|
On August 19 2014 21:27 LoneYoShi wrote:
It's funny how the initial question was "would you like to see foreign teams compete in SPL ?" and everyone is answering "do you think it is possible for foreign teams to compete in SPL ?". Guys, as fans it's not our job to think on the "how" and the "why", that's the job of the team and league managers and inside people (even if it's interesting to brainstorm on these kind of questions).
Our only job is this: YES PLEASE, MAKE IT HAPPEN SOMEHOW ! :D
I'd love to see top players compete in SPL and show us amazing games. Players like JD, Snute, Bomber, Innovation, MMA, MC, Jjakji, StarDust, Welmu, Vortix, ForGG, TLO, Polt, Scarlett, Major, etc playing in SPL would be amazing !
Regarding MajOr, I have to say that although ROOT has definitely strengthened recently with the addition of MajOr and SuperNova, I still don't think they have enough quality to be anywhere near competitive in Proleague yet. Besides, they have a massive frat house in Florida so I can't see them relocating to Korea any time soon.
Regarding ForGG, VortiX and you might as well throw Dayshi in there because he's been superb as of late too, I would rank Millenium as more likely than a lot of foreign teams, but even then it's a massive outside shot. Millenium are strong, they seem to always finish solidly mid-table in ATC. But would they be competitive in Proleague? Probably not. Would they even want to compete in Proleague? Again, probably not.
Polt and Jaedong I can see more as mercenaries if they are to compete in Proleague.
Snute and TLO maybe might come over if Team Liquid compete. It would be a massive risk for TL and I reckon they'd only do it with a partnership like they did last time.
Scarlett, MMA and INnoVation I see most likely playing through a rekindled AxiomAcer partnership. I think Team Acer is the foreign team that is most likely to want to compete in Proleague. If they do want to, then whether they go it alone or in a partnership who knows?
That leaves Bomber. Bomber left StarTale to want to compete in foreign tournament scene for Red Bull. If he is to return for Proleague then I think the most likely route there is as a mercenary for StarTale.
|
Without any financial support from the KeSPA side of things, this will not be possible. Korea has a unique training environment, Proleague is 70-80% preparation (well, maybe less, maybe more, but a lot!) and always played offline which forces teams to move to Korea. I can't imagine any team do this.
Also, I think there's only one or two teams able to compete, and that'd be the Axiom/Acer combo. Team Liquid comes close, but I think all they could do is fight the weaker teams like Prime or MVP (who probably won't be that weak next season) for the last place. Snute, Taeja and HerO might be Proleague material, even Bunny might be able to grab some kills if he gets the time to adapt to the environment, but after that? Mana in Proleague? I really like that guy, but I do not think that he'll be able to achieve much there.
So, who's left? EG? Lol. Jaedong can't carry since it's not allkill. Also, Jaedong is declining since a good while, and I really hope to see him depart from EG very soon. He showed amazing skill at times, but not coming close to eg. Flash's level (and remember, Flash has yet to fight to be a consistent Code S terran, he's not that sick at all in individual leagues).
Next up would be mYi. They're concentrating on sending their players to tournaments a lot, just having established a teamhouse located in Europe. Why would they give up that working business model? TB already told about Axiom's problems in engaging Proleague. Millenium, with all due respect, do not have the depth or the skill in their roster to go for it. Acer might be able to do it, though I do not think that they have players that could deal with Proleague besides Innovation, MMA and maybe Scarlett. Sorry, Artur.
Unless KeSPA really pushes the issue with a lot of support, it won't happen. This "opening to the world" seems more like a thing to give KeSPA exposure, leaving foreign teams hold the baby since they will probably be declining.
On the other hand, one could say that KeSPA really tries to open, giving foreign teams the opportunity to play in Proleague and thus pushing their reputation up. Two ways to see things, I tend to go with the 2nd, but I'm not sure yet.
Then again - we saw what happened to EGTL after a year of Proleague participation. Didn't go too well. A foreign team would need one season to experience how playing Proleague in general is. Few people (on foreign) have experiences with such a long-lasting and preparation-heavy teamleague. So, in the 2nd season, a team could start to take care of its flaws, slowly improving, deepening their roster, etc.pp - and in the 3rd season, that team might go for higher targets: instead of "we do not want to finish last", you could go for "we want to be 5th, and maybe we can even qualify for the playoffs as 4th".
The establishment of a truely foreign team in a korean Proleague environment seems impossible to me anyways. The skill gap is just too huge. Can't imagine HasuObs beating herO, or Dayshi beating soO, or Vortix beating TY. Can't think of Heromarine beating Rain. How should Welmu go up against Soulkey? How would Scarlett do against TRUE? Bunny would probably get rekt by Flash. Oh, did I mention Maru already, or sOs? Can you think of Nerchio beating Zest? I can't.
I do not want to say "lol foreigners bad", I really love some (and like most, and hate few) of them. There's no better thing than the Korean vs. Foreigner story line (imagine Sjow beating Life! Shivers!). But - even foreign koreans will have it hard.
|
On August 19 2014 22:22 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 19:06 Crot4le wrote:On August 19 2014 16:53 Sakkreth wrote:
Axiom-Acer
EG-TL
Axiom-Acer:
INnovation +++
MMA ++
Scarlett ++
Nerchio +
Bly
Paranoid
Alicia ++
Crank ++
Heart ++
Ryung ++
Impact ++
EG-TL:
Jaedong +++
HuK +
Suppy
Xenocider
Demuslim
TaeJa +++
HerO +++
Bunny ++
Snute ++
TLO +
MaNa +
Ret +
One plus: Capable of winning some maps
Two pluses: Capable of being in the lineup successfully constantly winning 50%+ matches
Three pluses: Capable to be among top ranked players in proleague.
Both teams would be capable to compete, EGTL are more top heavy, but Axiom-Acer is more balanced, Axiom alone brings pretty muc hviable lineup, acer adds Ace in InNoVation and few other capable players, but mostly substitutes except for MMA. EGTL would have 3 monster players and 2 arguably best foreigners at this point who are more than capable of taking some maps in proleague making it scary 5 player lineup. If AxiomAcer were to partner up again they'd probably leave Nerchio, ParanOid and Bly like last time. Not enough quality and more importantly not enough room in the Axiom teamhouse. Not enough qualitiy lol. Nerchio is a full time student, and only plays as much as is fun. He is one of the most talented players out there, but simply would never have an interest in playing proleague in korea or even full time.
However valid your reason for it is, the reality is that Nerchio, Bly and ParanOid are not on the same level as MMA, INnoVation and Scarlett and that only the latter three would be good enough for Proleague. I don't really think that's a controversial statement to make.
|
So strong united team like EG-TL was totally defeated in the SPL several seasons ago,so it isn't likely for a foreign team go to SPL considering so much cost with so little imput. Besides, SPL doen't permit a on-line game mode I guess due to it's a commercial events with audiences at the studio. 
|
Actually, contrary to my previous statement, i dont think an all star team would work anyways because kespa would have to pay for the pros living expenses.
An interesting option would be for Kespa to help establish a North American proleague and have that link to the Korean proleague, with the top teams of each league going into a playoffs in korea for the finals
|
With the current WCS system, a proleague engagement is a huge risk for most foreign teams and players. I think that international teams, which have lots of Koreans in their rosters would benefit the most from an "open" proleague, because it would allow the Korean players to get some screentime at home. Players like Jaedong still have a huge fanbase in Korea, the whole proleague would surely gain a popularity boost with those guys joining in.
When it comes to cooperations between teams, Axiom-Acer comes to mind immediately, but also smaller teams like myInsanity and Millenium maybe could put together a decent line-up. EG and TL surely would be a nice addition, too, but with their previous experiences in proleague, I doubt that they would join with a huge roster again. You also have to take into consideration that their teams are not as big as they used to be.
I would like to see one or two "western" teams and one additional asian team, preferrably a Taiwanese team. (yoeFW?)
Cool initiative!
|
As much as I would love to see a foreign team like Acer or TL in Pro League. I really worry about the quality of tournaments and team leagues outside of Pro League. We all saw what international travel did the EG/TL(Something other Kespa teams don't have to worry about) in the previous SPL. It wasn't until the very end that we saw that teams potential.
Would these foreign teams be governed as strictly as current Kespa teams are? Does this mean players like Scarlett and Innovation will see significantly less foreign tournaments?
We all want to see Innovation vs Flash/SoulKey or Flash vs Jaedong again. For me though, I think it comes with a very high risk of NOT seeing these players at Dreamhacks or Home Story Cups or Red Bull Battlegrouds and I think that risk is too high. Pro League is a huge commitment and none of us want our favorite foreign teams to half ass it.
As someone who lives on the East Coast US, I can't watch Pro League live. I can watch just about any other Foreign Tournament live which gives me the best chance to catch my favorite non-Kespa players.
|
No, the only players on foreign teams who can be competitive in proleague are Taeja and Innovation. Besides, the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners has only grown since EGTL played in PL, if a foreign team joined they would only be playing Koreans.
|
Get STX to sponsor a team and I'll watch every match.
|
Everyone wants there to be a foreigner team and it certainly would increase viewers(not too much). The only way I see this working out is if higher ranking people got together and had a SELECT few pros invited and if they were all on board then they could try it out. This whole ALL-STAR team idea is in the right ball park but many details need to be kinked out.
|
As somebody wrote in the beginning; in that case it has to be a allstar-team to compete or it won't be good enough.
|
If you could get a group of European's and a group of Korean All-Stars to commit full time to pro-league and training for pro-league I think it would be amazing to watch and great for the scene as a whole. I don't want to see another EG-TL team though where every other week they don't have their best player's available because they are at dreamhack or IEM or WCS EU Round of 16.
This is a perfect world scenario but I think expanding to 12 teams (8 current with ST replacing IM) adding 4 team, Axiom-Acer, Korean Foreign All-Stars, European All-Stars, and either IG or YF. The key to the entire idea though is we want committed teams that are going to train full time, be compensated properly for that time and dedicated to pro-league. I think a good way to do this would be to keep the schedule at 4 matches per night and put in built in bye weeks instead of bye games so that the weekend of dreamhack for example the European's and Korean All-Stars can all go to the foreign tournament, still fulfill their obligation to their current teams, and be back the next week to prep for pro-league. This would obviously take careful planning and a financial commitment from Kespa to do it the correct way.
|
On August 19 2014 11:00 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 10:47 Chuddinater wrote:
I hope everyone has enjoyed this season of Proleague as much as we have. There were plenty of exciting matches and the finals will be an event I will remember for the rest of my life, especially FlaSh kicking the soccer ball with the names of the SKT players into the crowd.
Looking forward to the next season of Proleague we want to make it more exciting then it was this year. We are toying with the idea of opening Proleague to the world. If we did open up Proleague next year to all teams which teams would you be most excited to watch? Do you think if we allowed foreign teams to enter would it lower the competitive level or increase it? Obviously the foreign teams who are most qualified are Evil Geniuses, TeamLiquid, Acer, Axiom, and some of the big Chinese/Taiwanese teams. While in the short term, opening Proleague up might slightly decrease the average skill level, I think that it will dramatically increase it in the long-term. Think of it as an investment into developing "new blood" that will bring more innovation to drive progress in the Korean scene and that will draw more money and sponsorship by expanding Proleague's appeal outside of Korea. Edit: Who knows, maybe it would be incentive enough for some established teams from other games (LoL, DOTA2, CS:GO, etc...) to create SC2 squads or even for new non-Korean teams to form. Edit #2: Also, why the hell is everyone assuming that KeSPA wouldn't help reduce the financial barrier. Seems like them even considering opening things up marks a very large attitude shift from KeSPA compared to when EG-TL tried to compete. It isn't a stretch to think that the traditional buy in price would be heavily reduced or that the chosen team(s) would receive monetary and logistical help to make it more viable.TL'DR, while there might be some short term disadvantages and costs, its pretty hard to argue that it is the wrong move for either Starcraft or Korean eSports.
How are they going to play though? Because it sounds like next Proleague is going to be an online tournament if they open it up to international teams. It's next to impossible for foreign teams to all stay in Korea just for Proleague.
|
An alliance of the best foreigners that are actually willing to re-locate to Korea is what I would like to see. And Startale!
Honestly though I think there are only a few people that could compete without lowering the competitive level, especially if you only consider non Koreans.
|
On August 19 2014 21:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 21:54 Rustug wrote:
EG-TL wasn't an epic fail.
They were a new team in ProLeague. Proleague is really hard.
Them quitting after one season was a bit of a disappointment. Considering what was expected from team with people destroying in 2012 and team, which got even more stable Koreans, it was huge flop.
The EG-TL weren't destroying KESPA players back in 2012. They destroyed eSF and Foreigners.
|
Honestly speaking, unless the new created team dedicated all of their time on PL, this won't succeed as they will be the new punching bag.
Only guy that is worthy enough for PL:
A team:
Jaedong
Bogus
MC
Innovaction
HerO
B-team:
Jjaki
MMA
San
ForGG
Hyun
And those players will have other tournament to focus on. I think sure it could increase the view count due to the novelty factor but you have to ask yourself which one is more important, the viewership or the game's quality.
|
Make a qualifier like for the Champions league in soccer (Proleague is the equivalent) and only let the best teams in. Otherwise Korean teams will crush them and not many ppl will be interested in watching.
|
On August 19 2014 17:17 Chuddinater wrote:
Looking forward to the next season of Proleague we want to make it more exciting then it was this year. We are toying with the idea of opening Proleague to the world. If we did open up Proleague next year to all teams which teams would you be most excited to watch? Do you think if we allowed foreign teams to enter would it lower the competitive level or increase it?
Team Liquid and Team Acer. It depends which foreign teams would be invited, but I think in 95% of the cases it would lower the competitive level.
|
On August 19 2014 23:48 iamho wrote:
No, the only players on foreign teams who can be competitive in proleague are Taeja and Innovation. Besides, the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners has only grown since EGTL played in PL, if a foreign team joined they would only be playing Koreans.
Jaedong
Bomber
Polt
Stardust
MC
Impact
Scarlett
Sacsri
Jjaki
Hero
Supernova
Violet
Hyun
Ryung
Probably only a handful would be interested though.
I think Snute, Bunny, and Nercio would all do ok with proper dedication also. Stephano went like 5-4 in proleague when all accounts show that he basically showed up to Korea to party and didn't really practice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
