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On April 19 2015 09:33 NonY wrote:
how do you get promotion in new system?
Pretty much the same as before (there may be potential small changes, but about the same) :
a) Account that has been MMR reset:
Promotions are slightly delayed (the initial placement is conservative). The 25th match (if you win or consecutive victory) will promote you to your actual league. 25th match is the first chance for master promotion (the MMR can reach master range rapidly, so it may have been there already in some 10 games or even less).
b) Stabilized accounts (more than 25 games after blank start):
When your MMR goes over the league threshold you are promoted. This is not based on MMR moving average like it was during WoL era. Also placement matches put you into league based on your MMR (MMR after placement match).
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(The MMR may still change more rapidly than normal after 25 matches after reset, but that is the point where promotions are made. The exact amount of matches after the MMR change rate stabilizes is unknown... likely some 25 to 40 matches).
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United States12243 Posts
On April 19 2015 06:11 Mistakes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 10:11 LordOfDabu wrote:
I got promoted to diamond on game 25 and then to masters on game 26. I've never seen back to back promotions like that before! Wow. I have a friend who is high GM NA, GM EU, GM KR. Currently 58-0 on NA, still in Diamond.
I don't see a 58-0 guy in Diamond on NA on Nios, do you have a profile link?
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Seems like master league is inflated again similar to the beginning of hots: http://nios.kr/sc2/global/1v1/hots/
Also there are some players who were high gm last season still in diamond with ~50 games played.
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A former mid-high masters player here, after 4 months of inactivity I decided to start laddering again at the start of this season. My first match was against a gold player, which I thought was low but made sense given the MMR decay. Ended up having an extremely close match with this guy, checked his profile afterwards and he was GM in 2015 S1. Played the rest of my placement matches, went either 3-2 or 4-1 I can't remember, got into diamond. After game 25 I made masters. Played against several 'diamond' players since who were 2015 S1 GM.
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I think resets like this should be more often. I was platinum last 2 seasons and got to diamond this season, on 25th game.
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Well then. I'm currently in Gold league and I got proxy reaper'd by [pLine]Stabillo today. I don't think this will encourage me to ladder more :S
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One thing I don't understand : master league is currently too big (though with GM opening it should get thinner) and several huge names (ForGG, Petraeus, NaNiwa, Lilbow, Snute, ShoWTimE, MaNa, Verdi and many others) are still in diamond with ludicrous winrates and points. Seems like they messed up a bit and opened a bit too much at the beginning of the season ?
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On April 19 2015 21:46 [PkF] Wire wrote:
One thing I don't understand : master league is currently too big (though with GM opening it should get thinner) and several huge names (ForGG, Petraeus, NaNiwa, Lilbow, Snute, ShoWTimE, MaNa, Verdi and many others) are still in diamond with ludicrous winrates and points. Seems like they messed up a bit and opened a bit too much at the beginning of the season ?
At this point you cannot analyse if the master is 'too big'. Remember that top contains the most active players.
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
On April 19 2015 20:40 Bastinian wrote:
I think resets like this should be more often. I was platinum last 2 seasons and got to diamond this season, on 25th game.
This kind of resets should not be needed anymore as MMR decay was removed. It was the MMR decay that pushed general MMRs downwards all the time. If you maintained your skill level you only went downwards. But now as decay was removed and MMRs reset, the ladder should be much healthier in the future. Of course it is little chaotic at start but then things settle. It remains to be seen how good league thresholds / offsets they have picked. One could guess they are using something as the summer 2013 offsets.
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I played one placement game and placed masters on KR server this season. I finished 14th place diamond with 58% win rate last season and played maybe 4 or 5 games total during the final 3 weeks. My friends in NA had to play 5 games and had odd placements, even though some of them were borderline GM last season. I'm not sure what the deal is, but things like this seem to have been happening at the beginning of the last few ladder seasons; I finished top 8 masters on NA two seasons ago, placed platinum the following season, and never made it into masters throughout the portion of the season I played.
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On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/
the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow.
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On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow.
Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges.
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On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges.
As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been any reset, just higher volatility. Those players still being in diamond puzzles me a bit but I guess we'll see more clearly tomorrow when GM league opens.
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On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges.
The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo
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On April 20 2015 00:50 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges. The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo
50 wins more than loses is not enough to get someone in masters if the change rate has stabilized and MMR was low when stabilization had happened. If they are using summer 2013 offsets then it takes some 20 wins per league (did not check old numbers). Of course in-game match history could tell more (e.g. did most of their loses come at start and then only win streak).
Edit: Hmm. Snute had started 18-11 (5-0 placements).. His 25th was lost... and first subsequent win was 29th match. Did not check opponent leagues thought. And now he is at 46-22. so 28-11 --> + 17 after that (about 1 league wide if they are using summer 2013 offsets, last season it usually required more than 40 wins more than loses to cross diamond). Should check some of his opponents. But then again if he was one of the first who played, he may have got quite low starting MMR after 5-0 placements. And if the loses were against people with low MMR then it very well be possible that he was low when his change rate stabilized (e.g. plat range)
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On April 20 2015 01:12 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 00:50 Sworn wrote:On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges. The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo 50 wins more than loses is not enough to get someone in masters if the change rate has stabilized and MMR was low when stabilization had happened. If they are using summer 2013 offsets then it takes some 20 wins per league (did not check old numbers). Of course in-game match history could tell more (e.g. did most of their loses come at start and then only win streak). Edit: Hmm. Snute had started 18-11 (5-0 placements).. His 25th was lost... and first subsequent win was 29th match. Did not check opponent leagues thought. And now he is at 46-22. so 28-11 --> + 17 after that (about 1 league wide if they are using summer 2013 offsets, last season it usually required more than 40 wins more than loses to cross diamond). Should check some of his opponents. But then again if he was one of the first who played, he may have got quite low starting MMR after 5-0 placements. And if the loses were against people with low MMR then it very well be possible that he was low when his change rate stabilized (e.g. plat range)
The thing is their MMRs aren't low. I looked at the match history of some of those "fake" diamond players and they mostly play between each other, but they get less points for winning against master league players.
In fact, I think it's obvious that if you have >500 points in diamond after 4 days of ladder, you don't belong there.
By the way, if you can't get 2 promotions at once, they probably can't even get to GM right? Unless blizzard fixes it before that.
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United States12243 Posts
On April 20 2015 06:37 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 01:12 korona wrote:On April 20 2015 00:50 Sworn wrote:On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges. The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo 50 wins more than loses is not enough to get someone in masters if the change rate has stabilized and MMR was low when stabilization had happened. If they are using summer 2013 offsets then it takes some 20 wins per league (did not check old numbers). Of course in-game match history could tell more (e.g. did most of their loses come at start and then only win streak). Edit: Hmm. Snute had started 18-11 (5-0 placements).. His 25th was lost... and first subsequent win was 29th match. Did not check opponent leagues thought. And now he is at 46-22. so 28-11 --> + 17 after that (about 1 league wide if they are using summer 2013 offsets, last season it usually required more than 40 wins more than loses to cross diamond). Should check some of his opponents. But then again if he was one of the first who played, he may have got quite low starting MMR after 5-0 placements. And if the loses were against people with low MMR then it very well be possible that he was low when his change rate stabilized (e.g. plat range) The thing is their MMRs aren't low. I looked at the match history of some of those "fake" diamond players and they mostly play between each other, but they get less points for winning against master league players. In fact, I think it's obvious that if you have >500 points in diamond after 4 days of ladder, you don't belong there. By the way, if you can't get 2 promotions at once, they probably can't even get to GM right? Unless blizzard fixes it before that.
GM is an invite league so it operates a little differently. It takes whoever the top 200 MMR people regardless of their current league. Back in the TW region a few years ago there weren't even 200 Master players to put into GM so it used some Diamonds.
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Masters league seems to be way easier this season than last one. So I finally got promoted to masters in HotS.
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Anybody know when GM opens?
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On April 20 2015 01:12 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 00:50 Sworn wrote:On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges. The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo 50 wins more than loses is not enough to get someone in masters if the change rate has stabilized and MMR was low when stabilization had happened. If they are using summer 2013 offsets then it takes some 20 wins per league (did not check old numbers). Of course in-game match history could tell more (e.g. did most of their loses come at start and then only win streak). Edit: Hmm. Snute had started 18-11 (5-0 placements).. His 25th was lost... and first subsequent win was 29th match. Did not check opponent leagues thought. And now he is at 46-22. so 28-11 --> + 17 after that (about 1 league wide if they are using summer 2013 offsets, last season it usually required more than 40 wins more than loses to cross diamond). Should check some of his opponents. But then again if he was one of the first who played, he may have got quite low starting MMR after 5-0 placements. And if the loses were against people with low MMR then it very well be possible that he was low when his change rate stabilized (e.g. plat range)
50 more wins than losses is actually huge... at 250 games played that's a 60% win ratio (150/100), when its 50-20 its even more glaring and those people should definitely be sent to Masters. Even using your 2013 metric of 20 wins per league for promo this would have people like Snute going from Plat - Masters after accumulating over 40 wins and I can guarantee you the metrics for promotions are currently more relaxed than in 2013.
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On April 20 2015 09:02 Sworn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 01:12 korona wrote:On April 20 2015 00:50 Sworn wrote:On April 20 2015 00:36 korona wrote:On April 19 2015 23:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On April 19 2015 22:41 korona wrote:
But can you provide profile links for the players you mentioned?
http://nios.kr/sc2/eu/1v1/hots/diamond/the best ratios are just ludicrous ^^. I guess they'll make the jump directly to GM tomorrow. Problem is that we don't know how low those accounts started. They may have tanked their MMR at start as they still have quite plenty of loses. And after some 25 to 35 games the change rate slows down. And then it is slow to go over league ranges. The ones at the top with 75%+ winrates have absolutely no way of having tanked their MMR with those ratios this early and they have 50+ games played which should be more than enough to send someone to masters. ForGG and other pros being stuck in diamond almost a week later shouldn't be happening imo 50 wins more than loses is not enough to get someone in masters if the change rate has stabilized and MMR was low when stabilization had happened. If they are using summer 2013 offsets then it takes some 20 wins per league (did not check old numbers). Of course in-game match history could tell more (e.g. did most of their loses come at start and then only win streak). Edit: Hmm. Snute had started 18-11 (5-0 placements).. His 25th was lost... and first subsequent win was 29th match. Did not check opponent leagues thought. And now he is at 46-22. so 28-11 --> + 17 after that (about 1 league wide if they are using summer 2013 offsets, last season it usually required more than 40 wins more than loses to cross diamond). Should check some of his opponents. But then again if he was one of the first who played, he may have got quite low starting MMR after 5-0 placements. And if the loses were against people with low MMR then it very well be possible that he was low when his change rate stabilized (e.g. plat range) 50 more wins than losses is actually huge... at 250 games played that's a 60% win ratio (150/100), when its 50-20 its even more glaring and those people should definitely be sent to Masters. Even using your 2013 metric of 20 wins per league for promo this would have people like Snute going from Plat - Masters after accumulating over 40 wins and I can guarantee you the metrics for promotions are currently more relaxed than in 2013.
You did not understand. What matters is what their MMR was when their MMR change rate stabilized (happens likely around 25th to 35th game, exact point is unknown). After the stabilization happened the changes happen slowly. They may have e.g. been unlucky to play against each others a lot in the beginning (both sides having lowish MMR) and getting loses.
Also note that I am not ruling out that there could have been potential problems regarding their accounts, but it is likely too that their MMR was just low enough when the stabilization happened that it now takes time to go up to reach master.
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EPT
