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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Many fans speculate that the very careful wording of this tweet suggests that the matches will be played out on an alpha version of Legacy of the Void. While Blizzard have not confirmed anything, it is highly suspected that details of the upcoming expansion will be announced this weekend at Blizzcon. 
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Stijn
Netherlands363 Posts
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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ZergX
France436 Posts
That second match, Zest & Jeadong vs Soo & Polt? Gives me chillss!!! Sounds awesome! First match too ofc! Really looking forward to it! Sounds like lotv btw!... x) Hype! | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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WaspVenoM
Canada10 Posts
hype! hype! hype! | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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iCo
United States8 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Twine
France246 Posts
LOTV Hype | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:23 Twine wrote: They didn't announce a 2v2 tournament until today, did they ? Why would they switch WCS format the day before the RO8 are played ? :D LOTV Hype This has always been on the schedule as 'StarCraft Exhibition' they just now revealed what it is. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:23 Deathstar wrote: MBC HERO COMBO WILL TAKE EVERYONE OUT Truth. | ||
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if LotV fails im going back to BW. | ||
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TigerEmerald
2 Posts
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Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:33 Jer99 wrote: TZ easily takes this They would in HotS. But in LotV PZ will be the best so Team Zest will win. | ||
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ETisME
12391 Posts
So hyped for this | ||
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Biedrik
United States94 Posts
ZeDong PoO HyuMC Starji No one will be able to defeat ZeDong. | ||
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:33 Jer99 wrote: TZ easily takes this MC knows that. I'd expect him to play terran normally. But... if its LotV he'll want to try his race's new toys so he might stick to Protoss this time. | ||
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:39 Biedrik wrote: I suggest the following team names: ZeDong PoO HyuMC Starji No one will be able to defeat ZeDong. I like it, rooting for ZeDong to win. | ||
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Biedrik
United States94 Posts
Perhapts team PoO will be number 2 huehuehuehue. | ||
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mptj
United States485 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
 . LOTV! | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 07 2014 09:54 starslayer wrote: as cool as it would be to see LOTV stuff idk about 2v2s just seems odd to me idk will be fun even if its not lotv. but 2v2s to intro a new expo just seems weird to me, but atleast it will be LOTV right so its good for me. its way too early in lotv development to ascertain anything about 1v1 competitive strategies for reasons people have already posted, 1v1 or 2v2 honestly doesn't matter as if it is indeed a LOTV exhibition it will most likely be about designs and features more so than "check out this unit and how it will affect this 1v1 matchup!" | ||
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
Poll: Your pick to win the doubles show tourney? MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) (11) StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) (2) Zest & Jaedong (30) soO & Polt (29) Not sure/Just want good matches (5) 77 total votes Your vote: Your pick to win the doubles show tourney? (Vote): MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) Poll: Favorite first-round doubles showmatch? MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) vs. StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) (6) Zest & Jaedong vs. soO & Polt (46) 52 total votes Your vote: Favorite first-round doubles showmatch? (Vote): MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) vs. StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) Poll: How much do you want these matches on LotV? Extremely (49) Quite a bit (5) Slightly (3) Not much (1) 58 total votes Your vote: How much do you want these matches on LotV? (Vote): Extremely Edit: On November 07 2014 10:02 BraveProbe wrote: These matches are like SC2 fanfic. Should we ask for another fan fiction contest featuring one or more of these teams? I'd be interested to see what happens! | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
oh yeah and then they announce LotV won't have a 1v1 anymore, because team games! | ||
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Forthandback
United States2 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
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Alex1Sun
494 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 07 2014 10:25 Dodgin wrote: How ridiculous would it be if Blizzard announces that LOTV is balanced for 2v2, 1v1 has been removed and all competitions are switching to 2v2 format? You know how much work that'd be? were talking about the same company that took over 6 months to fix a simple score screen bug. | ||
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Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
On November 07 2014 10:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: You know how much work that'd be? were talking about the same company that took over 6 months to yep | ||
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negativedge
4279 Posts
On November 07 2014 10:25 Dodgin wrote: How ridiculous would it be if Blizzard announces that LOTV is balanced for 2v2, 1v1 has been removed and all competitions are switching to 2v2 format? the return of zergbong | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 07 2014 10:41 BisuDagger wrote: Those teams are pretty balanced for 2v2. Sick! It's 2v2 for either HotS or LotV so I feel like that can't possibly be a justifiable statement you just made | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
bit different game, and with shared income taxation, teleportation scrolls etc would require a bit of tweaking to make SC2 2v2 more balanced (right now its not quite) | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
2v2 2nd vs 2nd Kong vs kong | ||
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Split.
Switzerland234 Posts
On November 07 2014 10:25 Dodgin wrote: How ridiculous would it be if Blizzard announces that LOTV is balanced for 2v2, 1v1 has been removed and all competitions are switching to 2v2 format? I thought exactly the same. Of course that'll happen the day they implement Lan, but that would fit the current trend of team games and maybe that's how they will save sc2. Just imagine, battle.net will be less lonely, nestea wins the first 2v2 GSL alone and the balance of the universe is restored | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 07 2014 11:21 eviltomahawk wrote: Jaedong vs soO 2v2 2nd vs 2nd Kong vs kong Polt and Zest need to eliminate each other so that this can happen | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 07 2014 12:40 Lunareste wrote: Zest/Jaedong combo gonna get the girl's panties wet Just girls? and does it have to be panties? | ||
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jacky9185
Taiwan27 Posts
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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xxjcdentonxx
Canada163 Posts
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Talaris
Switzerland753 Posts
RoachKing + BlinkStalkerKing MC or Jaedong + Zest On November 07 2014 12:40 Lunareste wrote: Zest/Jaedong combo gonna get the girl's panties wet | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On November 07 2014 12:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Just girls? and does it have to be panties? omg lol lewd | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
too lewd? >_< | ||
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Beakyboo
United States485 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 07 2014 14:09 Noonius wrote: 10 am pst? what's that is euro time? somewhere around 8pm I think? | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 07 2014 11:22 Split. wrote: I thought exactly the same. Of course that'll happen the day they implement Lan, but that would fit the current trend of team games and maybe that's how they will save sc2. Just imagine, battle.net will be less lonely, nestea wins the first 2v2 GSL alone and the balance of the universe is restored im not sure how 2v2 would make battle net less lonely, that seems to bank on an assumption that more people would be interested in 2v2 starcraft than just 1v1... plus for matchmaking 2v2 you need to find twice the players which takes twice the time im all for expanded 2v2 and trying fun new things with the game but i think its myopic to assume that it would automatically be revitalizing... sc has a 1v1 community and not everyone would buy into competitive 2v2 | ||
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AKAvg
Brazil298 Posts
Good to have team games or other silly things once in a while. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
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Keeemy
Finland7855 Posts
But oh god it would be absolutely sick if they did play LOTV. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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ChriS-X
Malaysia1374 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
also i really hope they have a better obs ui for 2v2 | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
It sounds really awesome. It's virtually certain that LotV will be officially detailed at Blizzcon, so it would definitely be interesting if these matches are on LotV. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 07 2014 16:39 y0su wrote: i just hope players have some prep time (and take it seriously). also i really hope they have a better obs ui for 2v2 If it's LOTV, you know they are gona mass the new units :d | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
If they could find a way to have units mods and maps that create more synergy and multiplayer strategy to make team games both fun for casuals and balanced for pros, Blizzard will win back a lot of its player base. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On November 07 2014 17:18 Gwavajuice wrote: Actually if Blizzard is smart, they're gonna make 2v2 (and team games in general) a huge feature in LotV. Most casual players don't like playing competitive and stressful 1v1 and until now random team games have been kind of awful, at best being 1+1 vs 1+1 instead of a true 2v2. For instance as it is now, team monobattle are funnier and more entertaining than normal team games. If they could find a way to have units mods and maps that create more synergy and multiplayer strategy to make team games both fun for casuals and balanced for pros, Blizzard will win back a lot of its player base. They could start by improving the map pool. There was a cool Hunters-like map that placed high in a Teamliquid map contest, but it didn't make it into any map pools. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
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Cheeseling
Ukraine132 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On November 07 2014 17:38 Cheeseling wrote: WoW soO Was given a chance to take the second place yet again! Hooray! 2nd place in 2v2 showmatches | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
 oh, well, still better than nothing I guess. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
Zest/Jaedong is sick, but I think Polt/soO is even sicker damn it! | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On November 07 2014 17:32 eviltomahawk wrote: They could start by improving the map pool. There was a cool Hunters-like map that placed high in a Teamliquid map contest, but it didn't make it into any map pools. A lot could be done on mapmaking actually, ofc on the design, but more importantly on mechanics,winning conditions and stuff. Like you win if you can hold some particular spots on the map while being able to defend your bases... Force the player to have different roles, enforce team strategy and so on... Anything better than just "run into each other and see who is still alive when dust settles down" would be welcome... | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On November 07 2014 19:05 Gwavajuice wrote: A lot could be done on mapmaking actually, ofc on the design, but more importantly on mechanics,winning conditions and stuff. Like you win if you can hold some particular spots on the map while being able to defend your bases... Force the player to have different roles, enforce team strategy and so on... Anything better than just "run into each other and see who is still alive when dust settles down" would be welcome... when it comes to maps, we've explored as much as a snowcone on the tip of an iceberg. | ||
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shin ken
Germany612 Posts
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
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Azurues
Malaysia5612 Posts
if it is not, that will be surprising. Nothing else they can announce unless they have some FPS game to show for | ||
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Split.
Switzerland234 Posts
On November 07 2014 14:14 brickrd wrote: im not sure how 2v2 would make battle net less lonely, that seems to bank on an assumption that more people would be interested in 2v2 starcraft than just 1v1... plus for matchmaking 2v2 you need to find twice the players which takes twice the time im all for expanded 2v2 and trying fun new things with the game but i think its myopic to assume that it would automatically be revitalizing... sc has a 1v1 community and not everyone would buy into competitive 2v2 It was meant half serious and half joke. It's unrealistic and doesn't make much sense considering starcrafts history, but the idea is kinda funny. He also said if 1v1 got removed. In that case it would definitely get less lonely actually needing somebody to play with, since you would always play together with somebody and I would assume chat channels would get more activity from people looking for partners. On another note, maybe they put so much new features in lotv that they need each 2 players to show it all off and that's why it's 2v2 | ||
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Yrr
Germany804 Posts
On November 07 2014 20:30 Azurues wrote: LoTv boys. if it is not, that will be surprising. There is another exhibition block on saturday. So i guess the 2v2's is HotS in the first exhibition block and LotV showmatches (do you remember battlereports?) in the second block right before the grand finals block. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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LordErebus
Germany157 Posts
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
These matches are sick though! Shame that I have to be up at 04:00 am during my universities' exam period... But who knows how brave I become tonight. It's also quite weird to see that the JD, Zest vs SoO, Polt match contains all the players I would have loved to win Blizzcon. Glad that we get to see more of them, and hopefully... in L-O-T-V, oh yeah!! | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
I think it'll be HotS. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 07 2014 23:00 c0ldfusion wrote: Why do you guys expect it to be played on LotV? I think it'll be HotS. It's a showmatch like we've NEVER seen before according to the tweet | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On November 07 2014 20:35 Yrr wrote: There is another exhibition block on saturday. So i guess the 2v2's is HotS in the first exhibition block and LotV showmatches (do you remember battlereports?) in the second block right before the grand finals block. This is the logical conclusion. | ||
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swag_bro
Japan782 Posts
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Darrkhan
Finland1236 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
The first exhibition block is a few hours after the 'SC2 What's Next' panel. They should be revealing LotV even before that in the opening ceremony, so it does not make sense to still play HotS in the exhibition's time slot. As with everyone else, though, this is all speculation. I guess we will have to wait until after the side show that is the WCS Global Finals. | ||
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Clubfan
Germany913 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
saw it nvm | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
On November 08 2014 03:01 LongShot27 wrote: any idea about when? 59 minutes from your post. http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20141107T11&p0=137&msg=BlizzCon&csz=1&swk=1 | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 07 2014 23:01 The_Templar wrote: It's a showmatch like we've NEVER seen before according to the tweet As in: You've never seen a 2v2 tournament with these players! I'm generally pessimistic in these situations, so I'm expecting Hots. Deep down I will be really disappointed if it actually is. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 08 2014 03:06 Zenbrez wrote: As in: You've never seen a 2v2 tournament with these players! I'm generally pessimistic in these situations, so I'm expecting Hots. Deep down I will be really disappointed if it actually is. it's either LotV or Macromicro I think... or both... new units and new mining could be both | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Also mystery game to be announced semi confirmed by this guy: https://twitter.com/shindags Thsi showmatch will be interesting | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On November 08 2014 03:21 [SXG]Phantom wrote: "Huge change with 12 workers per base but less supply per base in Void" Also mystery game to be announced semi confirmed by this guy: https://twitter.com/shindags Thsi showmatch will be interesting They're actually redesigning the game, I can't believe this. They actually listen | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 08 2014 03:24 Lexender wrote: They're actually redesigning the game, I can't believe this. They actually listen Are we actually taking random tweets as a source now? I don't believe ANY of this until I see it. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On November 08 2014 03:30 KeksX wrote: Are we actually taking random tweets as a source now? I don't believe ANY of this until I see it. Infeza (WCS observer) is tweeting the same thing and I think he is a good source https://twitter.com/inFeZa | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
http://instagram.com/p/vG6dQ6OkCP/ | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Holy damn. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On November 08 2014 04:28 KeksX wrote: Browder just confirmed lurkers. Holy damn. Are they getting rid of the SH? | ||
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DomiNater
United States527 Posts
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r1flEx
Belgium256 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
No word on that yet, he just said "And yes, lurkers are back" and then talked about Archon mode and went off. | ||
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Rhythmic
Russian Federation14 Posts
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada968 Posts
Also, that LotV cinematic.. soooo many motherships! | ||
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Yrr
Germany804 Posts
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
On November 08 2014 04:53 Yrr wrote: 2v2's in Archonmode? Possibly. Either way, the showmatches are going to be LotV as Tasteless just said. Edit: Looking at what David Kim just told Redeye and I think we've got Archon Mode for the showmatches! | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On November 07 2014 06:39 Cheren wrote: My guess is it's Team Melee, either in HotS or LotV. Wow I was right somehow. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 08 2014 04:21 Daralii wrote: The exhibition matches will probably be played on archon mode, http://instagram.com/p/vG6dQ6OkCP/ I highly doubt it. Archon mode is pretty lame from a spectator point of view. 2v2 is good because it lets us potentially see all 3 races in 1 game. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
No, SH is getting reworked. | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On November 08 2014 06:10 ZAiNs wrote: I highly doubt it. Archon mode is pretty lame from a spectator point of view. 2v2 is good because it lets us potentially see all 3 races in 1 game. I think David Kim said something like 'You will see archon mode in action with our exhibition matches with pros like soO etc' on stream just before WCS preshow. | ||
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triforks
United States370 Posts
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 08 2014 08:35 Leviance wrote: So what time actually ARE these matches!?!?!? After the RO8 iirc | ||
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
On November 08 2014 08:39 Highways wrote: Will these matches be in LotV Heck yes. Let me get these going again... Poll: Your pick to win the doubles show tourney? MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) (11) StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) (2) Zest & Jaedong (30) soO & Polt (29) Not sure/Just want good matches (5) 77 total votes Your vote: Your pick to win the doubles show tourney? (Vote): MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) Poll: Favorite first-round doubles showmatch? MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) vs. StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) (6) Zest & Jaedong vs. soO & Polt (46) 52 total votes Your vote: Favorite first-round doubles showmatch? (Vote): MC & HyuN (Bounty Hunters) vs. StarDust & Jjakji (mYinsanity) Poll: How much do you want these matches on LotV? Extremely (49) Quite a bit (5) Slightly (3) Not much (1) 58 total votes Your vote: How much do you want these matches on LotV? (Vote): Extremely Also...is someone up for the challenge of LRing these? | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
On November 08 2014 09:32 zev318 wrote: well i certainly hope the rest 2 matches are 3-0s just so this can be kept on schedule. Not necessarily, but I do hope we still will see these tonight. | ||
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Yrr
Germany804 Posts
On November 08 2014 09:32 zev318 wrote: well i certainly hope the rest 2 matches are 3-0s just so this can be kept on schedule. swarmhosts next up  | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 08 2014 09:32 zev318 wrote: well i certainly hope the rest 2 matches are 3-0s just so this can be kept on schedule. Why would you want to see a TaeJa vs INnoVation 3-0? Even GumBa and I want the other's player to take a map | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
ala Life vs Zest game 3? I hope for mass tempests again | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On November 08 2014 09:48 The_Templar wrote: Why would you want to see a TaeJa vs INnoVation 3-0? Even GumBa and I want the other's player to take a map well i am on the east coast, and i want to watch JD and he plays at 11pm est. and i have work tomorrow, so that's how it goes. it is already 5pm pst, so the first 2 matches took 5 hours to finish. i can def see a pvz and tvt taking another 3 hours easy | ||
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
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Azurues
Malaysia5612 Posts
Wow. Hype boys | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Wafflelisk
Canada1061 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
ok ok | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:10 Entropic wrote: The hercs look dinky more like a toy than something terran-y It looks a lot like an SCV | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:15 NKexquisite wrote: Doesn't the ravenger have a normal attack? That fire from the sky attack seems useless It's clearly not intended to hit mobile, let alone super fast units | ||
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spritzz
Canada331 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:17 NKexquisite wrote: It doesn't seem like Stardust and Jjakji are taking this as serious as MC and Hyun to be honest. What do you want them to do vs cyclones.. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
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691175002
122 Posts
I'm not seeing any drastic changes to the zerg early game either. | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:19 Zenbrez wrote: What do you want them to do vs cyclones.. I don't know... 2 Cyclones are unstoppable? If so, they are super broken I guess | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:20 691175002 wrote: Holy shit, I know this is just a showmatch but these new terran units are ridiculous. I'm not seeing any drastic changes to the zerg early game either. The Ravager was out at like 6 minutes. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
Good thing I was proven right. I mean, a 1 second setup for example? | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
Starting with 12 workers has literally 0 impact on how much you would expand. It's just shaving the first minute of the game | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:31 NKexquisite wrote: So, what happens when protoss drops a disrupter in your mineral line? They are "invulnerable" (they cant die?) so, are your workers just fucked? Split really well... | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:31 NKexquisite wrote: So, what happens when protoss drops a disrupter in your mineral line? They are "invulnerable" (they cant die?) so, are your workers just fucked? Well, you still have 4 seconds to split your workers / move them away | ||
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jojos11
Korea (North)314 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:31 NKexquisite wrote: So, what happens when protoss drops a disrupter in your mineral line? They are "invulnerable" (they cant die?) so, are your workers just fucked? same way when terran drop widow mines in your mineral line | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:34 fezvez wrote: When you describe the cyclone as a "Ground-based, Stalker-speed, 10 range Phoenix that hits both air and ground", you just realize that you have a fucking incredible phoenix Yeah, but they have no graviton beam. | ||
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:28 fezvez wrote: Are you fucking me DKim? Starting with 12 workers has literally 0 impact on how much you would expand. It's just shaving the first minute of the game so you expand 1 minute faster? Plus the 500 Less minerals per patch would also make you want to expand faster... | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:18 Zenbrez wrote: It's clearly not intended to hit mobile, let alone super fast units Its pretty clear its intended to break siege lines. edit: and forcefield too. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:37 MisterTea wrote: so you expand 1 minute faster? Plus the 500 Less minerals per patch would also make you want to expand faster... With mule I'd imagine terran would have to expand much more often. | ||
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:42 royalroadweed wrote: Its pretty clear its intended to break siege lines. main mechanic is it's ability to break forcefields | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
so as ive been saying SPEEDLINGS WRECK EM | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:45 MisterTea wrote: main mechanic is it's ability to break forcefields dammit ninja'd | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
2. Pickup the disruptor with warp prism and fly to enemy mineral line before the timer 3. Drop the disruptor for instant PROFIT? | ||
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SantosPhillipCarlo
United States351 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
Nice to have a potential PvT show match tomorrow. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
An SCV suit refitted to serve a combat role is an idea the artists seemingly like, since a similar thing was done with the warhound. Edit: What a god. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 16:38 GGzerG wrote: Does closed beta begin in January or is it in closed beta now ? Or is now the F&F time? I don't see them having LotV beta and Heroes beta start the same month. Edit: Apparently Redeye said it was open beta in January, which would possibly mean a release in spring-summer(before WCS S3?) and closed beta almost any day. Don't know if he misspoke or what. | ||
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maddogmcgee
Australia105 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8516 Posts
On November 08 2014 16:19 SantosPhillipCarlo wrote: Official VOD is now up for the first showmatch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8O2Bo0VaDQ haha thanks for posting! my god the new terran units are super strong. some might say terran imba. //edit: cyclones are warhounds on steroids | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On November 08 2014 18:44 -Archangel- wrote: Those cyclones lol Seriously, what the fuck. -2 range at least and they might be a bit more balanced. That showmatch was painful from Zerg point of view. And the Protoss one showed that Zerg anti air still sucks. From these show matches I'm feeling Zerg will not be very good at LotV, but then again, maybe the pros played bad and it definitely will get a lot of patches before release. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
The Tank drops looked fantastic. The Cyclone looked great to, especially since there were no Zerglings made to kill them. Unfortunately we didn't get to see any decent use of the Zerg stuff in TvZ. | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:09 HolydaKing wrote: Seriously, what the fuck. -2 range at least and they might be a bit more balanced. That showmatch was painful from Zerg point of view. And the Protoss one showed that Zerg anti air still sucks. From these show matches I'm feeling Zerg will not be very good at LotV, but then again, maybe the pros played bad and it definitely will get a lot of patches before release. Jjakji and Stardust basically refused to make speedlings against that tiny Diamond Back,not saying that the Cyclone is balanced as it is but the units they kept throwing at it were definitely not the right ones to deal with it. | ||
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GenericRasoio
Italy1 Post
Zerg are dead. Zerg remain dead. And Terrans have killed them. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:27 [17]Purple wrote: Jjakji and Stardust basically refused to make speedlings against that tiny Diamond Back,not saying that the Cyclone is balanced as it is but the units they kept throwing at it were definitely not the right ones to deal with it. Yeah. Oh my roaches die to these? Lets try roaches again. Lets try roaches again, lets try roaches again. and later: perhaps an immobile lurker works? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:10 GenericRasoio wrote: The tank drops in a nutshell: Zerg are dead. Zerg remain dead. And Terrans have killed them. Excellent first post! | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
The Stardust was just trying on new units which work worse if made alone vs new units of terran. I am sure in real matches, it is going to work differently. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:17 -Archangel- wrote: Well any real zerg would have made mass mutalisks ve terran with no real antiair The Stardust was just trying on new units which work worse if made alone vs new units of terran. I am sure in real matches, it is going to work differently. Cyclones can shoot up. | ||
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Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:17 -Archangel- wrote: Well any real zerg would have made mass mutalisks ve terran with no real antiair The Stardust was just trying on new units which work worse if made alone vs new units of terran. I am sure in real matches, it is going to work differently. Any real Terran have win the game when they drop the two siege tank, even the hero attack at first look game ending if follow by a push after. | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:20 Tppz! wrote: I cant believe that some idiot already made balancewhines after 2 games with players never even seen those units before or not even playing their mainrace. Wake the fuck up its not even a beta and we all know how the community made the game bad in the first 2 betas. Pls think before circlejerking instantly There were 2 game played? I can only find the MC-Hyun vs Stardust-Jjakji one. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On November 08 2014 19:27 [17]Purple wrote: Jjakji and Stardust basically refused to make speedlings against that tiny Diamond Back,not saying that the Cyclone is balanced as it is but the units they kept throwing at it were definitely not the right ones to deal with it. Say they did, I'm having a hard time theorycrafting a reason why Blue Flame Hellions + Cyclones WOULDN'T just decimate everything Zerg can make before a spire hits the field and from there it's just a simple matter to add in a few Thors. The Range on the Cyclones is one problem, the DPS is another, but even when you deal with the stats of those to make it more fair, the mobility and ability to deal with Armored units that would normally counter Hellions makes them too much. I like the Cyclones, I think they look fun as hell, but they just seem way too overpowered in TvZ just from a design point of view. So much of TvZ already boils down to that early game map control between Speedlings and Hellions, this tips that balance WAY into the Terran's favor and puts Zerg at a major disadvantage from the get go of every match. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:21 Tyrhanius wrote: Any real Terran have win the game when they drop the two siege tank, even the hero attack at first look game ending if follow by a push after. I dunno what you want to say, but if I have to guess I would say its a balancewhine. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
What's about lurkers? They seem very weak. Easy to kill and the attack can be easily avoided with little micro. | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:25 Vindicare605 wrote: Say they did, I'm having a hard time theorycrafting a reason why Blue Flame Hellions + Cyclones WOULDN'T just decimate everything Zerg can make before a spire hits the field and from there it's just a simple matter to add in a few Thors. The Range on the Cyclones is one problem, the DPS is another, but even when you deal with the stats of those to make it more fair, the mobility and ability to deal with Armored units that would normally counter Hellions makes them too much. I like the Cyclones, I think they look fun as hell, but they just seem way too overpowered in TvZ in their current state. I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable. Personally I think they should be gated behind the Armory (pretty sure they didn't need that) or maybe increase the acquisition time to fire or something. I'm sure someone smarter than me will figure it out. If I had to bet on which unit was going to be drastically changed before release, I'd put the Cyclone as #1. I think the comparisons to the Warhound are justified for its apparent strength but I also enjoy that at least instead of making a Mechanical Marauder, Blizzard made a ground based pheonix. On November 08 2014 20:38 Tiaraju9 wrote: I did not play Broodwar. What's about lurkers? They seem very weak, easy to kill and micro away. Savior Lurker Stop That's mainly why they are so hyped up from Broodwar. If they play anything close like that in SC2, we will have to see. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
I remember amateur content producers uploading the vods faster than the official Blizzard production. | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:20 Tppz! wrote: I cant believe that some idiot already made balancewhines after 2 games with players never even seen those units before or not even playing their mainrace. Wake the fuck up its not even a beta and we all know how the community made the game bad in the first 2 betas. Pls think before circlejerking instantly Well, the Ravager just looks utterly useless beside his ability to destroy Forcefields. Not really balance whine, but even a Bronze league player who never touched the game would probably be able to dodge that shot :-P and of course the Cyclone looks insanely strong right now. But they'll adjust these things, of course. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:39 [17]Purple wrote: I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable. Personally I think they should be gated behind the Armory (pretty sure they didn't need that) or maybe increase the acquisition time to fire or something. I'm sure someone smarter than me will figure it out. If I had to bet on which unit was going to be drastically changed before release, I'd put the Cyclone as #1. I think the comparisons to the Warhound are justified for its apparent strength but I also enjoy that at least instead of making a Mechanical Marauder, Blizzard made a ground based pheonix. Of course the show match was pre-alpha and obviously there's no WAY that Blizzard would ever let Cyclones get into the game in that state. But just from a design point of view, Blizzard I think made a mistake introducing a mobile unit designed for early game play into a match up that already had a very delicate and very interesting I might add early game dynamic for establishing map control. This is exacerbated by the economy changes that make that early game map control that much more important. Would Cyclones be as problematic in TvP or TvT? Probably not, but what they do to TvZ is just too detrimental. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:42 JustPassingBy wrote: Oh man, when will the vods of the second exibition match finally be uploaded...? <.< I remember amateur content producers uploading the vods faster than the official Blizzard production. You can watch here: http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/live-stream/ The showmatches begin at 13 hour mark. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:26 404AlphaSquad wrote: I dunno what you want to say, but if I have to guess I would say its a balancewhine. It's beyond of imbalance, it's ridiculous. It's looks like a moba, not a RTS. How you can even make this change and seriously think the result won't as imbalance ? Can you really think if you can drop siege tank, player won't abuse this to crush their opponent early like they have done during the hellbat drop time ? Can you really think that it's a good strategic game when a race can abuse of this, while the other is clueless ? Even it's beta, it's so uninspired, so unprofessional... Looks like they want to kill SC2 in order to get more casual player in the game. The description of the unit reminds me a League of Legend spotlight... The beta will be super long, and the result probably as shaky as when they remove the warhound, and follow again by periods of imbalance where the winnerr will be more the player who plays the OP race at the good moment, rather than the more clever or the best. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:48 Tyrhanius wrote: It's beyond of imbalance, it's ridiculous. It's looks like a moba, not a RTS. How you can even make this change and seriously think the result won't as imbalance ? Can you really think if you can drop siege tank, player won't abuse this to crush their opponent early like they have done during the hellbat drop time ? Can you really think that it's a good strategic game when a race can abuse of this, while the other is clueless ? Even it's beta, it's so uninspired, so unprofessional... Looks like they want to kill SC2 in order to get more casual player in the game. The description of the unit reminds me a League of Legend spotlight... The beta will be super long, and the result probably as shaky as when they remove the warhound, and follow again by periods of imbalance where the winnerr will be more the player who plays the OP race at the good moment, rather than the more clever or the best. While everyone is making conjectures, considering and thinking hypothetically, you already has all the answers that we need. Blizzard should bring you to the SC2 panel today. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Does not help them vs muta. But I agree that range + speed is a bad combination. | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:39 [17]Purple wrote: I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable. Personally I think they should be gated behind the Armory (pretty sure they didn't need that) or maybe increase the acquisition time to fire or something. I'm sure someone smarter than me will figure it out. If I had to bet on which unit was going to be drastically changed before release, I'd put the Cyclone as #1. I think the comparisons to the Warhound are justified for its apparent strength but I also enjoy that at least instead of making a Mechanical Marauder, Blizzard made a ground based pheonix. Savior Lurker Stop That's mainly why they are so hyped up from Broodwar. If they play anything close like that in SC2, we will have to see. Why would Hellion+Cyclone be unstoppable? Speedlings can and often do counter Hellions right now. Obviously they wouldn't ship the unit being OP, and I don't even think its design is inherently OP, but... it's a dumb unit anyway. I hope it gets overhauled. | ||
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syroz
France249 Posts
It is cheap changes for now, i am quite desapointing. New units don't fit, seem weird in the game. The game is going to be balance soon enought, but i don't really like the path blizzard take. | ||
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Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:42 Swisslink wrote: Well, the Ravager just looks utterly useless beside his ability to destroy Forcefields. Not really balance whine, but even a Bronze league player who never touched the game would probably be able to dodge that shot :-P and of course the Cyclone looks insanely strong right now. But they'll adjust these things, of course. As we all know this is the alpha. remember what happened in the last too alphas? everything got changed. nothing stayed as it was. When the beta will come wemay not even have any of those units after all. yes teh ravager seems to be not very useful right now. but dont you think blizzard knows this as well? it will change 100%. the idea behind it is what we should look at. destroying forcefields? yes baby. thats what we wanted siince WOL alpha. we dont know the stats of the unit and we dont know how it will change but we know that breaking forcefields is the number one job of this unti and that means that an ability to break forcefields will get into beta no matter what. thats what is exiting about it - i dont care if the ravager is shit and its spell is shit besides breaking ff - it will be balanced in the end. we also dont know how much time was put into the ideas. its blizzcon - maybe there was 1 unit missing and they just added the ravager without intense evolvement of the unit - there was only the idea of breaking ff. they made the unit in a few weeks and thats it. they arent even about balncing right now - they cant be. they are designing units only. lok at the hots beta. wasnt the widow mine a shredder and completely different? the warhound was an antiair unit and the tempest was an antimuta unit. nothing of those things came into beta like that, but they stayed with the idea behind it: -area control through mines -antiair buff for mech through mines - antimuta buff for phoenix | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:00 syroz wrote: I dont see the general idea of this expansion, exept: more random action and then we'll see. It is cheap changes for now, i am quite desapointing. New units don't fit, seem weird in the game. The game is going to be balance soon enought, but i don't really like the path blizzard take. The economy changes are very big, they alone trump the impact any new unit will add to the game. Blizzard is FINALLY breaking up the 3 base vs 3 base standard that we've seen since WoL and forcing more active expanding. That does a whole host of things, but what it does more than anything else is create non-stop action across the map. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:51 Tiaraju9 wrote: While everyone is making conjectures, considering and thinking hypothetically, you already has all the answers that we need. Blizzard should bring you to the SC2 panel today. What's your level on SC2 man ? If you know the game, you notice Zerg beginning will be the exact same, while they need to deal with a lot of new threat with no new unit available at this moment. Do you think you can cost effectly counter a 2 proxy rax heros with zergling/queen ? No, of course. You think protoss could deal with a cyclon rush like WH rush was in HOTS beta ? with the new speed of the tempest maybe... If you have played since the begenning of WOL, you know blizzard is making again the exact same mistakes, and has learnt nothing... | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:05 Vindicare605 wrote: The economy changes are very big, they alone trump the impact any new unit will add to the game. Blizzard is FINALLY breaking up the 3 base vs 3 base standard that we've seen since WoL and forcing more active expanding. That does a whole host of things, but what it does more than anything else is create non-stop action across the map. That's why I'm so excited. The game as we know now is nothing like LotV. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:09 Tyrhanius wrote: What's your level on SC2 man ? If you know the game, you notice Zerg beginning will be the exact same, while they need to deal with a lot of new threat with no new unit available at this moment. Do you think you can cost effectly counter a 2 proxy rax heros with zergling/queen ? No, of course. You think protoss could deal with a cyclon rush like WH rush was in HOTS beta ? with the new speed of the tempest maybe... If you have played since the begenning of WOL, you know blizzard is making again the exact same mistakes, and has learnt nothing... Toss can theoretically delay cyclones forever with FF, stasis traps, and photon overcharge. Banshees will probably prove to be the bigger issue. | ||
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AFSpeeDy
126 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:42 Swisslink wrote: Well, the Ravager just looks utterly useless beside his ability to destroy Forcefields. Not really balance whine, but even a Bronze league player who never touched the game would probably be able to dodge that shot :-P and of course the Cyclone looks insanely strong right now. But they'll adjust these things, of course. Well the Ravager doesnt look useless. Its a Unit with an shot you can dodge with small amounts of units, like in the showmatch. But imagine a large fairly immobile Army (like Protoss Deathball ) going up against them. Suddenly it becomes very hard to dodge this projectile. This means massing up an army against them gonna be fairly hard, while with smaller troops you can outmicro them, which i think is a really cool design. | ||
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Yrr
Germany804 Posts
On November 08 2014 15:08 Zenbrez wrote: So did they not reduce saturation to 12? It's still 16, with 24 max workers I think they just didnt want to show new maps. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:19 AFSpeeDy wrote: Well the Ravager doesnt look useless. Its a Unit with an shot you can dodge with small amounts of units, like in the showmatch. But imagine a large fairly immobile Army (like Protoss Deathball ) going up against them. Suddenly it becomes very hard to dodge this projectile. This means massing up an army against them gonna be fairly hard, while with smaller troops you can outmicro them, which i think is a really cool design. It also synergizes very well with fungal. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:14 Daralii wrote: Toss can theoretically delay cyclones forever with FF, stasis traps, and photon overcharge. Banshees will probably prove to be the bigger issue. Statis traps doesn't last a lot, and cyclone kill oracle/MSC/stalker/sentry, so even you can gain some time you have no unit that counter them after. Even immortal or void ray have less range so got countered. Maybe phoenix can be good, it's hard to know without testing. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
cyclones are just OP and will be nerfed to... something. Stardust and Jjakji just tried the Ravager and the Lurker, that happens to suck vs tank medivac and cyclones atm (guess the cyclone should have smaller range? why is it countering anything with less range and that is slower than a goddamn stalker XD). Then again, its OP atm. Zerg really needs a spire when medivacs are out now O_O edit: yeah but cyclone hellion looks very natural, im just guessing (well its more than just a guess), but cyclones should be good agaist melee or slow moving units right? right now slow is slower than a stalker and even ranged units with a decent range are bad | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:45 Superbanana wrote: Its all broken atm XD cyclones are just OP and will be nerfed to... something. Stardust and Jjakji just tried the Ravager and the Lurker, that happens to suck vs tank medivac and cyclones. Then again, its OP atm. Zerg really needs a spire when medivacs are out now O_O On paper, speedlings should shit on cyclones. We'll have to see how cyclone/hellion plays before it can really be judged. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On November 08 2014 20:48 Tyrhanius wrote: It's beyond of imbalance, it's ridiculous. It's looks like a moba, not a RTS. How you can even make this change and seriously think the result won't as imbalance ? Can you really think if you can drop siege tank, player won't abuse this to crush their opponent early like they have done during the hellbat drop time ? Can you really think that it's a good strategic game when a race can abuse of this, while the other is clueless ? Even it's beta, it's so uninspired, so unprofessional... Looks like they want to kill SC2 in order to get more casual player in the game. The description of the unit reminds me a League of Legend spotlight... The beta will be super long, and the result probably as shaky as when they remove the warhound, and follow again by periods of imbalance where the winnerr will be more the player who plays the OP race at the good moment, rather than the more clever or the best. I agree on some points here. A lot of things look more like MOBA and seem to be there to appeal at this community (grapples, traps, etc). They should not forget they're making a RTS game where positioning should matter. But don't worry, even the closed beta won't look like what we saw yesterday at all. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Remember HotS's locusts that can shoot air units? Lol, i was like...why would anyone build anything else...ever? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
The gameplay looked fun actually. Speedroach, speedling->cyclone? Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. So it seems it might be: cyclone+herc vs speedling+roach - Might be micro involved tbh. Seems like quite a fun fight. The zerg player(s) didnt tech lair until very late. And no speed ling. Ofcourse cyclone owned them. The zerg(s) was awful. I dig the 12worker start alot. Finally the gameplay can start alot sooner. Looked like cyclone works a bit like goliath from broodwar actually. I kinda like that mech finally has a unit which works like goliath. The thor has always been quite dull. Seems that the approach they have is sort of like this: The early units you make are very relevant to your plan. The early units you make are very relevant with how you defend, attack. The combo feels more important overall now. More synergy with each other and works good together. I actually felt positive while watching that 2v2 video. Hope they really nail it wiht lotv. The economy feels abit unspiring overall tho, didnt looked like it changed much. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
Because if they can still be attacked, I'm thinking that stasis ward in a mineral line + disruptor drop could be pretty cool | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:25 Yrr wrote: I think they just didnt want to show new maps. So would that be 6 mineral patches instead of 8? Seems excessive, it would be 6x1000 = 6000 minerals per base while now it is 8x1500 = 12000. Granted there are few games where all the bases are mined out right now, but with half the minerals on the map it could happen very very often, creating awkward draw scenarios. When I heard about reducing saturation I thought that workers would take more timing to mine minerals, therefore you only need 2 workers per mineral patch instead of 3. | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:31 KingAlphard wrote: So would that be 6 mineral patches instead of 8? Seems excessive, it would be 6x1000 = 6000 minerals per base while now it is 8x1500 = 12000. Granted there are few games where all the bases are mined out right now, but with half the minerals on the map it could happen very very often, creating awkward draw scenarios. When I heard about reducing saturation I thought that workers would take more timing to mine minerals, therefore you only need 2 workers per mineral patch instead of 3. There have to be more bases on the maps to balance the reduced amount of minerals per base out. Generally speaking I expect the maps to look completely different in LotV. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: When units are frozen via the oracle's stasis ward, are they temporarily invulnerable and frozen, or just frozen? Because if they can still be attacked, I'm thinking that stasis ward in a mineral line + disruptor drop could be pretty cool Immune to damage | ||
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:43 Caladan wrote: VODs anywhere? I'm only finding game 1 of exhibition matches. http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/live-stream/ 12 hour 14 minute is the start of the first. Second one is about 12:49:00. Don't know if the finals has been played yet. According to today's schedule, more multiplayer today (finals?): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/470823-wcs-global-finals-2014-day-3 | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
I was mostly refering to the fact that 2 Cyclones shared about 70 kills between them before Terran ended the game by showing Battlecruisers. I do agree with you that the Hellion+Cyclone (theocraftically) seems unstoppable. Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Speedroach, speedling->cyclone? Cyclone+herc might work well vs roach and speedling. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote: Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. Yeah I agree that Hellion + Cyclone looks to be pretty insane... if the Cyclone became slower, had shorter range, or shot less frequently, then that should help a bit. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote: Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. The Cyclone as is won't make it to the beta probably. But I don't think the unit like broken like the warhound was. You can make it slower, or the lockon slower/last not as long, or it's lockon being able to somehow be interupted. There's lots of variables to play around with this unit. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:54 Hider wrote: Units that can kite infinitely without taking any damage in a typical situation is never gonna work out. The range on the Cyclone is simply way too high vs Roaches. Also, give zerg some new stuff early game if you want to add further options to terran in the early/early midgame. Hellion + Cyclone. I don't know how a Roach/Speedling player can attack into that as long as terran just kites infinitely. People keep saying Hellion + Cyclone, but I don't see it. Speedlings can and do beat Hellions in open terrain. Terran adds Cyclones and suddenly the Hellions win every engagement? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah I agree that Hellion + Cyclone looks to be pretty insane... if the Cyclone became slower, had shorter range, or shot less frequently, then that should help a bit. Yeh, so here is still my issue with Blizzard. Coming to the conclusion that Cyclone has too high range combined with too fast movement speed so it creates a bad interaction isn't very difficult. It would take 2 minutes in the unit tester to see that. These guys have like 8+ years of game development experience with Starcraft, so you would think they knew the basic check-list on what to test. So why on earth hasn't anyone at Blizzard tweaked those numbers before they released it into alpha? To me this just indicates that they are making the same errors as they have done previously by not focussing enough on making the various unit interactions fun. Also, @ the Corrupter. In the video Blizzard had a much higher damage value of the Corrupter's damage in order to make it a bit more exciting. They probably knew that a Corrupter just tickling at a building would be pretty boring, so they couldn't show the actual Corrupter in the video.. That's a bit embarrasing, and it's clear that Blizzard still doens't know what to do with it. @ Swarm Host. It seemed that Blizzard thinks this is all about defense vs offense - That the Swarm Host is boring becasue it's a defensive unit in HOTS. That's, however, not the main issue. Instead, it's boring becasue it doesn't reward player vs player engagements. With the new SHit's now posssible for the zerg player - once every 60th second - to kill stuff with free units without any countermicro potential from the enemy. I expect this new Swarm Host to stay for 2 months in beta (or so) before everyone realizes that it's not very fun. | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:18 Hider wrote: Yeh, so here is still my issue with Blizzard. Coming to the conclusion that Cyclone has too high range combined with too fast movement speed so it creates a bad interaction isn't very difficult. It would take 2 minutes in the unit tester to see that. These guys have like 8+ years of game development experience with Starcraft, so you would think they knew the basic check-list on what to test. So why on earth hasn't anyone at Blizzard tweaked those numbers before they released it into alpha? To me this just indicates that they are making the same errors as they have done previously by not focussing enough on making the various unit interactions fun. As far as I remember, these sort of teaser releases are just to show potential extremes and build hype more than anything else, and they care very little about realistic balance this early. Remember the shredder? They have plenty of time to balance/ buff/ nerf/ remove things. There's no doubt in my mind that the cyclone will be modified. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:18 Hider wrote: Yeh, so here is still my issue with Blizzard. Coming to the conclusion that Cyclone has too high range combined with too fast movement speed so it creates a bad interaction isn't very difficult. It would take 2 minutes in the unit tester to see that. These guys have like 8+ years of game development experience with Starcraft, so you would think they knew the basic check-list on what to test. So why on earth hasn't anyone at Blizzard tweaked those numbers before they released it into alpha? To me this just indicates that they are making the same errors as they have done previously by not focussing enough on making the various unit interactions fun. I couldn't agree more. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
As far as I remember, these sort of teaser releases are just to show potential extremes and build hype more than anything else, and they care very little about realistic balance this early. Remember the shredder? Well there is still no downside to spending a bit of time tweaking the number stats of your units. This is what makes good interactions. And it's not particularly time consuming either as it would take like 2 minutes in the unit-tester, and then 1 minute to go into the editor and tweak its range, and another 1 minute to upload the patch. Shredder was a different case, as it was a completley new concept that would require much more actual testing to see how it fitted into the gameplay. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: As far as I remember, these sort of teaser releases are just to show potential extremes and build hype more than anything else, and they care very little about realistic balance this early. Remember the shredder? They have plenty of time to balance/ buff/ nerf/ remove things. There's no doubt in my mind that the cyclone will be modified. Indeed! And i do like the direction they are going with unit design. BUT there is a crucial mistake they absolutely must fix. Terran is getting early and mid-game buffs, zerg mid-late game buffs and protoss... early game nerfs and a strange robo unit. They should think again about some stuff XD, its not just about tweaking the numbers. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:33 Superbanana wrote: Indeed! And i do like the direction they are going with unit design. BUT there is a crucial mistake they absolutely must fix. Terran is getting early and mid-game buffs, zerg mid-late game buffs and protoss... early game nerfs and a strange robo unit. They should think again about some stuff XD, its not just about tweaking the numbers. I really hope Protoss gets a second new unit, just like Terran and Zerg. On November 08 2014 23:25 Hider wrote: Well there is still no downside to spending a bit of time tweaking the number stats of your units. This is what makes good interactions. And it's not particularly time consuming either as it would take like 2 minutes in the unit-tester, and then 1 minute to go into the editor and tweak its range, and another 1 minute to upload the patch. Shredder was a different case, as it was a completley new concept that would require much more actual testing to see how it fitted into the gameplay. I'd imagine that Blizzard isn't quite yet sure how to balance everything (e.g., which nerf would best work for the cyclone) and just wanted to show some new prototypes. The units could have *always* been better, regardless of Blizzard's stage in creating LotV, so I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon just yet. David Kim was pretty clear and repetitive with the fact that everything here is subject to change. They just wanted to present some possibilities, and some of them are most likely and good and interesting, and some of them are surely bad changes. ::shrugs:: | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
I'd imagine that Blizzard isn't quite yet sure how to balance everything (e.g., which nerf would best work for the cyclone) and just wanted to show some new prototypes. The units could have *always* been better, regardless of Blizzard's stage in creating LotV, so I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon just yet. Okay, but let me use an analogy here. Say you are to a multiple cross exam and you have 4 different answers, A, B, C or D. You know for a fact that the answer is not D, but your not sure whether its A, B or C. What Blizzard done here was to answer D even though there is 0% probability that this is the solution while they easily instead could have answered A, B or C. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:01 Hider wrote: @ Banshee. Does anyone know whether the Banshee starts with 7 range or that the 7 range comes with the speed-upgrade? Okay, but let me use an analogy here. Say you are to a multiple cross exam and you have 4 different answers, A, B, C or D. You know for a fact that the answer is not D, but your not sure whether its A, B or C. What Blizzard done here was to answer D even though there is 0% probability that this is the solution while they easily instead could have answered A, B or C. I disagree with that analogy, because D pigeonholes you into a particular answer (i.e., you're NOT choosing A, B, or C, and never will), but Blizzard has merely left the answer blank and is returning back to give an accurate response when they have more information on the question If they applied a particular nerf already, we might not be able to see the bigger picture, potential, and other alternatives that a unit *could have been*. And that's much more like choosing D ahead of time. It reminds me of the old adage "Measure Twice, Cut Once". Why do it wrong/ blindly the first time, which would mean you'd limit your options and probably have to change it anyway? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I disagree with that analogy, because D pigeonholes you into a particular answer (i.e., you're NOT choosing A, B, or C, and never will), but Blizzard has merely left the answer blank and is returning back to give an accurate response when they have more information on the question If they applied a particular nerf already, we might not be able to see the bigger picture, potential, and other alternatives that a unit *could have been*. And that's much more like choosing D ahead of time. It reminds me of the old adage Measure Twice, Cut Once. Leaving the answer blank will usually give you 0points as well. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:09 Big J wrote: Leaving the answer blank will usually give you 0points as well. I think you need to actually read my post before giving such a silly response In particular, "and is returning back to give an accurate response when they have more information on the question" Leaving the answer completely blank for good would mean that they have no intention of changing the units or new concepts, and DK has made it very clear that everything here is subject to change. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think you need to actually read my post before giving such a silly response In particular, "and is returning back to give an accurate response when they have more information on the question" Leaving the answer completely blank for good would mean that they have no intention of changing the units or new concepts, and DK has made it very clear that everything here is subject to change. Oh well, I thought in that that analogy the "test" is the visual presentation. So not giving any answer at the presentation is going to "fail the test at hand". You might eventually pass the course, but right now you are wrong. | ||
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syroz
France249 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I really hope Protoss gets a second new unit, just like Terran and Zerg. I'd imagine that Blizzard isn't quite yet sure how to balance everything (e.g., which nerf would best work for the cyclone) and just wanted to show some new prototypes. The units could have *always* been better, regardless of Blizzard's stage in creating LotV, so I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon just yet. David Kim was pretty clear and repetitive with the fact that everything here is subject to change. They just wanted to present some possibilities, and some of them are most likely and good and interesting, and some of them are surely bad changes. ::shrugs:: There is no doubt the game will be balance soon enought. But all these changes seems just... off-topic, unrelevant, random. Seems that they've just added extreme action without deap reflexion about the gameplay. Half of these changes will evolve I know but It is quite desapointing for now. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:17 Big J wrote: Oh well, I thought in that that analogy the "test" is the visual presentation. So not giving any answer at the presentation is going to "fail the test at hand". You might eventually pass the course, but right now you are wrong. It's a pretty crappy analogy anyway, because the test question isn't well-defined. I think "What new units are there" and "What new concepts are you exploring in LotV" would be more appropriate questions than "What's the perfect way to balance your newest unit". And I think they did a pretty good job of answering those two, more reasonable, questions. I can understand Hider's concern about not balancing things, but if we're between "Not releasing information because we're not sure it'll work out/ hasn't been perfectly assessed yet" and "Release the information to build up hype and get a conversation going", I'm all for the latter. I like transparency, and I like to see what ideas Blizzard toys with, before they go into the garbage can or become modified. And I think hyping up the next game by giving us a little taste is one of the main purposes of these kinds of conventions. We're not even in closed beta, let alone open beta, let alone the real release... I'd much prefer them throw around crazy ideas now and balance them later. Personal preference | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
I'd imagine that Blizzard isn't quite yet sure how to balance everything (e.g., which nerf would best work for the cyclone) and just wanted to show some new prototypes. The units could have *always* been better, regardless of Blizzard's stage in creating LotV, so I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon just yet. David Kim was pretty clear and repetitive with the fact that everything here is subject to change. They just wanted to present some possibilities, and some of them are most likely and good and interesting, and some of them are surely bad changes. ::shrugs:: Something to take into consideration is that 90% of these changes are stuff the community have been asking for years, warpgate, forcfield economy, capital ships, mech, lurkers, less deathball, more microable units. So they not knowing how well things are going to turn out is actually a good sign, they probably want to take the community feedback in how to address each thing, where if they actually went fo a solution they made, they would just be forcing it down on us. One of the biggest complains of HotS is that they didn't let things work out and simply forced down band-aid solutions to everything, they probably don't want anything set on Stone so everything right now is OP as hell so they start tunning it down accordingly as the beta Works out. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:37 Lexender wrote: Something to take into consideration is that 90% of these changes are stuff the community have been asking for years, warpgate, forcfield economy, capital ships, mech, lurkers, less deathball, more microable units. So they not knowing how well things are going to turn out is actually a good sign, they probably want to take the community feedback in how to address each thing, where if they actually went fo a solution they made, they would just be forcing it down on us. One of the biggest complains of HotS is that they didn't let things work out and simply forced down band-aid solutions to everything, they probably don't want anything set on Stone so everything right now is OP as hell so they start tunning it down accordingly as the beta Works out. Agreed. It's nice to see that they directly responded to a lot of the biggest controversies in HotS, like forcefields, mech, and turtling on a few bases. Obviously it won't be perfect yet, but I'm cautiously optimistic and prefer to focus on the good ideas this early on in the development process | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I disagree with that analogy, because D pigeonholes you into a particular answer (i.e., you're NOT choosing A, B, or C, and never will), but Blizzard has merely left the answer blank and is returning back to give an accurate response when they have more information on the question If they applied a particular nerf already, we might not be able to see the bigger picture, potential, and other alternatives that a unit *could have been*. And that's much more like choosing D ahead of time. It reminds me of the old adage "Measure Twice, Cut Once". Why do it wrong/ blindly the first time, which would mean you'd limit your options and probably have to change it anyway? This isn't about nerfing or buffing. I don't care if a unit is like 10% too strong or too weak. What is more important is how the interaction work, and when one unit can kite another unit infinitely without taking damage, it's a terrible interaction, and must not stay in the game. Thus, "infinite kiting" here is similar to answer D, while a lower range could be anser C (a possible solution). Also what exact bigger picture are you trying to see? A unit that can kite infinitely and is extremely boring to play against gives a good picture? Why not start by working on making a specific interaction fun and then let the players battle it out? This would actually give a much better sense of the better picture. Once you get into beta, you can then tweak stats a bit, but the alpha-development is about creating interactions and unit roles (design). Blizzard failed here, and I don't know why you want to defend Blizzard here when they make the same types of errors over and over. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:52 Hider wrote: This isn't about nerfing or buffing. I don't care if a unit is like 10% too strong or too weak. What is more important is how the interaction work, and when one unit can kite another unit infinitely without taking damage, it's a terrible interaction, and must not stay in the game. This makes no sense to me, because nerfing and buffing and otherwise modifying the units are exactly what changes unit interactions. For you to say that things have to be fixed but not through nerfing or buffing seems like a contradiction. Obviously, infinite kiting is an issue. And to fix that, you either completely remove the unit, *or* change some of the stats so that such a thing no longer exists. That's what traditionally happens, and unless the unit gets completely scrapped, that's what we'll see here. Of course the interaction "must not stay in the game", and that's why they tweak the numbers over time and see what works and what doesn't. You're making a lot of presumptions about how Blizzard must suck because some things aren't working properly yet, in the earliest stages of the game. Maybe that ends up being a fair assessment, but I think it's too early to tell and so I'm not comfortable jumping on the bandwagon of "Well, this game is screwed/ fuck Blizzard." Anyways, I must go. Enjoy your day | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
This makes no sense to me, because nerfing and buffing and otherwise changing the units are exactly what changes unit interactions An interaction is about how you micro the units, so let's say Blizzard erfed the DPS of Marines by 5%. Would that change how you microed them vs Banelings? Probably not, and that's why it's a balance-change and not a design-chance. If you change the range/movement speed of the new terran unit, the interaction is different as infinitive kiting is removed. It's very easy to identify when there is a big flaw in the interaction by just playing around with the units in the unit-tester, while balance is a lot more complicated. That's why interactions that are this bad should be put into a playable alpha in the first place. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44329 Posts
On November 09 2014 01:14 Hider wrote: An interaction is about how you micro the units, but let's say you nerfed the DPS of Marines by 5%. Would that change how you microed them vs Banelings? Probably not, and that's why that's a balance-change and not a design-chance. If you change the range of the new terran unit, the interaction is different as infinitive kiting is removed. Yeah I know. And changing the range is nerfing/ buffing. No one is saying that lowering DPS = changing micro ability; you're creating a strawman argument. At this point, I think you're just having a semantics problem and trying to redefine what a nerf is. I'm not okay with playing ball there. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On November 09 2014 01:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah I know. And changing the range is nerfing/ buffing. At this point, I think you're just having a semantics argument and trying to redefine what a nerf is. I'm not okay with playing ball there. My point is that it's very easy to identify when there is a flaw in the interaction, while it's harder to identify when a unit is slightly too weak. If the terran unit could still do infinitive kiting but had like 10 times less damage, then it would be UP, but it's interaction would still be terrible and I would still be in favor of reducing its range (and balancing it around) that. This isn't semantics, as I wouldn't be negative towards Blizzard if a unit had a fun interaction but wasn't perfectly balanced. If we look at Siege tank drops, they are not troublesome because they are overpowered. Even if you make it an upgrade, it would still be poorly designed becasue the enemy can't attack the dropship/Siege Tank. That's the same reason forcefields suck vs zerg. The game becomes most fun when both players can react through their unitcontrol to what the enemy is doing. | ||
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 09 2014 01:42 Tzyx wrote: Is there a vod for the other showmatches or was the TvZ the only one so far? Even though it isn't on English, it is much better than the first one in my opinion. Showing some crazy stuff. | ||
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
On November 09 2014 01:55 Ramiz1989 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-zFgZyVtYo Even though it isn't on English, it is much better than the first one in my opinion. Showing some crazy stuff. Thanks for posting that. That was way better than the 1st. I have a feeling that the landscape for who the best players in LOTV will be different than what they were in wol and hots. It feels way closer to BW. | ||
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ObeseHydra
Brazil196 Posts
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
Also, why did they decide to give terran the one thing that protoss players have wanted which is reaver+shuttle play in the form of siege tank medivac. how awful. | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
That's just stupid. | ||
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limbonic
70 Posts
they have not even been using banshees so far :D | ||
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Latham
9560 Posts
alpha-WoL footage xD | ||
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:19 OtherWorld wrote: Are people really shitting on Blizzard while they are making changes to the game... Yeah, they always do that. Just don't care and move on. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:20 Eluadyl wrote: Yeah, they always do that. Just don't care and move on. Because the fact that it exists in its current form shows an amazing lack of understanding and/or incompetence. | ||
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Latham
9560 Posts
any addition to the factory is a good thing in my book | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:17 Snorkle wrote: This is why I don't play blizzard games anymore. The fact that the game isn't finished is no excuse for how retarded this is. Also, why did they decide to give terran the one thing that protoss players have wanted which is reaver+shuttle play in the form of siege tank medivac. how awful. they dont need an excuse for anything because they havent sold lotv to anyone yet... once its on the market then theyll need an "excuse" if things are wrong | ||
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Swatch
Germany114 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
 soO is about to get 2nd place again in the LotV showmatch!It's like he's really trying. | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
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renlynn
United States276 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2012 Posts
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duckk
United States622 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:52 Darksoldierr wrote: Well, some balance tuning is needed. All races are balanced but Terran is more balanced. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
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syroz
France249 Posts
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Biolunar
Germany224 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:58 syroz wrote: I play terran but i feel bad. Even for an alpha, how can blizzard be so wrong? To be honest, I am not surprised. :D | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:58 syroz wrote: I play terran but i feel bad. Even for an alpha, how can blizzard be so wrong? Did they play it once before showing it? Not that big of a deal, imo. Because the Units are as strong as they are right now, they're used and can be adjusted accordingly. | ||
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syroz
France249 Posts
Thanks I feel better. :D | ||
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Deleted User 329278
123 Posts
Toss with invincible ultra aoe no-burrow speed mine and undodgeable ultra hunter seeker missile of certain death (tempest ability). And hydra killing immortal. Cool. Terran...well, lol. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
HERCs are weird as hell. It looks kind of stupid having a huge beefy infantry guy grappling onto a zergling and going towards it instead of pulling the ling over to him. I feel like that unit is going to get reworked a bit. The fast banshees look like a pain in the ass but Protoss can deal with them easily with Stargate. I think Zerg is going to have much more of an issue since they outrun Overseers and we don't have a spell like Revelation. Looks like Fungal is our only saving grace as usual. Love the BC warp jump and siege tank lift, taken straight out of Starbow. ;P Ravagers are fucking incredible. People saying they look useless don't understand what the unit is meant for. They come out early, they shut down forcefields, they can pick off widow mines and siege tanks, zone out units, and in combination with fungal they'll absolutely wreck anything. Lurkers being back is the most hype thing ever, that just goes without saying. Never gonna worry about mass marines in the lategame again. The new swarm host is literally EVERYTHING I WANTED out of that unit. A hit-and-run siege attacker that can send locusts flying over cliffs and ravines, but no longer clogs up games with constant endless waves. They nailed it. Corruptor ability is sweet, pretty much just what they needed to finally feel like a complete unit. I cannot wait to use the new Nydus Worms, though from the game I saw they don't seem to be invisible while digging like early rumors suggested? Disruptor seems like it could be an interesting unit. Looks like they're going for a sort of pseudo-Reaver scarab type thing. Kinda wish they would just scrap the Colossus and put the Reaver in after all but this could work. Tempest changes are awesome! Immortal change adds more micro and has more versatility compared to the passive Hardened Shield, also great. The new Carrier is a fuckin thing of beauty. Looks like we're actually going to see everyone's capital ships being used finally. Overall impression was damn good. The only thing I really don't like is the HERC. The rest might need some balance tweaking (Cyclones especially) but in concept it's looking very exciting. If I could make only one other change for LotV, I would beg Blizzard to put in dynamic pathfinding so we don't have unit blobs anymore. That would actually make this game almost worthy of being the successor to Brood War. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 09 2014 03:49 [SXG]Phantom wrote: lol those banshees That amount of banshees in hots would have done nearly the exact same amount of damage. The only time the lotv changes came into effect was when they got out of storm faster. | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:09 SmileZerg wrote: Ravagers are fucking incredible. People saying they look useless don't understand what the unit is meant for. They come out early, they shut down forcefields, they can pick off widow mines and siege tanks, zone out units, and in combination with fungal they'll absolutely wreck anything. I haven't thought of that. I hope blizzard posts video showing this interaction. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:19 Espers wrote: why would I ever harass with this Swarm Host instead of using the more versatile Mutalisk? seems like such an overlap. That was exactly what I thought: If I can't reach it by ground and it isn't defended, go there with mutalisks not with SHs. Like, do I invest into a unit that costs a lot to rarely harass but is bad in combat, or do I build a regenerating, flying superfighter that has no downtime ever and can deal with all the mobile threats of my opponent for similar cost/supply? If I can reach it by ground and it isn't defended, use any zerg unit at all because they are still all faster than the Swarm Host/Locust stuff. | ||
Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
You go, siege a little and go. 0 damage taken, while with mutalisk, well 2 widow mine shots and the mutalisk are no more. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
TvZ is great (not perfect). That herc grapple to save it was amazing. That ravager hit on the moving medivac that ALMOST killed it tells me that this could be a really exciting matchup later on. Especially when you consider the cost of losing not only the medivac, but a whole tank. At this point I choose to believe that David Kim was correct when he said speedlings were a direct counter to the Cyclone. As far as I can tell that seems pretty accurate. I was a little confused at how fast the nydus died to only SCVs even with the buff, but I can wait on that. ZvP is also great (not perfect). Again, ravagers look like a great addition to the matchup, where if they manage to hit stalkers with the cooldown ability, it could make for a great engagement. It was amazing to see the stalker dodge lurker hits while they were focused down. That in combination with the multiple armies and several bases reminded me of BW at the time a lot. Also amazed at how good carriers are. I think the disruptors had poor micro most of the game, so those should be better than what we saw initially. Tempests to take out base defenses is a good choice and what they were meant for to begin with. TvP is not so great right now. I do like the herc stalker dynamic, but it is clear that the cyclone seems to be a problem in the matchup, making it fairly one-sided. This makes me extremely skeptical of the unit, because while I do believe speedlings are the answer in Z, we didn't see speedlings and the cyclone also dominated that matchup. As a high plat low diamond, I'm not gonna spew my bullshit about what should change, but this is the only thing in the game I'm willing to admit needs tweaking at the current time. It's good that fast banshee can't outrun phoenix. Again, I'd like to see some disruptor play in the matchup as I think that will help P, but again, we may see a phasing out of bio as mech becomes violently viable in this matchup with tank pickups in addition to the banshee and cyclone. I do like the econ change as it causes players to expand faster. The micro focus in LotV as well as new harass opportunities is going to cause you to split your army far more. These two things work together to bring us what I believe to be a return to BW / Starbow style battles where army supply doesn't max out quite so often and engagements can happen all over the map. I'm worried about turtling, as I saw P do it far too often, but I'm willing to wait until I get my hands on it to say much more than that. | ||
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Holdenintherye
Canada1441 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:24 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: locusts can fly now tho. But according to the trailer, it looked like they had to land before they could attack? Can anyone confirm? | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
The flying was more for transportation than to be AA locusts | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:30 Holdenintherye wrote: But according to the trailer, it looked like they had to land before they could attack? Can anyone confirm? From when jaedong and zest used them, they acted like brood lings. They would fly over to the target then land and attack. Locust also have way more dps. | ||
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Deleted User 329278
123 Posts
Nydus being invincible while burrowing is pretty useless as well, because if seen it gets easily killed even after finishing. If not being seen, well then it doesn't need to be invulnerable. No real difference from before. Invisibility (but maybe detectable) or simply no stupid scream would have made an interesting difference. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:32 royalroadweed wrote: From when jaedong and zest used them, they acted like brood lings. They would fly over to the target then land and attack. Locust also have way more dps. yeah saw locusts shred a nexus in like 3 seconds flat... it was ridiculous, like there was no way to save it once the locusts were spawned | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:34 inken wrote: Guess sh are useless now (not that I liked the hots sh). I think that's the whole point of the change. Blizzard doesn't want to remove the SH altogether (as that would be admitting that the unit was wrong in the first place), they just make it completely cost ineffective. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:35 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: yeah saw locusts shred a nexus in like 3 seconds flat... it was ridiculous, like there was no way to save it once the locusts were spawned Yep. They killed the nexus the geysers and the pylons before I realized what happened. Tbh I kinda loved it. As a terran player there's something special about watching a nexus die. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:35 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: yeah saw locusts shred a nexus in like 3 seconds flat... it was ridiculous, like there was no way to save it once the locusts were spawned Yes, but they also travelled like 10seconds after being spawned from a ground unit that first had to travel by land to a location that is pretty specific to that maps natural expansion and wait for a 60 cooldown to reset. In the time it took the hosts to wait and spawn and the locusts to travel 20mutalisks would have done the same thing to that location with less risks during traveling and without being combatincapable for 60seconds afterwards. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
In the time it took the hosts to wait and spawn and the locusts to travel 20mutalisks would have done the same thing to that location with less risks during traveling and without being combatincapable for 60seconds afterwards. These Swarm Hosts will be absolutely impossible to balance as you cannot have a unit that only does something every 60th second. And it can still stay safely away from battle, so there is no unit vs unit interaction here. I don't think it will make it into beta. Also, it has an upgrade to burrow while spawning? Why exactly would that be useful. Kinda feels like a lastminute change. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:44 ineversmile wrote: It seemed like every time David Kim was asked a question, he just answered with a pre-programmed response. We might as well have had a robot up there answering questions. Welcome to modern PR | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:43 Hider wrote: These Swarm Hosts will be absolutely impossible to balance as you cannot have a unit that only does something every 60th second. And it can still stay safely away from battle, so there is no unit vs unit interaction here. I don't think it will make it into beta. Also, it has an upgrade to burrow while spawning? Why exactly would that be useful. Kinda feels like a lastminute change. The new swarm host fails the first question I ask of a unit: What purpose does it have that cannot be fullfilled by another unit better; i.e. why would I ever build that unit? And then of course you are completely right the interactions are still horrible. It's not fun to use a unit and then have it 60seconds sit afk and defenseless. While the best interaction method for the opponent with locusts is to still just not interact with them, because they're still free units. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:44 ineversmile wrote: It seemed like every time David Kim was asked a question, he just answered with a pre-programmed response. We might as well have had a robot up there answering questions. I think people are too hard on Kim in general. He seemed extremely candid to me, not programmed. He's not a pro and he knows it. Has there been a StarCraft reveal ever in which they invite actual pros to put it through the ringer on the exact same day? I mean, Kim answered most of the questions satisfactorily while admitting that everything was subject to change. And the icing on the cake is that they're trying to break their own game right out of the gate by having MC, Polt, Jaedong, and Hyun test it over a public stream. Imagine you were the spokesperson in charge of giving official Blizzard input on a day like that. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:55 Tenks wrote: People are also ignoring the fact that LotV clearly puts more micro possibilities into player's hands. And now they have two of the best players in the world playing the game together so someone can freely just sit and babysit their cyclones with perfect micro which may not play out that way in a real game due to being forced to macro behind all this micro. IMO everyone is way overreacting to some of this omg imba stuff. You're kidding, people will be able to do that and macro all they have to do is click and pull back, the range/speed is enough to make it simple and allow them time to macro. The fact that in the first game 2 cyclones got combined 64 kills on Roaches/Hydra/Lurker/Corrupter ect makes them seem really op. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:01 Ovid wrote: You're kidding, people will be able to do that and macro all they have to do is click and pull back, the range/speed is enough to make it simple and allow them time to macro. The fact that in the first game 2 cyclones got combined 64 kills on Roaches/Hydra/Lurker/Corrupter ect makes them seem really op. Yes, ofc, terran players are rarely looking at their base anyway. All focus is on microing/babysitting units anyway. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:01 Ovid wrote: You're kidding, people will be able to do that and macro all they have to do is click and pull back, the range/speed is enough to make it simple and allow them time to macro. The fact that in the first game 2 cyclones got combined 64 kills on Roaches/Hydra/Lurker/Corrupter ect makes them seem really op. Throwing slow roaches and Ravager shots at them is obviously not the way to deal with them. 10 speedlings and they would have been toast. This wasn't a real game, it was a showmatch with people fucking around with new units. | ||
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:09 SmileZerg wrote: Throwing slow roaches and Ravager shots at them is obviously not the way to deal with them. 10 speedlings and they would have been toast. This wasn't a real game, it was a showmatch with people fucking around with new units. Did you see the protoss game? How do they deal with it? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:09 SmileZerg wrote: Throwing slow roaches and Ravager shots at them is obviously not the way to deal with them. 10 speedlings and they would have been toast. This wasn't a real game, it was a showmatch with people fucking around with new units. but then its just another hardcounter which we didn't want anymore of! Another unit that just says: build X or you die. If you build X, it can easily kill it and he dies! | ||
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Tileks
Brazil74 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:55 Tenks wrote: People are also ignoring the fact that LotV clearly puts more micro possibilities into player's hands. And now they have two of the best players in the world playing the game together so someone can freely just sit and babysit their cyclones with perfect micro which may not play out that way in a real game due to being forced to macro behind all this micro. IMO everyone is way overreacting to some of this omg imba stuff. That's the reason I think the Banshee's changes will stay, people will learn to defend. But the cyclone is way more extreme. I hope the unit is reworked and not removed. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:10 Tileks wrote: That's the reason I think the Banshee's changes will stay, people will learn to defend. But the cyclone is way more extreme. I hope the unit is reworked and not removed. I hope it's removed. I don't see which role it fulfills that already existing units couldn't fulfill. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
You shouldn't be able to kill a stalker in 5 seconds with a single move command. Increasing that to 15 seconds means more dancing, greater chance of dying, and potentially forgetting macro. I like the unit, but I think we want to start there. EDIT: typo. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:10 Ovid wrote: Did you see the protoss game? How do they deal with it? Forcefield, Blink, Phoenix lift, Stasis Wards? And I'm not saying the Cyclone isn't OP right now but all it needs is a small damage nerf and maybe something else (longer lock-on time?). The people crying for it to be removed are ridiculous. | ||
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Riski
France15 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
I wouldn't be shocked if they made it so the unit can't hit air though | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:33 Superbanana wrote: Indeed! And i do like the direction they are going with unit design. BUT there is a crucial mistake they absolutely must fix. Terran is getting early and mid-game buffs, zerg mid-late game buffs and protoss... early game nerfs and a strange robo unit. They should think again about some stuff XD, its not just about tweaking the numbers. Immortal nerfed. Planetary Nexus can't attack air. Forcefields nerfed. Warping in nerfed. Tempest gets super lategame upgrade. Oracle and single new Protoss unit gimmickiness is where we can rest all our hope so far in this Protoss expansion. Warp Prism micro made easier but not really more effective. Other races get super beefed early and mid game stuff. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:15 SmileZerg wrote: Forcefield, Blink, Phoenix lift, Stasis Wards? And I'm not saying the Cyclone isn't OP right now but all it needs is a small damage nerf and maybe something else (longer lock-on time?). The people crying for it to be removed are ridiculous. It needs less range, e.g. like 4-5 to initiate and 8-9 at most. Currently it is like 6-12 or 6-13 (with an upgrade that makes it 9-13). Longer lock-on time might be cool as well, so it cannot jump from unit to unit and kill each of them but there was a drawback if you targeted wrong (e.g. a zergling instead of a roach). The dps is high but that's not such a problem I think. But as long as you cannot touch it unless you build its hardcounters it makes it very boring and limiting to play against. | ||
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:15 SmileZerg wrote: Forcefield, Blink, Phoenix lift, Stasis Wards? And I'm not saying the Cyclone isn't OP right now but all it needs is a small damage nerf and maybe something else (longer lock-on time?). The people crying for it to be removed are ridiculous. Don't get me wrong I love what they're trying it's the whole point of beta to make it more inline with reason but my major complaint with the Cyclone is that it's Pseudo Micro in reality it's clicking on a unit and then moving, not hard not much thought involved part of the reason is the huge range, if it had shorter ranged it would require so much more micro to be strong, it also needs to melt things slower. I'm not a balance designer nor a pro so I won't comment on how they should go with it. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
And then if merc+cyclone can zerglings/roaches etc. So its a 2v2 battle. It can be fun. Dont think its realistic at all from blizzard to change the hardcounter in this game.. Look at colossus, its sitll in the game barely touched for crying out loud? | ||
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:20 Big J wrote: It needs less range, e.g. like 4-5 to initiate and 8-9 at most. Currently it is like 6-12 or 6-13 (with an upgrade that makes it 9-13). Longer lock-on time might be cool as well, so it cannot jump from unit to unit and kill each of them but there was a drawback if you targeted wrong (e.g. a zergling instead of a roach). The dps is high but that's not such a problem I think. But as long as you cannot touch it unless you build its hardcounters it makes it very boring and limiting to play against. It starts at 6 range then goes to 9. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:15 SmileZerg wrote: Forcefield, Blink, Phoenix lift, Stasis Wards? And I'm not saying the Cyclone isn't OP right now but all it needs is a small damage nerf and maybe something else (longer lock-on time?). The people crying for it to be removed are ridiculous. From the limited games viewed it appeared like Stargate was almost required in TvP. Toss was having issues shutting down cyclones and tank harass and both of which would be shut down pretty heavily by stalkers and phoenix. I'll be interested to see how it all plays out. Obviously if the Terran opens rax you don't want the gate but it appears like if he goes fact after rax is when the stargate becomes a really strong investment. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
that's what I meant. but it has like 13leash range, right? so even if you move away from the cyclone, it will keep on attacking you long beyond 6range. So microing against it doesn't work, because even if you try to disengage after you have been locked as target, you are still going to take incredibly amounts of damage. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cTVkbqS.jpg) | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:18 Cloak wrote: Immortal nerfed. Planetary Nexus can't attack air. Forcefields nerfed. Warping in nerfed. Tempest gets super lategame upgrade. Oracle and single new Protoss unit gimmickiness is where we can rest all our hope so far in this Protoss expansion. Warp Prism micro made easier but not really more effective. Other races get super beefed early and mid game stuff. You forgot that Carriers are ungodly untouchable war machines of death. EDIT: And the Immortal change is not a straight nerf, either. Hardened Shields are now less useful against a few units but actually do something vs ALL units now. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:30 SmileZerg wrote: You forgot that Carriers are ungodly untouchable war machines of death. EDIT: And the Immortal change is not a straight nerf, either. Hardened Shields are now less useful against a few units but actually do something vs ALL units now. I'm reluctant on Carrier's future viability, it just sounds great on paper and even if it is broken, it will be the first unit to be reverted to its original form and left to rot. The Immortal verdict is still out but something tells me a "strong passive" changed to a "middling active" might be a nerf, and it's another spell for Protoss which already has to manage so many spellcasters. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
I'm reluctant on Carrier's future viability, it just sounds great on paper and even if it is broken, it will be the first unit to be reverted to its original form and left to rot. The Immortal verdict is still out but something tells me a "strong passive" changed to a "middling active" might be a nerf, and it's another spell for Protoss which already has to manage so many spellcasters. The Carrier seems ridiculously good now. Why be reluctant about its viability when it has clearly been buffed? I'm on the fence about Immortals too, but I think overall its a decent change. The only thing that concerns me is that in the changes video, clearly all 4 of those Immortals were going to die. Against what, 6 tanks? If that's true, that's horrible, but I'm willing to wait and see. And Protoss isn't the only race to get new abilities. Herc and Ravager are activated abilities too. Protoss is already referred to as an a-move race, and while that reputation isn't really deserved, it would be wrong to pretend that another spellcaster is a burden. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:06 CoraBlue wrote: The Carrier seems ridiculously good now. Why be reluctant about its viability when it has clearly been buffed? I'm on the fence about Immortals too, but I think overall its a decent change. The only thing that concerns me is that in the changes video, clearly all 4 of those Immortals were going to die. Against what, 6 tanks? If that's true, that's horrible, but I'm willing to wait and see. And Protoss isn't the only race to get new abilities. Herc and Ravager are activated abilities too. Protoss is already referred to as an a-move race, and while that reputation isn't really deserved, it would be wrong to pretend that another spellcaster is a burden. 4 Immortals walking up a ramp into 6 sieged tanks sounds like they should die .... The Immortal being the "no tanks for you" unit in TvP was always terrible. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:10 Tenks wrote: 4 Immortals walking up a ramp into 6 sieged tanks sounds like they should die .... The Immortal being the "no tanks for you" unit in TvP was always terrible. I think that's debatable, but like I said, I'm open to the change. 900/700 of tanks versus 1000/400 of the unit that's supposed to be a counter? Protoss siege range needs an upgrade. Tanks just get it. So while I see what you're saying, we might find out that Protoss doesn't have an effective counter to tanks that can be medivac'd around WAY outside of Immortal range at that stage of the game. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:17 CoraBlue wrote: I think that's debatable, but like I said, I'm open to the change. 900/700 of tanks versus 1000/400 of the unit that's supposed to be a counter? Protoss siege range needs an upgrade. Tanks just get it. So while I see what you're saying, we might find out that Protoss doesn't have an effective counter to tanks that can be medivac'd around WAY outside of Immortal range at that stage of the game. Hmm. The video in the "protoss video" i think its 5-6 immortals vs 3-4 tanks? The immortals have 3left after that fight. He even says "immortal are now counters and not hardcounters" | ||
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Jevity
United States67 Posts
On November 09 2014 05:18 Tenks wrote: I think a cannon at the ramp would do wonders as well against the unit I wouldn't be shocked if they made it so the unit can't hit air though I feel like it would be better if this unit were redesigned for mainly antiair. | ||
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CoraBlue
United States24 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:22 Foxxan wrote: Hmm. The video in the "protoss video" i think its 5-6 immortals vs 3-4 tanks? The immortals have 3left after that fight. He even says "immortal are now counters and not hardcounters" No, you've got it backwards. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:24 Jevity wrote: I feel like it would be better if this unit were redesigned for mainly antiair. So a goliath riding a vulture? | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:19 Espers wrote: why would I ever harass with this Swarm Host instead of using the more versatile Mutalisk? seems like such an overlap. Mutas need a spire. Depending on your game plan (and your enemy's tech path), you don't wanna make a spire just to build a harrass unit | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
I'd be fine with this. Gives mech a mobile anti-armor anti-air option without having to rely on Vikings or a lot of Thors. It would need to be nerfed vs ground though. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On November 09 2014 07:00 MrMotionPicture wrote: I wonder if cannon rush is still viable though. Will cheeses (2rax/"12pool") be effective now? I think 2rax is nerfed a bit because you have to make your depot on 12 while immediately sending out 2 workers to make raxes. I don't know if the timing is there. I don't see how 12pool would work. You'd be very larvae limited I'd imagine to be able to make enough lings to justify the rush. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:40 Leviance wrote: Mutas need a spire. Depending on your game plan (and your enemy's tech path), you don't wanna make a spire just to build a harrass unit You usually need a spire anyways. With all the mobility LotV ramps upons HotS mobility buffs it sounds like you are going to require a spire more than ever. And the SH requires an upgrade that costs 100/100 to 200/200. So regardless of your gameplan, going SHs and going Mutas should cost you the same and with proper planing you will have the spire at any timing you think about harass units. On November 09 2014 07:33 Tenks wrote: I think 2rax is nerfed a bit because you have to make your depot on 12 while immediately sending out 2 workers to make raxes. I don't know if the timing is there. I don't see how 12pool would work. You'd be very larvae limited I'd imagine to be able to make enough lings to justify the rush. 12gas/12pool ling/bling allin | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:17 CoraBlue wrote: I think that's debatable, but like I said, I'm open to the change. 900/700 of tanks versus 1000/400 of the unit that's supposed to be a counter? Protoss siege range needs an upgrade. Tanks just get it. So while I see what you're saying, we might find out that Protoss doesn't have an effective counter to tanks that can be medivac'd around WAY outside of Immortal range at that stage of the game. I said it before but I think the way, at least in this build of LotV, for TvP is open Oracle every game. If the Terran opens Rax into Fact you need to prepare for either cyclones, tanks w/ medivacs or banshee. A great counter to all these? Phoenix. The Phoenix can pick up the cyclone and stalkers (or more phoenix) can kill it. A medivac can't live forever against phoenix and of course banshees get disintegrated. Plus Hercs will die to the opener as well. At least in the games with Mc/Hyun and Polt/Soo that seemed to be the way to counter what they were doing. And I've always despised super hard counters in SC2 and the Immortal was completely suffocating innovation in Terran gameplay because tanks simply could not be used reliably outside of early timings | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Cyclones are incredibly powerful early on, having the unapgraded range be shorter might solve it. Hercs seem pretty good as well, could be a little overpowered against banelings. Tank drops are ridiculous in their current state, a tech lab upgrade to allow medivacs to do it might help tone it down a bit. New protoss unit could have reaver like harass potential combined with new prism. Oracle opening is safer than ever with stasis traps. Ravager pushes will force terrans into cyclones since SCVs repairing is not an option against them. Lurkers are looking sick against bio and hercs, but our Cyclone overlords won't let them see much light as it is. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Or only get maps with small ramps for both main and natural but that would impact other matchups too | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I know I wasn't the only person walking away from that saying "I hope this is all radically different after beta" and not "I'm so excited for the new units in LotV" [Honestly, imagine if you just read the unit descriptions and not seen them in actual play. Now compare that to how you felt after MC/HyuN] | ||
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
Are there VODS of the finals? | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On November 09 2014 15:41 Highways wrote: Who won the showmatch? Are there VODS of the finals? http://www.twitch.tv/wcs/popout?videoId=a586616971 | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 09 2014 15:41 Highways wrote: Who won the showmatch? Are there VODS of the finals? MC and HyuN won 3-0 easily. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Mambo
Denmark1338 Posts
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fenix404
United States305 Posts
the other bo1 with stardust and jjakji was on the wcs youtube channel under "exhibition". that's it, unfortunately. | ||
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ClueClueClue
Sweden1203 Posts
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
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ClueClueClue
Sweden1203 Posts
On November 11 2014 19:50 Tzyx wrote: Swarm Hosts should spawn larva instead of those mental locusts lol, there'd be a use for them then This is actually a really cool idea! The host could be a little bit more expensive and work as a portable hatchery, which would make zerg proxied reinforcements a thing. Or maybe you could load it up with already existing units and catapult them out over a wall of forcefields, up a ramp or behind an army to create a surround. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 09 2014 06:06 CoraBlue wrote: The Carrier seems ridiculously good now. Why be reluctant about its viability when it has clearly been buffed? I'm on the fence about Immortals too, but I think overall its a decent change. The only thing that concerns me is that in the changes video, clearly all 4 of those Immortals were going to die. Against what, 6 tanks? If that's true, that's horrible, but I'm willing to wait and see. And Protoss isn't the only race to get new abilities. Herc and Ravager are activated abilities too. Protoss is already referred to as an a-move race, and while that reputation isn't really deserved, it would be wrong to pretend that another spellcaster is a burden. The Carrier is also infrequently seen in games due to its inaccessibility and riskiness. My original point is that Protoss got all these early to mid game nerfs, opponent buffs, plus the economy is accelerated leaving Protoss further in the dust. Now is a perfect opportunity to revamp the Gateway units. | ||
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ClueClueClue
Sweden1203 Posts
On November 11 2014 22:44 Cloak wrote: The Carrier is also infrequently seen in games due to its inaccessibility and riskiness. My original point is that Protoss got all these early to mid game nerfs, opponent buffs, plus the economy is accelerated leaving Protoss further in the dust. Now is a perfect opportunity to revamp the Gateway units. How about a stasis ability for the carriers to counter mech and give the unit another function, apart from diverting fire from thors and possibly cyclones? The sentry could be buffed a little when it comes to health and damage too, in order to make gateway compositions stronger in smaller numbers/when forcefields get broken by ravagers. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 11 2014 22:51 ClueClueClue wrote: How about a stasis ability for the carriers to counter mech and give the unit another function, apart from diverting fire from thors and possibly cyclones? The sentry could be buffed a little when it comes to health and damage too, in order to make gateway compositions stronger in smaller numbers/when forcefields get broken by ravagers. I like the idea of buffing the Sentry, FFs are less of a show stopper and for a 100 gas that needs to mean a little more these days. Zealots still seem deficient to me; Zealot Charge is anti-micro and BW Legs were way better to watch. Baseline Zealots were faster in BW too, actually making the basic unit dynamic a little more balanced that it's ever been in SC2. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:16 Cloak wrote: I like the idea of buffing the Sentry, FFs are less of a show stopper and for a 100 gas that needs to mean a little more these days. Zealots still seem deficient to me; Zealot Charge is anti-micro and BW Legs were way better to watch. Baseline Zealots were faster in BW too, actually making the basic unit dynamic a little more balanced that it's ever been in SC2. The sentry seems fine to me. Their FFs are still useful in some situations but not seen everytime, and they provide an ability to scout that is imo unmatched by the other races (hallucinated phoenix). As for Zealot's charge I would love to see it as a manual ability | ||
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ClueClueClue
Sweden1203 Posts
On November 11 2014 23:16 Cloak wrote: I like the idea of buffing the Sentry, FFs are less of a show stopper and for a 100 gas that needs to mean a little more these days. Zealots still seem deficient to me; Zealot Charge is anti-micro and BW Legs were way better to watch. Baseline Zealots were faster in BW too, actually making the basic unit dynamic a little more balanced that it's ever been in SC2. Maybe the upgrade could just affect their regular speed, but to a greater extent, making the zealots about as quick as DT:s when their speed change was being considered. With some more health as well for the unit, we could see some interesting micro on both ends, not allowing the zealots to get super close and good surface area without any control from the protoss. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:38 ClueClueClue wrote: Maybe the upgrade could just affect their regular speed, but to a greater extent, making the zealots about as quick as DT:s when their speed change was being considered. With some more health as well for the unit, we could see some interesting micro on both ends, not allowing the zealots to get super close and good surface area without any control from the protoss. If I remember correctly when they made sure that charging zealot did at least one hit to kiting units, their rationale was to avoid having the zealots kited to death by marauders with the protoss player absolutely unable to do anything. IMO they fixed it in a bad way (making sure the Zealots hit once, but still not requiring any action from the P side). But with your suggestion, I can only imagine the frustration of a protoss player seeing his zealot tank getting kited to death withouth landing a single blow... | ||
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MilkDud
Canada73 Posts
On November 09 2014 01:55 Ramiz1989 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-zFgZyVtYo Even though it isn't on English, it is much better than the first one in my opinion. Showing some crazy stuff. Uugh. Swarmhosts are much worse now. How is a Zerg supposed to deal with the protoss death ball without them? I'd like to see flying locusts be able to attack from the air, and/or hit air units. Lurkers also seems kinda useless. Hopefully Blizzard buffs some things. Oh and ravagers are completely useless vs anything that can move. I can see them useful for breaking static D though. | ||
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ClueClueClue
Sweden1203 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:51 LoneYoShi wrote: If I remember correctly when they made sure that charging zealot did at least one hit to kiting units, their rationale was to avoid having the zealots kited to death by marauders with the protoss player absolutely unable to do anything. IMO they fixed it in a bad way (making sure the Zealots hit once, but still not requiring any action from the P side). But with your suggestion, I can only imagine the frustration of a protoss player seeing his zealot tank getting kited to death withouth landing a single blow... Well, the higher movement speed would also mean that zealots move quicker while affected by concussive shell. Sure, they would still be kiteable, but also better at escaping marauders, since the charge doesn't help out when you're running away from units, rather than towards them. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:51 LoneYoShi wrote: If I remember correctly when they made sure that charging zealot did at least one hit to kiting units, their rationale was to avoid having the zealots kited to death by marauders with the protoss player absolutely unable to do anything. IMO they fixed it in a bad way (making sure the Zealots hit once, but still not requiring any action from the P side). But with your suggestion, I can only imagine the frustration of a protoss player seeing his zealot tank getting kited to death withouth landing a single blow... Well, the speed should be adjusted with concussive in mind or partial snare resistance where Zealots slightly gain on a kiting Marauder but he can escape with full retreat on Stim. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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