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On July 25 2014 02:54 Faust852 wrote:
Protoss complaining about WMs drops in their mineral line is so hilarious and ironic when you know that they have oracles and DTs that are way more efficient then a WM in this situation.
You didn't scout a WM drop but you have an eyes on the minimap ? Maximum probe lost : 1
You didn't scout an oracle but you have an eyes on the minimap ? You lost the game, gg.
You didn't scout a DT drop but you have an eyes on the minimap ? You lost the game, gg.
To be fair, you lose around 3-4 probes per mine. I saw Supernova drop 3 mines and get 10 kills with it this morning against a Protoss who didn't react whatsoever until AFTER the probes were dead. I think post-patch it will be closer to 4-5 probes per mine on average.
But yeah, it mostly requires 3 - 4 mines with a medivac to deal the same amount of damage to a Protoss mineral line as is done by a single oracle, which is a much bigger commitment, comes later, and can be defended much more easily (unless you allow the mines to burrow right away, and then lack of detection can be annoying).
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if they fuck up my zvz i will be so mad. serious i love roach vs roach since beta
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Not looking forward to dealing with strong mines again in ZvT but such is life lol. Just have to work and splitting and ways to use the mines against the Terran scum 
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On July 25 2014 00:49 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 00:36 opisska wrote:
I was away from the internet for a month a came back to this. How is it that the thread is not full of outrage? This buffs widow mines to an absurd extend, doesn't it? It doesn't matter that "Terran weak, halp!" when they buff the unit that was already strong before ... Can please someone explain to me in understandable terms how this patch is acceptable to anyone? It's not; Blizzard buffed Terran when they are already really strong at the moment. A lot of the T posters on this thread are biased against their race[...]
The pot calling the kettle black. Statistically Terran isn't strong at all -- to the point where even TL green-lighted a balance-related publication demonstrating the woeful state of Terran.
Widow mines were in a good place pre-nerf; the balance team over at Blizzard justified the nerf by saying they wanted more tanks in the TvZ match-up, so it was effectively a way to force Terrans into different compositions. Sadly, nerfing widow mines doesn't magically make the tank more viable against the buffed mutalisks, so Terran's been sitting in a period of underwhelming performance. Blizzard is now reverting that nerf, realizing it broke balance and the lack of tanks wasn't just due to widow mines being a better option (although they always will be so long as the mutalisk retains its current stats).
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Would be nice if someone listed what the changes are. I don't see them in the op or in the battle.net thread. I dont even know what's changing
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On July 25 2014 04:24 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Would be nice if someone listed what the changes are. I don't see them in the op or in the battle.net thread. I dont even know what's changing
From: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/14834357/call-to-action-july-17-balance-testing-7-17-2014
We’ve just published a new version of the Balance Test Map to the StarCraft II Custom Games list titled "(2)OvergrowthLE (2.1.3 Balance v1.1)". In this new version, we’ll be testing further changes to the Widow Mine’s splash damage and the Mothership Core’s Time Warp ability. During this testing phase, please keep in mind that none of the changes listed below are final. Our plan is to first explore how each change impacts the game and potentially test additional changes after reviewing your feedback. Let's have a look at the full list of changes you'll be testing in this version:
Terran
Widow Mine
Splash radius is now 1.75. There are no longer 50% or 25% damage zones.
Splash damage is now 40 (+40 Shields) for the full 1.75 splash radius.
Thor
Changed to prioritize their AA weapon over the AG weapon
Protoss
Mothership Core
Time Warp duration decreased from 30 to 10 seconds
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Here is an interesting change to the mine. As we all know, widow mines do not benefit from attack upgrades due to the fact that it inflicts spell damage. What if the widow mine gains an additional range for every attack upgrade? Widow mines have 6 range with +1, 7 range with +2, etc. I think this would widow mines much more viable lategame in TvP.
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On July 25 2014 06:30 Loccstana wrote:
Here is an interesting change to the mine. As we all know, widow mines do not benefit from attack upgrades due to the fact that it inflicts spell damage. What if the widow mine gains an additional range for every attack upgrade? Widow mines have 6 range with +1, 7 range with +2, etc. I think this would widow mines much more viable lategame in TvP.
That would affect TvZ, and it goes against the norm.. (that is, weapon upgrades always only increase damage, not range).
Likely they will just try to balance around 50% winrate, any real changes will be in next expansion, if there are any.
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Why can't they buff the viking or something? Either a buff to the air damage or even ground damage so they are more useful for a counterattack if the Terran wins a fight in late game TvP.
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On July 25 2014 06:30 Loccstana wrote:
Here is an interesting change to the mine. As we all know, widow mines do not benefit from attack upgrades due to the fact that it inflicts spell damage. What if the widow mine gains an additional range for every attack upgrade? Widow mines have 6 range with +1, 7 range with +2, etc. I think this would widow mines much more viable lategame in TvP.
Could do the +1 range at the ebay to include WM, that already increases auto turrets, turrets, pfort, etc.
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On July 25 2014 12:27 Livelovedie wrote:
Why can't they buff the viking or something? Either a buff to the air damage or even ground damage so they are more useful for a counterattack if the Terran wins a fight in late game TvP.
I'd like them reverting the ground damage to 14, in addition to adding one armor for the ground form to help emphasize its concept as an assault walker.
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On July 25 2014 06:50 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 06:30 Loccstana wrote:
Here is an interesting change to the mine. As we all know, widow mines do not benefit from attack upgrades due to the fact that it inflicts spell damage. What if the widow mine gains an additional range for every attack upgrade? Widow mines have 6 range with +1, 7 range with +2, etc. I think this would widow mines much more viable lategame in TvP. That would affect TvZ, and it goes against the norm.. (that is, weapon upgrades always only increase damage, not range). Likely they will just try to balance around 50% winrate, any real changes will be in next expansion, if there are any.
ur right with the 50% thing... u could also see this coz of the ladder map choices since start of hots... they try just to get their stats around 50% so when people ask they can smash their stats right into our faces, and say see its balanced... but well win or loss isnt the only aspect in balance imo. balance is also how much work u need to put into something. i mean im terran and terrans feels a bit harsch in tvz and tvp right now, BUT i dont minded it for a very long time against zerg because they have similar effort they need to put into a game. against protoss in tvp it feels like the terran has to put 100 times more effort in it to win a gam e then the protoss player needs to... just my personal oppinion
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"hmmm, terran is losing to protoss.. i know, lets just buff their lowest attention/APM unit so it's always good in every situation against everything, since Bio just isn't versatile enough"
--Blizzard
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On July 25 2014 12:27 Livelovedie wrote:
Why can't they buff the viking or something? Either a buff to the air damage or even ground damage so they are more useful for a counterattack if the Terran wins a fight in late game TvP.
Yeah, what I'd really like to see are some changes with T anti-air options, as that Thor change feels rather ridiculous, it's just a bulky, expensive must-have, but no-good unit to me.
I've proposed a Valkyrie-upgrade for Vikings made available when fusion core tech hits long time ago and somehow I still like it.
Can cost a bit money so it won't be as easy to rush this out (200/200 maybe?), but it'll give your Vikings a new ability to permanently transform into Valkyries (name it whatever you like), reducing their range to 5-6 or so, but enabling good splash damage (maybe adding rather slow movement speed or making them rather squishy to compensate for their strength).
Another idea to boost Thors in the defending department I had was returning the 250mm Strike Cannon as some sort of AoE spell against flying units, creating a sort-of flak barriage to prevent air from passing through a certain air sector for a limited amount of time (imagine a larger AA-only Storm with 2-3 secs of channeling time, so opponent can react and micro against it).
Thors in their current state aren't microable, they only excel against Mutalisks if the opposing player fucks up with the magic box big time, at least now with the imminent WM revert you can be glad you don't have to build 5-6 of those mofos anymore and can substitute again.
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On July 25 2014 17:25 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 12:27 Livelovedie wrote:
Why can't they buff the viking or something? Either a buff to the air damage or even ground damage so they are more useful for a counterattack if the Terran wins a fight in late game TvP. Yeah, what I'd really like to see are some changes with T anti-air options, as that Thor change feels rather ridiculous, it's just a bulky, expensive must-have, but no-good unit to me. I've proposed a Valkyrie-upgrade for Vikings made available when fusion core tech hits long time ago and somehow I still like it. Can cost a bit money so it won't be as easy to rush this out (200/200 maybe?), but it'll give your Vikings a new ability to permanently transform into Valkyries (name it whatever you like), reducing their range to 5-6 or so, but enabling good splash damage (maybe adding rather slow movement speed or making them rather squishy to compensate for their strength). Another idea to boost Thors in the defending department I had was returning the 250mm Strike Cannon as some sort of AoE spell against flying units, creating a sort-of flak barriage to prevent air from passing through a certain air sector for a limited amount of time (imagine a larger AA-only Storm with 2-3 secs of channeling time, so opponent can react and micro against it). Thors in their current state aren't microable, they only excel against Mutalisks if the opposing player fucks up with the magic box big time, at least now with the imminent WM revert you can be glad you don't have to build 5-6 of those mofos anymore and can substitute again.
Just yesterday I was thinking about a fusion core upgrade to vikings as well actually. I was thinking a +damage to massive though, instead of an entirely new unit. 
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On July 25 2014 18:26 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 17:25 Creager wrote:On July 25 2014 12:27 Livelovedie wrote:
Why can't they buff the viking or something? Either a buff to the air damage or even ground damage so they are more useful for a counterattack if the Terran wins a fight in late game TvP. Yeah, what I'd really like to see are some changes with T anti-air options, as that Thor change feels rather ridiculous, it's just a bulky, expensive must-have, but no-good unit to me. I've proposed a Valkyrie-upgrade for Vikings made available when fusion core tech hits long time ago and somehow I still like it. Can cost a bit money so it won't be as easy to rush this out (200/200 maybe?), but it'll give your Vikings a new ability to permanently transform into Valkyries (name it whatever you like), reducing their range to 5-6 or so, but enabling good splash damage (maybe adding rather slow movement speed or making them rather squishy to compensate for their strength). Another idea to boost Thors in the defending department I had was returning the 250mm Strike Cannon as some sort of AoE spell against flying units, creating a sort-of flak barriage to prevent air from passing through a certain air sector for a limited amount of time (imagine a larger AA-only Storm with 2-3 secs of channeling time, so opponent can react and micro against it). Thors in their current state aren't microable, they only excel against Mutalisks if the opposing player fucks up with the magic box big time, at least now with the imminent WM revert you can be glad you don't have to build 5-6 of those mofos anymore and can substitute again. Just yesterday I was thinking about a fusion core upgrade to vikings as well actually. I was thinking a +damage to massive though, instead of an entirely new unit.
I would imagine this just as an upgraded, visually enhanced Viking, similar to the Hellbat (personal preference on my side, I guess ^^)
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On July 25 2014 17:10 darkscream wrote:
"hmmm, terran is losing to protoss.. i know, lets just buff their lowest attention/APM unit so it's always good in every situation against everything, since Bio just isn't versatile enough"
--Blizzard
I don't see any Hellbat buff in that patch.
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On July 25 2014 17:10 darkscream wrote:
"hmmm, terran is losing to protoss.. i know, lets just buff their lowest attention/APM unit so it's always good in every situation against everything, since Bio just isn't versatile enough"
--Blizzard
Sounds a lot like the old fungal buffs vs everything in WoL. Don't ever change Blizzard... (shhhh, reasoned arguments don't work, I'm giving sarcasm and reverse psychology a try)
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On July 25 2014 17:10 darkscream wrote:
"hmmm, terran is losing to protoss.. i know, lets just buff their lowest attention/APM unit so it's always good in every situation against everything, since Bio just isn't versatile enough"
--Blizzard
The "bio isnt versatile enough" hits the nail. Improvements to SC2 could be implemented with giving terran transitions in and out of mech/air instead of focusing both tvz/p even more on bio mine than it already is.
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On July 25 2014 17:10 darkscream wrote:
"hmmm, terran is losing to protoss.. i know, lets just buff their lowest attention/APM unit so it's always good in every situation against everything, since Bio just isn't versatile enough"
--Blizzard
I guess you have reading comprehension problem since the patch was targeted for TvZ and not TvP.
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EPT
