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NOTICE: Blizzard has not officially announced any information on visa criteria, and some players are operating under unconfirmed assumptions. |
On September 10 2014 16:58 Incognoto wrote:
Taeja! wow, owning them nerds with so few words.
i notice that the NA pros have paragraphs to write for some reason, unlike the rest. brb finish reading
I guess a big reason is that they speak and write fluent english.
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On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean.
You're accusing the viewers of being idiots.
There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
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It would be great it someone could get a hold of 2 replays from ladder please, one from NA / EU between foreigners, one from KR between Koreans. Cast them both, set up a straw poll on which one is from KR and which one is from NA.
E: I didn't read every post in the thread, however the impression I'm getting is that Catz isn't arguing that foreigners are as good as Koreans. He's arguing that the match quality between top foreigners and top Koreans is pretty much the same.
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On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
The average person is an idiot you know?
Even pros agree that a majority of viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. (There was a discussion going on between carmac, targa and tlo and others I think)
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On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
There's no reason to act offended. He's saying that he himself would have difficulty. It's arrogant and it's absurd to think you or the average viewer know the game better than Catz that you'd so easily be able to.
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On September 10 2014 17:45 Daniri wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position. There's no reason to act offended. He's saying that he himself would have difficulty. It's arrogant and it's absurd to think you or the average viewer know the game better than Catz that you'd so easily be able to.
He takes in the minutia of the differences, such as pointing out the difference between Flash on a bad day and Bunny on a good one, and creates an argument based on it. He has an idea, conjecture is what it really is, and looks for specific instances that support it. Yes it can be argued that it can be hard to distinguish between players at times, depending on circumstance. What he completely ignores - for the sake of the integrity of his argument, though I'm sure it's deliberate and not real ignorance - is the holistic differences that the regions have. I think we can say that, and I'm sure many people will agree here, that it can be hard to distinguish players in certain cases but it would be completely trivial to distinguish quality between WCS AM and GSL.
In this context CatZ's argument is completely irrelevant since the overall quality and value are completely perceptible between WCS AM and GSL. I don't think anyone who has watched more than a season of WCS from each region can ever mistake WCS AM for GSL, even with muted casters, identical overlays and hidden names.
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On September 10 2014 17:19 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position. The average person is an idiot you know? Even pros agree that a majority of viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. (There was a discussion going on between carmac, targa and tlo and others I think)
Idiot is a medical term, just like retard. Most people don't fall into that category. People can be uninformed or ignorant without being stupid. I know jack shit about finger painting techniques, that doesn't make me an idiot.
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It's amazing to me that all these players responded and none of them even mentioned the LCS: the obvious prototype for Blizzard's decision to region lock WCS. For those who don't know the acronym, it's the League of Legends WCS.
It's been said already: Starcraft's audience today largely consists of people who have little interest in the 'home scene,' and who just want to see the best players and the best games. The Sandisk Invitational proved that. For this audience, Blizzard's decision is utterly illogical. It excludes a dozen of the best players in NA, takes away highly coveted foreigner vs. Korean match-ups, and is guaranteed to result in lower quality games.
But Blizzard is looking further than the current audience. They are looking at LoL and Riot's LCS, where despite Korea being just as invincible as they are in Starcraft, millions tune in every week to watch NA and EU players play each other in their respective regions. Where Shoutcraft America failed miserably, NA and EU LCS sustain massive crowds and do not play second-fiddle to OGN, and their profits go to Riot, not KESPA.
Obviously, a great deal of LCS's success comes from the fact that LoL's player base simply outstrip Starcraft's by an order of magnitude. But when you look at the emotional attachment LCS fans have for their regions' teams despite these teams being outclassed by Koreans, and the extent to which they show up and jealously support said teams and players, and it's transparent that Riot has done a vastly greater job at promoting local players and teams, principally by region locking the scene for the bulk of the year and spending that time building up each region's teams' stories and personalities, and inviting each region's audiences to share in the joys, sorrows, and coming-of-age of those teams.
Such a task is infinitely easier when the players and teams are local, and Riot takes full advantage by fixating on narratives that are sympathetic to the audiences of those regions - for example, by telling the 'all-American' back stories of NA pros, by having them constantly speak their hearts out in interviews and reach out to the community, and by tolerating, at times even encouraging, drama between the teams and players.
Skill-wise, Koreans are a class above in both Starcraft and LoL. But whereas Starcraft developed in a direction of 'watching the best players,' which eventually just becomes 'watching the Koreans,' LoL has developed in a direction of both 'watching the best teams' and 'watching the teams in your own region.' That is to say, Starcraft has achieved international appeal while LoL has achieved both international appeal and regional appeal. From Blizzard's perspective, the former is cool, but the latter is awesome, because you don't have to share profits with KESPA, local players are a lot more attractive to local sponsors and media than imports, and the image of the game is vastly improved when it isn't seen as 'just another game only strange Asians play.' And importantly, having a passionate regional audience allows the region to sustain itself - to continue producing new players eager for the love of the fans, who do not have to beat the Koreans in order to achieve career success, which in turn ensures an ample supply of future regional pros instead of a tiny group of internationally competitive pros, shrinking in size every year.
The fact of the matter is, only by analyzing the success of the LCS are Blizzard's actions explicable. Regardless of the opinions of elitists, Riot has raised the bar when it comes to creating a passionate, professional, and sustainable eSport scene for their game. Whatever their faults, and whatever the end skill level of NA/EU pros, when it comes to marketing eSports to NA/EU audiences and creating a product they're able to get behind, Riot has no peer.
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That ship already sailed. SC2 is never going to be as popular as LoL and WCS is never going to be as successful as LCS. The reason why nobody brings it up is because they are not comparable.
The basic context necessary for that success never existed for SC2.
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I think it could be a good idea to let Korea have 4 GSL a year (each of them rewarding the same WCS points as every other WCS). The total WCS points would be similar, but the activity would be increased and the variance decreased, resulting in a fairer distribution of chances and WCS points.
Another idea to boost Korea into WCS rankings is to give WCS points for Proleague wins. I don't know what could be the fair amount, but it could be for example 25 WCS points, so Maru with his 30 wins would gain 750 WCS points. As the best performer is an ok reward I think, just like a tier2 tournament. If you count Playoffs wins it could be a little higher, reserved only for the best performing players. I think overall could be an interesting idea as the players would be not only competing for Proleague rewards but also for WCS points individually in every match, and that would motivate them even more. What do you think?
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On September 10 2014 18:42 Brian333 wrote:
That ship already sailed. SC2 is never going to be as popular as LoL and WCS is never going to be as successful as LCS. The reason why nobody brings it up is because they are not comparable.
The basic context necessary for that success never existed for SC2.
Blizzard obviously does not agree, and keep in mind that WCS is a prototype for future Blizzard eSports, including their own MOBA game.
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Taeja with the brutal honesty! I love Scarlett's response.
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I highly doubt that anyone at Blizzard is delusional enough to think that SC2 will somehow turn the tables on LoL in terms of popularity. Saying they obviously don't agree is a stupid statement. It doesn't take a genius to notice how different the fan bases and landscapes were for SC2 and LoL at their release, during their rise, and how different they continue to be.
As for setting up WCS in advance for Heroes, I don't think they've planned that yet and it's fairly obvious they haven't reached that stage yet. I'm in the Heroes alpha. It's still a very, very long ways off from any such discussion and the pace at which the game is developing doesn't leave me confident it will be a great game for a long while.
If anything, they have a game out right now that would benefit a lot more from having a proper tournament infrastructure legitimizing its status as an e-sport, Hearthstone. If you want to compare games, Hearthstone is much more comparable to LoL.
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This discussion is a bit pointless, numbers don't lie. We'll see how much the viewership will be affected, I'm 100 % sure it will drop significantly.
Will the US/EU players care? No, they will be happy because they will earn more money .
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Canada11044 Posts
Soo thinks that the other regions are just as hard to win as GSL...? Ok.
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Giving points to Proleague might be the best way to compensate KeSPA players who can't attend smaller tournaments due to scheduling conflicts. It could also allocate points in much more even way among larger playerbase (around 4-5 players per team) in contrast to the "top few takes it all" of GSL/WCS.
Lets say a map win in PL grants you 20 points. This would have totaled 11100 points in this year making it almost equivalent of a single WCS tournament. However if we look at the stats for this year most players wouldn't get that much points.
Top 10 this year would have been:
+ Show Spoiler +1. Maru (600 points)
2. herO (520)
3. sOs (500)
4. Flash (460)
5. Rain (420)
6. Bbyong (400)
6. Soulkey (400)
6. Zest (400)
9. RorO (380)
9. PartinG (380)
As you can see this isn't a lot. Taking this into consideration even more points might be reasonable to make the point pool for the best players reflect atleast the structure of a tier 2 event. Naturally other scenarios could also work like giving top X players of each PL round some fixed amount of points. This however would most likely be a top heavy distribution and might tie players to PL even more (we had some players taking breaks this year to go to foreign events).
Thus the problem would be determining what is the right amount of points and how to divide them among the players. Even a small boost might help the very best to reach the finals. Also, from the current rules' point of view we have to remember that PL is not an open league. If I remember correctly to award points they should be accessible to everyone through qualifiers.
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On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
I think it is the job of the commentators to point out extraordinary plays. So even if the average viewer cannot figure out the difference, the caster should be the one doing it for him/her. Of course the caster can always fake it, but that just doesn't feel honest.
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On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 16:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 13:38 dacimvrl wrote:On September 10 2014 11:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:
You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now,
Please explain Shoutcraft TB kindly hosted, please.. so exciting that the viewer count is abysmal, amirite? On September 10 2014 13:08 ROOTCatZ wrote:On September 10 2014 12:56 Wasaru wrote:
Tune into Catz stream everyone.
It's like we're basically watching soulkey! you're also missing the point completely what point is he missing? You said you beat all the top level koreans pretty damn often, name dropping soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG..etc. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and so it's fair to assume that watching you is like watching soulkey? Lol... And if your point that the skill difference is so similar stands true, then why would there be a need for this region lock? And why is every bad foreigner advocating it desperately? Explain that one. not sure you read my post at all, I've said plenty of times koreans are on average better, even much better than forgeiners, there's no debating that, and watching a stream / pov is completely different than watching casted match, I am saying that the difference in skill to a viewer shouldn't be noticeable, I know i'd have trouble myself telling a top forgeiner game from a top korean game if the games were blacked out, like I said in a different post, in sc2 ONE unit can make a huge difference in a fight, go open the unit tester and fight 2 mirror armys, and make one of them have ONE extra unit, by the end of the fight there should be a big difference made by that one unit, the army that had it should have not one but multiple remaining units as the one unit is able to do it's dps throughout the entire duration of the fight, Koreans in general are better mechanically, no argument there, to make things even more basic, if Flash or Soulkey can spend his money faster, drone or scv stack better, rally faster, whatever the case, it's very likely that they'll have more units than most if not all forgeiners, that ONE unit can decide the outcome of a game, a difference as sutile as ONE unit, it can be a VERY consistent difference, but its very sutile non the less, I don't think most people can tell differences this sutile ESPECIALLY in a broadcasted game as opposed to a replay, and I am confident forgeiner strategy is just as good as korean. You're accusing the viewers of being idiots. There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
I watched Happy vs Grubby yesterday. Happy was supply blocked every 30 seconds and Grubby forgot thermal lance for 25 minutes, and that's obviously not the worse of what they did. But hey, the game was "awesome" because it had nukes and shit, right?
What I'm saying is that foreigner games can be entertaining in their sloppy kind of way, but if you're looking for near-perfect plays clashing against one another, look elsewhere.
Edit: And I'm pretty sure Flash would have had 40 supply more than Happy at minute 16-17. Not one unit.
Also, saying that foreigner strategy is as good as korean strategy is a farce. That's like me saying that I drive my bike as well as Hamilton drives his F1. When you're foreigners and didn't put the same amount of effort to perfect mechanics, you don't get to say that you're strategically as good, you just get to die miserably under a swarm of well-controlled units before you got to show that cool game sense. And that's even assuming that foreigners DO have an equal sense of strategy, which I also doubt. It's irrelevant anyway.
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On September 10 2014 19:30 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 17:15 Vindicare605 wrote:
You're accusing the viewers of being idiots.
There's no way around that. We can tell the difference in skill level as spectators, if you don't believe that then that is a problem but it's definitely not anything substantial that I would stand behind in your position.
I think it is the job of the commentators to point out extraordinary plays. So even if the average viewer cannot figure out the difference, the caster should be the one doing it for him/her. Of course the caster can always fake it, but that just doesn't feel honest.
If you paid any attention to the casting you would know this is happening all the time allready.
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Was Happy not Bunny  That would never happen to Bunny I wouldn't have thought, but Happy has this uncanny ability at times to just fall way behind for no reason.
I'm someone who has never disliked watching foreign games, always found it enjoyable. Especially the European scene I've followed closely, so I'm not one of those "I ONLY watch Koreans" omgomgomg people, but yeh I still think it's really easy to tell the difference most of the time :S
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