EPTOn August 15 2014 06:31 Seeker wrote:
Everyone on TL needs to adopt this as their quote like right now.
Everyone on TL needs to adopt this as their quote like right now.
Haha so true.
Lauren Elise returns to StarCraft! - Page 8
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ZeromuS
Canada13430 Posts
Haha so true. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
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meshfusion
Russian Federation232 Posts
On August 14 2014 06:59 Yrr wrote: This video is blocked in Germany due to GEMA... it's because it uses the music from the superman Movie done by Hans Zimmer: | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 15 2014 06:37 Wombat_NI wrote: Best of luck, couldn't be bothered saying anything even vaguely critical because like, that'd be sexist and stuff right? I don't think so, my sweet Wombat. I've harshly criticized male and female figures of SC2 alike and usually it goes through smoothly if it's fair and constructive. However as you accurately point out, you'll occasionally be accused of sexism. But that's because frankly, there's a lot of sexism going around and that's hard to deny, and people get confused about who's sexist and who's not among all the noise. You can just look at this thread. It's not always easy to tell who's a dick and who's not. Luckily I'm not afraid of the flak so I'll speak my mind when/if I have something to say but I don't recall ever seeing anything of this girl so I'll wait and see. We've had some really good female hosts though and she seems to have been appreciated by many. Rachel Quirico (was it?) was good, Smix is always excellent and professional, and we've had many others. So let's wait and see. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On August 15 2014 07:10 Djzapz wrote: I don't think so, my sweet Wombat. I've harshly criticized male and female figures of SC2 alike and usually it goes through smoothly if it's fair and constructive. However as you accurately point out, you'll occasionally be accused of sexism. But that's because frankly, there's a lot of sexism going around and that's hard to deny, and people get confused about who's sexist and who's not among all the noise. You can just look at this thread. It's not always easy to tell who's a dick and who's not. Luckily I'm not afraid of the flak so I'll speak my mind when/if I have something to say but I don't recall ever seeing anything of this girl so I'll wait and see. We've had some really good female hosts though and she seems to have been appreciated by many. Rachel Quirico (was it?) was good, Smix is always excellent and professional, and we've had many others. So let's wait and see. yea i dont think theres anything confusing or unfair about it for example: the guy who said he has trouble taking female figures seriously because some of them are brought in for looks rather than game knowledge? i don't think he was sexist, maybe misguided in his criticism, but he was making a valid point about how he feels it affects the quality of productions, and he made an effort to be respectful the people bringing up the morality of "selling your body" or implying that she's stupid/unethical because being pretty helps her make money? yes, i think that's dumb and deserves to be called out. personally i dont like using the word "sexist" because words like "sexist" and "racist" carry a heavily charged connotation of "PC policing" and tend to set people off. i prefer to just call dumb posts dumb and wrong ideas wrong | ||
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
On August 15 2014 07:25 brickrd wrote: yea i dont think theres anything confusing or unfair about it for example: the guy who said he has trouble taking female figures seriously because some of them are brought in for looks rather than game knowledge? i don't think he was sexist, maybe misguided in his criticism, but he was making a valid point about how he feels it affects the quality of productions, and he made an effort to be respectful the people bringing up the morality of "selling your body" or implying that she's stupid/unethical because being pretty helps her make money? yes, i think that's dumb and deserves to be called out. personally i dont like using the word "sexist" because words like "sexist" and "racist" carry a heavily charged connotation of "PC policing" and tend to set people off. i prefer to just call dumb posts dumb and wrong ideas wrong You gotta call a spade a spade. It's not hard to spot the pubescent confused teenagers in these forums and calling them out will hopefully help them in life. Either you grow out of it and end up a happy person capable of good relationships with both sexes or you end up a miserable old lonely coot with a silicon doll. I don't want to argue the finer points of what is or what isn't sexism but give me a fucking break if you can't see how grossly inappropriate some of these comments have been. People get banned for posting benign stuff like "protoss OP lol" and yet people saying things that would get you a sued for harassment or discrimination in a court of law is OK because we're a bunch of young men. Why don't we as a community grow the fuck up and not stand for this? We're a marginalized group ourselves and yet the first chance we get to judge someone based on looks, sex, gender etc we jump at. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 15 2014 07:52 caznitch wrote: You gotta call a spade a spade. It's not hard to spot the pubescent confused teenagers in these forums and calling them out will hopefully help them in life. Either you grow out of it and end up a happy person capable of good relationships with both sexes or you end up a miserable old lonely coot with a silicon doll. I don't want to argue the finer points of what is or what isn't sexism but give me a fucking break if you can't see how grossly inappropriate some of these comments have been. People get banned for posting benign stuff like "protoss OP lol" and yet people saying things that would get you a sued for harassment or discrimination in a court of law is OK because we're a bunch of young men. Why don't we as a community grow the fuck up and not stand for this? We're a marginalized group ourselves and yet the first chance we get to judge someone based on looks, sex, gender etc we jump at. im curious which posts would get you "sued for harassment or discrimination in a court of law" since the thread has seemed pretty mild so far. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
 To me the point of distinction is not that she personally is unethical to utilise her looks to get ahead in life, but that such a pathway exemplifies that sexism and objectification exist. To deny that these kind of gigs aren't due in some way to a certain cultural framework is silly IMO. There's also no doubt a bunch of pseudo psych behind it, namely a bitterness among people who were ostracised by pretty girls at school or w/e for being nerds taking that angst from their youth at current incarnations of those same girls into their niche space. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On August 15 2014 04:15 TigerKarl wrote: i'd prefer watching her nude Videos if she was hot. Hey, look at this stud! He only selects the hottest girls from the vista of his computer screen! On August 15 2014 07:52 caznitch wrote: You gotta call a spade a spade. It's not hard to spot the pubescent confused teenagers in these forums and calling them out will hopefully help them in life. Either you grow out of it and end up a happy person capable of good relationships with both sexes or you end up a miserable old lonely coot with a silicon doll. I don't want to argue the finer points of what is or what isn't sexism but give me a fucking break if you can't see how grossly inappropriate some of these comments have been. People get banned for posting benign stuff like "protoss OP lol" and yet people saying things that would get you a sued for harassment or discrimination in a court of law is OK because we're a bunch of young men. Why don't we as a community grow the fuck up and not stand for this? We're a marginalized group ourselves and yet the first chance we get to judge someone based on looks, sex, gender etc we jump at. Marginalized groups are always the quickest to use discrimination. They have great investment in their self-image and will try to dictate their entry barrier with the silliest criteria. The "fake geek girl" meme didn't come out of nowhere. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On August 15 2014 06:35 KalWarkov wrote: guys like you.. shes stunningly hot, live ur nerd dream of perfect girls that dont exist oO that's a matter of taste though. just because you think she's hot and he apparently doesn't doesn't mean he dreams of perfect girls 24/7. then again, who doesn't in some sense. after reading this thread i want Soe back because Soe  | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
This is basically what happened in the lindsey spoorer (sp?) thread, a girl that was only briefly involved in sc2 before leaving. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On August 15 2014 08:38 fishjie wrote: Meh, here's the litmus test, if this person were a male or an unattractive female, would this even be newsworthy at all? There are usually two camps in this type of thread. One are the dudes who get excited that there's a hot female involved in gaming. The other camp are dudes who don't care that she's female and that she's attractive and make fun of the first camp. How are people in the latter group sexist when they disregard her gender and looks and focus solely on what actual value she brings to the scene? This is basically what happened in the lindsey spoorer (sp?) thread, a girl that was only briefly involved in sc2 before leaving. Then there's the other other camp: dudes who care that she's female and assume she brings no "real" value because she's conventionally pretty. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On August 15 2014 08:38 fishjie wrote: How are people in the latter group sexist when they disregard her gender and looks and focus solely on what actual value she brings to the scene? thats not at all the issue tho... the issue is people who immediately make every thread about how "women in starcraft are just there to look pretty". no one is claiming that its sexist to say "i dont like lauren elise because she doesnt know much about starcraft". if that were the only criticism there would be literally no problem ever | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
This would be newsworthy if only because a fairly well liked personality that was a part of NASL during some of it's best times has come back to StarCraft 2 in a role that they performed fairly well in. I'm pretty sure most of the criticism is strongest online - if you saw her at a live event, you'd see the real enthusiasm and interest she shows. Can all of our personalities be High Master/GM? Nope - but they need to have interest, enthusiasm, and passion for the games. Does it matter to me that TotalBiscuit could take me out TvT, but I'm pretty sure I could take down Lauren TvT? Not at all, because that's not what they do - TB isn't likely to go heavy on analysis during commentary, and Lauren isn't going to cast at all - her job is to talk to people. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 15 2014 08:38 fishjie wrote: yeah we had a thread for bitter leaving nasl and stuff, happens all the time, way more often then with women Meh, here's the litmus test, if this person were a male or an unattractive female, would this even be newsworthy at all? There are usually two camps in this type of thread. One are the dudes who get excited that there's a hot female involved in gaming. The other camp are dudes who don't care that she's female and that she's attractive and make fun of the first camp. seems like your rooting for the bullies as opposed to the heterosexual gamers that enjoy a little eye candy. how come? Also there are many more groups like the people that don't like her and aren't rude for no reason, the people that like her as a person, possibly her fans from before her starcraft career, people that can't take women in esports seriously, people that are jealous makes up a big portion tooHow are people in the latter group sexist when they disregard her gender and looks and focus solely on what actual value she brings to the scene? no one said that, what is this part referring to? | ||
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Rho_
United States971 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
I see the levels of backlash being pretty unrelated to gender tbh and more to do with a sense of nerd elitism and defending their own arbitrary ideals of what you should have when entering the scene. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On August 16 2014 02:18 Wombat_NI wrote: How does Bitter = Lauren Elise exactly ComaDose, different roles entirely, I had assumed Fish was referring to equivalent positions/SC know-how etc. I see the levels of backlash being pretty unrelated to gender tbh and more to do with a sense of nerd elitism and defending their own arbitrary ideals of what you should have when entering the scene. It's more a sense of relevance to the topic than misogyny, yeah. Either you are someone with credibility and knowledge of the scene, or you aren't. You could be smoking hot or butt-ugly either way. The feeling that someone got to a position with the sole qualification of being hot can raise some hackles. "Hot" being entirely arbitrary of course, but still. It can also come a cross as slightly insulting to ones' intelligence when you get the impression that a company is trying to appeal to your dick instead of your brain. I tend to steer clear of games that go that route for this very reason. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
Will this help professional gaming grow/legitimizing the competition? I would like to point out Kaci from The International actually took her time to study the game and learn about the community while being decent looking host. Did Lauren Elise put in the effort/time needed to understand the game and learn about the history of its community? Because there are literally 3 other female that I can list on the top of my head that have a good understanding of the game, they are Smix, Suzie Kim, and Anna Prosser. If she acts completely stupid and make stupid judgement and make stupid comments about the game, she should be totally fired and get outraged by the community. But then again, what does it say about the community? Are we all just a bunch of horny teenagers that are pussy whipped? Or are we do have a certain standard for girls to have not only presentable looks but also intelligent enough to talk about the game? Think about that for a second. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On August 16 2014 03:11 Xiphos wrote: I would like to point out Kaci from The International actually took her time to study the game and learn about the community while being decent looking host. Did Lauren Elise put in the effort/time needed to understand the game and learn about the history of its community? Because there are literally 3 other female that I can list on the top of my head that have a good understanding of the game, they are Smix, Suzie Kim, and Anna Prosser. Pretty sure Lauren Elise has played more SC2 (at least 1v1s on stream) than any of the other women you mentioned. (Dota 2 in Kaci's case) | ||
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