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On November 01 2014 08:33 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:33 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:31 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:29 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:26 Dodgin wrote:On November 01 2014 08:25 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:23 ZAiNs wrote:I feel like a lot of people are missing this line: The 16 Players advancing from the RO32 will be compete onsite at a live venue location for the Season Finals event.
It's awesome, nothing will be online in premiere leage anymore and we get real venues back  . uh the ro32 will be online unless i'm not reading this right? On November 01 2014 08:27 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:25 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:23 ZAiNs wrote:I feel like a lot of people are missing this line: The 16 Players advancing from the RO32 will be compete onsite at a live venue location for the Season Finals event.
It's awesome, nothing will be online in premiere leage anymore and we get real venues back . Except for the ro32. And Challenger League. We had offline ro16s already for EU and AM. I'll be happy if they're playing in bigger venues but we're getting fewer offline Starcraft out of this, not more (Not counting the new Korean tournaments which is all good news) "Premier League RO32 Group Stage will be played onsite at the ESL Studios. Four groups will be played in the ESL Burbank studio in the US, and four groups will be played in the ESL Cologne studio in Germany." Soooo are they changing how the seeding for ro32 groups work or are we just cool with a bunch of EU players driving past Cologne to catch a plane to Burbank and vice versa  Pretty sure in the ro32 they regions will still be devided, and the possibility of Scarlett vs Snute for example only exists from the ro16 onwards. Is this you guessing or is that somewhere in Blizzard's announcement? Otherwise that doesn't sound consistent with the idea of unification at all.
No that's just me guessing. That's just how I understood it, since I didn't think they'd fly europeans to Burbank for the ro32 when there is a studio in cologne.
Edit: I guess that doesn't make sense now that I think about it, since they would have to combine EU (14 players) with one of the 2 player regions and that would just not make sense .
So I guess people will fly a lot for WCS next year :D.
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On November 01 2014 08:26 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:24 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 01 2014 08:20 Dodgin wrote:On November 01 2014 08:19 Tanzklaue wrote:
i love how next year, instead of punishing players for staying in korea, we now punish players for wanting to play outside of korea.
way to go! Korea is not region locked, they can just go to Korea =) or we keep the old system and those stupid lazy koreans can just leave korea and go play outside of korea! I mean, your argument isn't even refuting mine. going to korea might be the only choice left for most koreans, whether they like it or not. that means no more koreans playing outside of the korean ladder, which means all the improvement in gameplayquality we saw from foreign starcraft this year will come to a screeching hault. I'm not refuting an argument =) just saying they can go to Korea since there are way more opportunities now
except if you're korean, then you have only the option of playing in korea and hope to have any kind of success in the harshest, most brutal environment in which only few can even consistently reach the ro16 of a tournament because everything is so volatile and brutal.
that's not how you build a living. it also limits koreans going to weekendtournaments, since travel costs from korea to other countries are way higher than for example traveling from switzerland to germany or sweden.
we will also see way more foreigners high up in the WCS rankings thanks to this, but without actual koreans in their respective regions and only having the occassional weekendtournament with (now presumably much less) korean opposition will lead to them being just complete and utter stompfodder for the koreans that managed to qualify.
I may be doomsaying, but i don't like these changes. a healthy amount of koreans, like WCS EU had, is good for the scene. it helps foreigners, and gives koreans a chance to chase their dreams and see the world and collect experience. we did see what happens if there are too many koreans in a region, and none of them actually play ladder in the region, since there are no teamhouses for them there, thus not developing the scene, but i feel like we should find a middle ground between compelte korean seclution and koreans overrunning a region without contributing to the regions skill development.
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On November 01 2014 08:33 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:21 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:15 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 01 2014 08:14 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 01 2014 08:08 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:05 Zealously wrote:On November 01 2014 08:04 Yorkie wrote:
Well then...I was happy to see big changes after year one, but it sucks that the biggest tournament series in Starcraft is turning into a long term experiment. They really need to nail something down They need to nail something when it's good enough, not rush and settle on something that isn't good. How many more years do you think they have to kick ideas around? WCS works. It is already "good enough." Sure improvements can be made, like the region locking. But these changes are more than improvements, it's a complete overhaul. This game is not in a stage where we can say "Well by 2018 the system will be amazing." I see this as a clear improvement and I have no idea why you would argue against a clear improvement. It sucks that they didn't do this from the beginning, but not sure what the point is of repeating that over and over. Obviously I disagree with you? I don't think we can definitively say that this is a clear improvement. We have to wait and see. And if things aren't a lot better we're back to the drawing board at the end of 2015. I thought your point was that they should stop changing things not that it wasn't an improvement. If you don't think an improvement then by all means think it is a bad idea. Just don't say they shouldn't have done it even if it was an improvement. I don't think they should stop changing things. I just think that completely overhauling the system every November sucks. Making smaller changes like the region lock from earlier this year is a great idea, I just think this massive shift is the wrong way to go about it. If it ends up being a net positive I'll be super happy obviously but for now I'm skeptical about leaving a tried and true system entirely I'm not cerrtain the current system was tried and true. You'd probably need the numbers, amount invested, ROI, salaries, information from leagues like DH, MLG and IEM, overall travel costs, etc.
Well it's tried and not false. I just feel like this year is really hit or miss compared to the old system
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one other aspect is that it leaves more room for weekly cups and smaller tournaments...
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On November 01 2014 08:30 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:29 Boucot wrote:I don't know what to think about that. Oh, ForGG, why didn't you take those bloody french lessons...  He still can't speak French?
Until july 2014, ForGG had a working visa (so the right visa). To renew it, he had to take french lessons but given that he lives with his girlfriend in Germany for around a year now it wasn't possible for him and chose to grab the same visas than HyuN/MC/other GEM guys had.
That sucks because he was the first korean to commit in the foreigner land. Not that I don't understand why Blizzard does that (and I'm rather in favor of those changes) but for a guy that lives in Europe for 2 years and a half now, it would have been nice to see a kind of tolerance.
Anyway, the Ro16>Finals in a live venue is a fucking great news. I've been waiting that for 2 years.
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On November 01 2014 08:31 Faefae wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:30 sharkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:29 Boucot wrote:I don't know what to think about that. Oh, ForGG, why didn't you take those bloody french lessons... He still can't speak French? Well he lived like 2 months in france... Then he lived with his gf in germany
Marry her, get citizenship, win unified PL \o/
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I think foreign scene doomsayers are missing that we may very well have an all foreigner finals of a premier event several times in 2015. Assuming someone snipes polt and violet.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 01 2014 08:37 Yakikorosu wrote:
I think foreign scene doomsayers are missing that we may very well have an all foreigner finals of a premier event several times in 2015. Assuming someone snipes polt and violet.
Even with Polt and Violet, they are fluent in English to the degree that there would be no effective difference. They're so well-liked in the foreign community that few people at all would object to them winning.
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On November 01 2014 08:35 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:26 Dodgin wrote:On November 01 2014 08:24 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 01 2014 08:20 Dodgin wrote:On November 01 2014 08:19 Tanzklaue wrote:
i love how next year, instead of punishing players for staying in korea, we now punish players for wanting to play outside of korea.
way to go! Korea is not region locked, they can just go to Korea =) or we keep the old system and those stupid lazy koreans can just leave korea and go play outside of korea! I mean, your argument isn't even refuting mine. going to korea might be the only choice left for most koreans, whether they like it or not. that means no more koreans playing outside of the korean ladder, which means all the improvement in gameplayquality we saw from foreign starcraft this year will come to a screeching hault. I'm not refuting an argument =) just saying they can go to Korea since there are way more opportunities now except if you're korean, then you have only the option of playing in korea and hope to have any kind of success in the harshest, most brutal environment in which only few can even consistently reach the ro16 of a tournament because everything is so volatile and brutal. that's not how you build a living. it also limits koreans going to weekendtournaments, since travel costs from korea to other countries are way higher than for example traveling from switzerland to germany or sweden. we will also see way more foreigners high up in the WCS rankings thanks to this, but without actual koreans in their respective regions and only having the occassional weekendtournament with (now presumably much less) korean opposition will lead to them being just complete and utter stompfodder for the koreans that managed to qualify. I may be doomsaying, but i don't like these changes. a healthy amount of koreans, like WCS EU had, is good for the scene. it helps foreigners, and gives koreans a chance to chase their dreams and see the world and collect experience. we did see what happens if there are too many koreans in a region, and none of them actually play ladder in the region, since there are no teamhouses for them there, thus not developing the scene, but i feel like we should find a middle ground between compelte korean seclution and koreans overrunning a region without contributing to the regions skill development.
How does a dying scene profit from higher skill level?
In the end it's all about money. You could have the best game in the world and the most skilled players of all time - without viewers and money it is meaningless
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On November 01 2014 08:38 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:37 Yakikorosu wrote:
I think foreign scene doomsayers are missing that we may very well have an all foreigner finals of a premier event several times in 2015. Assuming someone snipes polt and violet. Even with Polt and Violet, they are fluent in English to the degree that there would be no effective difference. They're so well-liked in the foreign community that few people at all would object to them winning.
People would still complain, let's be real. Especially about Violet.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I'm pretty happy I decided to write the global experiment now before the changes.
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On November 01 2014 08:34 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2014 08:33 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:31 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:29 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:26 Dodgin wrote:On November 01 2014 08:25 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:23 ZAiNs wrote:I feel like a lot of people are missing this line: The 16 Players advancing from the RO32 will be compete onsite at a live venue location for the Season Finals event.
It's awesome, nothing will be online in premiere leage anymore and we get real venues back . uh the ro32 will be online unless i'm not reading this right? On November 01 2014 08:27 Yorkie wrote:On November 01 2014 08:25 Musicus wrote:On November 01 2014 08:23 ZAiNs wrote:I feel like a lot of people are missing this line: The 16 Players advancing from the RO32 will be compete onsite at a live venue location for the Season Finals event.
It's awesome, nothing will be online in premiere leage anymore and we get real venues back . Except for the ro32. And Challenger League. We had offline ro16s already for EU and AM. I'll be happy if they're playing in bigger venues but we're getting fewer offline Starcraft out of this, not more (Not counting the new Korean tournaments which is all good news) "Premier League RO32 Group Stage will be played onsite at the ESL Studios. Four groups will be played in the ESL Burbank studio in the US, and four groups will be played in the ESL Cologne studio in Germany." Soooo are they changing how the seeding for ro32 groups work or are we just cool with a bunch of EU players driving past Cologne to catch a plane to Burbank and vice versa Pretty sure in the ro32 they regions will still be devided, and the possibility of Scarlett vs Snute for example only exists from the ro16 onwards. There is no way they can guarantee that. What if more than 16 players in season 2 are from a single region? (EU for example)
Yep you are right, guess players will have to fly a lot for WCS then .
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I don't get why they're still trying to keep up the appearance that Challenger and Premier league are different. Maybe they were in 2013, but with the 2014 and 2015 formats it's basically a big 64-player tournament where you get seeded into the ro64 or ro32 depending on how well you did the previous season. And I'm not particularly enthusiastic about EU getting twice as many spots as NA...
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Last season in WCS NA and EU there were 38 non Koreans and 24 Koreans,assuming that only Violet and Polt will be able to play in those league we'll have almost the same amount of foreigners in Premier but they'll have a lot more chances of win the tournamentes or play in the upper stages of it.
The good non korean pros will be able to make much more money and we'll have 2 great events in Korea (and Proleague)
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Looks like this will be great for the scene. I'm a little sad that my fellow muricans won't be getting as much easy money, but other than that I can't wait!
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The death of death of sc2?
Love live Starcraft 2!
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On November 01 2014 08:44 klipik12 wrote:
I don't get why they're still trying to keep up the appearance that Challenger and Premier league are different. Maybe they were in 2013, but with the 2014 and 2015 formats it's basically a big 64-player tournament where you get seeded into the ro64 or ro32 depending on how well you did the previous season. And I'm not particularly enthusiastic about EU getting twice as many spots as NA...
Not twice... 14 for EU, 10 for NA.
It looks fine to me. Resulat-wise something like twice as much for EU would be okay, but it's hard to evaluate the NA lvl since there is so few NA tourneys
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I assume Parting/Leenock/San can't play for Taiwan? I think the only Koreans in WCS will be Polt and Violet?
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On November 01 2014 08:44 klipik12 wrote:
I don't get why they're still trying to keep up the appearance that Challenger and Premier league are different. Maybe they were in 2013, but with the 2014 and 2015 formats it's basically a big 64-player tournament where you get seeded into the ro64 or ro32 depending on how well you did the previous season. And I'm not particularly enthusiastic about EU getting twice as many spots as NA...
Europe has double the population of North America...
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On November 01 2014 08:44 klipik12 wrote:
I don't get why they're still trying to keep up the appearance that Challenger and Premier league are different. Maybe they were in 2013, but with the 2014 and 2015 formats it's basically a big 64-player tournament where you get seeded into the ro64 or ro32 depending on how well you did the previous season. And I'm not particularly enthusiastic about EU getting twice as many spots as NA...
Wcs Na was Americans + SEA + Asian (Non korean) players = 18 spots,Eu is 14.
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EPT
