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On July 27 2015 07:55 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 04:39 thewhiskey wrote:
This is your solution? What a joke. And the naming of it only makes it worse... At least you could have thought a little about the signal you send.
Why not just put more effort into a healthy approach? Such as Creating events that players really want to attend and participate in so bad, that they don't want to drop out unless of a legitimate reason (last minute visa issues, transport problems etc.). Putting them in foreigner *host* stupid name *host* jail is such a victimising "solution". Also the perfect way to split the community and player-caster-organiser relationships. brilliant post, agree 100%. this is a bunch of nonplayers getting together to demonize players as "ruining the game" and make themselves look better in the process without actually doing anything all respect to your right to do this and people's right to agree with it, but i personally think it's ridiculous pointless theatrics
TIL tournament organizers are not doing anything.
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I will never understand how it got so far. If a player is not ready in 5 min, kick him out. If he is playing in other tournaments, it is his fault for being not ready when his next game is on. Why do players expect to take part in every online tournament at once?
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Nice idea. I think it comes from the right place and the purpose is to induce a better SC2 scene.
The title though , it implies that only non korean players will be sanctioned , which I think is not true , and the first
time you will have to put a korean inside the name will create some "discussions".
I disagreed with a point made by someone earlier , that the name is racist , but the more I think about it the more I agree.
However I think the racist name came because most of the time the players involved were non koreans and we are so used to think in terms of foreigners and non koreans that the racist aspect of the title was not intended.
That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong .
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On July 27 2015 09:06 graNite wrote:
I will never understand how it got so far. If a player is not ready in 5 min, kick him out. If he is playing in other tournaments, it is his fault for being not ready when his next game is on. Why do players expect to take part in every online tournament at once?
Because, so far, they've been allowed to do so with no consequences for signing up for all of the tournaments and then prioritizing their play in the ones they think they can win, or are interested in competing in.
It's been quite literally an action with no downsides to the players, while causing viewers (because honestly, I'm not going to address the organizers) to have to waste time waiting, gradually get bored, and then go watch something else.
While it's organizers doing it, this in the end hopefully ends up in better viewing experiences for the audience. Or maybe people really enjoyed watching endless idle screens and never knowing if they'd be able to watch the next game before they fell asleep/had to go to work/parents dragged them out/etc.
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The strike council seems kinda arbitrary, I hope people don't go on a power trip and make strike-giving a big show.
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LOL Sabre
Other than that part this seems like a great idea. Wonder how long it will take until NaNiwa is on this list -_-
User was banned for this post.
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On July 27 2015 09:19 Gen.Rolly wrote:
The strike council seems kinda arbitrary, I hope people don't go on a power trip and make strike-giving a big show.
Power trip would be to organize behind the scenes and blacklist offending players without any transparency.
And big shows are what SC2 needs.
They should BROADCAST the arguments, appeals, verdicts in Judge Judy style lol. Would watch.
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Great initiative, perhaps even a little lenient. There are too many players who disadvantage their fellow players, the casters, organizers and viewers.
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On July 27 2015 08:59 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 07:55 brickrd wrote:On July 27 2015 04:39 thewhiskey wrote:
This is your solution? What a joke. And the naming of it only makes it worse... At least you could have thought a little about the signal you send.
Why not just put more effort into a healthy approach? Such as Creating events that players really want to attend and participate in so bad, that they don't want to drop out unless of a legitimate reason (last minute visa issues, transport problems etc.). Putting them in foreigner *host* stupid name *host* jail is such a victimising "solution". Also the perfect way to split the community and player-caster-organiser relationships. brilliant post, agree 100%. this is a bunch of nonplayers getting together to demonize players as "ruining the game" and make themselves look better in the process without actually doing anything all respect to your right to do this and people's right to agree with it, but i personally think it's ridiculous pointless theatrics TIL tournament organizers are not doing anything.
??? i didn't say organizing a tournament isn't doing anything, i said making a big dramatic thread about a strike system for attendance of online game competitions isn't really doing anything.
players who don't take attendance seriously aren't going to see this and think "man id better straighten up!", they're going to think "fuck this, it's not worth it, i'm going to go back to school/get a job". i mean if they even take it seriously at all
and you can say good riddance if you want and pretend it would be doing a service to the scene to push out noshows, but at the end of the day alienating players is just going to shrink the talent pool and making the community more miserable and hateful. talk shit on someone like major if you want, the guy has a crappy attitude, but who is in NA that we want to watch instead of him? no one watches NA qualis for anything until they get to the top few pros because everything else is a joke.
like it or not we're at the mercy of those select few who have enough skill to gain a following. where is the magical talent pool of players who are going to ride to the rescue and replace all the big bad evil teenagers and twentysomethings who back out of game tournaments?
and as for people talking about the scene being taken seriously or whatever, i hate to break it to you but no one in the universe is watching the sc2 scene thinking " gee if only their tournaments ran smoother id take them more seriously." being taken seriously is a direct function of having a large sustainable market. the only way for sc2 to get more serious and have better player attendance is for the game to grow through design and marketing. it's not taken seriously because it's a niche and we're fortunate anyone good plays at all. and that's not a dead game comment, it's just reality. this isn't a massive esport, it's down the list.
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Honestly this sounds almost entirely like Sabre's idea. He doesn't exactly have money good ones.
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On July 27 2015 09:19 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 09:06 graNite wrote:
I will never understand how it got so far. If a player is not ready in 5 min, kick him out. If he is playing in other tournaments, it is his fault for being not ready when his next game is on. Why do players expect to take part in every online tournament at once? Because, so far, they've been allowed to do so with no consequences for signing up for all of the tournaments and then prioritizing their play in the ones they think they can win, or are interested in competing in. It's been quite literally an action with no downsides to the players, while causing viewers (because honestly, I'm not going to address the organizers) to have to waste time waiting, gradually get bored, and then go watch something else. While it's organizers doing it, this in the end hopefully ends up in better viewing experiences for the audience. Or maybe people really enjoyed watching endless idle screens and never knowing if they'd be able to watch the next game before they fell asleep/had to go to work/parents dragged them out/etc.
I always thought of it more like the players calling themselves professional gamers when in reality they aren't when they do shit like this. It's just a mutual respect. Sure we all have to eat some how but if you screw the TO's over and over again by being retarded then how do you expect them to keep raising prize pools and doing their job so you have a job? It's like going to your job and telling your boss you'll be spending the afternoon working on something else because it will pay you more today. Guaranteed your ass will be out on the curb. At least these TO's are willing to go the extra mile by letting you say that 2 times.
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The very first time you blacklist someone new, you should accompany the blacklist announcement with this song:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 27 2015 05:06 Bacon_Infinity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 04:39 thewhiskey wrote:
Why not just put more effort into a healthy approach? Such as Creating events that players really want to attend and participate in so bad, that they don't want to drop out unless of a legitimate reason A lot of these events are or have in the past been funded out of pocket by the organizers so that these people can get paid to play a game, if they dont think that's enough motivation then what is?
Well said.
Overall I think this is a good idea.
Not sure I'm a fan of the name.
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Players are what make tournaments, not casters no matter how much any caster ever will try to think that. Without players to play in tourneys, casters are absolutely worthless. Maybe better to respect your jobs and content are produced solely because there are players playing in these tourneys.
This foreigner jail thing like may have sounded good at first conception, but it's honestly a bit ridiculous.
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On July 27 2015 10:03 AlloyE_Aldaris wrote:
Honestly this sounds almost entirely like Sabre's idea. He doesn't exactly have money good ones.
How is your scamming going. Any new prospects?
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On July 27 2015 10:34 avilo wrote:
Players are what make tournaments, not casters no matter how much any caster ever will try to think that. Without players to play in tourneys, casters are absolutely worthless. Maybe better to respect your jobs and content are produced solely because there are players playing in these tourneys.
This foreigner jail thing like may have sounded good at first conception, but it's honestly a bit ridiculous.
Without tournaments, players have no reason to play. It's symbiotic.
If there is no one producing content and hosting tournaments, your skills as a player are worthless. Literally. I don't think there's a single power continuum here; if the two don't work together there's plenty of other entertainment options out there for viewers to watch. Each needs to protect their interests, but if you don't work together and in the interest of the viewers having a good product to consume, both sides die.
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On July 27 2015 02:10 ejozl wrote:
Foreigner Jail sounds so freaking racist, I don't even..
We thought we were safe from SJ in ESports, but NAY
T H E R E I S N O E S C A P E
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8748 Posts
(1) Bad name. I get enjoying an inside joke but that only works for something like this if the name, outside of the context of the joke, appears neutral. But "Foreigner Jail" is not neutral. If you are really committing to this then change the name now. I can already picture you guys talking about foreigner jail in a joking manner. Actually I have a hard time picturing a caster talking about it in completely serious tones, and even if they did then 'foreigner jail' will sound out of place every time it's said.
(2) A competitive person reads this system as "I can drop out of two events and then another one every three months, or even sooner than that if I'm not planning to play anymore of these organizers' tournaments for the following two months." Every warning system in any competitive environment is interpreted like that. It's like fouls in basketball. It's part of the game to use them to your advantage as long as you're not getting into foul trouble. I imagine that if players use as many dropouts as you're allowing them to, you'll still feel like there are too many dropouts. If that's the case, make it stricter. edit: Apparently two strikes can decay simultaneously so it's even less strict than I thought.
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On July 27 2015 10:34 avilo wrote:
but it's honestly a bit ridiculous.
It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
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On July 27 2015 10:41 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 10:34 avilo wrote:
Players are what make tournaments, not casters no matter how much any caster ever will try to think that. Without players to play in tourneys, casters are absolutely worthless. Maybe better to respect your jobs and content are produced solely because there are players playing in these tourneys.
This foreigner jail thing like may have sounded good at first conception, but it's honestly a bit ridiculous. Without tournaments, players have no reason to play. It's symbiotic. If there is no one producing content and hosting tournaments, your skills as a player are worthless. Literally. I don't think there's a single power continuum here; if the two don't work together there's plenty of other entertainment options out there for viewers to watch. Each needs to protect their interests, but if you don't work together and in the interest of the viewers having a good product to consume, both sides die.
Actually, if tournaments entirely disappeared people would still play starcraft 2 contrary to your belief. I would and so would many others. And content would still be created for the game through youtube/streams etc.
Tournaments should respect players, players should respect tournaments, but i'm sorry if you believe there would be no players without tournaments because it's not true.
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EPT
