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Elentos
55566 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:41 Odowan Paleolithic wrote: Test it again. Archon only have 3 range. Carriers can abuse terrain. The Archons kill all Interceptors, even with 22 Carriers constantly rebuilding them, and in a real fight you'd of course then reinforce with something that can reach the Carriers (i.e. Stalkers). Nevermind that this is a situation that is too absurd for a real game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16035 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:42 KingAlphard wrote: How is this tempest nerf going to affect ultra-lategame vs zerg anyway?... The best composition against zerg, currently, is mass tempests/hts with a few colossi to clear locust waves. I doubt that broodlords would be very good against that. They're just too slow and they can't compete with tempests' 15 range combined with revelation. mass tempest was only really used against mass SHs, normally you want mass VR/templar/collossi with a few tempests mixed in to kill broodlords. Pure tempests die to mass corruptor, it was only used against sh styles because all other air units die to spores edit: and without tempests BLs can zone out templar while corruptor fungal kills the air army. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:45 Cricketer12 wrote: as in the super insanely epic tournaments of 2013? or the last weekend of season one which wraps up NA/EU? It'll be a live event like the 2013 season finals. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:41 JamesT wrote: I'd imagine that archon aoe murdered the interceptors In a direct ingagement yes, but you can always pull back your carriers and build more interceptors. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:48 Charoisaur wrote: mass tempest was only really used against mass SHs, normally you want mass VR/templar/collossi with a few tempests mixed in to kill broodlords. Pure tempests die to mass corruptor, it was only used against sh styles because all other air units die to spores edit: and without tempests BLs can zone out templar while corruptor fungal kills the air army. It's not pure tempests. It's tempests and hts, with a few archons as well if you want to. You can't engage that directly with mass corruptors. Tempests are preferred over void rays mostly because of their ability of dealing with chain abducts. If the zerg player goes for chain abducts against a void ray army, he'll get units for free. Against tempests, the protoss player will fire a ton of shots before the zerg player gets in and out of abduct range with his corruptor/overseer/viper cloud. The thing is with broodlords, if you want to zone out high templars you need to get within 9 range with them, which means they are easily under tempests fire. Consider how much time it takes for a broodlord to get between 15 and 9 range too. That's a lot of tempest shots they have to eat. The strength of Swarm hosts is that they can zone out high templars without committing real units under tempest fire at all. | ||
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16035 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:56 KingAlphard wrote: It's not pure tempests. It's tempests and hts, with a few archons as well if you want to. You can't engage that directly with mass corruptors. Tempests are preferred over void rays mostly because of their ability of dealing with chain abducts. If the zerg player goes for chain abducts against a void ray army, he'll get units for free. Against tempests, the protoss player will fire a ton of shots before the zerg player gets in and out of abduct range with his corruptor/overseer/viper cloud. The thing is with broodlords, if you want to zone out high templars you need to get within 9 range with them, which means they are easily under tempests fire. Consider how much time it takes for a broodlord to get between 15 and 9 range too. That's a lot of tempest shots they have to eat. The strength of Swarm hosts is that they can zone out high templars without committing real units under tempest fire at all. we will see how it turns out but i doubt tempests will be built anymore with this change | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:59 Charoisaur wrote: we will see how it turns out but i doubt tempests will be built anymore with this change Same for me. The Z should be able to make something happen before you have too many tempests, and even when you have 6-7 tempests transfuses will help keep key units alive. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Viper Blinding Cloud range increased from 10 to 11 This is to help vs. Mech especially since the range difference between Vipers and Vikings will be slightly greater. The current range of Blinding Cloud is 9 afaik. Liquipedia says the same, it is 9range. So are Liquipedia and I incorrect here, and does this mean the range is increased from 9-->10 or from 9-->11? | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 26 2015 07:02 [PkF] Wire wrote: Same for me. The Z should be able to make something happen before you have too many tempests, and even when you have 6-7 tempests transfuses will help keep key units alive. Well definitely the ultra+broodlord+queen(+viper) timing attack will become insanely powerful. But here, I'm talking about numbers like 25 tempests. If you are able to reach that stage, there isn't a better composition. There's nothing that can make up for the ridiculously high range and supply efficiency of the tempest. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3472 Posts
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7159 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
we’ll have holes we need to fill. These are: ... Zerg being able to zone out High Templars in late game engagements. I'm worried that they think this is all that SH were doing in the ZvP MU. Clearly the SH were very useful against nearly any composition with the exception of mass colossus (still not useless) and air-toss (also not entirely useless). | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On February 26 2015 07:25 Ghanburighan wrote: I'm worried that they think this is all that SH were doing in the ZvP MU. Clearly the SH were very useful against nearly any composition with the exception of mass colossus (still not useless) and air-toss (also not entirely useless). I think they're aware of that issue and hope BL (now that tempests don't slaughter them) or infestors can play that zoning role. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16035 Posts
On February 26 2015 07:24 Lobotomist wrote: I think the beginning of LotV is gonna be pretty rough for zerg. As glad as i am to see swarmhosts go, i don't think zerg will initially have the tools to combat protoss deathballs nor terran mech. Unless they buff broodlord infestor way up, which would be absolutely hilarious (in an awful de ja vu type way) it's to early to tell because so much will change until release but at his point zerg seems to be by far the strongest race. ravager destroying forcefields, warpgate nerf and lurker will absolutely fuck with protoss and i can't imagine bio being viable at all vs zerg. marauder nerf + ultra buff is INSANE, ultras will basically never die vs bio. maybe mech with cyclones will be pretty good but ultras will also be extremely strong vs mech. | ||
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stevethemacguy
United States137 Posts
On February 26 2015 07:25 Luolis wrote: Just fucking remove SH already, its a fucking retarded bs unit that doesnt seem to have anything else in mind but make the other player kill himself. Lol. Can't say I disagree. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On February 26 2015 04:33 SNSeigifried wrote: Tempest no longer has +massive damage vs. air Brood Lords can still be countered by the long range of Tempests, but they won’t be the hard counter they are now, meaning Brood Lords can serve to fill the missing gap created by the redesign of the Swarm Host. Thank you. I find it hilarious that they finally throw the BC a bone and don't even mention it. 3rd class citizenship status. | ||
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
On February 26 2015 06:25 Charoisaur wrote: You're doing it wrong.no exactly this is what won't happen. have you ever played vs roach hydra viper? on open field it's nearly impossible to not get blinding clouded because the vipers can come from every direction and it's also harder to spread your tanks when you are aggressive with them. with the new change moving out on the map will just be suicide. By the time Vipers start coming out, you should be moving towards a 4th base and aiming towards being able to produce vikings 4-6 at a time. 8-10 Vikings don't take up a ton of supply but they zone out Vipers EXTREMELY well. If you're active with your Vikings and Hellions you can posture aggressively without being too exposed, and aggressive posturing leaves you room to pull back for a better trade if you get forced into an engagement. Too many meching players hole up on 3 bases with not enough production facilities vs. Z. TvZ is the only meching matchup where taking a 4th base is relatively easy, and you should be cranking out of 6-8 factories on 3 bases while adding 1-3 starports once you take your 4th. | ||
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