Google transflation from ProLeague official page on Facebook :
SK Telecom StarCraft II Pro League 2015 Season - Round 1 playoff results gave guidance Today's scheduled to play in the first round play-off match gave ST-Yoe team failed to get to the Nexon game arena within the specified time, pursuant to Regulation 25 silgyeokpae been processed. Accordingly, Jin Air Green Wings team is pushed up in the first round of the playoffs was in confrontation with CJ Entus 19:00 tomorrow. Please find a spot for this game, sincerely sorry for the fans who wait.
Legend statement :
We couldn't have known the traffic would be this bad with the snow. Being late for the match is our fault and we admit our defeat. We are sorry to the fans.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
In other words, there was no way for StarTale to arrive even if the match was delayed with map penalties. Proleague games cannot be rescheduled because the venue was already booked and the playoff matches occur on successive days.
On February 09 2015 19:28 lichter wrote: According to most weather websites, there is currently little to no snow in Seoul right now. So it was probably just traffic.
Very odd, but even a little snow or ice can cause big problems if you're not prepared for it.
On February 09 2015 19:28 lichter wrote: According to most weather websites, there is currently little to no snow in Seoul right now. So it was probably just traffic.
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
thats fine, its not like creator was gonna qualify
Quote says something along the lines of "We heard it snowed but we didn't know that the road to the studio would be so blocked. Being late to the studio is our mistake, we accept the forfeit and apologize to our fans."
I'm really pissed for that DQ, feels unfair and unnecessary. And I mean, really pissed, like "I rewrote that post quite a few times so I do not get warned" level of pissed.
Apparently, there was already a rule if something like this were to happen. It seems cruel, but since Startale agreed to follow the rules, Legend accepts Startale's defeat
"이 감독은 "프로리그 규정에 따르기로 하고 대회에 참가한 것이기에 우리의 실책을 인정하고 몰수패까지도 받아들인다"고 다시 한 번 말했다."
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
Well we don't know the details, but I don't think it would have been a big issue to wait until 1h/1h30, or even better to give like 1 map to JAGW each 30 minutes, like it happened in the past. Saying that it's ST's fault is true, but it is not ST's fault alone. When you're trapped in a tunnel with a car accident there is not much you can do.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
Of course you can blame kespa. There are solutions to such problems like giving Jinair a mapwin or something like that. Almost every tournament rules have a passus which includes something like: "The tournament rules can be changed or expanded by the organisation at any point". This is for a reason: sometimes rules don't match reality so the fairer solution in some cases can be breaking the rules.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
i'm pretty sure that in any major competitive sport if an entire team's airplane were delayed the team wouldn't be DQed for not showing up. how is a traffic problem different? are they just supposed to, like, floor it? start doing sick jumps over the other cars? how early do they have to leave to be considered "responsible"? 30 minutes early? 2 hours early? a day early? sometimes shit actually does just happen, man.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
Other organisations have scheduling issues as well. Still there were re-scheduled matches in soccer, for example, if one of the team couldn't arrive in time because of an incident that wasn't their fault. Do you really think a champions league game would be cancelled, if one of the teams couldn't be there in time, because some storm prevented their plane to start? As far as I know something like that even happened to Barcelona a few years back.
Bizarre, I don't see how starting with a relatively minor delay is less preferable than cancelling an entire series.
Disappointing doesn't cover it, ST-Yoe have got their shit together this round and I was looking forward to seeing what they could have done in the Playoffs
Incidentally what is the feeling on the ground in Korea? The limited Tweets I've seen are from figures within eSports who understandably might be loathe to criticise Kespa.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
i'm pretty sure that in any major competitive sport if an entire team's airplane were delayed the team wouldn't be DQed for not showing up. how is a traffic problem different? are they just supposed to, like, floor it? start doing sick jumps over the other cars? how early do they have to leave to be considered "responsible"? 30 minutes early? 2 hours early? a day early? sometimes shit actually does just happen, man.
I'd go even further and say that ever tournament rule should have a passus that deals exactly with a situation like this. And DQ shouldn't be the way to do it.
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
On February 09 2015 20:15 _TMT_ wrote: Disappointed. But, well, KR fans at the studio deserve an apology. Blame yourself, ST.
How in hell is this ST fault? There was a car accident god dammit!
Well, ST did apologize, so I don't want to be harsh.
But that's their responsibility to have a B plan, like maybe ... start 1 hour earlier. It's Asian traffic, after all.
The thing is JAGW was still there to claim the bye. They did not arrive late.
A car accident normally doesn't affect everyone. Maybe JAGW didn't have to drive through that tunnel that was blocked?
And ofc ST did apologize and accepted the def-loss. What else should they do?
I just think basically EVERY organisatio in every field accepts a traffic accident as an excuse - beside Kespa. And kespa accepts delays as well - as long as it affects a kespa-team. That's the main issue here, imo .
There's sceduling to take into account. In the end, it is STs responsibility to be on time. If for whatever reason they can't and are greatly delayed (whatever time they usually take as margin plus half an hour), well, it's sad, but you can't blame JAGW or Kespa for that. In fact, nobody does but some angry fans.
You could blame KeSPA for not being lenient enough. Although we don't know exactly how long it would take ST-Yoe to get to the arena. Because KeSPA is always so vague/ not transparent.
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
Oops, missed the answer. But well, it's not professional at all. Blindly following stupid rules, or even worse here creating stupid rules on the fly, is the complete definition of unprofessionalism.
On February 09 2015 20:51 JulDraGoN wrote: This is an outrage, does this mean I am not getting my Liquibet points?
I gotta say this question has still not be answered, and it is very important d:
Has it?
On February 09 2015 19:40 Shellshock wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:39 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
What?
Have you ever read anything on this forum? There is a horde of people who demand "professionalism" from everybody involved and their idea of that is that there are strict rules that are followed, big money and corporate sponsors are pleased the first, production value is the holy grail, everyone behaves like a human robot without personality, says only politically correct phrases, never chats in-game, writes gg at the end and says that he will practice harder and provide good games in the post-game interview. According to this worldview, being late for a match is a mortal sin.
On February 09 2015 20:51 JulDraGoN wrote: This is an outrage, does this mean I am not getting my Liquibet points?
I gotta say this question has still not be answered, and it is very important d:
Has it?
On February 09 2015 19:40 Shellshock wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:39 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
What?
Have you ever read anything on this forum? There is a horde of people who demand "professionalism" from everybody involved and their idea of that is that there are strict rules that are followed, big money and corporate sponsors are pleased the first, production value is the holy grail, everyone behaves like a human robot without personality, says only politically correct phrases, never chats in-game, writes gg at the end and says that he will practice harder and provide good games in the post-game interview. According to this worldview, being late for a match is a mortal sin.
I guess you like selective reading if that's what you read here.
On February 09 2015 20:51 JulDraGoN wrote: This is an outrage, does this mean I am not getting my Liquibet points?
I gotta say this question has still not be answered, and it is very important d:
Has it?
On February 09 2015 19:40 Shellshock wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:39 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
What?
Have you ever read anything on this forum? There is a horde of people who demand "professionalism" from everybody involved and their idea of that is that there are strict rules that are followed, big money and corporate sponsors are pleased the first, production value is the holy grail, everyone behaves like a human robot without personality, says only politically correct phrases, never chats in-game, writes gg at the end and says that he will practice harder and provide good games in the post-game interview. According to this worldview, being late for a match is a mortal sin.
lol this is so true.
Granted it was "unprofessional" from ST to be stuck in a traffic jam (lol), it was even more unprofessional from kespa to do what they did. completely stupid decision to not delay the games because of something ST could have done absolutely nothing about.
On February 09 2015 20:51 JulDraGoN wrote: This is an outrage, does this mean I am not getting my Liquibet points?
I gotta say this question has still not be answered, and it is very important d:
Has it?
On February 09 2015 19:40 Shellshock wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:39 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
What?
Have you ever read anything on this forum? There is a horde of people who demand "professionalism" from everybody involved and their idea of that is that there are strict rules that are followed, big money and corporate sponsors are pleased the first, production value is the holy grail, everyone behaves like a human robot without personality, says only politically correct phrases, never chats in-game, writes gg at the end and says that he will practice harder and provide good games in the post-game interview. According to this worldview, being late for a match is a mortal sin.
I kinda read the exact opposite. Everyone is sick and tired of these shitty kespa rules and the standard interviews korean players give after every match . There have to be rules, no doubt, but too strict rules are ridiculous - in E -Sports as well as in other sports.
Kespa is the stupidest organisation in the history of e-sports. Entertainment is made for the fans. That's how you make money. This is ridiculous. Stupid fucking kespa. They seriously couldn't wait for the team to get to the studio? I bet the Jin Air staff would have waited. That would have been the act of sportsmanship. Ask Jin Air if they're willing to wait. If they could 've waited, so would the fans.
On February 09 2015 20:51 JulDraGoN wrote: This is an outrage, does this mean I am not getting my Liquibet points?
I gotta say this question has still not be answered, and it is very important d:
Has it?
On February 09 2015 19:40 Shellshock wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:39 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
On February 09 2015 19:33 byFd wrote: what about liquibet? :O
that my friend is the real question needing answered
it will be set to 0 instead of 2 points
To topic: absolutely idiotic decision, which is however just another face of "hrrr, this is e-sports, this is PROFESSIONAL, nothing is tolerated!" that most of the TL wants, so I don't know why are you guys complaining about.
How on earth is this professional? It's about as unprofessional as it gets.
What?
Have you ever read anything on this forum? There is a horde of people who demand "professionalism" from everybody involved and their idea of that is that there are strict rules that are followed, big money and corporate sponsors are pleased the first, production value is the holy grail, everyone behaves like a human robot without personality, says only politically correct phrases, never chats in-game, writes gg at the end and says that he will practice harder and provide good games in the post-game interview. According to this worldview, being late for a match is a mortal sin.
I kinda read the exact opposite. Everyone is sick and tired of these shitty kespa rules and the standard interviews korean players give after every match . There have to be rules, no doubt, but too strict rules are ridiculous - in E -Sports as well as in other sports.
I am not saying there aren't reasonable people here, but I don't believe this is the impression a random walker-by would get from TL. Just wait until some player does something "unprofessional" again and watch the ensuing shitstorm. Nani is back, it shouldn't take long
Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
Yeah, we all know the good old KeSPA. No surprise at all. The funny thing is that ST is apologizing... Why ? It's not like they did something wrong. The situation on the road was bad and they couldn't make it. Can't see what is their fault. Instead of apologizing they should confront KeSPA and ask for rescheduling of the match.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
In a vacuum I don't really have a problem with this, although it does seem unneccessarily strict by KeSPA to punish a team for not being exactly half an hour EARLY. However, the bias KeSPA has shown towards 'traditional' KeSPA teams in these situations is totally unacceptable.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
Of course it's your fault if you get late, but you don't get fired if you arrive a little late. Especially if your team agrees to wait for you. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
Yes, bend the rules only when it benefits me and my interests!! After all, this is e-sports and we should be able to do whatever we please, because we demand it!
Never mind the fact that it is supposed to be a live broadcast. One team managed to make it in time, all the spectators were there in time, but let's blame the traffic and snow because we are the e-sports mob.
Stupidity on this forum always seems to reach a new height.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
Nothing short of the entire tunnel collapsing would block the Korean traffic from moving completely. I don't buy this at all, and I've lived here for the past 8 years driving all over the place. Besides, the navigation system on this country is probably the top of the line.
On February 09 2015 22:07 jellyjello wrote: Yes, bend the rules only when it benefits me and my interests!! After all, this is e-sports and we should be able to do whatever we please, because we demand it!
Never mind the fact that it is supposed to be a live broadcast. One team managed to make it in time, all the spectators were there in time, but let's blame the traffic and snow because we are the e-sports mob.
Stupidity on this forum always seems to reach a new height.
Yes because live esports events have never been delayed for anything or anyone!
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
That's pretty stupid and I'm glad that this isn't handled like that in my countries.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
Nothing short of the entire tunnel collapsing would block the Korean traffic from moving completely. I don't buy this at all, and I've lived here for the past 8 years driving all over the place. Besides, the navigation system on this country is probably the top of the line.
It's not possible to get stuck in traffic in Korea? Wow.. Oo
On February 09 2015 22:07 jellyjello wrote: Yes, bend the rules only when it benefits me and my interests!! After all, this is e-sports and we should be able to do whatever we please, because we demand it!
Never mind the fact that it is supposed to be a live broadcast. One team managed to make it in time, all the spectators were there in time, but let's blame the traffic and snow because we are the e-sports mob.
Stupidity on this forum always seems to reach a new height.
Yes because live esports events have never been delayed for anything or anyone!
You are right, so let's delay the game until the delinquent team shows up - could be today or tomorrow, but delay it at all costs because we could careless about everything else but to watch these two teams duke it out. Nothing could be more important, right?
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
On February 09 2015 22:07 jellyjello wrote: Yes, bend the rules only when it benefits me and my interests!! After all, this is e-sports and we should be able to do whatever we please, because we demand it!
Never mind the fact that it is supposed to be a live broadcast. One team managed to make it in time, all the spectators were there in time, but let's blame the traffic and snow because we are the e-sports mob.
Stupidity on this forum always seems to reach a new height.
Yes because live esports events have never been delayed for anything or anyone!
You are right, so let's delay the game until the delinquent team shows up - could be today or tomorrow, but delay it at all costs because we could careless about everything else but to watch these two teams duke it out. Nothing could be more important, right?
Sorry but you aren't making much sense. You're acting like some catastrophe would have befallen the event had they waited.
Believe me I would be all for a system where there were rolling match forfeits. For example I think an 0-1 deficit for being half an hour late would have been reasonable with possible increases if they were even later. This is just stupid. It hurts the competition. Most importantly it hurts the spectators who showed up and didn't get to see any games
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
It matters because "integrity of competition" isn't a measurable fact, it's a subjective perception. And right now, the majority of viewers - not to mention flabbergasted Korean players, if their tweets are any indication - subjectively perceive the integrity of the playoffs to have been compromised.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
It matters because "integrity of competition" isn't a measurable fact, it's a subjective perception. And right now, the majority of viewers - not to mention flabbergasted Korean players, if their tweets are any indication - subjectively perceive the integrity of the playoffs to have been compromised.
Whether KeSPA will care is up to them.
The integrity would only be harmed if Jinair was late as well and Startale would be dq'ed. Or if tomorrow this happens again but they wait. Otherwise there is nothign wrong and people who think otherwise are probably just butthurt their team didn't get "the chance to play". Which is completely wrong
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
Forfeit is way too harsh reschedule would be much sensible. To the people saying its their fault and should have gone earlier just to make sure they arrive on time .. Good luck foreseeing a traffic accident that can result into tailback and trap you for several hours theres just nothing you can do. Its not like proleague is on tight schedule and one day postpone (with maybe minor punishment such as map loss) would be end of the world. There is likely to be a one/two week break inbetween the rounds anyway
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
rescheduling does happen in real sports major leagues when a force majeure happens. Now I don't know if ST-Yoe had a proper buffer planned for their travel but if they had, then it is just a bad rule by kespa to not account for such events.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
It matters because "integrity of competition" isn't a measurable fact, it's a subjective perception. And right now, the majority of viewers - not to mention flabbergasted Korean players, if their tweets are any indication - subjectively perceive the integrity of the playoffs to have been compromised.
Whether KeSPA will care is up to them.
The integrity would only be harmed if Jinair was late as well and Startale would be dq'ed. Or if tomorrow this happens again but they wait. Otherwise there is nothign wrong and people who think otherwise are probably just butthurt their team didn't get "the chance to play". Which is completely wrong
I don't think that ST stood a chance tonight, and I'm butthurt. But I'm sure your back-up explanation is that I'm a KeSPA hater. It doesn't matter that you think the integrity wasn't harmed. Integrity isn't a measurable quality. We're not dealing with facts. We're dealing with public perception. And the public appears to disagree with you.
First PartinG gets locked out of PL, then ST-YF gets an insta-DQ. Maybe any team would have gotten DQed, maybe not. Who knows? We surely don't, because they still think transparency is a dirty word.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
Ok so your first sentence is bullshit stalling because you don't have a counterpoint. I do realize it's a live event. Dunno how this has any bearing on what I just said You put words in quotes that I didn't say. Quotation marks are for quoting things not random bullshit conjectures that you make. Then you call whichever mystery person said that quote "naive" but I feel ok about that because I didn't say it.
Explain to me again how one map awarded to Jin Air for every half hour late delays jack shit
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
If it is reasonable to postpone Champions League matches once in a while due to unexpected circumstances, I'm pretty sure there would be a way to postpone a Starcraft match. This is really just overly strict Kespa ruling. The rules are the rules I guess, but maybe they should think about changing them when they are stupid. And given that there was some referee decision involved that could have gone the other way, it is quite understandable why people (including me) are upset.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
If it is reasonable to postpone Champions League matches once in a while due to unexpected circumstances, I'm pretty sure there would be a way to postpone a Starcraft match. This is really just overly strict Kespa ruling. The rules are the rules I guess, but maybe they should think about changing them when they are stupid. And given that there was some referee decision involved that could have gone the other way, it is quite understandable why people (including me) are upset.
Agree 100% with you. I´m personally disappointed that my favourite team in PL lost like this.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
Ok so your first sentence is bullshit stalling because you don't have a counterpoint. I do realize it's a live event. Dunno how this has any bearing on what I just said You put words in quotes that I didn't say. Quotation marks are for quoting things not random bullshit conjectures that you make. Then you call whichever mystery person said that quote "naive" but I feel ok about that because I didn't say it.
Explain to me again how one map awarded to Jin Air for every half hour late delays jack shit
Yeah arguing with you never works, that's why i won't anymore, always the same... Also quotation marks aren't only used for direct quotation, but that isn't really the point (even though you try really hard)
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
If it is reasonable to postpone Champions League matches once in a while due to unexpected circumstances, I'm pretty sure there would be a way to postpone a Starcraft match. This is really just overly strict Kespa ruling. The rules are the rules I guess, but maybe they should think about changing them when they are stupid. And given that there was some referee decision involved that could have gone the other way, it is quite understandable why people (including me) are upset.
People are upset cause they don't care if it runs an hour later. They simply aren't affected as much as spotv (and kespa). If starcraft would be the number one event on spotv and they would expect huge viewer rating i am sure rescheduling would have been an option, but that's apparently not the world we live in right now. So you either accept the rules (i don't think they are stupid at all), or you make a fuss about it and call Kespa evil. And yeah Kespa is so so evil, trying their hardest to make sc2 work in korea. Rules are always stupid when you are the one they are enforced upon...
i don't recall a team ever being dq'd for being late in ~22 seasons of proleague. not sure if it's because no one has ever been late or if the rule was more lenient in the past.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:43 sparklyresidue wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:39 Naikonz wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
EGTL got docked a map once if memory serves for being late.
Perhaps it's a cultural thing, but I think what is annoying people most is the lack of any real clear details or rationales behind the decision beyond 'rules are rules' from Kespa. As they serve the Korean scene primarily it's their prerogative to behave in a manner that is accepted by their constituents, but jesus is a less vague announcement, god forbid some kind of press release too much to ask?
Most people here would be OK with a DQ if Startale-Yoe were going to be say, 5 hours late, find it somewhat draconian if it was <1 hour. Aside from trawling Twitter and piecing together things we don't actually know, that's the frustrating part.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:43 sparklyresidue wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:39 Naikonz wrote: [quote]
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
There have been late teams. For being late you lose a map. Giving JinAir every 30 mins a map would be fair thing, it would not delay a the event into midnight but still give em time and the fans could finally see something.
Going with this "buuuhuuu its a live event" (using red viper quotation mark style) doesnt make sense: The game is played is called StarCraft, games tend to be arround 5 mins to 2 hours long. Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team. Also it is no argument, because this "live event" tends to be sheduled for 2-3 hours in the SpoTV shedules for this day. Now they have shown 10 mins preshow and 5 mins "winner interview". What did SpoTV did do the rest? Showing strange interviews with plastic hammers?
Maybe Legend phoned the refs and told em they will come out of the tunnel in 3 hours, so the def lose was the only way to go. But then you should tell it your fans who fucking came trough the snow in to the Nexon Arena to see great games and not the most pathetic winner interview in korean esport.
It is like people pretend KESPA doing everything right because they are KESPA. And people seem to love rules because they common sense is a bad thing.
On February 09 2015 21:43 sparklyresidue wrote: [quote] If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:43 sparklyresidue wrote: [quote] If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you?
Well for sure I don't understand why someone would vigorously defend the imperfections.
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious
So "we don't live in a perfect world" in your mind translates to ST can go get fucked, fans can get fucked, and KeSPA is immune from criticism?
On February 09 2015 23:07 Clonester wrote: There have been late teams. For being late you lose a map. Giving JinAir every 30 mins a map would be fair thing, it would not delay a the event into midnight but still give em time and the fans could finally see something.
Going with this "buuuhuuu its a live event" (using red viper quotation mark style) doesnt make sense: The game is played is called StarCraft, games tend to be arround 5 mins to 2 hours long. Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team. Also it is no argument, because this "live event" tends to be sheduled for 2-3 hours in the SpoTV shedules for this day. Now they have shown 10 mins preshow and 5 mins "winner interview". What did SpoTV did do the rest? Showing strange interviews with plastic hammers?
Maybe Legend phoned the refs and told em they will come out of the tunnel in 3 hours, so the def lose was the only way to go. But then you should tell it your fans who fucking came trough the snow in to the Nexon Arena to see great games and not the most pathetic winner interview in korean esport.
It is like people pretend KESPA doing everything right because they are KESPA. And people seem to love rules because they common sense is a bad thing.
Yeah a lot of people pretend that Kespa does the right thing, the circlejerk definitely is headed in that direction here I still agree with the transparency concerns, but i also still think it is more reasonable to assume that Startale couldn't make it then it is that Kespa doesn't like ex esf teams and loves to show them exactly that.
Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team.
Oh so cause it still could get worse in a best case scenario (starts on time), you should go for a worst case scenario (starts late) cause the games could all be 5 mins long and thus you wouldn't delay anything? Seams reasonable.
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:01 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious
he lives in a world where illegal betting funding tournament isn't a big thing so he knows it isn't a perfect world since it doesn't curb to fit his desires.
On February 09 2015 22:07 jellyjello wrote: Yes, bend the rules only when it benefits me and my interests!! After all, this is e-sports and we should be able to do whatever we please, because we demand it!
Never mind the fact that it is supposed to be a live broadcast. One team managed to make it in time, all the spectators were there in time, but let's blame the traffic and snow because we are the e-sports mob.
Stupidity on this forum always seems to reach a new height.
Yes because live esports events have never been delayed for anything or anyone!
You are right, so let's delay the game until the delinquent team shows up - could be today or tomorrow, but delay it at all costs because we could careless about everything else but to watch these two teams duke it out. Nothing could be more important, right?
I hope you get shit the next time you're late for work or school due to weather conditions. Sure leaving early would have helped but that doesn't guarantee they would have arrived on time either.
On February 09 2015 23:07 Clonester wrote: There have been late teams. For being late you lose a map. Giving JinAir every 30 mins a map would be fair thing, it would not delay a the event into midnight but still give em time and the fans could finally see something.
Going with this "buuuhuuu its a live event" (using red viper quotation mark style) doesnt make sense: The game is played is called StarCraft, games tend to be arround 5 mins to 2 hours long. Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team. Also it is no argument, because this "live event" tends to be sheduled for 2-3 hours in the SpoTV shedules for this day. Now they have shown 10 mins preshow and 5 mins "winner interview". What did SpoTV did do the rest? Showing strange interviews with plastic hammers?
Maybe Legend phoned the refs and told em they will come out of the tunnel in 3 hours, so the def lose was the only way to go. But then you should tell it your fans who fucking came trough the snow in to the Nexon Arena to see great games and not the most pathetic winner interview in korean esport.
It is like people pretend KESPA doing everything right because they are KESPA. And people seem to love rules because they common sense is a bad thing.
Yeah a lot of people pretend that Kespa does the right thing, the circlejerk definitely is headed in that direction here I still agree with the transparency concerns, but i also still think it is more reasonable to assume that Startale couldn't make it then it is that Kespa doesn't like ex esf teams and loves to show them exactly that.
Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team.
Oh so cause it still could get worse in a best case scenario (starts on time), you should go for a worst case scenario (starts late) cause the games could all be 5 mins long and thus you wouldn't delay anything? Seams reasonable.
You still dont want to accept the point in giving def maps per time. You just dont read it or just dont accept it. If you use def maps per lost time (1 map per 30 mins ), the not so good case scenario (starting late) would never happen. After 2 hours JinAir would have 4-0. But if ST-Yoe would be 1 hour late, it would be 2-0 for ST-Yoe and fans would still see some action. The worst case scenario is still not starting late but not starting, giving fans out at the monitors and in the Nexon Arena the amazing 5 minute show they made to show their high production value. And when ST-Yoe told em they cant show up at all or will be late so hard that they have to sleep in the tunnel, then KESPA should fucking tell it to the people. Else they deserve standing in the shoots that are fired from SC II fans.
And when it comes to rules for players who belong to KESPA holders (Jin Air, SKT1, KT, SGK and CJ in SC II), Kespa has often been more leniend to their players/teams then to players/teams who just were part in their product to fill open competeter spots. SSL Qualification anyone?
Maybe you just must be slaped by your boss when you had to stay in front of a car crash on a highway for hours and he will just tell you: Why didnt you sleep in your buro?
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you?
Well for sure I don't understand why someone would vigorously defend the imperfections.
I guess it is better to pretend that there are no limiting factors? In a perfect world startale would play jinair even 5 hours from now i guess. The winning team wouldn't have a disadvantage tomorrow obviously, cause people don't need to sleep in that utopia. yada yada yada (yes i know this is childish, but so are a lot of the romantic expectations here)
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious
So "we don't live in a perfect world" in your mind translates to ST can go get fucked, fans can get fucked, and KeSPA is immune from criticism?
ST can get fucked if they don't follow the rules, yes. The fans didn't get fucked, they would get fucked if they had to stay there for an uncertain amount of time and then the games wouldn't happen regardless. This way they at least could get home in time. Kespa isn't immune to criticism, i already stated that they should be more open about the details.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
Ok so your first sentence is bullshit stalling because you don't have a counterpoint. I do realize it's a live event. Dunno how this has any bearing on what I just said You put words in quotes that I didn't say. Quotation marks are for quoting things not random bullshit conjectures that you make. Then you call whichever mystery person said that quote "naive" but I feel ok about that because I didn't say it.
Explain to me again how one map awarded to Jin Air for every half hour late delays jack shit
Yeah arguing with you never works, that's why i won't anymore, always the same... Also quotation marks aren't only used for direct quotation, but that isn't really the point (even though you try really hard)
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If you read Wax's tweet in the OP it seems that they were literally trapped and unable to move. Dunno how you foresee that
And that matters why exactly? Fact is one team didn't show up in time. WHY isn't really important at all. I understand that people here wanted to see the games and are pissed cause it didn't happen, but following the schedule is not "a stupid rule".
So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
If it is reasonable to postpone Champions League matches once in a while due to unexpected circumstances, I'm pretty sure there would be a way to postpone a Starcraft match. This is really just overly strict Kespa ruling. The rules are the rules I guess, but maybe they should think about changing them when they are stupid. And given that there was some referee decision involved that could have gone the other way, it is quite understandable why people (including me) are upset.
People are upset cause they don't care if it runs an hour later. They simply aren't affected as much as spotv (and kespa). If starcraft would be the number one event on spotv and they would expect huge viewer rating i am sure rescheduling would have been an option, but that's apparently not the world we live in right now. So you either accept the rules (i don't think they are stupid at all), or you make a fuss about it and call Kespa evil. And yeah Kespa is so so evil, trying their hardest to make sc2 work in korea. Rules are always stupid when you are the one they are enforced upon...
I think you won't argue any more because you have still yet to counter my point from five posts ago. You made up a point to counter, I pointed that out, and now you think I'm too mean to argue with. 10/10
I think there are plenty of people on this site who can attest to the fact that my views can be changed by good arguments. You however have yet to provide any. But keep deflecting
The term must be in their handbook for at least the duration of this round/season. Judge KeSPA however you like but rules simply cannot be changed midway
On February 09 2015 23:07 Clonester wrote: There have been late teams. For being late you lose a map. Giving JinAir every 30 mins a map would be fair thing, it would not delay a the event into midnight but still give em time and the fans could finally see something.
Going with this "buuuhuuu its a live event" (using red viper quotation mark style) doesnt make sense: The game is played is called StarCraft, games tend to be arround 5 mins to 2 hours long. Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team. Also it is no argument, because this "live event" tends to be sheduled for 2-3 hours in the SpoTV shedules for this day. Now they have shown 10 mins preshow and 5 mins "winner interview". What did SpoTV did do the rest? Showing strange interviews with plastic hammers?
Maybe Legend phoned the refs and told em they will come out of the tunnel in 3 hours, so the def lose was the only way to go. But then you should tell it your fans who fucking came trough the snow in to the Nexon Arena to see great games and not the most pathetic winner interview in korean esport.
It is like people pretend KESPA doing everything right because they are KESPA. And people seem to love rules because they common sense is a bad thing.
Yeah a lot of people pretend that Kespa does the right thing, the circlejerk definitely is headed in that direction here I still agree with the transparency concerns, but i also still think it is more reasonable to assume that Startale couldn't make it then it is that Kespa doesn't like ex esf teams and loves to show them exactly that.
Just giving def lose for being late because the shedule becomes problematic is no where an argument, because the games can drag out hours more then a late team.
Oh so cause it still could get worse in a best case scenario (starts on time), you should go for a worst case scenario (starts late) cause the games could all be 5 mins long and thus you wouldn't delay anything? Seams reasonable.
You still dont want to accept the point in giving def maps per time. You just dont read it or just dont accept it. If you use def maps per lost time (1 map per 30 mins ), the not so good case scenario (starting late) would never happen. After 2 hours JinAir would have 4-0. But if ST-Yoe would be 1 hour late, it would be 2-0 for ST-Yoe and fans would still see some action. The worst case scenario is still not starting late but not starting, giving fans out at the monitors and in the Nexon Arena the amazing 5 minute show they made to show their high production value. And when ST-Yoe told em they cant show up at all or will be late so hard that they have to sleep in the tunnel, then KESPA should fucking tell it to the people. Else they deserve standing in the shoots that are fired from SC II fans.
And when it comes to rules for players who belong to KESPA holders (Jin Air, SKT1, KT, SGK and CJ in SC II), Kespa has often been more leniend to their players/teams then to players/teams who just were part in their product to fill open competeter spots. SSL Qualification anyone?
Maybe you just must be slaped by your boss when you had to stay in front of a car crash on a highway for hours and he will just tell you: Why didnt you sleep in your buro?
I mean this would be somewhat ok if there was a chance startale actually could show up in the next hour or so. Right now we only can assume that this might have been the case though. I would like to believe this wasn't really a thing, other people here probably think Startale could have made it in the next 10 minutes though ^^
SSL Qualification anyone?
I guess you think about creator here? I am not sure about the details anymore, but iirc creator was late and didn't call anyone before, Jinair did?
I don't understand why they don't just make them forfeit one game every 30 minutes or something.... arrive 1 hr late, you start 0-2, but at least we still have content.
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you?
Well for sure I don't understand why someone would vigorously defend the imperfections.
I guess it is better to pretend that there are no limiting factors? In a perfect world startale would play jinair even 5 hours from now i guess. The winning team wouldn't have a disadvantage tomorrow obviously, cause people don't need to sleep in that utopia. yada yada yada (yes i know this is childish, but so are a lot of the romantic expectations here)
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
Or you know award one map to Jin Air for every half hour ST is late. It's really simple and is even more reasonable than the "only reasonable thing to do in the end"
It's great to see you have all the inside information, maybe you should schedule spotv games ? You realize that this is a live broadcast? This event would have started at 19:00 KST, you don't think this is already pretty late so the schedule is even more important? Sry but "they should just delay it a bit" is really naive to say, i am sure Kespa (and spotv) know their stuff better than some angry fans in the TL forum
On February 09 2015 22:30 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 09 2015 22:21 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] So you're saying if someone is late the circumstances that make them late do not matter AT ALL
Sweet Christ this is stupid
Yeah i think you whining about kespa is stupid too, great to agree we both are stupid It doesn't matter cause the result is that the match can't be played today. It surely isn't JinAir's fault cause they apparently were there on time. Startale wasn't, thus they get dq'ed. It's really simple and the only reasonable thing to do in the end.
It's not the only reasonable thing because we still don't know when ST-YF would have made it to the studio. We don't know that it would have taken 5 hours. We don't know that the studio is only booked for 5 hours. This lack of transparency isn't just an annoyance, it is getting in the way of us knowing whether KeSPA is being draconic or not. And there is absolutely precedence for them being pointlessly draconic in their rulings.
As i said, i agree about the transparency aspect. But i also think Kespa and Spotv know their stuff better than TL forum posters. It's easy to cry "evil kespa", and people like to do it a lot.
So in short, for you, TV broadcast schedule is much more important than the competition itself?
This is really what I hate about many people here, how the only thing they care about is that starcraft is "on TV" and "big" and indulge in watching glitter and show and "production" and the greatest thing ever was when BW used to sell out sport arenas.
I would really appreciate much more if everyone involved was friendly to everyone else, if it were a group of people who love the game and want to create the best competition. I can't help but wonder if this coveted "growth" really makes anything better at all. Maybe it will be the best times when all of this blows over and there will be just a couple of amateur leagues to watch, where those running them will do it from pure passion and the atmosphere of something good will prevail once again.
No, but it is more important for Kespa and Spotv and i can understand why that is. I also would have loved to see Maru play Life today, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when startale simply doesn't show up. We don't know if they would be there in the next 30 mins, but i trust Kespa and Spotv to make an informed decision if they could still play the game today (which again, is really the only reasonable option). Some guys here rather try to make their own theories though, Startale as ex esf team obviously isn't important enough yada yada yada... It is fine to be emotional about it cause you are passionate, but sometimes the easy explanation is the right one, Startale probably just couldn't get there in the next hour or so...
You still don't understand the point at all, do you? If you are a fan of SC2, you should care first and foremost about the SC2 competition, not about the convenience of some TV broadcaster.
They could have easily played the game on another time and broadcast it just online, or if they don't want to invest resources into that, just publish the results. Anything would be better for the competition than to just write off a team because they were hit by a force of nature.
And you don't understand that we don't live in a perfect world, do you? edit: i am already waiting for the end of proleague when startale doesn't make playoffs cause of this, it will be glorious
So "we don't live in a perfect world" in your mind translates to ST can go get fucked, fans can get fucked, and KeSPA is immune from criticism?
ST can get fucked if they don't follow the rules, yes.
Since when is following rules a virtue? Since when are all rules good by virtue of existing? Since when is the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law?
Hypothetical situation time! If a terrorist broke into a Seoul TV news station and went on the air saying "if any Startale players attend Proleague finals tonight, my friends will kill those players' family members," and out of fear for their families' safety the players didn't attend, what do you think, should KeSPA disqualify Startale?
I'm going to assume that your answer is "no, they shouldn't." So the question becomes "what excuse is good enough?" Unforeseeable weather + unforeseeable accident + unforeseeably being stuck in a tunnel when the accident happens, and not being able to get out, is a pretty damn good excuse.
The fans didn't get fucked, they would get fucked if they had to stay there for an uncertain amount of time and then the games wouldn't happen regardless.
I dunno about you, I feel like I got fucked.
And for the fans in the studio, KeSPA officials could have easily said "look we think they'll be here in two hours, but there are no guarantees." Then if the fans want to stay, that's on them. They can still leave at the exact same time they left this way.
On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote: I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST
Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot.
In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid.
On February 09 2015 20:43 brickrd wrote: i'm pretty sure that in any major competitive sport if an entire team's airplane were delayed the team wouldn't be DQed for not showing up. how is a traffic problem different? are they just supposed to, like, floor it? start doing sick jumps over the other cars? how early do they have to leave to be considered "responsible"? 30 minutes early? 2 hours early? a day early? sometimes shit actually does just happen, man.
+1
This is the most reasonable post I've read in this thread. I challenge any of you who claim kespa made the right decision to answer the questions brickrd raised. I'm so sick of the "rules are rules"-people and their clueless idea of how the real world works baffles me. Sometimes thing happen that are way out of your control, letting some old geezers with a power hard-on getting away with disqalifying a team for reasons out of anyones control and screwing the fans over with what could possibly be an awesome game with great talents clashing is not ideal.
Rules such as these should be regarded as guidelines and kespa should be about dealing with such situations by making the right decision holding the fans interest as the first priority.
Setting an example with a DQ in this instance makes no sense, why is it more effective than let's say fining the team or point deductions? The difference being the fans still get to see the game. Punishing a team for being late because of circumstances out of their control in order to sway them from showing up late in the future because of circumstances out of their control seem rather unlogical to begin with. It's not like they were late because they had to take a detour because Life wanted to get ice cream from a peculiar ice cream shop 30 miles in the wrong direction. They were late and they had a SOLID excuse with SOLID proof.
If it's solely a cost issue then it's even more pathetic that they would mask it as something else, if you can't afford any other decision than to DQ then just be upright about it, noone will blame you for that. Treat us like adults and don't give us the rules are rules bullshit.
although i understand a schedule is somewhat important, i cant imagine this happening in any other "real" sport. imagine the Superbowl playoffs. one team shows up late "whuuups, disqualified!"... but then again, TIS. this is starcraft.
On February 09 2015 23:30 Arceus wrote: The term must be in their handbook for at least the duration of this round/season. Judge KeSPA however you like but rules simply cannot be changed midway
Someone would say that having rules is something useful that Blizzard and the ESL could learn off.
On February 09 2015 19:28 lichter wrote: According to most weather websites, there is currently little to no snow in Seoul right now. So it was probably just traffic.
On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote: I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST
Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot.
In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid.
Just, this.
1h30 left for them to come, let's do that 30min maps thing. Ok, 3-0, sounds like a DQ, doesn't it ?
Just stop arguing about that, you know nothing (John Snow (!)) 'bout what happened for real.
The only reasonnable thing to assume is that KeSPA should be really more transparent. Yeah, that's the fact. Let's stop arguing with all that manichaeism bullshit 'This is just', 'Kespa are morons' or whatever...
Was KESPA correct in their decision to disqualify Startale-Yoe Flash Wolves? -Yes -No -Not sure
I'm betting 1000 of my esports coins now and predicting a LANDSLIDE win for the bad decision vote.
Doesn't benefit prokespa-league by kicking out a strong contender. Doesn't benefit the players who have no doubt been practicing incredibly hard. Doesn't benefit the fans.
Rules are rules. Man what a crock of shit. This is a loss for all involved, except CJ. Buit hell a bitter victory even for them.
I can see it now after the final. XYZ wins prokespa-league!!
Random reply on TL number 412: Yeah but only 'cos Startale-Yoe were totally shafted.
On February 09 2015 23:44 astray71 wrote: I don't get why they didn't just do a map win to Jin Air instead of a full DQ on ST
Maybe they did do map wins but ST told them they don't expect to be in the studio for another 2-3 hours. Even if it's 30 min/map in the rules, ST would be DQ'd on the spot.
In reality no one here knows what was said between ST and the refs so people arguing about the whole thing is just being stupid.
Just, this.
1h30 left for them to come, let's do that 30min maps thing. Ok, 3-0, sounds like a DQ, doesn't it ?
Just stop arguing about that, you know nothing (John Snow (!)) 'bout what happened for real.
The only reasonnable thing to assume is that KeSPA should be really more transparent. Yeah, that's the fact. Let's stop arguing with all that manichaeism bullshit 'This is just', 'Kespa are morons' or whatever...
Indeed. If Kespa had said "Hey we talked to ST and they said not to expect them for two more hours so we DQ'd them" pretty sure no one would be that upset. There might be some people saying they should make gaps between playoff matches for rescheduling but there would be fewer angry people.
It would be preferable to having this blanket rule that takes affect at 30 minutes
Have you guys taken into consideration that they might have a broadcast schedule? I saw proleague live on TV when i was in KR, not having the match being played might cost Kespa more problems than startale.
On February 10 2015 00:05 SorrowShine wrote: Does anyone know how much were they late?
We aren't sure how late they would have been. Apparently the rule is if you are 30 minutes late you are DQ'd
So they didnt even showed up at the end? They just turned around and went home as soon as they knew they are being disqualified?
They were still sitting in a traffic jam not moving forwards or backwards. What happens after they came finally out of the tunnel is not known in public.
And all things about how the situation should have been handeld could have never existed, if KESPA just said "they told us they wount be here before 2 hours" (everybody would say DQ was okay, because no space for reshedule) or they would say "they told us they wount be here in 5 minutes" (everybody, even red viper gone mad). So we are again here with KESPA not willing to give the needed informations to judge the situation right. Is this a cultural thing, that you tell the people in Korea only what they need to know (outcome) and do not tell em why you took these decisions? And people willingtly accept this?
But for the rules = rules and nothing else people.
Work-to-rule creates serious problems and has been for examplfe forbidden for german air traffic controller and thus for all german civil servants. Rules are nothing without commen sense and will do more harm then good if just followed blindly because they are the rules someone made who did not see this situations coming.
I haven't driven in Seoul but I did drive in Manhattan and you know you have to leave early to take traffic into consideration. Sometimes it takes 5-15 minutes to cross 1 block due to not "predicted" construction, trucks dropping goods, etc.
But ST admit their fault. I dunno why you guys don't accept it
On February 10 2015 00:29 Deathstar wrote: I haven't driven in Seoul but I did drive in Manhattan and you know you have to leave early to take traffic into consideration. Sometimes it takes 5-15 minutes to cross 1 block due to not "predicted" construction, trucks dropping goods, etc.
But ST admit their fault. I dunno why you guys don't accept it
Well, this is not some random Manhattan gig(sorry), this is Proleague. Quite a big deal, and to be held accountable for a traffic accident is quite harsh, in both my and apparently many others opinion
On February 10 2015 00:29 Deathstar wrote: I haven't driven in Seoul but I did drive in Manhattan and you know you have to leave early to take traffic into consideration. Sometimes it takes 5-15 minutes to cross 1 block due to not "predicted" construction, trucks dropping goods, etc.
But ST admit their fault. I dunno why you guys don't accept it
It's a little harder to drive around a tunnel that you're trapped in. Not quite the same as running around a street where construction is occurring.
Unbelievable as usual from Kespa. Here in America, sporting events that are broadcast live frequently start behind schedule due to unforeseen circumstances, inevitable delays, and previous events going over their scheduled timeslot. How about showing a compilation of exciting round 1 highlights to pass the time for viewers until STY arrives? Or have Canata play as random on Korean GM ladder? Or any other seemingly endless entertaining possibility to fill in for the down time until the other team arrives. As others have stated, I fully agree w/ docking STY a game as penalty for being late. This is insane though, especially given how important the playoffs are in each round for season ending pts and seeding. And above all, e-sports like any other sport is ultimately about entertainment value. And this provides none.
On February 10 2015 01:21 Starecat wrote: KeSPA went full retard... No one would die if the games were to be played tomorrow.
I may be the only one, but I'm fine with it.
They run a broadcast, they have crew, spectators, an opposing team waiting, can't make them wait forever.
30mins to complete elimination might a little harsh, maybe dock one game per 30 mins (which is about what a "good" game lasts).
As for "playing them tomorrow", well no. Tomorrow there's another match so they would have 2 choices:
1: Play both matches tomorrow, leaving no times for either CJ Entus and the winner of today's match to prepare. How's that fair for CJ to get robbed of prepare time because another team was late ? It's not.
2: Move everything one day. While that may work, the schedule is way too tight between GSL, NSSL and SPL to really do this. Unless they do an extra weekend day, but they have to pay the crew and stuff for one more day... Not fair for Spotv, it's ST's fault for not being here.
On February 10 2015 01:38 Orr wrote: Unbelievable as usual from Kespa. Here in America, sporting events that are broadcast live frequently start behind schedule due to unforeseen circumstances, inevitable delays, and previous events going over their scheduled timeslot. How about showing a compilation of exciting round 1 highlights to pass the time for viewers until STY arrives? Or have Canata play as random on Korean GM ladder? Or any other seemingly endless entertaining possibility to fill in for the down time until the other team arrives. As others have stated, I fully agree w/ docking STY a game as penalty for being late. This is insane though, especially given how important the playoffs are in each round for season ending pts and seeding. And above all, e-sports like any other sport is ultimately about entertainment value. And this provides none.
Yeah I'm sure ST-Y would be thrilled to play a best of 7 series after being stuck in a car for an hour or more. And JAGW probably couldn't be happier to play the series after waiting at the Nexon Arena for hours. Seriously, no. Delaying is unacceptable. These people are gamers, they need their full mental capacity to perform. You think an ace match in a best of 7 at midnight Korean time will work? No.
I could understand the outrage if ST-Y had arrived moments later, but apparently they were still stuck in the tunnel when the broadcast went offline. That leaves KeSPA with 2 choices: DQ or reschedule. They went with the easy way. The problem isn't the decision, the decision is totally acceptable, even though everyone was looking forward to the match. The problem is that the whole situation was handled poorly and without transparency.
Lmao kespa is so dumb. So unpredictable weather and car accidents don't warrant a team to be justifiably late? Dunno how kespa can even rationalize DQing a team for such an important match when they did not do anything wrong.
On February 10 2015 01:49 Elentos wrote: These people are gamers, they need their full mental capacity to perform.
If he can win after getting hit in the head, ST-FW can play after dicking around for a few hours.
They point wasn't that they can't, the point is that they wouldn't want to. And it's not "dicking around", it's being stuck in a tunnel for hours. When it's already late in the evening. It's utter shit to be forced to play after that.
On February 10 2015 01:21 Starecat wrote: KeSPA went full retard... No one would die if the games were to be played tomorrow.
I may be the only one, but I'm fine with it.
They run a broadcast, they have crew, spectators, an opposing team waiting, can't make them wait forever.
30mins to complete elimination might a little harsh, maybe dock one game per 30 mins (which is about what a "good" game lasts).
As for "playing them tomorrow", well no. Tomorrow there's another match so they would have 2 choices:
1: Play both matches tomorrow, leaving no times for either CJ Entus and the winner of today's match to prepare. How's that fair for CJ to get robbed of prepare time because another team was late ? It's not.
2: Move everything one day. While that may work, the schedule is way too tight between GSL, NSSL and SPL to really do this. Unless they do an extra weekend day, but they have to pay the crew and stuff for one more day... Not fair for Spotv, it's ST's fault for not being here.
No, that's right. Instead of making their crew, spectators and the opposing team waiting, they made their time completely worthless. Clearly better than make them wait!
Still not ST's fault, they aren't responsible of anything here. Jeesh...
On February 10 2015 01:21 Starecat wrote: KeSPA went full retard... No one would die if the games were to be played tomorrow.
I may be the only one, but I'm fine with it.
They run a broadcast, they have crew, spectators, an opposing team waiting, can't make them wait forever.
30mins to complete elimination might a little harsh, maybe dock one game per 30 mins (which is about what a "good" game lasts).
As for "playing them tomorrow", well no. Tomorrow there's another match so they would have 2 choices:
1: Play both matches tomorrow, leaving no times for either CJ Entus and the winner of today's match to prepare. How's that fair for CJ to get robbed of prepare time because another team was late ? It's not.
2: Move everything one day. While that may work, the schedule is way too tight between GSL, NSSL and SPL to really do this. Unless they do an extra weekend day, but they have to pay the crew and stuff for one more day... Not fair for Spotv, it's ST's fault for not being here.
No, that's right. Instead of making their crew, spectators and the opposing team waiting, they made their time completely worthless. Clearly better than make them wait!
Still not ST's fault, they aren't responsible of anything here. Jeesh...
Well I was in the studio today, as I will tomorrow, and I prefered being able to leave after 30 mins than wait forever for a team that would ultimatly not show up or would show up so late that it would be impossible to get back home (subway stops aroung 1am in Seoul, taxi is too expensive as I have more than 1 hour of travel time to get there).
Also, it started showing around 2pm here, more than enough time to plan ahead, it wasn't a "sudden" storm or anything. I went to the city at 3pm the traffic was already bad and it was not rush hour yet.
So yeah, the weather screwed them over and it sucks, but they are not 100% blameless, next time they'll plan more time.
EDIT: Apparently it's not due to the bad weather as stated in Legend's tweet but because of an accident in a tunnel. Maybe they left on time but they indeed couldn't shit about that. I still think that KeSPA's decision in fair for everybody else, but you can't blame ST anymore, just blame whoever you like to blame when bad things happen for no reason.
On February 10 2015 01:49 Elentos wrote: These people are gamers, they need their full mental capacity to perform.
If he can win after getting hit in the head, ST-FW can play after dicking around for a few hours.
They point wasn't that they can't, the point is that they wouldn't want to. And it's not "dicking around", it's being stuck in a tunnel for hours. When it's already late in the evening. It's utter shit to be forced to play after that.
Yes, well, it's also utter shit to not get a chance to play in the Playoffs at all, so I think ST-FW would have weighed the two shits against one another and decided that representing their team and having a 1% chance of winning is still better than not representing their team and having a 0% chance of winning.
On February 10 2015 01:49 Growiel wrote: it's ST's fault for not being here.
How on Earth is its Startales fault for another persons car breaking down in a tunnel, or there being an accident? Can't go forwards, can't go back. At least that was the situation as I understand it.
It's a shit happens situation, in which case there should be some lee way to allow the show to continue. Law allows for mitigating circumstance, why can't KESPA?
On February 10 2015 01:49 Growiel wrote: it's ST's fault for not being here.
How on Earth is its Startales fault for another persons car breaking down in a tunnel, or there being an accident? Can't go forwards, can't go back. At least that was the situation as I understand it.
It's a shit happens situation, in which case there should be some lee way to allow the show to continue. Law allows for mitigating circumstance, why can't KESPA?
I just learned about the accident on reddit and edited my previous post.
On February 10 2015 01:49 Elentos wrote: These people are gamers, they need their full mental capacity to perform.
If he can win after getting hit in the head, ST-FW can play after dicking around for a few hours.
They point wasn't that they can't, the point is that they wouldn't want to. And it's not "dicking around", it's being stuck in a tunnel for hours. When it's already late in the evening. It's utter shit to be forced to play after that.
Yes, well, it's also utter shit to not get a chance to play in the Playoffs at all, so I think ST-FW would have weighed the two shits against one another and decided that representing their team and having a 1% chance of winning is still better than not representing their team and having a 0% chance of winning.
As I said, this is an issue with KeSPA not being transparent enough. We don't know how long ST-Y would have taken to get to the place but I'm sure the people who made the DQ decision were fully aware. Maybe they knew that giving JAGW a map win every 30 minutes ST-Y was late would result in JAGW going 4-0 and that's why they made their call. Maybe they were focused on keeping the schedule up. Nevertheless, delaying on the same day would have been garbage. It's bad for ST-Y because they were stuck forever, and it's bad for JAGW because they were there in time and had to wait for hours. So either send the players home and reschedule the entire round, or throw out ST-Y (but in a less shitty way they did).
Wonder if anyone was hurt in the accident? Whilst we all express our varying opinions on this, there may be mothers and fathers out there crying.. Makes you think.
On February 10 2015 02:26 fruity. wrote: Wonder if anyone was hurt in the accident? Whilst we all express our varying opinions on this, there may be mothers and fathers out there crying.. Makes you think.
I've thought about that, too. I hope nobody was hurt.
On February 09 2015 19:35 Jono7272 wrote: Well that sucks
On February 09 2015 19:30 lichter wrote: Any baseless suggestions of any... "extracurricular activities" will be moderated harshly, as per usual.
I'm not even sure what you are alluding to there.
They were delayed because Life insisted on playing a 17 minute guitar solo during band practice
I will not tolerate any implications that the sweep-picking and tapping section could be reasonably condensed below 8 minutes without compromising the artistic integrity of the song as a whole.
Sucks but what can you do, the broadcast schedule was already set in place and there wouldn't have been enough time to organize something between then and the match with CJ. Somehow cramming in a match and having a winner in the dead of night or in the morning wouldn't be fair to the winning team or CJ either who wouldn't know their opponent's line up.
Completely ridiculous, but what can you do I guess. Would have been nice if they could have rescheduled.
JinAir vs CJ should be a fun match but I think JinAir match up well with CJ as long as they don't let herO get on a roll, I think we're getting Jinair vs SKT in the finals for round 1
On February 10 2015 02:59 Swoopae wrote: Completely ridiculous, but what can you do I guess. Would have been nice if they could have rescheduled.
JinAir vs CJ should be a fun match but I think JinAir match up well with CJ as long as they don't let herO get on a roll, I think we're getting Jinair vs SKT in the finals for round 1
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
Jin Air called ahead of time and notified them that they were going to be late. Creator did not as far as we know. The timeline from Olivia's tweets about the situation suggested that Creator was also later than Jin Air, but not by much I think. Jin Air was on time anyway in the end I think.
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
The Creator/Jin Air case was that Jin Air weren't sure they could make it on time for the SSL qualifiers. They made a call and told Kespa they might be late and the officials said it wouldn't be a problem. The Jin Air players made it on time that day, but Creator did not quite. He then heard that it would have been OK for Jin Air to be late and wanted to play the qualifiers too but was DQed and kicked out by the security.
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
I know Creator had to be escorted off the premises by security when he arrived late because he got all emotional and caused a commotion. This is the first I heard about Maru turning up late though.
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
No.
On December 11 2014 17:59 olimoley wrote: Here are the full facts:
Jin Air called ahead to SpotTV stating they may be late. Admins held a conference with the managers/coaches on site telling us what happened, stating they would like to let Jin Air play even if they arrive a little late. Jin Air managed to arrive on time. Creator did not. Creator found out what happened with Jin Air and was pleading with the admins for them to make the same exception, he got a little too emotional (As in sobbing/raising voice. Nothing I would have called the police for but enough to disturb the players in the admin's eyes) and mall security was called, then the police on site. He was escorted out.
On February 09 2015 19:25 SuperHofmann wrote: Maru is late at SSL Quali: no problem Creator is late at SSL Quali: DQ ST is late at PL Playoffs vs Jin Air: DQ
Can someone elaborate on this? I missed the Maru/Creator bit I think, did that really happen? That's... pretty fucked up if true. Or Creator significantly later than Maru was?
Jin Air was afraid of being late to the SSL Qualification. They called Kespa (and yeah, they are KESPA) and KESPA said, its fine, no broplem. When I recall correct, Jin Air wasnt late in the end, just tight timing. But at all KESPA told em okay to be late.
Creator was late to the same SSL Quali. He is not part of KESPA nor his team. He didnt know you can call em (he didnt knew their number either I think). SSL told him he could not attent. Someone told Creator that Jin Air called KESPA and KESPA told em being late no problem. Creator again going to SSL Team and asked why Jin Air could be late and he could not. And yeah, then there was this typical Creator being very emotional. In the end SSL called the police and the police moved Creator out of the building.
so disappointed !!!! why not just reschedule it?? cpl of hours, anything possible... we want matches to be decided by being played (and viewed!) specially when there's other circumstances as well... I mean who or whom really gains from this decision? not the sport... and not the viewers/fans/sponsors either. (aren't fans a top priority in an dwindling sport?)
Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Rescheduling isn't a reasonable option because of how tightly packed everything is. Not only will it be pretty difficult to find a good time with all the other tournaments going on, that completely throws CJ and SKT T1 under the bus.
Delaying is the only potential solution (1 map / 30 mins or something) but that still isn't very fair for Jin Air and is hard on the fans. Since there was no knowledge on when ST would show up, people could be sitting around forever, and would probably mentally tax JAG enough to affect their match tonight. At some point you just have to call it.
This doesn't happen in "real" sports because the team buses get police escorts to clear the roads for them.
just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
How hard is it to play on Wednesday morning before GSL? I mean, Terminator already prepared for any matches for PL and GSL so it's not like he would be straiNed last minute. Or JA doesn't field him, they already have a pretty deep lineup. I would rather see them try to put a ragtag match together not aired on TV (maybe just streamed) and actually play the match (maybe just give JAGW a map advantage at the beginning) instead of immediate DQs and tarnishing the integrity of the tournament.
It's 2015, scheduling like this shouldn't be an issue, especially in a team league. It's like in major league baseball -- if weather or unforseen circumstances prevent the game from being played, they push it back and make it a double-header the next day, they don't just forfeit games. Idk that's my opinion.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day. It'd also suck for CJ as the opening players would be announced late, giving them little time to plan out a strategy/practice themselves.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
How hard is it to play on Wednesday morning before GSL? I mean, Terminator already prepared for any matches for PL and GSL so it's not like he would be straiNed last minute. Or JA doesn't field him, they already have a pretty deep lineup. I would rather see them try to put a ragtag match together not aired on TV (maybe just streamed) and actually play the match (maybe just give JAGW a map advantage at the beginning) instead of immediate DQs and tarnishing the integrity of the tournament.
It's 2015, scheduling like this shouldn't be an issue, especially in a team league. It's like in major league baseball -- if weather or unforseen circumstances prevent the game from being played, they push it back and make it a double-header the next day, they don't just forfeit games. Idk that's my opinion.
I agree with your opinion. There's "Sport" in eSports and DQing a team for an event that the team is not responsible of is not very sport-like, but much more along the lines of "oh hey, we hadn't planned what happens in that case at all. Do we try something intelligent or do we go the lazy route?". I mean it's not like if Startale had been late because they spent the night before partying lol.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
How hard is it to play on Wednesday morning before GSL? I mean, Terminator already prepared for any matches for PL and GSL so it's not like he would be straiNed last minute. Or JA doesn't field him, they already have a pretty deep lineup. I would rather see them try to put a ragtag match together not aired on TV (maybe just streamed) and actually play the match (maybe just give JAGW a map advantage at the beginning) instead of immediate DQs and tarnishing the integrity of the tournament.
It's 2015, scheduling like this shouldn't be an issue, especially in a team league. It's like in major league baseball -- if weather or unforseen circumstances prevent the game from being played, they push it back and make it a double-header the next day, they don't just forfeit games. Idk that's my opinion.
SPL and GSL start at the same time , and players don't come 5 minutes early and play their games, there is make-up and so on. Furthermore playing in competition is actually way more tiring then playing at home for practice, so Terminator (for instance) should have had a disadvantage because of the other team? Doesn't seem fair to me
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Whats NSSL?
Naver SpotTV Starleague, just SSL with it's new head sponsor now.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Whats NSSL?
Naver SpotTV Starleague, just SSL with it's new head sponsor now.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Whats NSSL?
Naver StarCraft 2 StarLeague, SpoTV's individual league. SSL, SC2SL were other abbreviations I believe.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day. It'd also suck for CJ as the opening players would be announced late, giving them little time to plan out a strategy/practice themselves.
Nah, they would be able to handle it decently, u are exaggerating. I also believe that the main aspect is that the game somehow gets played. crowd can go home/stay partially/stay full time etc as they wish ofc... small disadvantages here and there but all handable, I mean a cpl of hours late at times is nothing new or unhandable for these best in the world-pros. Or playing early morning etc etc. Just find the time/solution that makes most sense, period.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
It'd also suck for CJ as the opening players would be announced late, giving them little time to plan out a strategy/practice themselves.
So instead of inconveniencing two teams, we're going to straight up disqualify one and render all of their work this season in getting to the playoffs essentially meaningless. And why would it suck for CJ? The winner of ST/JA would have just as little time to prepare as CJ, so they would be on perfectly even footing.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Whats NSSL?
Naver SpotTV Starleague, just SSL with it's new head sponsor now.
On February 10 2015 03:26 vult wrote: Wow this went from talking about the DQ straight into arguing about the Creator/Maru incident... sad.
Anyways, it is sad that they couldn't postpone the match due to unforseen circumstances. STY, I can imagine, worked hard and prepared for this, only to get DQ'ed over something completely out of their control. But that's nazi Kespa for you!!
Rescheduling it would be difficult given how much SC2 there is in Korea atm.
Monday/Tuesday is PL
Wednesday/Friday is GSL
Thursday is NSSL
Maru, Rogue and Leenock are all due to play in NSSL on Thursday. Terminator is in GSL on Wednesday. Life has his GSL group on Friday.
The only way they'd be able to postpone without fucking up individual schedules would be to push the entire playoff to next week.
Whats NSSL?
Naver StarCraft 2 StarLeague, SpoTV's individual league. SSL, SC2SL were other abbreviations I believe.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
Apparently it is debatable because of all the time we spent debating it in this thread. Also one map per 30 minutes wouldn't make anyone later than necessary. Many games are less than that amount of time.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
And what if the series had gone to 9 games, with 3 of them being 2-hour long Swarm Host games? What then? They would have canceled the series halfway through and postponed the conclusion until the next day? (So it is possible! Then why didn't they just do that?) Or the workers would have been SOL and had to find their own transportation home? (So it is possible! Then why didn't they just do that?)
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
Apparently it is debatable because of all the time we spent debating it in this thread. Also one map per 30 minutes wouldn't make anyone later than necessary. Many games are less than that amount of time.
DEBATE
Most of the comments in this thread are of the "Kespa!!! lololol" nature.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
And what if the series had gone to 9 games, with 3 of them being 2-hour long Swarm Host games? What then?
Now imagine this scenario with the match starting 3 hours later.
My point is people here are trying to run a broadcasting company without considering any of the unknowns. You cannot make decisions in a vacuum.
On February 09 2015 19:28 lichter wrote: According to most weather websites, there is currently little to no snow in Seoul right now. So it was probably just traffic.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
Apparently it is debatable because of all the time we spent debating it in this thread. Also one map per 30 minutes wouldn't make anyone later than necessary. Many games are less than that amount of time.
DEBATE
Most of the comments in this thread are of the "Kespa!!! lololol" nature.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
And what if the series had gone to 9 games, with 3 of them being 2-hour long Swarm Host games? What then?
Now imagine this scenario with the match starting 3 hours later.
My point is people here are trying to run a broadcasting company without considering any of the unknowns. You cannot make decisions in a vacuum.
There wouldn't be any unknowns if KeSPA condescended to explain the situation to us mere mortals. Instead, they treat the disqualification of a quarterfinalist team like it ain't no thing. Can you imagine Blizzard disqualifying Taeja from Blizzcon prior to the Taeja vs Life match, because he got stuck on the freeway because of an accident? I can't. I find the idea ludicrous. You don't disqualify quarterfinalists for things literally out of their control when there are (unideal, be that as it may) workarounds. And nothing about KeSPA's handling of this situation screams to me "we tried everything and we really wanted this to work out, but there just wasn't any way." You'd have a lot less angry viewers if it seemed like they just gave a shit.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
Apparently it is debatable because of all the time we spent debating it in this thread. Also one map per 30 minutes wouldn't make anyone later than necessary. Many games are less than that amount of time.
DEBATE
Most of the comments in this thread are of the "Kespa!!! lololol" nature.
On February 10 2015 04:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:46 Hier wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:20 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:05 KatatoniK wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
And what if the series had gone to 9 games, with 3 of them being 2-hour long Swarm Host games? What then?
Now imagine this scenario with the match starting 3 hours later.
My point is people here are trying to run a broadcasting company without considering any of the unknowns. You cannot make decisions in a vacuum.
There wouldn't be any unknowns if KeSPA condescended to explain the situation to us mere mortals. Instead, they treat the disqualification of a quarterfinalist team like it ain't no thing. Can you imagine Blizzard disqualifying Taeja from Blizzcon prior to the Taeja vs Life match, because he got stuck on the freeway because of an accident? I can't. I find the idea ludicrous. You don't disqualify quarterfinalists for things literally out of their control when there are (unideal, be that as it may) workarounds. And nothing about KeSPA's handling of this situation screams to me "we tried everything and we really wanted this to work out, but there just wasn't any way." You'd have a lot less angry viewers if it seemed like they just gave a shit.
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
This isn't some small online tournament; there are way too many things to consider, including broadcasting slots which are decided months in advance. We don't know too many things.
I am not thrilled, but from their position the decision was correct. It's not debatable.
Apparently it is debatable because of all the time we spent debating it in this thread. Also one map per 30 minutes wouldn't make anyone later than necessary. Many games are less than that amount of time.
DEBATE
Most of the comments in this thread are of the "Kespa!!! lololol" nature.
On February 10 2015 04:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:46 Hier wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:20 pure.Wasted wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:05 KatatoniK wrote:
On February 10 2015 04:00 ArtistenSc2 wrote: just reschedule it to 3 hours later? decent solution and handable... JA should be able to handle 3hs for an reset and ST would be able to arrive and have a short break and warmup. Totally agree that ST has to accept more or less whatever solution and be happy to get to play, regardless "their chances". one makes it as fair as possible, and then all accepts and moves on, making the best out of it...
The match was scheduled for 7pm KST. 3 hours later would be 10pm. By the time the match would be over it'd be what 11pm/midnight/1am?
How would the crowd get home from the venue, how long would it take for the teams to get home? It'd provide a major disadvantage for the winning team as they'd get back late, they'd be tired for the next match the following day.
How is this a problem? If someone doesn't have a way to get home at 11PM/midnight/1AM, then that individual human being can make the decision to leave early. I know KeSPA's hardcore, but I doubt they have armed guards at the doors keeping anyone from leaving.
Other individual human beings, who do not have a problem getting home late, can elect to stay late.
What about the workers that actually have to stay until the broadcast is over? What if they rely on public transportation? Maybe the mall has a closing time.
And what if the series had gone to 9 games, with 3 of them being 2-hour long Swarm Host games? What then?
Now imagine this scenario with the match starting 3 hours later.
My point is people here are trying to run a broadcasting company without considering any of the unknowns. You cannot make decisions in a vacuum.
There wouldn't be any unknowns if KeSPA condescended to explain the situation to us mere mortals. Instead, they treat the disqualification of a quarterfinalist team like it ain't no thing. Can you imagine Blizzard disqualifying Taeja from Blizzcon prior to the Taeja vs Life match, because he got stuck on the freeway because of an accident? I can't. I find the idea ludicrous. You don't disqualify quarterfinalists for things literally out of their control when there are (unideal, be that as it may) workarounds. And nothing about KeSPA's handling of this situation screams to me "we tried everything and we really wanted this to work out, but there just wasn't any way." You'd have a lot less angry viewers if it seemed like they just gave a shit.
If you can name me one company that discloses all the details of all their decisions, including meeting minutes, phone call transcripts, and future plans I will understand where you're coming from. Further, all the comments regarding KeSPA "not giving a shit" need to stop, they are not productive and are clearly false.
To attend to your example, if Taeja were stuck en route to Blizzcon with no ETA and it being his turn to play, then yes, I can imagine Blizzard letting the opponent move on. If their stage had been reserved for WoW finals, or something, and then the closing ceremony they would not be able to afford to wait an unknown amount of time and push everything down.
In the position KeSPA found themselves, their decision was definitely not incorrect. Could they adjust in the future, demanding competitor presence earlier, for example, among many, to avoid something like this from happening again? Absolutely.
But please don't say things like "Well clearly the answer was X! Dumb KeSPA."
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
So from what I can understand, the two sides of the arguments go like this:
One side is unhappy that yoestartale got disqualified because of weather conditions preventing them from reaching the venue, which was through no fault of their own. This is bad for esports and fans in general because we were robbed of a great match of sc2.
On the other side are people who think that it was fair that yst was disqualified because spotv was following the rules set forth prior to the match, which all teams agreed to abide by. This is unfortunate but necessary since we can't just bend the rules when we don't like them.
There's no need to jump down each other's throats. I think we can all agree that it sucks to not have this match played out. Hopefully this doesn't happen to the next match, and they can change the existing rule to allow for unforseen circumstances.
Kespa was terrified something like MVP's round playoff run would happen again this season "New kespa team without a huge company sponsor about to win, I think not"
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
In America, and I'm assuming other places as well, if a big sporting event, even a televised one, is unable to happen due to weather or accidents or whatever, its simply rescheduled to whenever is available. Really disappointing kespa didn't want to do this and instead unfairly give a team a loss for something they had no control over. Makes me not even want to watch proleague for awhile. Bad timing considering how lacking the tourney scene is right now, the korean betting scandals, etc.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
No they don't stop lieing. This world caters to people who can't get to things on time or do stuff wrong. We are a generation of self entitled babies. It sucks but you need to deal with it.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
Because there was an accident in a tunnel that apparantly only the ST players needed to go through? Then what does it matter that all the others were there.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
I don't think it is on Startale that a traffic accident happened? I mean Life is really good, but he is not an irl god that can forsee things like this and avoid them.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
I don't think it is on Startale that a traffic accident happened? I mean Life is really good, but he is not an irl god that can forsee things like this and avoid them.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
No they don't stop lieing. This world caters to people who can't get to things on time or do stuff wrong. We are a generation of self entitled babies. It sucks but you need to deal with it.
What a negative and wrong attitude.
All you people talking about "professionalism" and this kind of nonsense, seriously? We are talking about people who play this game 14 hours a day, do you really think they are going to not do everything in their power to show up? Shit happens, doesn't matter who you are.
Accounting for someone who is late because of circumstances is not "cathering to them like a child". It is professional and flexible behavior, based on fulfilling mutual goals instead of dropping everything as soon as there is a minor problem.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
No they don't stop lieing. This world caters to people who can't get to things on time or do stuff wrong. We are a generation of self entitled babies. It sucks but you need to deal with it.
What a negative and wrong attitude.
All you people talking about "professionalism" and this kind of nonsense, seriously? We are talking about people who play this game 14 hours a day, do you really think they are going to not do everything in their power to show up? Shit happens, doesn't matter who you are.
Accounting for someone who is late because of circumstances is not "cathering to them like a child". It is professional and flexible behavior, based on fulfilling mutual goals instead of dropping everything as soon as there is a minor problem.
Shit happens and other professionals GET THERE. making everyone else wait more than 30 minutes isn't a "minor problem", it is no-showing. You have to note that there is some cushion in the time, it is just that ST didn't make it.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
I'm serious. Nobody here would ever fail an exam because a train did arrive with about 30min delay and the student wasn't able to be there in time. Everything that's beyond the individuals power doesn't result in a punishmen and I really doubt that Switzerland is the only country where that's the case, tbh.
Although I have to admit that Switzerland might be a bit different to many other countries. Simply because if our trains are delayed (even if it's only 5-10min) everyone goes nuts.
edit: Checked a few universities around the world. Every single one had some kind of ruling for exactly these situations: If you're late to an exam because the public transport was delayed/impossible due to whatever reason, you're excused. So... I'm not sarcastic, seems to be true in many countries :-P
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
You could study wherever you want here and it's not about them catering me like a child. EVERY kind of exam would accept a delay if the reason I arrived late wasn't my bad.
And lets face it: There's no reasonable explanation to let someone fail an exam because he was late without any wrong doing. Otherwise you'd basically force anyone who takes the exam to live right around the corner. Every other way it might be impossible to arrive in time (-> 08:00 exam? Well, if the first 2 trains are fucked up, it'd be impossible to arrive in time.)
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
I would say the exam thing depends on country. Mine usually has a second chance to take the exam already planned in. And many abuse this to not have 3 exams in a week for around 3 weeks. You'll fail em though if you can't make it to either date. Exams are something different then a sport though.
Either way everyone has rules about being late. They can be harsh or lax. Sports usually don't care about the reason and are rather strict in general and its widely accepted to be that way. But it is still the worst way to lose, so I hope it won't affect ST-Yoe to much.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
I'm serious. Nobody here would ever fail an exam because a train did arrive with about 30min delay and the student wasn't able to be there in time. Everything that's beyond the individuals power doesn't result in a punishmen and I really doubt that Switzerland is the only country where that's the case, tbh.
Although I have to admit that Switzerland might be a bit different to many other countries. Simply because if our trains are delayed (even if it's only 5-10min) everyone goes nuts.
edit: Checked a few universities around the world. Every single one had some kind of ruling for exactly these situations: If you're late to an exam because the public transport was delayed/impossible due to whatever reason, you're excused. So... I'm not sarcastic, seems to be true in many countries :-P
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
You could study wherever you want here and it's not about them catering me like a child. EVERY kind of exam would accept a delay if the reason I arrived late wasn't my bad.
And lets face it: There's no reasonable explanation to let someone fail an exam because he was late without any wrong doing. Otherwise you'd basically force anyone who takes the exam to live right around the corner. Every other way it might be impossible to arrive in time (-> 08:00 exam? Well, if the first 2 trains are fucked up, it'd be impossible to arrive in time.)
Final grades are due 2-3 days after the last Final Exam date. If you're late to a final, there is no makeup. You fail. It's like that for most universities afaik (at least in the US)
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
any public liberal university will let you show up at any point during an exam. Case and point the last 2 years of my life.
On February 10 2015 06:40 Gojira621 wrote: In America, and I'm assuming other places as well, if a big sporting event, even a televised one, is unable to happen due to weather or accidents or whatever, its simply rescheduled to whenever is available. Really disappointing kespa didn't want to do this and instead unfairly give a team a loss for something they had no control over. Makes me not even want to watch proleague for awhile. Bad timing considering how lacking the tourney scene is right now, the korean betting scandals, etc.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
I'm serious. Nobody here would ever fail an exam because a train did arrive with about 30min delay and the student wasn't able to be there in time. Everything that's beyond the individuals power doesn't result in a punishmen and I really doubt that Switzerland is the only country where that's the case, tbh.
Although I have to admit that Switzerland might be a bit different to many other countries. Simply because if our trains are delayed (even if it's only 5-10min) everyone goes nuts.
edit: Checked a few universities around the world. Every single one had some kind of ruling for exactly these situations: If you're late to an exam because the public transport was delayed/impossible due to whatever reason, you're excused. So... I'm not sarcastic, seems to be true in many countries :-P
On February 10 2015 06:36 coverpunch wrote:
On February 10 2015 05:52 Swisslink wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:43 sparklyresidue wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:39 Naikonz wrote:
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
You could study wherever you want here and it's not about them catering me like a child. EVERY kind of exam would accept a delay if the reason I arrived late wasn't my bad.
And lets face it: There's no reasonable explanation to let someone fail an exam because he was late without any wrong doing. Otherwise you'd basically force anyone who takes the exam to live right around the corner. Every other way it might be impossible to arrive in time (-> 08:00 exam? Well, if the first 2 trains are fucked up, it'd be impossible to arrive in time.)
Final grades are due 2-3 days after the last Final Exam date. If you're late to a final, there is no makeup. You fail. It's like that for most universities afaik (at least in the US)
Well, you might be sick (documented!) - therefore there has to be a makeup date anyway, doesn't it? I don't think they'd kick someone out if he ended up in the hospital a day before the finals. That's be... cruel xD And in most universities rules, the same passus that deals with illness, includes some kind of passus "or other unavoidable absences". I'd assume these "unavoidable absences" include these situations. Sometimes it's even mentioned explicitly. Of course you got to report it to the dean beforehand and prove that it wasn't your fault. But if you can prove that... I don't know if they kicked you out.
As an American, regular season sports games get rescheduled because they have the time to make it up. Playoff/postseason/finals are an entirely separate matter especially when the venue is open, the field (or internet) is in game shape, the other team is there, and the fans and staff are ready.
Eh, we can all debate whether universities should allow late students to take their tests late or not. Doesn't really matter in the long run. Especially not for me when most of my uni exams are take-home.
But rules are rules. KeSPA set the rules so that if a team is 30 minutes late, they are DQ'ed. End of story.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
You also disturb everybody in the exam room, screw up their procedures, AND vastly increase the chances of people cheating (loads of people cheat on exams by having someone get the exam questions then posting the answers half an hour into the exam).
On February 10 2015 08:07 Dimagus wrote: As an American, regular season sports games get rescheduled because they have the time to make it up. Playoff/postseason/finals are an entirely separate matter especially when the venue is open, the field (or internet) is in game shape, the other team is there, and the fans and staff are ready.
And then there's the fact that they make a fuck ton of money broadcasting the games. So yes they want to broadcast no matter what. Kespa isn't making a ton of money from these games, so they are only interested in fairness. One team made it on time, fans showed up on time, casters and crew showed up on time. Everybody else seemed to make it there on time, just not ST-Yoe. If it is snowing in a big city like that, you have to expect that accidents are likely and give yourself a lot of extra time. Don't just leave 10 minutes early and call it good.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
I'm serious. Nobody here would ever fail an exam because a train did arrive with about 30min delay and the student wasn't able to be there in time. Everything that's beyond the individuals power doesn't result in a punishmen and I really doubt that Switzerland is the only country where that's the case, tbh.
Although I have to admit that Switzerland might be a bit different to many other countries. Simply because if our trains are delayed (even if it's only 5-10min) everyone goes nuts.
edit: Checked a few universities around the world. Every single one had some kind of ruling for exactly these situations: If you're late to an exam because the public transport was delayed/impossible due to whatever reason, you're excused. So... I'm not sarcastic, seems to be true in many countries :-P
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
You could study wherever you want here and it's not about them catering me like a child. EVERY kind of exam would accept a delay if the reason I arrived late wasn't my bad.
And lets face it: There's no reasonable explanation to let someone fail an exam because he was late without any wrong doing. Otherwise you'd basically force anyone who takes the exam to live right around the corner. Every other way it might be impossible to arrive in time (-> 08:00 exam? Well, if the first 2 trains are fucked up, it'd be impossible to arrive in time.)
Cool, there are rules like that.
And guess what, there are rules that KeSPA and all of its teams follow. They may not be the same.
Ohh common!! I am sure the fans, the players on BOTH teams, and pretty much everyone else was more interested in having the games played than a forced forfeit. The players have put in so much time and effort into preparing and not to mention the enormous effort during the regular season. WTF Kespa. Late is late and rules are rules, but you have to look at the circumstances, that is there was an accident which the team had no control over. Could they have planned to leave super early and still get there on time? Yes. However they were also never late so there is no reason to have that much time buffer in getting to the studio. They were "only" half an hour late, a fcking swarm host game will easily drag on for additional hours, I know it's not comparing the same thing, just saying from a time perspective.
I couldn't help but wonder if that was KT, would they also get DQed? I think not since SK telecom being a big sponsor of the teams...
lets be honest guys, Kespa has always had extremely unconventional rulings and questionable DQs (PPP????) so this shouldn't be even remotely surprising.
still sucks as always though. Kespa super strict org.
On February 10 2015 09:13 Phredxor wrote: Did startale say how late it was going to make them? If it was a few hours then I think it's fair enough. That would just be unfair on JAGW.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
I've shown up late for 2 finals before. One just gave me the remainder (1.5 hr / 3 hr) and the other let me work till I finished. I think a professor is allowed to do as they please if you're late, however.
And obviously rules are there to be followed, but they are only worth having if used with common sense. Kespa clearlu expects teams to prepare for the worst (like get there 3 hours earlier than needed to be ready no matter what)
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
On February 10 2015 06:40 Gojira621 wrote: In America, and I'm assuming other places as well, if a big sporting event, even a televised one, is unable to happen due to weather or accidents or whatever, its simply rescheduled to whenever is available. Really disappointing kespa didn't want to do this and instead unfairly give a team a loss for something they had no control over. Makes me not even want to watch proleague for awhile. Bad timing considering how lacking the tourney scene is right now, the korean betting scandals, etc.
100% Agreed
It's one thing if weather etc is so bad that NOBODY can participate. (for the whole "exam thing", 3/4 of the class including the teacher are 30 min late.) However, when the weather / traffic doesn't prevent anyone else from being on time and ready then it's the "responsibility" (people don't seem to like the word 'fault') of the late party.
As a spectator I do wish this were not the case but I do respect KeSPA for sticking to their rules.
On February 10 2015 03:59 ricecake wrote: Rescheduling isn't a reasonable option because of how tightly packed everything is. Not only will it be pretty difficult to find a good time with all the other tournaments going on, that completely throws CJ and SKT T1 under the bus.
Delaying is the only potential solution (1 map / 30 mins or something) but that still isn't very fair for Jin Air and is hard on the fans. Since there was no knowledge on when ST would show up, people could be sitting around forever, and would probably mentally tax JAG enough to affect their match tonight. At some point you just have to call it.
This doesn't happen in "real" sports because the team buses get police escorts to clear the roads for them.
Not sure what country you're referring too, but in America this does not happen. Pretty much all professional basketball, football, and baseball teams will have a charter bus take them to and from the airport/hotel to the sports arena. With typically one police car/motorcycle in front and behind their vehicle. Pretty much the most minimal 'police escort' possible. The roads are most assuredly not cleared for them. The only person in America who gets the full VIP treatment is the POTUS. And possibly the VPOTUS depending on the situation. When they roll out the roads are cleared and they have a 15-20 vehicle convey.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Glad we have more details and the shitstorm can end now. Thanks for the info Chuddinater!
So it seems ST would be way too late and a map loss every 30min would end up in a 4-0 anyways... I hope this helps people feel less robbed.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Thanks for the infos! I think that it makes a lot more sense
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
This official KeSPA answer needs to be in the the OP to stop the bashing against KeSPA please.
I know people like to back KeSPA because it has rules, but rules are here for a reason.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Listen, I know you have rules set in place for many different reasons and for many different situations. Whether it's to prevent people from taking advantage of situations, ruining program schedules, ensuring that they fulfill commitments etc.
However, please take into consideration whom it is your organization actually serves and then enlighten me as to how the decision to DQ them, instead of rescheduling, is a service to your consumer?
Note: if you are unaware of who your consumer is, who your organization actually serves, and who your organization relies upon most to keep your organization in business, its ME and everyone like me. We are called fans. We are the people who watch the teams and players you govern.
Another Note: In my opinion, I see that no rules here were intentionally broken. Things happen and you need an appropriate solution for when these things occur. If you are a straight "by the rule" type of organization and you have no free-thinkers / decision-makers to use their head in situations like this, criticism and bad publicity will follow KeSPA forever. You can't just go by the rules word for word until something happens that falls clearly and morally outside the spirit and intent of your rule book; then MAYBE make an amendment to said rule for future issues. Correct the issue when it happens, set a precedent, and then go in and create an amendment to the rule. I know how organizations like yours work and all it takes is someone with a brain and the right job title to make the right decision.
English: On the way to the playoffs, Startale-yoe was on their way to venu, on the free way there was a sudden traffic jam, because of this, the team could not arrive on time for SPL.
稍早的2015 SPL 季後賽ST-yoe vs Jinair一役，如同各位在前一篇新聞所見到的, 因首爾交通事故及大雪導致整個團隊未能於規定時間抵達SPL會場，因而被Kespa 判定棄權。（不能重賽） 這樣的判決對於身為聯隊一員的我們來說沒有什麼好講的，確實是我們的不對。對於這樣的遠距離聯軍閃電狼仍然還有許多需要學習的，管理上的疏失我們會全面性地重新進行檢討。期望各位能繼續支持我們。 四葉
Earlier it was determined for the 2015 SPL playoffs match of ST-yoe vs. Jinair that the team would be disqualified for not showing up by the stipulated time at the venu for SPL (with no chance of a rematch). As far as we are concerned there is nothing good to speak of with this sort of ruling, it really is our own mistake. This way, we can see that this kind of long-distance coalition still has a lot to teach us, and we will try again to comprehensively inspect our own way of doing things. We hope that everyone can continue to support us.
4Leaf.
Personal thoughts: This isn't the only tournament to have strict rules. And it is done in the interests of production. Thousands of U.S. Dollars go in to a single night's broadcast, and they have two matches an evening to prevent everyone (casters, production crew, security guards, and - most of all - the fans) from showing up and wasting their time if one match goes awry. yoe Flash Wolves manager 4Leaf knows and respects this decision.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
In other words, StarTale was never going to get there even if they had delayed.
On February 10 2015 12:03 BreAKerTV wrote: This isn't the only tournament to have strict rules. And it is done in the interests of production. Thousands of U.S. Dollars go in to a single night's broadcast, and they have two matches an evening to prevent everyone (casters, production crew, security guards, and - most of all - the fans) from showing up and wasting their time if one match goes awry. yoe Flash Wolves manager 4Leaf knows and respects this decision.
the entire point of the production is to put on a show for the fans, and the point of rules is to punish people who don't respect the production. getting stuck in traffic is not a show of disrespect and punishing the team isn't going to make them able to control traffic in the future. your statement, while it makes sense from a PR standpoint as someone associated with yoe, makes absolutely no sense and is a kespa bendover
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Listen, I know you have rules set in place for many different reasons and for many different situations. Whether it's to prevent people from taking advantage of situations, ruining program schedules, ensuring that they fulfill commitments etc.
However, please take into consideration whom it is your organization actually serves and then enlighten me as to how the decision to DQ them, instead of rescheduling, is a service to your consumer?
Note: if you are unaware of who your consumer is, who your organization actually serves, and who your organization relies upon most to keep your organization in business, its ME and everyone like me. We are called fans. We are the people who watch the teams and players you govern.
Another Note: In my opinion, I see that no rules here were intentionally broken. Things happen and you need an appropriate solution for when these things occur. If you are a straight "by the rule" type of organization and you have no free-thinkers / decision-makers to use their head in situations like this, criticism and bad publicity will follow KeSPA forever. You can't just go by the rules word for word until something happens that falls clearly and morally outside the spirit and intent of your rule book; then MAYBE make an amendment to said rule for future issues. Correct the issue when it happens, set a precedent, and then go in and create an amendment to the rule. I know how organizations like yours work and all it takes is someone with a brain and the right job title to make the right decision.
Why do people think it's so easy to "just reschedule" ?
Have you ever worked in a broadcast ? I have. There's so many pieces (and money) involved for every broadcast that rescheduling is just impossible.
Also the schedule between NSSL, GSL and SPL would not allow for a reschedule that would be fair for anyone except maybe ST.
Keep in my that this is shown on TV here, they can't move all the programs because one team failed to show up (wheter or not it's their fault is irrelevant, they were not here).
People like to make analogies, I'll make one. There's an accident, you miss your flight, are you gonna get a refund ? Nop. Doesn't matter why you are not here on time, you are not so you're screwed.
So stop hating on KeSPA just because that's what people do.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Listen, I know you have rules set in place for many different reasons and for many different situations. Whether it's to prevent people from taking advantage of situations, ruining program schedules, ensuring that they fulfill commitments etc.
However, please take into consideration whom it is your organization actually serves and then enlighten me as to how the decision to DQ them, instead of rescheduling, is a service to your consumer?
Note: if you are unaware of who your consumer is, who your organization actually serves, and who your organization relies upon most to keep your organization in business, its ME and everyone like me. We are called fans. We are the people who watch the teams and players you govern.
Another Note: In my opinion, I see that no rules here were intentionally broken. Things happen and you need an appropriate solution for when these things occur. If you are a straight "by the rule" type of organization and you have no free-thinkers / decision-makers to use their head in situations like this, criticism and bad publicity will follow KeSPA forever. You can't just go by the rules word for word until something happens that falls clearly and morally outside the spirit and intent of your rule book; then MAYBE make an amendment to said rule for future issues. Correct the issue when it happens, set a precedent, and then go in and create an amendment to the rule. I know how organizations like yours work and all it takes is someone with a brain and the right job title to make the right decision.
Why do people think it's so easy to "just reschedule" ?
Have you ever worked in a broadcast ? I have. There's so many pieces (and money) involved for every broadcast that rescheduling is just impossible.
Also the schedule between NSSL, GSL and SPL would not allow for a reschedule that would be fair for anyone except maybe ST.
Keep in my that this is shown on TV here, they can't move all the programs because one team failed to show up (wheter or not it's their fault is irrelevant, they were not here).
People like to make analogies, I'll make one. There's an accident, you miss your flight, are you gonna get a refund ? Nop. Doesn't matter why you are not here on time, you are not so you're screwed.
So stop hating on KeSPA just because that's what people do.
of course the reason its impossible to rebook is because of how tight Kespa schedules everything. I think this is personally a perfect storm of things. Weird traffic issues+Kespa scheduling thats inflexible. I'm curious if Kespa schedules things differently in the next round to give more leeway if something like this were to happen again.
sports get rescheduled quite a bit in the Us so It's possible. although those are larger and usaually due to safety issues venues being shut down. I can kinda see both sides on this.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
In other words, StarTale was never going to get there even if they had delayed.
I was trying to think what would happen if this were a real sport but I couldn't recall an instance of it happening. They always leave with tonnes of time to spare and do their last practice and warm up at the venue. This DQ sucks but I don't think anyone is to blame.
And this is why i don't watch proleague. Kespa and their stupid rulings. So you stuck on a snowstorm ? Fuck you. Re-scheduling matches is not something uncommon on any sport.
Yeah, after really thinking about it, I am pretty neutral on this. At first I was a little disappointed that strings couldn't be pulled in order to make things as fair as possible to both teams, but I guess the scheduling and production stress would be a lot for them to deal with.
While it sucks that ST-Yoe had to be DQ'd that way, they seem to respect it and the case should be closed there. I strongly believe that they will establish more strict rules on arrival times for teams and a safety net for things like this.
On February 10 2015 16:24 vult wrote: Yeah, after really thinking about it, I am pretty neutral on this. At first I was a little disappointed that strings couldn't be pulled in order to make things as fair as possible to both teams, but I guess the scheduling and production stress would be a lot for them to deal with.
While it sucks that ST-Yoe had to be DQ'd that way, they seem to respect it and the case should be closed there. I strongly believe that they will establish more strict rules on arrival times for teams and a safety net for things like this.
Hopefully. Wouldn't hurt if they'd learn to communicate better either.
As far as I am aware, traditional sports only reschedule matches when the unforeseen circumstances affect both teams. This time Jin Air was in the studio already so doing anything but DQing ST-yoe would be a punishment for Jin Air instead.
For most of those 'hating' on KeSPA it is solely due to their bloody appalling lack of communication over the issue leading to speculation and misconceptions arising.
Frankly the organisation has kept SC2 in some state of health in Korea and has done a lot of good for the scene, but Christ do they not have a single press guy?
With the explaination I'm kind of neutral. I still wonder what would have happened if ST could have made it into the studio by say 8pm. Still sucks they couldn't have shown SOMETHING though, hell put on a replay of last years proleague finals or something, anything other than the 10 minute thing we got.
normally i would describe the general tl user to be level headed, mature, loves games but not to the point where they shut themselves in the basement and hide from the real world. from reading this thread my general idea of a tl user just went to shit. the amount of people saying "kespa being kespa", "fuck the rules", "the rules are stupid" etc etc is just mind blowing. most of you guys need to get your heads out of your asses. the big companies and organisations that do all this dont do it only for the fans. there is money involved and everything is business. if one side doesnt hold up their bargain then shit goes down whether 3rd parties like it or not. i cant believe people are actually suggesting that the rules be bended and matches should just be rescheduled etc etc not sure if blatantly ignorant on how the prep for any of these tournaments work or just blindly hating on an organisation which quite frankly is the only reason why esports got big in korea
Not really, read the thread again. Most posters I saw were frustrated/unsure as to the exact circumstances and the lack of specific information. For example most on either side conceded that if ST-Yoe were set to be say, 30 minutes late then perhaps a set forfeit would have been a better decision, but if they were going to be say, 2 hours late then ofc it makes sense to forfeit the match entirely.
Consistency and rules and regulation is something that the industry needs, I believe most would concede. However, I don't believe it's a big ask to expect a more detailed announcement on the stream at the time, or a quicker press release from KeSPA instead of having to rely on Twitter trawling, here-say and conjecture.
On February 10 2015 19:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:most of you guys need to get your heads out of your asses. the big companies and organisations that do all this dont do it only for the fans. there is money involved and everything is business. if one side doesnt hold up their bargain then shit goes down whether 3rd parties like it or not.
you're creating a false dilemma. calling kespa out for their pathetic blame shifting doesn't imply that we aren't aware they're motivated by money or how business works. of course that's how business works. doesn't make it right. big business exploits and shifts blame every day in the real corporate world, too, and it's still wrong.
how are they blame shifting? they set rules, a team broke it, they enforced it. where is the blame shifting its you guys who are shifting the blame onto kespa when the blame should in fact be going to the team that failed to show up, which is what is actually happening anyway. i would understand the rage if both teams failed to show up and kespa just cancelled the match or something, but 1 team showed up on time and 1 didnt. to ask for reschedules and all that shit is just blatantly unfair to the team that actually did what they were supposed to do correctly. so who is to blame?
On February 11 2015 08:43 evilfatsh1t wrote: how are they blame shifting? they set rules, a team broke it, they enforced it. where is the blame shifting its you guys who are shifting the blame onto kespa when the blame should in fact be going to the team that failed to show up, which is what is actually happening anyway. i would understand the rage if both teams failed to show up and kespa just cancelled the match or something, but 1 team showed up on time and 1 didnt. to ask for reschedules and all that shit is just blatantly unfair to the team that actually did what they were supposed to do correctly. so who is to blame?
Hey now, this is too much logic for the majority of this posters to handle. Let's stick to the theme here, which is to blame everything on KESPA at all costs.
Damn it, that was unfortunate. But offcourse we have to talk about it and shift blame because no one in the right mind says "Well, that's sad. Shit Happens!".
On February 10 2015 18:29 JBright wrote: As far as I am aware, traditional sports only reschedule matches when the unforeseen circumstances affect both teams. This time Jin Air was in the studio already so doing anything but DQing ST-yoe would be a punishment for Jin Air instead.
Five minutes of googling resulted in this:
"During a game on November 21, 2005, against the Nashville Predators, Fischer collapsed on the bench after going into cardiac arrest. After being unconscious for six minutes, Fischer was resuscitated by CPR and by an automated external defibrillator by Lynn LeAnnais, and was taken to Detroit Receiving Hospital. The hockey game was postponed due to Fischer's injury, and was made up on January 23, 2006. This marked the first time in NHL history a game had been postponed due to injury. The makeup game was played for the full 60 minutes, though the Predators were allowed to maintain their 1-0 lead from the original game. Nashville ultimately won by a score of 3-2."
Not only was only one team affected, only one player on that team was affected.
On February 10 2015 19:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:most of you guys need to get your heads out of your asses. the big companies and organisations that do all this dont do it only for the fans. there is money involved and everything is business. if one side doesnt hold up their bargain then shit goes down whether 3rd parties like it or not.
you're creating a false dilemma. calling kespa out for their pathetic blame shifting doesn't imply that we aren't aware they're motivated by money or how business works. of course that's how business works. doesn't make it right. big business exploits and shifts blame every day in the real corporate world, too, and it's still wrong.
"You're creating a false dilemma by pointing out truths, your blame shifting by shifting our opinionated and biased blames to facts of life". Pretty ironic statement when paraphrased.
On February 10 2015 18:29 JBright wrote: As far as I am aware, traditional sports only reschedule matches when the unforeseen circumstances affect both teams. This time Jin Air was in the studio already so doing anything but DQing ST-yoe would be a punishment for Jin Air instead.
Five minutes of googling resulted in this:
"During a game on November 21, 2005, against the Nashville Predators, Fischer collapsed on the bench after going into cardiac arrest. After being unconscious for six minutes, Fischer was resuscitated by CPR and by an automated external defibrillator by Lynn LeAnnais, and was taken to Detroit Receiving Hospital. The hockey game was postponed due to Fischer's injury, and was made up on January 23, 2006. This marked the first time in NHL history a game had been postponed due to injury. The makeup game was played for the full 60 minutes, though the Predators were allowed to maintain their 1-0 lead from the original game. Nashville ultimately won by a score of 3-2."
Not only was only one team affected, only one player on that team was affected.
Good thing you spent a whole 5 minutes googling an example that holds no worth on this platform. You're talking about a player who could die if not taken from THE BENCH to the hospital IMMEDIATELY. This actually affects both teams, as after witnessing such a weird and horrifying event, both team'a players would be distracted, as well as the crowd, from putting forth a good game.
EPT
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