|
I don't understand why they don't just make them forfeit one game every 30 minutes or something.... arrive 1 hr late, you start 0-2, but at least we still have content.
|
On February 09 2015 23:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 23:10 opisska wrote:On February 09 2015 23:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 23:07 opisska wrote:On February 09 2015 23:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:45 opisska wrote:On February 09 2015 22:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:29 Darkhorse wrote:On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid  It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end. Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end" It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end. It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings. As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot. So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself? This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas. I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again. No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so... You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster. They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature. And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? Well for sure I don't understand why someone would vigorously defend the imperfections. I guess it is better to pretend that there are no limiting factors? In a perfect world startale would play jinair even 5 hours from now i guess. The winning team wouldn't have a disadvantage tomorrow obviously, cause people don't need to sleep in that utopia. yada yada yada (yes i know this is childish, but so are a lot of the romantic expectations here) Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 23:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On February 09 2015 23:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 23:07 opisska wrote:On February 09 2015 23:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:45 opisska wrote:On February 09 2015 22:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:29 Darkhorse wrote:On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end. Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end" It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end. It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings. As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot. So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself? This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas. I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again. No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so... You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster. They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature. And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious So "we don't live in a perfect world" in your mind translates to ST can go get fucked, fans can get fucked, and KeSPA is immune from criticism? ST can get fucked if they don't follow the rules, yes.
Since when is following rules a virtue? Since when are all rules good by virtue of existing? Since when is the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law?
Hypothetical situation time! If a terrorist broke into a Seoul TV news station and went on the air saying "if any Startale players attend Proleague finals tonight, my friends will kill those players' family members," and out of fear for their families' safety the players didn't attend, what do you think, should KeSPA disqualify Startale?
I'm going to assume that your answer is "no, they shouldn't." So the question becomes "what excuse is good enough?" Unforeseeable weather + unforeseeable accident + unforeseeably being stuck in a tunnel when the accident happens, and not being able to get out, is a pretty damn good excuse.
The fans didn't get fucked, they would get fucked if they had to stay there for an uncertain amount of time and then the games wouldn't happen regardless.
I dunno about you, I feel like I got fucked.
And for the fans in the studio, KeSPA officials could have easily said "look we think they'll be here in two hours, but there are no guarantees." Then if the fans want to stay, that's on them. They can still leave at the exact same time they left this way.
|
I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST
|
I guess they'll consider spreading out the playoff matches in the future.
|
Haha, $O$ all-kill!
;_; fuck KeSPA
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote:
I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST
Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot.
In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid.
|
On February 09 2015 20:43 brickrd wrote:
i'm pretty sure that in any major competitive sport if an entire team's airplane were delayed the team wouldn't be DQed for not showing up. how is a traffic problem different? are they just supposed to, like, floor it? start doing sick jumps over the other cars? how early do they have to leave to be considered "responsible"? 30 minutes early? 2 hours early? a day early? sometimes shit actually does just happen, man.
+1
This is the most reasonable post I've read in this thread. I challenge any of you who claim kespa made the right decision to answer the questions brickrd raised. I'm so sick of the "rules are rules"-people and their clueless idea of how the real world works baffles me. Sometimes thing happen that are way out of your control, letting some old geezers with a power hard-on getting away with disqalifying a team for reasons out of anyones control and screwing the fans over with what could possibly be an awesome game with great talents clashing is not ideal.
Rules such as these should be regarded as guidelines and kespa should be about dealing with such situations by making the right decision holding the fans interest as the first priority.
Setting an example with a DQ in this instance makes no sense, why is it more effective than let's say fining the team or point deductions? The difference being the fans still get to see the game. Punishing a team for being late because of circumstances out of their control in order to sway them from showing up late in the future because of circumstances out of their control seem rather unlogical to begin with. It's not like they were late because they had to take a detour because Life wanted to get ice cream from a peculiar ice cream shop 30 miles in the wrong direction. They were late and they had a SOLID excuse with SOLID proof.
If it's solely a cost issue then it's even more pathetic that they would mask it as something else, if you can't afford any other decision than to DQ then just be upright about it, noone will blame you for that. Treat us like adults and don't give us the rules are rules bullshit.
|
although i understand a schedule is somewhat important, i cant imagine this happening in any other "real" sport. imagine the Superbowl playoffs. one team shows up late "whuuups, disqualified!"... but then again, TIS. this is starcraft.
|
On February 09 2015 23:30 Arceus wrote:
The term must be in their handbook for at least the duration of this round/season. Judge KeSPA however you like but rules simply cannot be changed midway
Someone would say that having rules is something useful that Blizzard and the ESL could learn off.
|
Sad, but not much can be done except
1) Reschedule
2) DQ
Kespa, like usual, taking the roughest measure.
|
On February 09 2015 19:29 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 19:28 lichter wrote:
According to most weather websites, there is currently little to no snow in Seoul right now. So it was probably just traffic. traffic is undefeated in GSL and proleague
traffic has never won a major titel though 
|
On February 09 2015 23:48 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote:
I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot. In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid.
Just, this.
1h30 left for them to come, let's do that 30min maps thing. Ok, 3-0, sounds like a DQ, doesn't it ?
Just stop arguing about that, you know nothing (John Snow (!)) 'bout what happened for real.
The only reasonnable thing to assume is that KeSPA should be really more transparent. Yeah, that's the fact.
Let's stop arguing with all that manichaeism bullshit 'This is just', 'Kespa are morons' or whatever...
|
Does anyone know how much were they late?
|
Someone add a poll to the OP!
Was KESPA correct in their decision to disqualify Startale-Yoe Flash Wolves?
-Yes
-No
-Not sure
I'm betting 1000 of my esports coins now and predicting a LANDSLIDE win for the bad decision vote.
Doesn't benefit prokespa-league by kicking out a strong contender. Doesn't benefit the players who have no doubt been practicing incredibly hard. Doesn't benefit the fans.
Rules are rules. Man what a crock of shit. This is a loss for all involved, except CJ. Buit hell a bitter victory even for them.
I can see it now after the final. XYZ wins prokespa-league!!
Random reply on TL number 412: Yeah but only 'cos Startale-Yoe were totally shafted.
|
United States23455 Posts
On February 10 2015 00:01 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 23:48 JBright wrote:On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote:
I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot. In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid. Just, this. 1h30 left for them to come, let's do that 30min maps thing. Ok, 3-0, sounds like a DQ, doesn't it ? Just stop arguing about that, you know nothing (John Snow (!)) 'bout what happened for real. The only reasonnable thing to assume is that KeSPA should be really more transparent. Yeah, that's the fact. Let's stop arguing with all that manichaeism bullshit 'This is just', 'Kespa are morons' or whatever...
Indeed. If Kespa had said "Hey we talked to ST and they said not to expect them for two more hours so we DQ'd them" pretty sure no one would be that upset. There might be some people saying they should make gaps between playoff matches for rescheduling but there would be fewer angry people.
It would be preferable to having this blanket rule that takes affect at 30 minutes
|
United States23455 Posts
On February 10 2015 00:05 SorrowShine wrote:
Does anyone know how much were they late?
We aren't sure how late they would have been. Apparently the rule is if you are 30 minutes late you are DQ'd
|
Have you guys taken into consideration that they might have a broadcast schedule? I saw proleague live on TV when i was in KR, not having the match being played might cost Kespa more problems than startale.
|
On February 10 2015 00:06 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 00:05 SorrowShine wrote:
Does anyone know how much were they late? We aren't sure how late they would have been. Apparently the rule is if you are 30 minutes late you are DQ'd
So they didnt even showed up at the end? They just turned around and went home as soon as they knew they are being disqualified?
|
United States23455 Posts
On February 10 2015 00:08 SorrowShine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 00:06 Darkhorse wrote:On February 10 2015 00:05 SorrowShine wrote:
Does anyone know how much were they late? We aren't sure how late they would have been. Apparently the rule is if you are 30 minutes late you are DQ'd So they didnt even showed up at the end? They just turned around and went home as soon as they knew they are being disqualified?
Although I am sometimes a fountain of useful knowledge, I was not in fact in the ST van this morning
|
On February 10 2015 00:10 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 00:08 SorrowShine wrote:On February 10 2015 00:06 Darkhorse wrote:On February 10 2015 00:05 SorrowShine wrote:
Does anyone know how much were they late? We aren't sure how late they would have been. Apparently the rule is if you are 30 minutes late you are DQ'd So they didnt even showed up at the end? They just turned around and went home as soon as they knew they are being disqualified? Although I am sometimes a fountain of useful knowledge, I was not in fact in the ST van this morning
why the fuck not!? that would be really useful right about now! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
