EPTSome players sometimes forget that all those tournaments are not god given. There are plenty tournaments who need the hype of players to get more viewers ( More viewers = more money ). I really hope that you guys have a lot of sucess with that
The Organizer's Alliance Against Absent Athletes - Page 5
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ThorPool
Panama145 Posts
Some players sometimes forget that all those tournaments are not god given. There are plenty tournaments who need the hype of players to get more viewers ( More viewers = more money ). I really hope that you guys have a lot of sucess with that | ||
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Lucrania
United States44 Posts
That's called expecting them to be an adult. If you decide not to show up for work one day with no notice or reason besides, l changed my mind, you have to expect consequences. This is how the world works. "This is how the world works," and, "expecting them to be an adult," don't really answer any of the issues raised. These statements only say, "This is how I want and expect the world to be because that's how it's always been." If you want people to think of playing in a starcraft tournament as a kind of job give them a salary or pay them an hourly rate. The tiered reward system on which money is dispersed in tournaments is incredibly unforgiving and makes it an unreliable source of income for all but a few people. Further, it bothers me that some people see elite players as a group that needs to be "kept in line" instead of the core of the competitive scene. In addition, if a tournament organizer funds a tournament out of his own pocket and the tournament fails to attract the players who have signed up, then the organizer loses his investment. This is the way the world works, and I believe that you would say accepting the risk of losing an investment is part of being an adult. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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Prophanity
United States165 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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fenner
United Kingdom163 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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bypLy
757 Posts
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ZombieGrub
United States712 Posts
On July 27 2015 07:07 LongShot27 wrote: Everything's fine and I understand why you chose the name for a running joke, but if you make a joke, players will treat it as a joke. Be completely serious about something like this if you want results They'll take it seriously when they receive their first, second, and third strike. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18508 Posts
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tomastaz
United States976 Posts
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trada
Germany347 Posts
can somebody name a few players who regularly dropped out of tournaments? without being offensive of course. | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
On July 27 2015 07:39 trada wrote: I had no idea this was such a huge problem. but I rarely watch online cups. can somebody name a few players who regularly dropped out of tournaments? without being offensive of course. Kane/Suppy/MajOr/FireCake/NaNiwa  | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 27 2015 04:39 thewhiskey wrote: This is your solution? What a joke. And the naming of it only makes it worse... At least you could have thought a little about the signal you send. Why not just put more effort into a healthy approach? Such as Creating events that players really want to attend and participate in so bad, that they don't want to drop out unless of a legitimate reason (last minute visa issues, transport problems etc.). Putting them in foreigner *host* stupid name *host* jail is such a victimising "solution". Also the perfect way to split the community and player-caster-organiser relationships. brilliant post, agree 100%. this is a bunch of nonplayers getting together to demonize players as "ruining the game" and make themselves look better in the process without actually doing anything all respect to your right to do this and people's right to agree with it, but i personally think it's ridiculous pointless theatrics | ||
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Stolas
United States4 Posts
On July 27 2015 06:14 feardragon wrote: Being extremely sick is safe under medical emergency. Changing your mind is only safe if you give advance notice. If you decide not to show up for work one day with no notice or reason besides, l changed my mind, you have to expect consequences. This is how the world works. And yes. Players can feel free to not participate in our events if they think this is an unreasonable demand. On July 27 2015 06:26 Lucrania wrote: "This is how the world works," and, "expecting them to be an adult," don't really answer any of the issues raised. These statements only say, "This is how I want and expect the world to be because that's how it's always been." If you want people to think of playing in a starcraft tournament as a kind of job give them a salary or pay them an hourly rate. The tiered reward system on which money is dispersed in tournaments is incredibly unforgiving and makes it an unreliable source of income for all but a few people. Further, it bothers me that some people see elite players as a group that needs to be "kept in line" instead of the core of the competitive scene. In addition, if a tournament organizer funds a tournament out of his own pocket and the tournament fails to attract the players who have signed up, then the organizer loses his investment. This is the way the world works, and I believe that you would say accepting the risk of losing an investment is part of being an adult. The gravity of certain players refusing participation in community events because of Feardragon's initiative seems a bit hyperbolic to me, as I can't see how being requested to honor a commitment is exploitative or detrimental to the game, community, event, player, or organizer. Will some players feel attacked, and as a result refuse participation? Yes, likely, however; this initiative only improves the integrity of lesser-budget tournaments for the exact reason you said above: the athletes are the driving force behind viewership. If the 'athletes' don't show up, and have a very weak excuse for not doing so (as Fear stated earlier, medical/family emergencies and notifying the organizer well in advance constitute valid excuses) then you have a weakened product, which can in turn affect viewership and participation due to the perceived low-quality or mismanagement of the event. You do raise a valid point in that these rules won't make certain players more professional, but it will hold everyone to a set of standards that promotes a more professional and sportsmanlike atmosphere. Will it be a catch-all? Absolutely not. In my view, what this initiative is doing is addressing the entitlement some players have on the issue. In your reply, you also mentioned that the way to incentivize players to consider SC2 competitions as a "job" by giving them a salary or hourly pay. This is a pipe dream at odds to reality for "minor league" players, as the financial ability for organizers to satisfy this request is very improbable. Additionally, this is not the job of an tournament organizer, this is the job of a team organization. The tournament organizer awards the prize, not the salary. If a player seeks a team organization, they need to prove themselves worthwhile of the organization's investment. What is currently the best way for a "minor league" player to build their marketability, brand, image, and overall visibility to acquire this coveted salary/pay? By competing in community tournaments. You also allude to organizers needing to accept the sunk cost associated with a community tournament that fails to get enough participants, despite Fear already explaining he has no issue with an event failing due to lack of participants. In this example, the onus for failure would be on the organizer for their inability to promote/market their event appropriately to fill the missing seats, rather than a sunk cost resulting from last-minute dishonored obligations from the event's participants. These are two very, very different situations that I'm concerned you're treating as one in your assumptions. On July 27 2015 05:21 feardragon wrote: If players don't want to attend the events, then why do they sign up for them? I have no problem with an event failing because no players wanted to participate and didn't sign up. Also the "legit" issues you gave aren't relavent. These are online tournaments so last minute visa issues and transportion problems shouldn't be a concern. If players have a legitimate family or medical emergency sure, we'll be understanding. But there have been way too many instances where a player doesn't show up and their only excuse is "oh shoot, I forgot". There's a cost to the organizer's not having players play their matches they agree to play. Time, money, sponsor relations, viewership enjoyment, etc. all suffer if the player "didn't feel like playing" or "forgot to show up". I think it's far from unreasonable for organizers to ask players to honor commitments made, or at least give due notice that you won't be able to make it more than 20 minutes INTO the event. That's not expecting too much of someone. That's called expecting them to be an adult. It'll be for anyone but for the Lycan League, this will only really be relavent if you make it more than 50% of the way through the tournament and then decide to drop out without a strong reason to do so. The only other situtaion would be if you qualify for the monthly final, accept the invite to it, and then no show without giving a heads up about it at least 36 hours in advance. I definitely feel where you're coming from regarding past transgressions between players and organizers, and I hope this message didn't come off as antagonistic, as that is not my intent. A more constructive counterargument to this initiative would be to discuss how deals needs to be held up by BOTH players AND community organizers on conflicts such as failure to pay players on time, failure to adequately provide information necessary for players to compete (channel names/required check-in times, victory screenshot conditions, I can't think of any others off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many other conflicts) so it doesn't devolve into Us vs. Them mentality that ultimately benefits nobody. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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ZombieGrub
United States712 Posts
On July 27 2015 07:59 LongShot27 wrote: And then the joke continues, hence Kane's FUCTUP post. I told you it would be treated as a joke While I'm sure Kane had fun thinking up his own name, he likely thinks the whole thing is a joke, so who the fuck cares about the name? | ||
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hewo
Norway119 Posts
On July 27 2015 06:26 Lucrania wrote: "This is how the world works," and, "expecting them to be an adult," don't really answer any of the issues raised. These statements only say, "This is how I want and expect the world to be because that's how it's always been." If you want people to think of playing in a starcraft tournament as a kind of job give them a salary or pay them an hourly rate. Literally every athlete out there rely on their results to get money. Prize money is part of it, and if you're reasonably consistent, thus attracting attention (read: viewers, clicks), you'll get sponsors or a team, that provide salary to you in some form. The tiered reward system on which money is dispersed in tournaments is incredibly unforgiving and makes it an unreliable source of income for all but a few people. I agree to some degree, the winner takes all tournaments aren't the best imho. Still, the rewards for being the best is what drives these professionals, if you could be mediocre (e.g. top32) and make about as much money as being #1, why would you work hard to get there? Further, it bothers me that some people see elite players as a group that needs to be "kept in line" instead of the core of the competitive scene. In addition, if a tournament organizer funds a tournament out of his own pocket and the tournament fails to attract the players who have signed up, then the organizer loses his investment. This is the way the world works, and I believe that you would say accepting the risk of losing an investment is part of being an adult. All parties of the alliance are fully aware of the risk of losing their investments. They spend money on online esports tournaments, come on. If, as you suggest, the tournament does not attract players, the organizers would probably quit hosting tournaments. This does not seem to be the happening. However, matches are being skipped because of noshows and dropouts, making the host of the tournament look bad to sponsors and viewers (their employers). To me this simply seems like they try and protect themselves from unserious players who they are better off without in their tournaments. You make it seem like the organizers rely on people playing half a tournament and then dropping out, or people not showing. These people represent the exact opposite, they are the players you dont want, you want them in Foreigner Jail. | ||
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Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
Grab the bollox by the horns and reward players with an inkling of honor who show up to an even that they or their team subscribed them too. TOO MANY times have honest fans been let down by 'no shows', massive props to all those oraganisers who give these players a platform for showing solidarity and sticking together. G G | ||
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WhalesFromSpace
390 Posts
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