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On September 28 2014 21:20 nvrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 18:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On September 28 2014 17:09 nvrs wrote:On September 28 2014 16:10 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm entitled to my opinion that it's idiotic to enable anyone with a Bnet account to dictate a map pool that everyone uses.
If you've stopped playing because you like rush/cheese games, how long will you come back for once Steppes is back out of rotation? If you're nostalgic for Metalopolis, go play a custom on it. Me and friends had a 4 man for fun tournament on old maps, had a good time.
Nothing against the casuals who don't play ladder anymore, but giving those people votes equivalent to people (not me obv) who use it to practice competitively? Not to mention the self-confessed people who vote for the worst possible pool because they see it as funny? I beg to differ, unless SC2 ladder is only about pro play that is and since there is not a chance Blizzard thinks that's the case, they act accordingly. The pros should be the ones that practice on custom maps, or they could have a different ladder. In almost every game I can think of the automated ranked matchmaking is where the competitive-minded play, and customs are for fun fucking around or specific practicing. Your goal may not be pro play, maybe you want to finally push into Masters or finally get out of bronze. Also Blizzard clearly set up WCS with ladder in their thinking, given the map pools are very similar, IMO so that amateur players could practice on ladder and still be familiar with the maps for WCS qualifiers etc. Got any numbers on that claim? How many games on ladder are actually between high Masters / grand Masters players? Still though, the point of the matter is that Blizzard is trying to get more people to play ladder again, after all SC2 ladder activity is nowhere near what it used to be the first couple of years although HOTS was launched just 1.5 years ago. Coming up with a set of "balanced" - well thought out maps that play well with the current meta has not really worked out for them (they have been doing that for many seasons now), one shouldn't blame them for trying something completely different.
This would be interesting to gather some data, but I doubt most games are actually played between casual players, just because most of them don't play more than 5-10 games a season. I'm not sure it's a good idea to try to have them play maybe 20 games this season while serious players could drop from 200+ games to 50ish if the map pool is really disgusting. So overall, I don't think there will actually be more games on ladder this season if the map pool only caters for the casuals.
On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level.
This ! If you're just there to have fun and don't care about your rank/improving... well, why not play customs ? And not the other way.
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no Desert Oasis, Crossfire or Blistering Sands? I am disappointed
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On September 28 2014 21:30 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level. This ! If you're just there to have fun and don't care about your rank/improving... well, why not play customs ? And not the other way.
Well, ladder is the only way to
- quickly find a game
- face opponents that are along your skill level
Organizing yourself in player groups and having set times when you play customs against each others defies the whole point of just playing casually.
However, I do not see what's wrong with fooling around on Overgrowth instead of Steppes of War. It's rather that, on SoW it's not fooling around what you do. You rather demand that your fooling around shouldn't be fooling around but be a serious strategy.
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Northern Ireland26480 Posts
On September 28 2014 22:01 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 21:30 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level. This ! If you're just there to have fun and don't care about your rank/improving... well, why not play customs ? And not the other way. Well, ladder is the only way to - quickly find a game - face opponents that are along your skill level Organizing yourself in player groups and having set times when you play customs against each others defies the whole point of just playing casually. However, I do not see what's wrong with fooling around on Overgrowth instead of Steppes of War. It's rather that, on SoW it's not fooling around what you do. You rather demand that your fooling around shouldn't be fooling around but be a serious strategy.
That's more a result of Blizz screwing up the custom game system/merging unranked and ranked ladder. The unranked ladder experience isn't discernibly different from the ranked so you don't have much leeway in terms of say, resetting your MMR to learn an off-race.
I've said for ages that a bit more map variance could be encouraged, but Steppes? 
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On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level.
but the whole point of ladder is to play against a similar matched opponent to enjoy the game, with customs it's anyone's guess what your opponent will be.
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On September 28 2014 22:01 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 21:30 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level. This ! If you're just there to have fun and don't care about your rank/improving... well, why not play customs ? And not the other way. Well, ladder is the only way to - quickly find a game - face opponents that are along your skill level Organizing yourself in player groups and having set times when you play customs against each others defies the whole point of just playing casually. However, I do not see what's wrong with fooling around on Overgrowth instead of Steppes of War. It's rather that, on SoW it's not fooling around what you do. You rather demand that your fooling around shouldn't be fooling around but be a serious strategy.
couldn't agree more
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Will be fun to play on Xelnaga Caverns and Metalopolis for a bit I suppose. Daybreak will be a good thing, map just seems like a solid addition to any map pool. Then again I am only Diamond and thus there are bigger holes in my game than worrying too much about maps (probably just like the majority of ragers in this thread, but they won't admit it).
I do wonder what pro players think about this map pool change. Balance is on a razor wire in their play and well money and reputation is on the line and I think it's fair to say some of these maps have glaring balance issues.
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On September 29 2014 01:22 Swift118 wrote:
Will be fun to play on Xelnaga Caverns and Metalopolis for a bit I suppose. Daybreak will be a good thing, map just seems like a solid addition to any map pool. Then again I am only Diamond and thus there are bigger holes in my game than worrying too much about maps (probably just like the majority of ragers in this thread, but they won't admit it).
I do wonder what pro players think about this map pool change. Balance is on a razor wire in their play and well money and reputation is on the line and I think it's fair to say some of these maps have glaring balance issues.
Same goes for me really, can't complain about maps when i am lingering at low diamond, or balance in general for the matter of fact. Regarding pros and their training resume, it's gonna hurt them obviously (teamless in particular), but it could also create upsets and more variety in matches which could be a good thing sometimes.
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Netherlands291 Posts
I'm so looking forward to this haha. This will be so funny, crazy and retarded.
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Only voted reason I voted was for Steppes, Xelnaga Caverns, Shattered and Metal. The other maps were just filler votes.
Did they change the spawns on Shattered? Close spawn was the best thing ever  .
LET THE FUN BEGIN
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On September 29 2014 01:22 Swift118 wrote:
Will be fun to play on Xelnaga Caverns and Metalopolis for a bit I suppose. Daybreak will be a good thing, map just seems like a solid addition to any map pool. Then again I am only Diamond and thus there are bigger holes in my game than worrying too much about maps (probably just like the majority of ragers in this thread, but they won't admit it).
I do wonder what pro players think about this map pool change. Balance is on a razor wire in their play and well money and reputation is on the line and I think it's fair to say some of these maps have glaring balance issues.
i keep wondering about pros as well, this is there job and having to play on these crazy maps for a couple month might screw some people. yea you can stay in "shape' by playing on these maps but when the new maps come out for 2015, Idk i just feel it will mess a lot of players ups.
on the other hard you can argue it might level the playing field a bit since no one knows if there going to bring in a all new map pool for the 2015 season, so really the only place to practice is ladder or custom games, and only the truly dedicated will custom game and who knows if it will help since the map might be completely different.
i said this in an earlier post, but ill say it again this could make or break sc2 right now till maybe LOTV, no even joking, on one hand this could bring back alot of players that stop play can come back to see the old maps and realize that games is still great and play, also this could be really good for the game since right now we have a lot of pretty big maps which leans towards more macro play, maybe we start to see a huge shift in meta leading towards more allins, aggro, new pressures, etc so when the new 2015 map pool comes out, it might be a mix of huge macro maps and small rush maps and the meta so crazy that it could be alot of fun.
on the other hand it might push a lot of players away from the game because they play this map pool with steps, xel naga, etc, and zergs dont like it cause they cant expo so alot of them stop playing, protoss cant stand pvp again so they stop playing and terrans are tired of getting allin every game vs toss so they stop playing. and it may sound funny but this is all very possible and might send sc2 down a dark road. all this plus since a lot of pros use ladder to practice, a majority of them stop praciting cause they dont like the map pool and customs are great but sadly i dont think pro use them nearly enough and even then what maps do you practice on this seasons map pool? they might have an all new map pool that makes practicing on this one pointless.
long story short this is a risky, bold, interesting idea from blizzard and might be a great idea or the worst. cant wait to see what happens. also would love to see a pro opinion thing from TL before the maps are picked and one after, to hear there thoughts on this.
and very last sorry for wall of txt started thinking about this and couldnt stop typing lol.
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I dont know why they gave us the options to vote. Some of these maps were terrible and could make it into pool just because a bunch of spectators think its funny to see....idk man idk
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there are no maps you can vote for that don't have balance issues, save for whirlwind and planet s in which case it's still questionable, as planet s has very short rush distance and whirlwind is extremely open.
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On September 30 2014 16:05 Meavis wrote:
there are no maps you can vote for that don't have balance issues, save for whirlwind and planet s in which case it's still questionable, as planet s has very short rush distance and whirlwind is extremely open.
No love for Habitation and Bel'Shir? These two maps seem pretty balanced to me
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habitation station has an explosive rush distance and a very wide open third that isn't exposed to siege or air, not even mentioning the issues of the gold itself.
bel'shir has circle syndrome on top of a limited economy situation.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 28 2014 22:11 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2014 22:01 Big J wrote:On September 28 2014 21:30 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 28 2014 21:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't say ladder is for the too 2% of the playerbase, but the whole existential point of even having a ladder is for those who are competitively minded at some level. This ! If you're just there to have fun and don't care about your rank/improving... well, why not play customs ? And not the other way. Well, ladder is the only way to - quickly find a game - face opponents that are along your skill level Organizing yourself in player groups and having set times when you play customs against each others defies the whole point of just playing casually. However, I do not see what's wrong with fooling around on Overgrowth instead of Steppes of War. It's rather that, on SoW it's not fooling around what you do. You rather demand that your fooling around shouldn't be fooling around but be a serious strategy. That's more a result of Blizz screwing up the custom game system/merging unranked and ranked ladder. The unranked ladder experience isn't discernibly different from the ranked so you don't have much leeway in terms of say, resetting your MMR to learn an off-race. I've said for ages that a bit more map variance could be encouraged, but Steppes?
In fact unranked is worse than ranked, because it matches you with wider range of opponents. I received once a GM player(like 1v1 GM) - I am diamond, a true diamond, I cannot beat master unless (s)he screws up and I usually don't lose against Platinum unless I screw up 
(although Platinum league has the coolest logo of all, because it reminds me Atreides from Dune )
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if xel'naga caverns,steppes of war and metalopolis make it into the pool i'm going to play so much ladder.
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I can't believe people aren't bored to tears of daybreak still
it was in the map pool forever .-.
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Northern Ireland26480 Posts
On September 30 2014 18:31 GTPGlitch wrote:
I can't believe people aren't bored to tears of daybreak still
it was in the map pool forever .-.
I am more scared to see it in an era where Swarmhost play is so popular, given the map architecture and its status as one of the ultimate BL/Infestor maps.
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On September 29 2014 02:29 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2014 01:22 Swift118 wrote:
Will be fun to play on Xelnaga Caverns and Metalopolis for a bit I suppose. Daybreak will be a good thing, map just seems like a solid addition to any map pool. Then again I am only Diamond and thus there are bigger holes in my game than worrying too much about maps (probably just like the majority of ragers in this thread, but they won't admit it).
I do wonder what pro players think about this map pool change. Balance is on a razor wire in their play and well money and reputation is on the line and I think it's fair to say some of these maps have glaring balance issues. i keep wondering about pros as well, this is there job and having to play on these crazy maps for a couple month might screw some people. yea you can stay in "shape' by playing on these maps but when the new maps come out for 2015, Idk i just feel it will mess a lot of players ups.
If anything it helps them. Dealing with bad/weird maps is good practice. Just look at BW, there were a lot of different kind of maps.
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EPT
