your army to see if the Photon Overcharge range indicator is still there? yeah when it comes to any timings and builds at a level where people are executing them correctly the clock and a few seconds really do matter, you can look at the clock and know whether it's possible for the attack to hit yet, how much gas can possibly be mined yet, is it possible for the oracle to hit yet, is it possible for a third CC to start yet, did your opp. delay his hatch by ten seconds to rush speed, etc etc etc. yes of course it's possible to play by feel and do pretty well but acting like the clock isn't an important tool and can't elevate your play if you know what you're doing is just goofy and ignorant
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This change does indeed stop one type of bet which can lead to incredibly difficult to detect match-fixing. The video of the game does not always start right at the beginning, so nobody can be sure exactly when the game started without the clock. A person with a stopwatch will not be able to accurate determine the game time. So making a bet that a player will win/lose before X time is dubious without an official clock.
And it is a very insidious bet. A bettor can convince one or both players that they should play for the short game (or the long game). The player doing the matchfixing can try his hardest and might actually win with an all-in, but only attempted an all-in because he was being paid to end the game fast. You could even pay off coaches and then they would work with the player on an all-in to use and the player wouldn't even know he was being used for a matchfix. It's virtually impossible to detect that someone is matchfixing in this way, unlike when someone pulls a Marineking.
Unfortunately, it will probably just result in other bets becoming more popular. You could bet on whether or not either player will break 150 supply during the game. If they hide supply, you could bet on whether or not a hive (armory, twilight council, robo bay, starport) will be made. People will find a way to gamble and I don't think Proleague will be able to stop it with fixes like this one. They may have squashed one type of gamble, but a dozen more will pop up.
They really need to support the Proleague players better (so that taking a bribe is not necessary to live), and then investigate thoroughly and harshly punish those who do take bribes.
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What does this really solve?... There's always going to be something for people to bet on no matter how many things you ban. What's next, hide the supply/resources?
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On July 28 2015 09:33 varsovie wrote:
It's not like I can see proleague's minimap or time at the highest free english quality anyway.
Pretty sure you're thinking of GSL. Proleague provides free high quality...
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It's a good point that gamblers will always find something to bet on. The real key to dealing with the problem is to thoroughly investigate suspected match fixing and punish the offenders, and to pay the players properly.
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Well they had to appear to be doing something after taking Marine King's explanation for his thrown match at face value.
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I'm sorry but this is retarded. So in order to "punish"(are they really punished? doubtful) you make the experience worse for your legitimate viewers...
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It's fine. I think we'll all survive.
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On July 31 2015 10:00 DwD wrote:
I'm sorry but this is retarded. So in order to "punish"(are they really punished? doubtful) you make the experience worse for your legitimate viewers...
From what I can see there are essentially 2 points in this whole mess:
1. Do they want a crackdown on betting or on illegal betting? They seem to be fine with services such as Pinnacle so to me this seems like a blind stab at illegal betting. The difference here is that illegal betting usually means matchfixing.. but:
2. If they are after matchfixing, then disabling the clock for viewers accomplishes absolutely nothing since the shady persons in question do their bets before the match starts (aka when they contact the players). So in order to stop matchfixing - that involves the players dragging out the game until a certain point in time - they would have to disable the clock for the players who are suspected of matchfixing, right? To render them unable to properly judge how far the game has progressed... right?
Am I just seeing this wrong or is disabling the clock only for viewers really as stupid as it seems? I wish we could talk to the persons who make decisions like that in order to understand what their thought process is. If my assessment is correct and assuming that what they stated is really their intended goal then... I don't know, seems like a really terrible decision to me.
And why is it only limited to Proleague? Is illegal betting not a thing in S2SL?
I am sorry to say this but it makes absolutely no sense to me...
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Can't we just call it a "prediction event" and make it all ok?
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EPT
