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Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 61

Forum Index > SC2 General
2977 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 59 60 61 62 63 149 Next
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 08 2014 10:30 GMT
#1201
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 18:58 Qikz wrote:
Nice. But I have the feeling that they won't be as good because of the way the AI works in SC2. Forming arcs around them renders them useless. Seems like Blizzard rather intents them for sieges...


You realise forming arcs around lurkers was always the counter right?


You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves?

The units are going to bunch up automatically, which indirectly buffs the shit out of the lurker.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 10:33:28
November 08 2014 10:31 GMT
#1202
On November 08 2014 19:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 19:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
So after watching the Life vs San game, I just imagined the whole thing with flying locusts

Never again

Nah, Swarm Hosts are changed to harassment/mid game push unit, you won't see any more turtling with them with how they are changed.


During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts. Yeah.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 10:31 GMT
#1203
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 18:58 Qikz wrote:
Nice. But I have the feeling that they won't be as good because of the way the AI works in SC2. Forming arcs around them renders them useless. Seems like Blizzard rather intents them for sieges...


You realise forming arcs around lurkers was always the counter right?


You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves?

Yes, when they come in range to attack that unit, however Lurkers have 8-9 range, which means they will shoot at least once before units start to shoot at them and form an arc.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
November 08 2014 10:33 GMT
#1204
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 18:58 Qikz wrote:
Nice. But I have the feeling that they won't be as good because of the way the AI works in SC2. Forming arcs around them renders them useless. Seems like Blizzard rather intents them for sieges...


You realise forming arcs around lurkers was always the counter right?


You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves?

I'm not sure, but I think a-moving into a group of lurkers sounds very inefficient. Sure, you'll get an arc if you have enough units, but that can't be worth it.
Flash | Mvp
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 10:35 GMT
#1205
On November 08 2014 19:31 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 19:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
So after watching the Life vs San game, I just imagined the whole thing with flying locusts

Never again

Nah, Swarm Hosts are changed to harassment/mid game push unit, you won't see any more turtling with them with how they are changed.


During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts.

We didn't really know how to use this unit, point is that now we have a thousand examples of what Swarm Hosts are and how to use them correctly.

However, they are not burrowed anymore, you have to use Locusts manually, and Locusts have much much longer cooldown. Yes, people might still make them, but you won't be seeing only Swarm Hosts like today because they just won't work, there will be too much time between the Locusts waves where opponent can deal a lot of damage, at least that is my impression. That is the reason why they are giving them flying locust upgrade, to change the unit role.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8493 Posts
November 08 2014 10:41 GMT
#1206
On November 08 2014 19:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 19:29 Miragee wrote:
On November 08 2014 18:58 Qikz wrote:
Nice. But I have the feeling that they won't be as good because of the way the AI works in SC2. Forming arcs around them renders them useless. Seems like Blizzard rather intents them for sieges...


You realise forming arcs around lurkers was always the counter right?


You realise that forming arcs around lurkers in bw had to be done manually while in sc2 units do this almost entirely by themselves?

Yes, when they come in range to attack that unit, however Lurkers have 8-9 range, which means they will shoot at least once before units start to shoot at them and form an arc.


Maybe you are right. Upping the lurker range compared to bw might have solved that problem.
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 10:43:56
November 08 2014 10:42 GMT
#1207
On November 08 2014 19:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 19:31 Teoita wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
So after watching the Life vs San game, I just imagined the whole thing with flying locusts

Never again

Nah, Swarm Hosts are changed to harassment/mid game push unit, you won't see any more turtling with them with how they are changed.


During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts.

We didn't really know how to use this unit, point is that now we have a thousand examples of what Swarm Hosts are and how to use them correctly.

However, they are not burrowed anymore, you have to use Locusts manually, and Locusts have much much longer cooldown. Yes, people might still make them, but you won't be seeing only Swarm Hosts like today because they just won't work, there will be too much time between the Locusts waves where opponent can deal a lot of damage, at least that is my impression. That is the reason why they are giving them flying locust upgrade, to change the unit role.


If they want a flying harassment unit, they have mutas. They even have corruptors to supplement the flying harass. For some reason, I'm having trouble understanding how the swarm host is even a horrible idea. It's worse than horrible, in my eyes. You can play an hour long game versus swarm host where not even 5 die. 8 died in that San vs Life game... That's with swarm hosts having to burrow. Now they can attack and run away, instantly, without having to burrow?

Come on. You want to talk about skilless and cowardly. This unit epitomizes what this game should not be. To think a unit that you can never attack can do this kinda damage is just laughable.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 10:49 GMT
#1208
On November 08 2014 19:42 playa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 19:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:31 Teoita wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On November 08 2014 19:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
So after watching the Life vs San game, I just imagined the whole thing with flying locusts

Never again

Nah, Swarm Hosts are changed to harassment/mid game push unit, you won't see any more turtling with them with how they are changed.


During beta and very early hots we all thought swarm hosts were going to be a midgame unit that couldn't deal with high colossus or tank counts.

We didn't really know how to use this unit, point is that now we have a thousand examples of what Swarm Hosts are and how to use them correctly.

However, they are not burrowed anymore, you have to use Locusts manually, and Locusts have much much longer cooldown. Yes, people might still make them, but you won't be seeing only Swarm Hosts like today because they just won't work, there will be too much time between the Locusts waves where opponent can deal a lot of damage, at least that is my impression. That is the reason why they are giving them flying locust upgrade, to change the unit role.


If they want a flying harassment unit, they have mutas. They even have corruptors to supplement the flying harass. For some reason, I'm having trouble understanding how the swarm host is even a horrible idea. It's worse than horrible, in my eyes. You can play an hour long game versus swarm host where not even 5 died. 8 died in that San vs Life game... That's with swarm hosts having to burrow. Now they can attack and run away, instantly, without having to burrow?

Come on. You want to talk about skilless and cowardly. This unit epitomizes what this game should not be. To think a unit that you can never attack can do this kinda damage i just laughable.

You won't have those kind of games anymore, that is my point... The reason why you could turtle as Zerg in HotS is because you couldn't push against Swarm Hosts. When one wave of Locusts dies, another one spawns and that has changed in LotV. Now if someone tries to turtle with them, sure, they will send a wave of Locusts that you will kill/avoid and then in next like, 20 seconds, there won't be anything, you will kill bunch of his stuff if he only has Swarm Hosts... he will be completely helpless and that is the reason I think we won't be seeing long Swarm Host games.

Also, there is a very big difference between Mutas and flying Locusts. Mutas are air units, flying Locusts fly only for a period of time before they attack, and then they land to attack the unit and also can't attack air.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Fus
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1112 Posts
November 08 2014 10:52 GMT
#1209
Just have one quick input on the swarm host, i think summon locusts should be manual and i think the duration should increase/decrease depending on if the swarmhosts are burrowed or not
NaNiwa | Innovation | Flash | DeMuslim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Killmouse
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria5700 Posts
November 08 2014 10:53 GMT
#1210
the archon mode gonna have ladder+ ranked system? pretty cool
yo
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 10:54 GMT
#1211
On November 08 2014 19:52 Fus wrote:
Just have one quick input on the swarm host, i think summon locusts should be manual and i think the duration should increase/decrease depending on if the swarmhosts are burrowed or not

It is manual now(you can't autocast it anymore), and Swarm Hosts don't burrow anymore, they are using spawn locusts while unburrowed. The duration of Locusts is 25 seconds and cooldown is 45 seconds(I think) judging by the tweets of players that played LotV.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 08 2014 10:56 GMT
#1212
These Zerg changes are soooo crap:
- Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in
- Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio
- Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus.
- Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already?
- Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all.

Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore.
ZiNKO
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
23 Posts
November 08 2014 10:58 GMT
#1213
I think it looks good, not a big fan of the Disruptor but other than that i think that it looks good a lot better than what we have now that is for sure....
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 11:00 GMT
#1214
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote:
These Zerg changes are soooo crap:
- Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in
- Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio
- Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus.
- Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already?
- Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all.

Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore.

I think that you are way too much pessimistic about it.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
November 08 2014 11:02 GMT
#1215
My life for aiur!
YuiHirasawa
Profile Joined August 2012
Japan220 Posts
November 08 2014 11:02 GMT
#1216
Stop mean comments about Dustin. Man looked ill and I hope his life will get better with HOTS
Fun things are fun
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
November 08 2014 11:06 GMT
#1217
Is that normal that... i have no bad things to say about everything i saw ?
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
November 08 2014 11:09 GMT
#1218
On November 08 2014 20:06 FFW_Rude wrote:
Is that normal that... i have no bad things to say about everything i saw ?

Yes, you have. Cyclones are horrible.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
November 08 2014 11:10 GMT
#1219
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote:
These Zerg changes are soooo crap:
- Nyuds: yeah, finally they cannot be stopped anymore. More stupid bullshit midgame roach allins coming in
- Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio
- Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus.
- Corruptor: yeah, unit stays bullshit boring. But now you can kill immobile unprotected stuff with it? Just that mutas are much better at that already?
- Swarm Host: More free units. Less range! Finally all siege options have been nerfed into crapness. Let the P/T deathballing begin. Nothing to fear besides supernydusses, so you better bring out even more turrets to really prevent your opponent from getting any vision at all.

Well, at least Protoss is even more fucked and probably will never acquire a 3rd base anymore.

You use skill now to kill siege units, instead of even longer range siege units. Remember that P/T can't turtle on 2-3 bases anymore with the eco changes.

The game is finally going in the right direction. Love it!
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
November 08 2014 11:10 GMT
#1220
On November 08 2014 19:56 Big J wrote:
- Ravager: wohoo, another midrange unit that cannot do shit against a turtling player nor be used against mobile units ala bio
- Lurker: wohoo, a 6range immobile splash unit in the midgame. Finally another tool that gets completely fucked by marauders, immortals, colossi; has some 9range upgrade in the lategame so you can take out canons one by one and after 10mins of burrowing and reburrowing because you can only barely outrange that stuff you may be allowed to attack a nexus.


Gets anti-slow/mech unit, unhappy it's not anti-bio.

Gets anti-bio unit, unhappy it's not anti-slow/mech.

Seems legit.

Also, pretty sure that Ravagers are meant to do shit against turtling players. Whether they can do that effectively now is anyone's guess, but that's what alpha and beta are for...
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
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