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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote: You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves? The units are going to bunch up automatically, which indirectly buffs the shit out of the lurker. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:27 Ramiz1989 wrote: Nah, Swarm Hosts are changed to harassment/mid game push unit, you won't see any more turtling with them with how they are changed. During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts. Yeah. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote: You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves? Yes, when they come in range to attack that unit, however Lurkers have 8-9 range, which means they will shoot at least once before units start to shoot at them and form an arc. | ||
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote: You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves? I'm not sure, but I think a-moving into a group of lurkers sounds very inefficient. Sure, you'll get an arc if you have enough units, but that can't be worth it. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:31 Teoita wrote: During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts. We didn't really know how to use this unit, point is that now we have a thousand examples of what Swarm Hosts are and how to use them correctly. However, they are not burrowed anymore, you have to use Locusts manually, and Locusts have much much longer cooldown. Yes, people might still make them, but you won't be seeing only Swarm Hosts like today because they just won't work, there will be too much time between the Locusts waves where opponent can deal a lot of damage, at least that is my impression. That is the reason why they are giving them flying locust upgrade, to change the unit role. | ||
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Miragee
8633 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:31 Ramiz1989 wrote: Yes, when they come in range to attack that unit, however Lurkers have 8-9 range, which means they will shoot at least once before units start to shoot at them and form an arc. Maybe you are right. Upping the lurker range compared to bw might have solved that problem. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:35 Ramiz1989 wrote: We didn't really know how to use this unit, point is that now we have a thousand examples of what Swarm Hosts are and how to use them correctly. However, they are not burrowed anymore, you have to use Locusts manually, and Locusts have much much longer cooldown. Yes, people might still make them, but you won't be seeing only Swarm Hosts like today because they just won't work, there will be too much time between the Locusts waves where opponent can deal a lot of damage, at least that is my impression. That is the reason why they are giving them flying locust upgrade, to change the unit role. If they want a flying harassment unit, they have mutas. They even have corruptors to supplement the flying harass. For some reason, I'm having trouble understanding how the swarm host is even a horrible idea. It's worse than horrible, in my eyes. You can play an hour long game versus swarm host where not even 5 die. 8 died in that San vs Life game... That's with swarm hosts having to burrow. Now they can attack and run away, instantly, without having to burrow? Come on. You want to talk about skilless and cowardly. This unit epitomizes what this game should not be. To think a unit that you can never attack can do this kinda damage is just laughable. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:42 playa wrote: If they want a flying harassment unit, they have mutas. They even have corruptors to supplement the flying harass. For some reason, I'm having trouble understanding how the swarm host is even a horrible idea. It's worse than horrible, in my eyes. You can play an hour long game versus swarm host where not even 5 died. 8 died in that San vs Life game... That's with swarm hosts having to burrow. Now they can attack and run away, instantly, without having to burrow? Come on. You want to talk about skilless and cowardly. This unit epitomizes what this game should not be. To think a unit that you can never attack can do this kinda damage i just laughable. You won't have those kind of games anymore, that is my point... The reason why you could turtle as Zerg in HotS is because you couldn't push against Swarm Hosts. When one wave of Locusts dies, another one spawns and that has changed in LotV. Now if someone tries to turtle with them, sure, they will send a wave of Locusts that you will kill/avoid and then in next like, 20 seconds, there won't be anything, you will kill bunch of his stuff if he only has Swarm Hosts... he will be completely helpless and that is the reason I think we won't be seeing long Swarm Host games. Also, there is a very big difference between Mutas and flying Locusts. Mutas are air units, flying Locusts fly only for a period of time before they attack, and then they land to attack the unit and also can't attack air. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:52 Fus wrote: Just have one quick input on the swarm host, i think summon locusts should be manual and i think the duration should increase/decrease depending on if the swarmhosts are burrowed or not It is manual now(you can't autocast it anymore), and Swarm Hosts don't burrow anymore, they are using spawn locusts while unburrowed. The duration of Locusts is 25 seconds and cooldown is 45 seconds(I think) judging by the tweets of players that played LotV. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
- Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in - Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio - Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus. - Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already? - Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all. Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore. | ||
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ZiNKO
23 Posts
 a lot better than what we have now that is for sure.... | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote: These Zerg changes are soooo crap: - Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in - Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio - Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus. - Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already? - Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all. Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore. I think that you are way too much pessimistic about it. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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YuiHirasawa
Japan220 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:06 FFW_Rude wrote: Is that normal that... i have no bad things to say about everything i saw ? Yes, you have. Cyclones are horrible.  | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote: These Zerg changes are soooo crap: - Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in - Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio - Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus. - Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already? - Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all. Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore. You use skill now to kill siege units, instead of even longer range siege units. Remember that P/T can't turtle on 2-3 bases anymore with the eco changes. The game is finally going in the right direction. Love it! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote: - Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio - Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus. Gets anti-slow/mech unit, unhappy it's not anti-bio. Gets anti-bio unit, unhappy it's not anti-slow/mech. Seems legit. Also, pretty sure that Ravagers are meant to do shit against turtling players. Whether they can do that effectively now is anyone's guess, but that's what alpha and beta are for... | ||
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