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Its all broken atm XD
cyclones are just OP and will be nerfed to... something. Stardust and Jjakji just tried the Ravager and the Lurker, that happens to suck vs tank medivac and cyclones atm (guess the cyclone should have smaller range? why is it countering anything with less range and that is slower than a goddamn stalker XD). Then again, its OP atm. Zerg really needs a spire when medivacs are out now O_O
edit: yeah but cyclone hellion looks very natural, im just guessing (well its more than just a guess), but cyclones should be good agaist melee or slow moving units right? right now slow is slower than a stalker and even ranged units with a decent range are bad 
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On November 08 2014 21:45 Superbanana wrote:
Its all broken atm XD
cyclones are just OP and will be nerfed to... something. Stardust and Jjakji just tried the Ravager and the Lurker, that happens to suck vs tank medivac and cyclones. Then again, its OP atm. Zerg really needs a spire when medivacs are out now O_O
On paper, speedlings should shit on cyclones. We'll have to see how cyclone/hellion plays before it can really be judged.
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On November 08 2014 20:48 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 20:26 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 08 2014 20:21 Tyrhanius wrote:On November 08 2014 20:17 -Archangel- wrote:Well any real zerg would have made mass mutalisks ve terran with no real antiair  The Stardust was just trying on new units which work worse if made alone vs new units of terran. I am sure in real matches, it is going to work differently. Any real Terran have win the game when they drop the two siege tank, even the hero attack at first look game ending if follow by a push after. I dunno what you want to say, but if I have to guess I would say its a balancewhine. It's beyond of imbalance, it's ridiculous. It's looks like a moba, not a RTS. How you can even make this change and seriously think the result won't as imbalance ? Can you really think if you can drop siege tank, player won't abuse this to crush their opponent early like they have done during the hellbat drop time ? Can you really think that it's a good strategic game when a race can abuse of this, while the other is clueless ? Even it's beta, it's so uninspired, so unprofessional... Looks like they want to kill SC2 in order to get more casual player in the game. The description of the unit reminds me a League of Legend spotlight... The beta will be super long, and the result probably as shaky as when they remove the warhound, and follow again by periods of imbalance where the winnerr will be more the player who plays the OP race at the good moment, rather than the more clever or the best.
I agree on some points here. A lot of things look more like MOBA and seem to be there to appeal at this community (grapples, traps, etc). They should not forget they're making a RTS game where positioning should matter. But don't worry, even the closed beta won't look like what we saw yesterday at all.
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I think cyclones would be ok if it doesn't shoot up.
Remember HotS's locusts that can shoot air units?
Lol, i was like...why would anyone build anything else...ever?
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Thanks for linking that 2v2 match.
The gameplay looked fun actually.
Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling.
So it seems it might be:
cyclone+herc vs speedling+roach - Might be micro involved tbh. Seems like quite a fun fight.
The zerg player(s) didnt tech lair until very late. And no speed ling. Ofcourse cyclone owned them. The zerg(s) was awful.
I dig the 12worker start alot. Finally the gameplay can start alot sooner.
Looked like cyclone works a bit like goliath from broodwar actually.
I kinda like that mech finally has a unit which works like goliath. The thor has always been quite dull.
Seems that the approach they have is sort of like this:
The early units you make are very relevant to your plan. The early units you make are very relevant with how you defend, attack.
The combo feels more important overall now. More synergy with each other and works good together.
I actually felt positive while watching that 2v2 video. Hope they really nail it wiht lotv.
The economy feels abit unspiring overall tho, didnt looked like it changed much.
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When units are frozen via the oracle's stasis ward, are they temporarily invulnerable and frozen, or just frozen?
Because if they can still be attacked, I'm thinking that stasis ward in a mineral line + disruptor drop could be pretty cool
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On November 08 2014 21:25 Yrr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 15:08 Zenbrez wrote:
So did they not reduce saturation to 12? It's still 16, with 24 max workers I think they just didnt want to show new maps.
So would that be 6 mineral patches instead of 8? Seems excessive, it would be 6x1000 = 6000 minerals per base while now it is 8x1500 = 12000. Granted there are few games where all the bases are mined out right now, but with half the minerals on the map it could happen very very often, creating awkward draw scenarios.
When I heard about reducing saturation I thought that workers would take more timing to mine minerals, therefore you only need 2 workers per mineral patch instead of 3.
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On November 08 2014 22:31 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 21:25 Yrr wrote:On November 08 2014 15:08 Zenbrez wrote:
So did they not reduce saturation to 12? It's still 16, with 24 max workers I think they just didnt want to show new maps. So would that be 6 mineral patches instead of 8? Seems excessive, it would be 6x1000 = 6000 minerals per base while now it is 8x1500 = 12000. Granted there are few games where all the bases are mined out right now, but with half the minerals on the map it could happen very very often, creating awkward draw scenarios. When I heard about reducing saturation I thought that workers would take more timing to mine minerals, therefore you only need 2 workers per mineral patch instead of 3.
There have to be more bases on the maps to balance the reduced amount of minerals per base out. Generally speaking I expect the maps to look completely different in LotV.
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On November 08 2014 22:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:When units are frozen via the oracle's stasis ward, are they temporarily invulnerable and frozen, or just frozen? Because if they can still be attacked, I'm thinking that stasis ward in a mineral line + disruptor drop could be pretty cool
Immune to damage
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VODs anywhere? I'm only finding game 1 of exhibition matches. 
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I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame.
Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling.
Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely.
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perfect time to switch to terran
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On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Show nested quote +Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely.
Yeah I agree that Hellion + Cyclone looks to be pretty insane... if the Cyclone became slower, had shorter range, or shot less frequently, then that should help a bit.
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Why not redesign or remove the hellion. Perhaps remove the hellbat also.
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On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Show nested quote +Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely.
The Cyclone as is won't make it to the beta probably. But I don't think the unit like broken like the warhound was. You can make it slower, or the lockon slower/last not as long, or it's lockon being able to somehow be interupted. There's lots of variables to play around with this unit.
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On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Show nested quote +Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely.
People keep saying Hellion + Cyclone, but I don't see it. Speedlings can and do beat Hellions in open terrain. Terran adds Cyclones and suddenly the Hellions win every engagement?
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On November 08 2014 23:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote:
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. Yeah I agree that Hellion + Cyclone looks to be pretty insane... if the Cyclone became slower, had shorter range, or shot less frequently, then that should help a bit.
Yeh, so here is still my issue with Blizzard. Coming to the conclusion that Cyclone has too high range combined with too fast movement speed so it creates a bad interaction isn't very difficult. It would take 2 minutes in the unit tester to see that. These guys have like 8+ years of game development experience with Starcraft, so you would think they knew the basic check-list on what to test.
So why on earth hasn't anyone at Blizzard tweaked those numbers before they released it into alpha?
To me this just indicates that they are making the same errors as they have done previously by not focussing enough on making the various unit interactions fun.
Also, @ the Corrupter. In the video Blizzard had a much higher damage value of the Corrupter's damage in order to make it a bit more exciting. They probably knew that a Corrupter just tickling at a building would be pretty boring, so they couldn't show the actual Corrupter in the video.. That's a bit embarrasing, and it's clear that Blizzard still doens't know what to do with it.
@ Swarm Host. It seemed that Blizzard thinks this is all about defense vs offense - That the Swarm Host is boring becasue it's a defensive unit in HOTS. That's, however, not the main issue. Instead, it's boring becasue it doesn't reward player vs player engagements. With the new SHit's now posssible for the zerg player - once every 60th second - to kill stuff with free units without any countermicro potential from the enemy. I expect this new Swarm Host to stay for 2 months in beta (or so) before everyone realizes that it's not very fun.
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Love how people are complaining about balance in an alpha...
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On November 08 2014 23:18 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 23:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote:
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable.
Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Speedroach, speedling->cyclone?
Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. Yeah I agree that Hellion + Cyclone looks to be pretty insane... if the Cyclone became slower, had shorter range, or shot less frequently, then that should help a bit. Yeh, so here is still my issue with Blizzard. Coming to the conclusion that Cyclone has too high range combined with too fast movement speed so it creates a bad interaction isn't very difficult. It would take 2 minutes in the unit tester to see that. These guys have like 8+ years of game development experience with Starcraft, so you would think they knew the basic check-list on what to test. So why on earth hasn't anyone at Blizzard tweaked those numbers before they released it into alpha? To me this just indicates that they are making the same errors as they have done previously by not focussing enough on making the various unit interactions fun.
As far as I remember, these sort of teaser releases are just to show potential extremes and build hype more than anything else, and they care very little about realistic balance this early. Remember the shredder? 
They have plenty of time to balance/ buff/ nerf/ remove things. There's no doubt in my mind that the cyclone will be modified.
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EPT
