EPTPut Warpgate to Fleet Bacon or Templar Archives. imo it is only a early thing design problem.
Legacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 27
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
Put Warpgate to Fleet Bacon or Templar Archives. imo it is only a early thing design problem. | ||
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Elentos
55571 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:37 Dingodile wrote: FF prevents opponents micro, thats why it is very terrible. I like to know what you can if your half army is FF zoned. Every micro stuff doesnt work then. WoL fungal was the same garbage, HotS fungal is much much better (except ZvZ). Put Warpgate to Fleet Bacon or Templar Archives. imo it is only a early thing design problem. And if FFs were removed? Have fun being cannon rushed and 2-base all-in'd every game as Zerg because Protoss can't safely expand without FF. So something about Protoss in general has to change, and moving Warpgate to tier 3 tech would make Protoss so much worse, probably borderline unplayable if the units stayed the same. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:44 Elentos wrote: And if FFs were removed? Have fun being cannon rushed and 2-base all-in'd every game as Zerg because Protoss can't safely expand without FF. So something about Protoss in general has to change, and moving Warpgate to tier 3 tech would make Protoss so much worse, probably borderline unplayable if the units stayed the same. This comes up everytime. Never once was it said "Just remove forcefields without doing anything". Not in a serious discussion anyway. People have been crying for a rebalance of protoss without forcefields all the time. They are aware that FFs are needed, but thats part of the problem that needs to be fixed. It is also the reason people are convinced it well never happen and its just wishful thinking. Also, what RaFox said. Cannon rushes and 2 base all ins are already happening. Even completely without forcefields. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:44 Elentos wrote: And if FFs were removed? Have fun being cannon rushed and 2-base all-in'd every game as Zerg because Protoss can't safely expand without FF. So something about Protoss in general has to change, and moving Warpgate to tier 3 tech would make Protoss so much worse, probably borderline unplayable if the units stayed the same. I think every zerg has nightmares of those things already  | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:44 Elentos wrote: And if FFs were removed? Have fun being cannon rushed and 2-base all-in'd every game as Zerg because Protoss can't safely expand without FF. So something about Protoss in general has to change, and moving Warpgate to tier 3 tech would make Protoss so much worse, probably borderline unplayable if the units stayed the same. P need a new Warpgate/Gateway unit (strong in early, solid in mid and rather weak in Lategame). Everything is better than FF. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
http://www.aceresport.com/en/opinion_lotv_mp_update.htm | ||
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Elentos
55571 Posts
On February 17 2015 19:48 KeksX wrote: Also, what RaFox said. Cannon rushes and 2 base all ins are already happening. Even completely without forcefields. Sure, but that's by choice, not quasi-forced because winning otherwise is almost impossible. I am aware people didn't just say "Remove FFs", the point I was making is that not the FFs themselves are the problem but rather that Protoss as a whole is the worst designed race so they need the map editor (FFs, Time Warp) to win consistently. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 17 2015 12:24 wongfeihung wrote: Warp-ins + Photon Cannons. It's partially why I always try to leave 10-20 supply open in the late/super-late game. Late game - yeah, in late game drops are not so big deal. But I am talking about mid game, if you remember the insane dropping play from Bbyong in Hot6ix cup at the end of 2014, that's what I am talking about. You defend 6 drops and the 7th break your neck. You hardly defend 2 bases on KSS and you are supposed to take 3rd faster? How? This is what I am talking about and this is the problem I see. Though for LotV I substituted 3rd for 4th. Small skirmishes cannot happen against stimmed bio with no splash damage. You need some huge help - guardian shield, force field(so they cannot kite your slow zealots), planetary siege tank. And this is all happening because of warping, which so core technology for SC2 they are not considering the change of it. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
On February 17 2015 20:08 Elentos wrote: Sure, but that's by choice, not quasi-forced because winning otherwise is almost impossible. I am aware people didn't just say "Remove FFs", the point I was making is that not the FFs themselves are the problem but rather that Protoss as a whole is the worst designed race so they need the map editor (FFs, Time Warp) to win consistently. "Worst designed?" All three of the races are designed around each other...that is how balance is achieved... Regarding sentries, I read an interesting article that made the suggestion of sentries only being trainable from a closed gateway...like when you do not have warp gate researched. This would slow thier production and take one less warp gate from your disposal...maby two if a sentry heavy army was to be made... | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
Flat 50 damage to the tank (with the Ultra everybody was afraid because of the dps against the non armoured units, archons, zealots, marines, but bottom line was Ultralisk became what was supposed to be). Zerg, let's see how it works with the ravage and with the good track on hydras upgrades and swarm hosts changes. Keep the good work Blizzard, it's "our" last chance! | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
Resource changes We’re feeling more confident about the proposed resource changes from our last update. This change lowers half of the minerals to 50% of their Heart of the Swarm value while leaving the other half at their current HotS value of 1500. Internally, we’re seeing that this change not only encourages expansion across the map, but each base location remains a high point of contention. Assuming internal testing continues this way, it’s looking like we’ll go to beta with this change where we can see testing on a much larger scale with a wider variety of skill levels. Is there any reason in the world to not make all patches 75%? This is just more taxing on non-pro players when they have to manage the worker amount constantly because half of their mineral patches mine out while the others are still good. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 17 2015 21:37 schaf wrote: Is there any reason in the world to not make all patches 75%? This is just more taxing on non-pro players when they have to manage the worker amount constantly because half of their mineral patches mine out while the others are still good. More importantly there are 0 reasons not to use reduced efficiency... 1 worker/patch = 100% mining rate, 2 = 65% or so, 3 = 30% or so. Put a "Efficiency : X%" above the town hall for noobs and problem solved, no need to do complex things on mineral patches. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 17 2015 21:37 schaf wrote: Is there any reason in the world to not make all patches 75%? This is just more taxing on non-pro players when they have to manage the worker amount constantly because half of their mineral patches mine out while the others are still good. Yes, there is. With 8x75% the base just mines out faster. With 4x100% + 4x50% a base reduces to half efficiency, but is still usable. This encourages expanding. I like neither change, however. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
More micro involved for both units..vPlus if they look at zergling and baneling to so its less a-move. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 17 2015 22:31 Foxxan wrote: Hope they really really look into Hydras and roaches. Iam mentioning this since its usually not brought up when ppl talk about things they want to change. More micro involved for both units..vPlus if they look at zergling and baneling to so its less a-move. Adding the Burrow movement by default and possibly buffing the movement speed when burrowed is a great start for more roach micro. It won't do too much in bigger amounts, but in smaller amounts burrow micro with good regeneration is pretty OK (not as good as blink, but it makes quite a difference in roach vs roach type of fights) and the extra movement speed helps with burrow-->move backwards-->unburrow(to keep on shooting) type of micro a lot. I hope they shorten the burrow delay though. That would be the most important thing for burrow micro I think. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3490 Posts
Buffing Burrow micro however would be sick-cool. | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 17 2015 23:01 ejozl wrote: I really don't like the default Burrow movement, if anything I want it removed from the Infestor. Buffing Burrow micro however would be sick-cool. You're right, it's one of those things that simultanously makes for good harass and bullshit allins I fear. There could be coming a ton of this stuff in LotV (Ravagers, New Warp Prism, Disuptor, Banshee/Tank buffs) which is one of the reasons I'm not looking forward to it too much right now. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On February 17 2015 22:57 Big J wrote: Adding the Burrow movement by default and possibly buffing the movement speed when burrowed is a great start for more roach micro. It won't do too much in bigger amounts, but in smaller amounts burrow micro with good regeneration is pretty OK (not as good as blink, but it makes quite a difference in roach vs roach type of fights) and the extra movement speed helps with burrow-->move backwards-->unburrow(to keep on shooting) type of micro a lot. I hope they shorten the burrow delay though. That would be the most important thing for burrow micro I think. Ye something with their burrow would be cool. Something that not only "fix" roach vs roach. There are alot of variations probably: -Use burrow and move x range for a buff such as Burst of regeneration, reduced dmg taken. To encourage more burrow use with some movement+unburrow pretty quick. Buffing the burrow is ofcourse possible, their agility. If it turns out to be to strong then just make a debuff or something. Imagine if roaches could explode, not like the banelings but you use "explodebutton" and then after 3sec the roach explodes for some aoe. A new type of micro here? Would be pretty cool marauder vs roach? The zreg can use autoattack on a few roaches and explode a few others. Not sure what to do with hydralisk but tbh, i dont think its that hard to make hydralisk about more micro. Maybe redesign the unit abit or something. | ||
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