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On February 17 2015 23:23 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 23:01 ejozl wrote:
I really don't like the default Burrow movement, if anything I want it removed from the Infestor.
Buffing Burrow micro however would be sick-cool. You're right, it's one of those things that simultanously makes for good harass and bullshit allins I fear. There could be coming a ton of this stuff in LotV (Ravagers, New Warp Prism, Disuptor, Banshee/Tank buffs) which is one of the reasons I'm not looking forward to it too much right now.
Some zerg units can be more specialised such as roach and infestor while the other units still have a delay when burrowing etc.
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zerg needs more variation at upgrades. Feels like 80% of all upgrades are about increased movements.
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On February 17 2015 23:49 Dingodile wrote:
zerg needs more variation at upgrades. Feels like 80% of all upgrades are about increased movements.
Well, Blizzard loves to mess with the movement speed of units d:
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On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:Thanks God Show nested quote +New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please
Ahhhh that's called a stalker.
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On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker.
Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies...
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On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies...
herO disagrees with you, as well as all the Zergs he killed with his Stalker/Sentry composition. I mean yes stalkers pretty much suck on their own but their mobility (with Blink) and the support of a few sentries compensate for that.
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On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies...
You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too.
You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess).
Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg)
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2. Scan range adjustment. If you haven't watched the below video, it will explain scan range very well, but the gist of it is that units have a range at which they can attack, and a range at which they select a target to attack. Currently, the latter is often the same as the former, which means that units issued an attack-move command will often overstep beyond their actual range to attack before the scan 'pulses' and they select a target. This is why you frequently see things like non-pro players losing Stalkers to Widow Mines, despite the fact that they outrange them. Honestly, unless there is a significant barrier to it, I hope this change actually gets brought in during HotS, because it's such a huge quality of life improvement at all play levels.
I don't get this. No matter the scan range issue: You attack move with units. They attack. Also, when you attack move into widow mines they'll activate.
Now for "quality of life" when you attack move into widow mines they shouldn't activate. Isn't that just a balance change, not a quality of life change?
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On February 18 2015 01:34 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +2. Scan range adjustment. If you haven't watched the below video, it will explain scan range very well, but the gist of it is that units have a range at which they can attack, and a range at which they select a target to attack. Currently, the latter is often the same as the former, which means that units issued an attack-move command will often overstep beyond their actual range to attack before the scan 'pulses' and they select a target. This is why you frequently see things like non-pro players losing Stalkers to Widow Mines, despite the fact that they outrange them. Honestly, unless there is a significant barrier to it, I hope this change actually gets brought in during HotS, because it's such a huge quality of life improvement at all play levels. I don't get this. No matter the scan range issue: You attack move with units. They attack. Also, when you attack move into widow mines they'll activate. Now for "quality of life" when you attack move into widow mines they shouldn't activate. Isn't that just a balance change, not a quality of life change?
It affects balance somewhat, but this isn't only the case vs widow mines, people just want their units to attack with their maximum range when a moving them, it has to be constant and reliable
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On February 18 2015 01:34 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +2. Scan range adjustment. If you haven't watched the below video, it will explain scan range very well, but the gist of it is that units have a range at which they can attack, and a range at which they select a target to attack. Currently, the latter is often the same as the former, which means that units issued an attack-move command will often overstep beyond their actual range to attack before the scan 'pulses' and they select a target. This is why you frequently see things like non-pro players losing Stalkers to Widow Mines, despite the fact that they outrange them. Honestly, unless there is a significant barrier to it, I hope this change actually gets brought in during HotS, because it's such a huge quality of life improvement at all play levels. I don't get this. No matter the scan range issue: You attack move with units. They attack. Also, when you attack move into widow mines they'll activate. Now for "quality of life" when you attack move into widow mines they shouldn't activate. Isn't that just a balance change, not a quality of life change?
It has more to do with consistency in unit behavior than with balance tbh.
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On February 18 2015 00:55 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... herO disagrees with you, as well as all the Zergs he killed with his Stalker/Sentry composition. I mean yes stalkers pretty much suck on their own but their mobility (with Blink) and the support of a few sentries compensate for that.
This kind of composition is more of an all-inish kind of play, it certainly won't take you to a long macro game unless you do significant damage. Anyway, it is still a deathball kind of thing, except with sentries instead of colossus.
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On February 18 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too. You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess). Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg)
The reason is the colossus and the strength of fast blink-timings. After their peak strength of when blink just finished, stalkers become very weak, very quickly.
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On February 18 2015 02:30 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too. You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess). Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg) The reason is the colossus and the strength of fast blink-timings. After their peak strength of when blink just finished, stalkers become very weak, very quickly.
I think the colossus is a reaction to stalkers being somewhat weak and no reason.
Same with blink, without blink stalkers simply wouldn't be played at all. (well that's not entirely true, you obviously need some "meathshield" regardless)
But warpgates don't allow for stronger units, protoss is build around this warpgate idea, which just doesn't seem to work properly..
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On February 18 2015 02:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 02:30 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too. You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess). Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg) The reason is the colossus and the strength of fast blink-timings. After their peak strength of when blink just finished, stalkers become very weak, very quickly. I think the colossus is a reaction to stalkers being somewhat weak and no reason. Same with blink, without blink stalkers simply wouldn't be played at all. But warpgates don't allow for stronger units, protoss is build around this warpgate idea, which just doesn't seem to work properly..
I still don't get why warpgate couldn't be some sort of alternative to traditional gateways as opposed to the flat upgrade it is now.
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On February 18 2015 03:02 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 02:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 02:30 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too. You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess). Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg) The reason is the colossus and the strength of fast blink-timings. After their peak strength of when blink just finished, stalkers become very weak, very quickly. I think the colossus is a reaction to stalkers being somewhat weak and no reason. Same with blink, without blink stalkers simply wouldn't be played at all. But warpgates don't allow for stronger units, protoss is build around this warpgate idea, which just doesn't seem to work properly.. I still don't get why warpgate couldn't be some sort of alternative to traditional gateways as opposed to the flat upgrade it is now.
Blizzard wants warpgates to be the standard protoss production mechanic, if there would be a unit which is better in your main army out of gateways this wouldn't be the case anymore.
They are obsessed by this warpgate idea (tbf, it makes the races more diverse, but probably not in a good way :/)
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I can't believe people are still complaining about gateway units/warpgate
Protoss units are large and typically low DPS
Gateway units are fine, they just scale poorly due to low damage output per surface area, so they need to be supported by AOE in later stages of the game
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On February 18 2015 03:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 03:02 OtherWorld wrote:On February 18 2015 02:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 02:30 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 18 2015 00:52 H0i wrote:On February 18 2015 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:On February 13 2015 05:33 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:
HERC
The HERC has been removed. Thanks God New Protoss Unit
As you may know, one of our main focus points since the last update has been working on the design of a new Protoss unit. Although not final yet, we have a unit and are very happy with how it is currently playing out. While we don’t yet have a name, we wanted to provide you with some details on this new unit:
It is a core gateway unit with a ground-only ranged attack and normal movement speed.
The unit has an ability that sends out a Shade of itself, and after a fixed duration, the unit teleports to the location of the Shade.
The Shade can independently move around, but cannot attack or be attacked, and does not impede upon the actions of the main unit.
We intend to offer a more in-depth look at this new unit in the near future. Basic shooter with normal movement please Ahhhh that's called a stalker. Stalkers do too little damage to trade efficiently in gateway armies without huge splash-deathballs, which is the kind of thing people want to go away from. The new basic shooter would be the protoss marine or roach - cheap, trades well on it's own allowing you to split your army more and fight without the support of 2+ colossi against midgame armies... You have to think about WHY the stalker is like that though. There is a reason the stalker isn't already the unit people wanna see and this reason stays in LOTV too. You simply cannot make a basic shooter type unit which is better than the stalker unless you cannot warp it in (i guess). Also forcefields (which are nerfed in LOTV, but only vs zerg) The reason is the colossus and the strength of fast blink-timings. After their peak strength of when blink just finished, stalkers become very weak, very quickly. I think the colossus is a reaction to stalkers being somewhat weak and no reason. Same with blink, without blink stalkers simply wouldn't be played at all. But warpgates don't allow for stronger units, protoss is build around this warpgate idea, which just doesn't seem to work properly.. I still don't get why warpgate couldn't be some sort of alternative to traditional gateways as opposed to the flat upgrade it is now. Blizzard wants warpgates to be the standard protoss production mechanic, if there would be a unit which is better in your main army out of gateways this wouldn't be the case anymore. They are obsessed by this warpgate idea (tbf, it makes the races more diverse, but probably not in a good way :/)
I am fully in favor of them being the main production structure, but it desperately needs a drawback, such as higher cooldown than Gateway production times.
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On February 18 2015 03:26 RampancyTW wrote:
I can't believe people are still complaining about gateway units/warpgate
Protoss units are large and typically low DPS
Gateway units are fine, they just scale poorly due to low damage output per surface area, so they need to be supported by AOE in later stages of the game
Current warpgate is the core design flaw of protoss. You will always end up discussing warpgate when talking about protoss design.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On February 18 2015 03:26 RampancyTW wrote:
I can't believe people are still complaining about gateway units/warpgate
Protoss units are large and typically low DPS
Gateway units are fine, they just scale poorly due to low damage output per surface area, so they need to be supported by AOE in later stages of the game
Arguing for the warpgate mechanic change at this point is like someone arguing to remove lift from terran buildings and making it an upgrade. Both will never happen.
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On February 18 2015 03:38 Tuczniak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 03:26 RampancyTW wrote:
I can't believe people are still complaining about gateway units/warpgate
Protoss units are large and typically low DPS
Gateway units are fine, they just scale poorly due to low damage output per surface area, so they need to be supported by AOE in later stages of the game
Current warpgate is the core design flaw of protoss. You will always end up discussing warpgate when talking about protoss design.
I'm not sure it will be as game-breaking in the future, however.
200% damage taken while warping in AND doubling the warp in time should have serious ramifications on counter play and map presence to stop the Protoss aggression before it ever really gets started, especially if Zerg begin to create combat units before the attack gets to their side of the map.
Not to mention that Warp Prism harass won't give nearly "guaranteed" damage anymore, at least not to the same degree it does now.
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EPT
