(Vote): Group A: ForGG, GunGFuBanDa, Bunny, Hydra (Vote): Group B: Harstem, Polt, FireCake, MarineLorD (Vote): Group C: Lilbow, iAsonu, TLO, iaguz (Vote): Group D: Ret, StarDust, Jaedong, Petraeus (Vote): There is no group of death.
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group.
Edit: I think the just flawed the drawing. They should have drawn the third and fourth player from all remaining ones, and if somebody was paired up against a ro32 opponent, they could have redrawn immediately...
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group...
On June 01 2015 07:52 swag_bro wrote: wow why exclude any Koreans in Group C. ESL must really really want a foreigner to win....
no no no, dont you see? they put TLO and Lilbow in the same group to keep them away from the koreans, since they were the only 2 to advance over respective groups korean. they're rigging this in favor of the koreans
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group.
Edit: I think the just flawed the drawing. They should have drawn the third and fourth player from all remaining ones, and if somebody was paired up against a ro32 opponent, they could have redrawn immediately...
I see what they did now. They put the 4 players that could go in groups A or B into the bowl, and drew them. Petraeus and Stardust couldn't go in Group A so weren't placed in the bowl. Seems like kinda of an odd way to do things, but is is a fair I guess.
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group.
Edit: I think the just flawed the drawing. They should have drawn the third and fourth player from all remaining ones, and if somebody was paired up against a ro32 opponent, they could have redrawn immediately...
I see what they did now. They put the 4 players that could go in groups A or B into the bowl, and drew them. Petraeus and Stardust couldn't go in Group A so weren't placed in the bowl. Seems like kinda of an odd way to do things, but is is a fair I guess.
Yes, I understood that, but it doesn't really make sense to me, I mean, there were four other players that could go into group A. Why not also draw from them?
no foreigner @ blizzcon for sure now )= Well this was expected, especially since tournaments like copenhagen games and that hong kong tournament were made to give koreans free WCS points ^^
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group.
Edit: I think the just flawed the drawing. They should have drawn the third and fourth player from all remaining ones, and if somebody was paired up against a ro32 opponent, they could have redrawn immediately...
I see what they did now. They put the 4 players that could go in groups A or B into the bowl, and drew them. Petraeus and Stardust couldn't go in Group A so weren't placed in the bowl. Seems like kinda of an odd way to do things, but is is a fair I guess.
Yes, I understood that, but it doesn't really make sense to me, I mean, there were four other players that could go into group A. Why not also draw from them?
I think they actually draw them in a way that has people that were in the same Ro32 group on "opposite sides" of the bracket (E.g. TLO in C so Polt has to be in A or B) but that becomes completely pointless when you realise that the Ro8 has Group A vs Group C and Group B vs Group D so they could even play each other in the Ro8 depending on how the groups go.
Or for short, I have no idea what they're doing and why.
On June 01 2015 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure I understood that draw. Why was Polt the only choice in Group B? Why couldn't Petraeus or Stardust end up there?
I believe that they made it so you have to be on a different side of the bracket from your Ro32 opponent if both of you advance past the Ro16 so you can't meet till the finals and since TLO is in C Polt had to go to B.
I'll just write the same as in the LR
If that's the case, they changed the rules from last season. For example Showtime and Hydra played in the semifinals and were in the same ro32 group.
Edit: I think the just flawed the drawing. They should have drawn the third and fourth player from all remaining ones, and if somebody was paired up against a ro32 opponent, they could have redrawn immediately...
I see what they did now. They put the 4 players that could go in groups A or B into the bowl, and drew them. Petraeus and Stardust couldn't go in Group A so weren't placed in the bowl. Seems like kinda of an odd way to do things, but is is a fair I guess.
Yes, I understood that, but it doesn't really make sense to me, I mean, there were four other players that could go into group A. Why not also draw from them?
Edit: Same ofc for all other groups.
It gets messier and more complicated I guess. Since you would have to add and remove balls between each round, and you would have to be careful with the last 4 not to mess up and leave one of the last two in a group he can't be in. They just did it that way to make sure they don't mess up.
Since you don't know which of the first place finishers will end up in which groups, it is a perfectly fair approach after all, so might as well go for simplicity.
On June 01 2015 09:19 Larkin wrote: I don't think Group A is group of death. Hydra and ForGG are pretty clear favourites to me. Bunny may take games, but he won't make it.
Group B is the group of death. Any two of those players could make it through.
Group C is almost as tough to call, but I think Lilbow and IAsonu may take it.
Group D should be Dong and SD, since they'll both be playing their best matchups.
i think you are confusing group of death, with closest group
On June 01 2015 09:19 Larkin wrote: I don't think Group A is group of death. Hydra and ForGG are pretty clear favourites to me. Bunny may take games, but he won't make it.
Group B is the group of death. Any two of those players could make it through.
Group C is almost as tough to call, but I think Lilbow and IAsonu may take it.
Group D should be Dong and SD, since they'll both be playing their best matchups.
i think you are confusing group of death, with closest group
What is the definition of a group of death anyways? I've always taken it to be the answer to the question "Which group will result in the best players getting eliminated?", which in practice usually ends up being "Which group has the best third player?"
On June 01 2015 09:19 Larkin wrote: I don't think Group A is group of death. Hydra and ForGG are pretty clear favourites to me. Bunny may take games, but he won't make it.
Group B is the group of death. Any two of those players could make it through.
Group C is almost as tough to call, but I think Lilbow and IAsonu may take it.
Group D should be Dong and SD, since they'll both be playing their best matchups.
i think you are confusing group of death, with closest group
What is the definition of a group of death anyways? I've always taken it to be the answer to the question "Which group will result in the best players getting eliminated?", which in practice usually ends up being "Which group has the best third player?"
i've always looked at it as "which group has the highest sum of skill"
On June 01 2015 09:19 Larkin wrote: I don't think Group A is group of death. Hydra and ForGG are pretty clear favourites to me. Bunny may take games, but he won't make it.
Group B is the group of death. Any two of those players could make it through.
Group C is almost as tough to call, but I think Lilbow and IAsonu may take it.
Group D should be Dong and SD, since they'll both be playing their best matchups.
i think you are confusing group of death, with closest group
On June 01 2015 09:19 Larkin wrote: I don't think Group A is group of death. Hydra and ForGG are pretty clear favourites to me. Bunny may take games, but he won't make it.
Group B is the group of death. Any two of those players could make it through.
Group C is almost as tough to call, but I think Lilbow and IAsonu may take it.
Group D should be Dong and SD, since they'll both be playing their best matchups.
i think you are confusing group of death, with closest group
What is the definition of a group of death anyways? I've always taken it to be the answer to the question "Which group will result in the best players getting eliminated?", which in practice usually ends up being "Which group has the best third player?"
i've always looked at it as "which group has the highest sum of skill"
Nah, to me, group of death = group where any player in it could make it through or be eliminated. Hence 'death'. Cause it's deadly. Group of skill = group A, sure.
Omg GungFuBanda is so fucked. Bunny is gonna have a hard time as well, though it's concievable he can beat one of the koreans.
[quote]Nah, to me, group of death = group where any player in it could make it through or be eliminated. Hence 'death'. Cause it's deadly. Group of skill = group A, sure./quote]
Everyone uses group of death to mean hardest though, you gotta use phrases the same way everyone else does to communicate, though your rationalization is solid. I think of the hardest group as the group of death because its the most stacked and therefore even great players, who would make it far in other groups, will get eliminated
Everyone uses group of death to mean hardest though, you gotta use phrases the same way everyone else does to communicate, though your rationalization is solid. I think of the hardest group as the group of death because its the most stacked and therefore even great players, who would make it far in other groups, will get eliminated
Yes, I think the 'hardest' group is Group B because every player in there could easily lose their matches to everyone else.
Whereas in Group A, I think ForGG and Hydra will have an easier time of it than Bunny or Gungfu.
On June 01 2015 11:07 showstealer1829 wrote: Welp this drawing simply confirms 5 Koreans in the Ro8 of the WCS World tournament designed to lock out Koreans
Everyone uses group of death to mean hardest though, you gotta use phrases the same way everyone else does to communicate, though your rationalization is solid. I think of the hardest group as the group of death because its the most stacked and therefore even great players, who would make it far in other groups, will get eliminated
Yes, I think the 'hardest' group is Group B because every player in there could easily lose their matches to everyone else.
Whereas in Group A, I think ForGG and Hydra will have an easier time of it than Bunny or Gungfu.
A good way to explain the 'group of death' is this. Let's say hypothetically there was a 17th player, and he got to choose what group he was put into. This is a completely generic player who has no preferred matchups and no history with any of the other 16 players. Whichever group he would least want to be put into is the potential group of death. Whichever group would give that player the worst chance of advancing. A true group of death, if there is one, should really be significantly scarier than the other groups. As in, the player might say "Whoa, I don't want to go in that group, that's the group of death!"
So yes, the group with the highest total skill level among it's players is the one that might be a group of death. It's not about which group is the hardest to predict or most evenly matched, it's about which group if you stuck a player in it would give that player the lowest chance of advancing. I guarantee if you switched any of the players from Group A with a player from any of the other groups the Group A player's chances of advancing would go up (even the players who may be favorites to advance already would still see their chances increase.)
Everyone uses group of death to mean hardest though, you gotta use phrases the same way everyone else does to communicate, though your rationalization is solid. I think of the hardest group as the group of death because its the most stacked and therefore even great players, who would make it far in other groups, will get eliminated
Yes, I think the 'hardest' group is Group B because every player in there could easily lose their matches to everyone else.
Whereas in Group A, I think ForGG and Hydra will have an easier time of it than Bunny or Gungfu.
A good way to explain the 'group of death' is this. Let's say hypothetically there was a 17th player, and he got to choose what group he was put into. This is a completely generic player who has no preferred matchups and no history with any of the other 16 players. Whichever group he would least want to be put into is the potential group of death. Whichever group would give that player the worst chance of advancing. A true group of death, if there is one, should really be significantly scarier than the other groups. As in, the player might say "Whoa, I don't want to go in that group, that's the group of death!"
So yes, the group with the highest total skill level among it's players is the one that might be a group of death. It's not about which group is the hardest to predict or most evenly matched, it's about which group if you stuck a player in it would give that player the lowest chance of advancing. I guarantee if you switched any of the players from Group A with a player from any of the other groups the Group A player's chances of advancing would go up (even the players who may be favorites to advance already would still see their chances increase.)
That's what the group of death is.
Looking it up, that's not quite it. It's a group with more strong competitors than there are spots--the group with the best player(s) that will be inevitably eliminated. A group with herO, Life and two bronze leaguers would therefore not be a group of death, while your definition would consider it so.
That being said I'd still consider group A the group of death as I consider the two players eliminated from Group A to be bigger contenders in a vacuum than the two players eliminated from Group B.
I'm liking this new system. There are lots of foreigners in the tournament now so that there are more opportunities for them to shine, while having a low number of koreans ensures that the games don't entirely devolve to "who sucks more"
On June 01 2015 11:07 showstealer1829 wrote: Welp this drawing simply confirms 5 Koreans in the Ro8 of the WCS World tournament designed to lock out Koreans
GG Blizz GG Korea
I'd say 3 confirmed. Bunny can pull the unexpected...
On June 01 2015 14:26 Deathstar wrote: I'm liking this new system. There are lots of foreigners in the tournament now so that there are more opportunities for them to shine, while having a low number of koreans ensures that the games don't entirely devolve to "who sucks more"
Well, there are 2 more koreans here compared to last season. And no foreigner was able to beat any korean in the final stages in season 1, so I guess Ro8 will be the foreigners final round this time. I hope there won't be some other koreans next season, and I already wonder what will be the WCS rules for 2016.
Anyway, I like the effort put in drawings, so we won't see the same matches as in Ro32. And I hope Bunny will do well. And Lilbow too :-)
In Germany, we define the Group of Death as the group that has the highest chance of a tournament favourite (or just a very strong team/player) getting eliminated early. E.g. Group A will see one of ForGG, Hydra and Bunny eliminated for sure while skill wise all 3 of them should be top 8.
On June 01 2015 20:14 Snotling wrote: How is polt still a favourite after the way he stumbeld through the ro32? he will have to do a lot better to get anywere....
Polt always stumbles around in the group stages. If he makes it to the playoffs he enters god mode and becomes nigh-undefeatable for the players in WCS.
On June 01 2015 11:07 showstealer1829 wrote: Welp this drawing simply confirms 5 Koreans in the Ro8 of the WCS World tournament designed to lock out Koreans
GG Blizz GG Korea
I'd say 3 confirmed. Bunny can pull the unexpected...
and JD is JD
JD still has a >90% match win rate against foreign zergs (75-6) and he gets to face 2 of them. would be shocking to me if he doesn't get out
On June 01 2015 20:14 Snotling wrote: How is polt still a favourite after the way he stumbeld through the ro32? he will have to do a lot better to get anywere....
Polt always stumbles around in the group stages. If he makes it to the playoffs he enters god mode and becomes nigh-undefeatable for the players in WCS.
He enters a group with three absolute top foreigners (under Bunny). He sould advance but it won't be easy in any case ! Also, he has the three match ups to prepare for While a weaker korean like stardust (nowadays) has only PvZ to practice. Polt will definitely have to raise his level of play from what we've seen in the ro32 !
Bunny / Hydra (b/c Bunny will enter god mode) Polt / Marinelord (b/c harstem is weaker in TvP, Marinelord if he plays at his real level go through, and b/c I don't like Firecake huhu ) Lilbow / Iaguz (b/c Lilbow is the best foreign PvZ, thus that creates a room for Iaguz if he can replicate his solid TvZ bomber-style) Jaedong / Stardust (b/c Jaedong, and Stardust has only MU to prepare, Petrodollarus has a good shot)
Given that Bunny is now the foreign hope, it's a good group for him. If a foreigner is to take a Blizzcon spot from a top Korean, let him at least somehow prove himself against mid-tier ones to partly justify his presence there.
I'd prefer to not have a foreigner at Blizzcon at all rather than have one that is so inferior to mid-tier Koreans that even his fans don't give him much chance against them.
Everyone uses group of death to mean hardest though, you gotta use phrases the same way everyone else does to communicate, though your rationalization is solid. I think of the hardest group as the group of death because its the most stacked and therefore even great players, who would make it far in other groups, will get eliminated
Yes, I think the 'hardest' group is Group B because every player in there could easily lose their matches to everyone else.
Whereas in Group A, I think ForGG and Hydra will have an easier time of it than Bunny or Gungfu.
A good way to explain the 'group of death' is this. Let's say hypothetically there was a 17th player, and he got to choose what group he was put into. This is a completely generic player who has no preferred matchups and no history with any of the other 16 players. Whichever group he would least want to be put into is the potential group of death. Whichever group would give that player the worst chance of advancing. A true group of death, if there is one, should really be significantly scarier than the other groups. As in, the player might say "Whoa, I don't want to go in that group, that's the group of death!"
So yes, the group with the highest total skill level among it's players is the one that might be a group of death. It's not about which group is the hardest to predict or most evenly matched, it's about which group if you stuck a player in it would give that player the lowest chance of advancing. I guarantee if you switched any of the players from Group A with a player from any of the other groups the Group A player's chances of advancing would go up (even the players who may be favorites to advance already would still see their chances increase.)
That's what the group of death is.
Looking it up, that's not quite it. It's a group with more strong competitors than there are spots--the group with the best player(s) that will be inevitably eliminated. A group with herO, Life and two bronze leaguers would therefore not be a group of death, while your definition would consider it so.
That being said I'd still consider group A the group of death as I consider the two players eliminated from Group A to be bigger contenders in a vacuum than the two players eliminated from Group B.
omg the definition of "group of death"!! How did you do it ? ^^ ps :i laugh so much with "a good way to explain" followed by 20 lines (17th player??:roll
wait a minute....it just hits me....balance race tournament!!! so weird
Group B actually is very strong. Polt won last season and is always able to perform well if it matters. MLord and Firecake are also in very good shape atm. And Harstem is also able to play insanely well, even though he has struggled recently due to his health issues.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qkxGGSN.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGXmaAwWQAAD2Ut.jpg)
ForGG vs 
GunGFuBanDa, 
Hydra
