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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On July 24 2014 04:30 pmp10 wrote: We can't even be sure if LotV will have any multiplayer changes. For all we know it might end up as singleplayer-only campaign. Only if Blizzard wants to shoot themselves in the foot. Highly unlikely. | ||
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gneGne
Netherlands697 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:12 MockHamill wrote: I would have preferred: 1) Tanks do more damage. 2) Factories become less expensive. 3) Immortals get less shields. 4) Tempest supply increased to 6. This change, while helping bio, does not do much for mech. I have basically stopped watching pro games because mech is not viable at pro level outside of TvT. As a mech player I learn nothing from watching 300+ APM Koreans running around with bio. I have seen it for years and it is simply boring. Ha, i'm in the same boat. These latest changes make me not watch SC2 any more since bio+WM is boring to see in every game and any mech helping patch seems very unlikely for at least a few months now. Even the hope is gone lol | ||
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gneGne
Netherlands697 Posts
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_Epi_
Germany158 Posts
For me it is one of the most entertaining play styles I have ever seen. Nevertheless more options to go for, or even some forced transitions in the game would be great. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:12 Sapphire.lux wrote: Ha, i'm in the same boat. These latest changes make me not watch SC2 any more since bio+WM is boring to see in every game and any mech helping patch seems very unlikely for at least a few months now. Even the hope is gone lol So you aren't watching sc2 for what, 2 years now ? bio+WM is still the most standard way to play sc2, some pro remplace WMs with HBs but all in all the MU is strictly the same. Stop saying non senses please. Mech never was the standard but for a couple of months in 2012. And it probably never be. Mech had their tanks buffed, upgrades buffed. Mech is less viable than bio at the top play because it scales much less with the overall skill than bio, deal with it. And btw, no one care that you will stop watching sc2 because there will be exactly as much mech game as there is now. | ||
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Rainmansc
Netherlands216 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:08 gneGne wrote: David Kim already admitted working on new units and balance issues for LotV. So multiplayer changes are confirmed. Indeed, new units.. While we all agree since the beta of WoL that so many protoss units (sentry, warpgate, collosus) where an absolute design faillure. Ive given up the hope that blizzard will ever make the real changes that Sc2 needs. Its a shame though. | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:08 gneGne wrote: David Kim already admitted working on new units and balance issues for LotV. So multiplayer changes are confirmed. Clearly, adding new units is what this game needs. I mean, the last iteration was such a smashing success, what with the MSC and the swarm host really revitalizing the game. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24232 Posts
1) Some units are scrapped (corruptor, swarm host, tempest, oracle...) and replaced with better designed ones. 2) Current units get a rework and the novelty aspect of the expansion would actually lay in new buildings, which I think would be great (I already suggested, for argument's sake, a track repair for T airforce, creep spreading Nydus for Z, and shield battery for P). If they add units on units we'll end up with so many units (I think we're already at more than BW level in terms of number of units) the game will be as good as impossible to balance. Edit for the post below : a balanced game have units overlap as little as possible (the reason why the warhound was scrapped for instance, for good reasons), so I kinda meant that here too. Not saying every unit should have one role and not another, but having two units filling the same role in the same race isn't normally interesting design. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
So yeah, it would be cooler to see some old stuff reworked, though we dont know if with new units he means replacing old ones or juat adding them. Like in the case of the SH it sounded a lit like they'd just want to replace it and in general he rather just answered questions about old BW ubits coming back with: "there might be some but there also might be something completely new". | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
And the game will be neat. Seriously, if you works on protoss early aggressions, and zergs SHs, everything will be exciting again. Giving a better AA for Z instead of corruptor will help them a lot against late game mech TvZ, so they won't need to go SHs everygame. You can rework the MSC, for exemple making it back like it was in the beta, preventing it to move from a nexus, or even better, make some sort of "chain" that allow the MSC to move to a certain distance, reduce OC range. Make oracle slower. And we're done. Might nerf the +shield damage to the WM after that (still willing to see if it's strong or not tho). So there is only 2 units that you can replace in the game, SH and corruptor. Maybe tempest, but I think the unit is fine if it gets nerfed against heavy ship. And maybe thor but I'm not even sure. And what the hell I love my collector thor edition and I would be pissed if they removed it. | ||
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Dekker
Germany169 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 24 2014 06:44 Hider wrote: I don't believe they have to make these big overall redesigns (like removing warpgate or central units such as the Collosus), but rather, I hope they just rework how a lot of the units work and focus on creating solid unit interactions. Yup. Overly messing with the game mechanics just destroys the game. Making units/strategies interact better is what actually makes the game more fun. E.g. Dont remove the collossus, play a little with its stats and maybe its capability to stand on top of other units so that it's control becomes more interesting, but leave its role intact. Though i hope the SH goes away. As much as I love the possibility of drawn out games and those games themself, SHs are just boring for both sides. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 24 2014 06:12 Squat wrote: Clearly, adding new units is what this game needs. I mean, the last iteration was such a smashing success, what with the MSC and the swarm host really revitalizing the game. Though adding new units is not DKim's job, right? He's there to assure a balanced game, not a well designed game. I think people tend to forget that. His job is to play with numbers so players can play more or less balanced game and not RPS. And still I don't think they will fix the biggest problems in TvP in LotV. IMO they need to rework Protoss and Bio and they won't do any of these. Adding medic -> freeing starport(so you CAN build a raven and you don't have to stress what to build first - vikings or medivacs), thus allowing early game aggression, thus making drops less dangerous and NOT feedbackable(why have mana & heal on drop ships when you have medics?) and because you need to build medics you can buff tanks(because you need more barracks to actgually build a proper army). You want to feedback ghost? Hit them not medics, challenge accepted(same problem as feedbacking any unit in or under a swarm of overseers)  Also freeing starports enables, IMO, better transition into air(or mech if you buff tanks).You can rework a whole race by adding a SINGLE goddamn unit to a new level of play. Protoss redesign is much more problematic and well discussed elsewhere. Just my thoughts as a P player... | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On July 24 2014 07:00 Big J wrote: Yup. Overly messing with the game mechanics just destroys the game. Making units/strategies interact better is what actually makes the game more fun. E.g. Dont remove the collossus, play a little with its stats and maybe its capability to stand on top of other units so that it's control becomes more interesting, but leave its role intact. Though i hope the SH goes away. As much as I love the possibility of drawn out games and those games themself, SHs are just boring for both sides. Yeh, for the Collosus I hope that Blizzard creates synergy between it and the Warp Prism (which the Reaver had). That can be done by removing AA vulnerability and then rebalance it in a different way. But ofc that requires tweaks to Vikings and Corrupters in order to maintain their usefullness as well. That's not necceasrily a bad thing as I think neither of those units work as well as they do anyway. For Corrupter, what if it had a new ability that affected friendly units in an area, like Dark Swarm does? That creates a new interaction where you wanna put position Hydras and Roaches in a different way so they benefit from the ability. For Viking, since it's interactions are pretty bad vs Dropships/BC's, Carriers/Tempests, why not simply opt for the BW solution here? Make the Thor the anti-armored unit and the Viking the primary anti-light. But maintain some kind of synergy so you don't just mass either of them, but mix them in together. Further, Viking could be a ton better offensively through faster transformation which will give it utility in a lot of different situations. For Swarm Host, I think it's very important for the game that zerg acutally has a unit with a defenders advantage. But Blizzard should look at why the Lurker works and the Swarm Host doesn't. Contray to common belief, the issue isn't that Swarm Hosts fires "free units" instead of a "line"-attack, but rather that Swarm Host has an effective range of around 25-30 and is quite weak in close encounters. I think the SH could work if it had an effective range between 9 and 11 so Siege Tanks can outrange Swarm Hosts in siege mode but not in tank-mode. Raven obviously also needs a rework. It needs to scale worse and could also use more synergy with bio-play in order to create more variety for late-game bio play. But overall, I think HOTS has a lot of "cool" units and has some type of fundamental to be an insanely fun game. But many of the unit-stats just needs a rework in my opinion in order to create more fun interactions. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Not sure what to do with Corruptor other than change it. It's so far from interesting that basically anything would improve it. For the SH I fully agree. Did you happen to fall over that video I once posted about a SH variation I created with the editor? (Can link you tomorrow, just turned off the PC :-) ) I think the Raven's main problem is that the energy and costs are poorly calculated for it. It has too much potential at maxed energy and too little upon popping. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:18 Faust852 wrote: So you aren't watching sc2 for what, 2 years now ? bio+WM is still the most standard way to play sc2, some pro remplace WMs with HBs but all in all the MU is strictly the same. Stop saying non senses please. Mech never was the standard but for a couple of months in 2012. And it probably never be. Mech had their tanks buffed, upgrades buffed. Mech is less viable than bio at the top play because it scales much less with the overall skill than bio, deal with it. And btw, no one care that you will stop watching sc2 because there will be exactly as much mech game as there is now. Yes, i've watched very little SC2 in the last year or so. Completely gave up on foreign tournaments and most of GSL. I only watch the occasional VODS of pro league of a few Terran players that are still using some variety in their play style. Between imbalances (almost no Terran in GSL for a long time) and a lack of diversity, SC2 is not fun to watch for me any more. Glad you like it though, douchebag. | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
I can't believe people are saying the game is close to what it should be. There is not even half the diversity WOL had. And in the end that game was ruined by horrible balance, but it still produced a hell lot of more diverse games than HOTS does currently. | ||
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