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Terran Buffs - Balance Testing Soon - July 1 - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
1211 CommentsPost a Reply
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JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4420 Posts
July 01 2014 20:53 GMT
#341
I wish they'd do something crazy like give tanks and thors +10 dmg vs shields. Would probably break the game but at least it'd be different for a while. These changes are just boring.
Disarmed
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria721 Posts
July 01 2014 20:55 GMT
#342
On July 02 2014 05:52 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 05:51 Disarmed wrote:
i might be wrong but......is this actually the first time that the community has actively enforced a reaction from blizzard? and that only in a couple of days? i think we can all agree that we wouldn't be discussing MV and WM buffs if it wouldn't have been for the dwfs post.....

100% disagreed, people have been begging for wm reversion and terran buffs for months



oh, ok.....it just thought...like that thread was so active and on the bent forums was a lot going on...just more than usual you know....just yesterday i though: "wow, they can't possibly ignore this..."


again, I'm not saying at all its all his credit
Disarmed
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria721 Posts
July 01 2014 20:56 GMT
#343
another thing:

has anybody heard any pro's opinion on this?
Disciple7seveN
Profile Joined December 2009
France28 Posts
July 01 2014 20:57 GMT
#344
Glad DK is listening... sad he (like so many others) are so 'used' to the game as it is that he doesn't take into account the fundamentally flawed differences that add up to T being so Micro dependent and therefore significantly weaker throughout the entire spectrum... We've been focusing on the top 1% of players in terms of balancing the game... that just does not make good sense. Let's try tweaking the game so that the game is balanced at every level.
This one is constantly thinking, analyzing, strategizing. He showed no fear, but was curious, studying me in turn.
SirPinky
Profile Joined February 2011
United States525 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-01 20:57:52
July 01 2014 20:57 GMT
#345
On July 02 2014 05:52 Perdac Curall wrote:
I do not think Terran needs a buff to either the widow mine or the medivac. What Terran needs are more options other than just going MMM with Vikings and Ghosts vs Protoss and Marine Medivac Widow Mine vs Zerg.

One option you could explore is improving Thor speed, or perhaps making it a researchable upgrade for the Thor, in order to make Mech more viable. The Siege tank and Hellbat I feel are pretty good where they are.

Also, Terran seems to be struggling in late game with keeping up in macro. After a big battle, both a Zerg and Protoss with good macro can re-max alot faster than Terran can.

Perhaps bringing in the tech reactor, and making it a super late game upgrade, such as only available when armory and fusion core are both built does it become available. This should help Terran keep up in battle post-midgame without endangering too much the early to midgame.

Hunter-seeker missile seems too weak for how much a Raven costs and how much energy HS missile costs. Perhaps a slight speed buff to it? All it seems good for now are reaaalllly slow units like tempests and brood lords, not exactly something you need to hunt and seek. The name seems to indicate something far different than what it is actually capable of.

Lastly, perhaps a Banshee speed upgrade can be a researchable upgrade with a tech reactor on a starport? Will make Banshees more viable for harass and battle in late game.




All good suggestions. But I think some would go too far to change the meta before the start of the new season. I think the only one i disagree with is Raven. As a mech Terran player, I think the spot of the Raven is fine. Most Zergs already have a hard time dealing with mass Ravens, so HSM change might be a bit much. Also, it would really change TvT air-to-air micro. Some vikings/BC might not be able to avoid HSM with their current speed.
How much better to get wisdom than gold; to get insight rather than silver!
Waise
Profile Joined June 2013
3165 Posts
July 01 2014 20:59 GMT
#346
On July 02 2014 05:56 Disarmed wrote:
another thing:

has anybody heard any pro's opinion on this?

the balance team talks privately with pros. as for the public, TL usually does mass pro player interviews within a week or so of balance test announcements, so you can expect to possibly see one
KingofGods
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1218 Posts
July 01 2014 21:00 GMT
#347
On July 02 2014 05:51 SirPinky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 05:47 KingofGods wrote:
David Kim probably doesn't want to buff tanks because ladder players at the lower levels won't know how to break tank lines.


You can still be bronze level and manage to click that, easy-to-use Tempest button, or Carrier button or Brood Lord morph.



But bronze players will just throw waves and waves of zealots and zeglings at tanks until they die.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
July 01 2014 21:03 GMT
#348
On July 02 2014 06:00 KingofGods wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 05:51 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:47 KingofGods wrote:
David Kim probably doesn't want to buff tanks because ladder players at the lower levels won't know how to break tank lines.


You can still be bronze level and manage to click that, easy-to-use Tempest button, or Carrier button or Brood Lord morph.



But bronze players will just throw waves and waves of zealots and zeglings at tanks until they die.

With the current state of tanks that actually works T_T
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
DoNuTs84
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark24 Posts
July 01 2014 21:05 GMT
#349
Somewhere in the world Taeja sits and claps his hands and laughing at David Kim
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 01 2014 21:06 GMT
#350
On July 02 2014 05:48 SirPinky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 05:37 Waise wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:34 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:15 andrewlt wrote:
Tanks?
Thors?
BCs?
Let hellions/hellbats do something other than kill workers?
Let banshees do something other than kill workers?
Ghosts?
Ravens?

Please, buff anything except marine/marauder/medivac/mine. Anything. Anything at all.


I completely agree! Can we go OUTSIDE of the 4M's...That is what would make for interesting games!!!! I'm SO sick of tier1 units soooo sick.

I think the poll should include a 4th Option: "Want a buff but not one of the 4M's (Marine/Medic/Marauder/Mine)"

what i got from that post was "holy shit, someone thinks ravens need a buff"


No, but one of the 6 other options makes sense. Ravens are fine.

Edit: also I think they were onto something with the firing rate for siege tank but the buff was so small, it became insignificant


I don't typically post in these threads, but I feel obligated to throw my opinion in here for Blizzard to (hopefully) read:

First of all, I definitely agree that something other than 4M should be buffed. Mines and medivacs are great and useful tools, but the biggest issue with Terran is that they're just dying in this lack of options and stale game play that doesn't allow them to do anything interesting or unexpected anymore.

With that in mind, I also think that buffing the Terran early and mid game is not, in the long run, a useful change. Buffing the early game automatically affects the mid game, the late game, all the way through to the end game (Queen range buff, for example). Because of the power of MMM in the mid game, we've seen all to often in the past that a strong early game for Terran naturally leads to a great mid game and a dominant late game. As a result, during these periods of Terran dominance (pre-queen buff, pre-snipe nerf, pre-EMP nerf, pre-hellbat nerf, pre-WM nerf, etc., etc.), we see games that look ridiculously Terran favored because their mid game snowballs very quickly into a huge late game lead. Subsequently, Blizzard has been quick to nerf what seems to be a completely out-of-control dominant race in order to preserve "balance", but they when they come back to the problem months later, they just end up buffing one thing and nerfing another and struggling to really address the problem.

That said, buffing the late game is a great place to start. The late game does not affect any of the game play earlier while still providing Terran a much-needed boon in the late game. As such, it works somewhat as a very non-committal change because it allows the early and mid game to proceed and evolve without intrusion while simultaneously create more of a safe place for Terrans, who are generally behind by the late game anyway. In this way, buffing something like the siege tank, ghosts, or even banshees to some degree would create a late game in which Terran players feel a lot more comfortable playing in without directly affecting the earlier stages of the game.

Personally, although I know Blizzard is against this, I would suggest perhaps undoing the snipe patch or at least buffing it back to 35 or 40 to help Terrans better deal with ultralisks, mutas, and zealots in the late game. Another potential change is simply by giving the siege tank +1 range, which would allow it to siege outside of nexus cannon range and would give it better space control and efficacy.

There are a million different ways to patch Terran to give it some extra power, but I think buffing the mid game units and trying to create a more powerful mid game on top of an already extremely powerful mid game base is redundant, and I think Blizzard's efforts would be better spent in buffing the peripherals of the Terran race rather than tweaking the already solid core.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
July 01 2014 21:07 GMT
#351
I'd like both these and some actual buffs as well
maru G5L pls
KingofGods
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1218 Posts
July 01 2014 21:09 GMT
#352
On July 02 2014 06:03 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 06:00 KingofGods wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:51 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:47 KingofGods wrote:
David Kim probably doesn't want to buff tanks because ladder players at the lower levels won't know how to break tank lines.


You can still be bronze level and manage to click that, easy-to-use Tempest button, or Carrier button or Brood Lord morph.



But bronze players will just throw waves and waves of zealots and zeglings at tanks until they die.

With the current state of tanks that actually works T_T


I know, but if tanks get buffed newbies won't be able to do this anymore and then they will complain about terran being a turtly race.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
July 01 2014 21:12 GMT
#353
On July 02 2014 06:09 KingofGods wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 06:03 SC2Toastie wrote:
On July 02 2014 06:00 KingofGods wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:51 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:47 KingofGods wrote:
David Kim probably doesn't want to buff tanks because ladder players at the lower levels won't know how to break tank lines.


You can still be bronze level and manage to click that, easy-to-use Tempest button, or Carrier button or Brood Lord morph.



But bronze players will just throw waves and waves of zealots and zeglings at tanks until they die.

With the current state of tanks that actually works T_T


I know, but if tanks get buffed newbies won't be able to do this anymore and then they will complain about terran being a turtly race.

That's why we don't balance for noobies.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
BeastRoW
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada16 Posts
July 01 2014 21:15 GMT
#354
ummm, in TvP, improve snipes and emp. In TvZ improve mines splash. Boom, done.
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war. - Imagination rules the world. - Soldiers generally win battles; generals get credit for them. - Ability is nothing without opportunity.
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
July 01 2014 21:16 GMT
#355
Revert some ghost and widow mine nerfs. Those two units really need help considering how important they are and how much they suck.
Long live the Boss Toss!
SirPinky
Profile Joined February 2011
United States525 Posts
July 01 2014 21:17 GMT
#356
On July 02 2014 06:06 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2014 05:48 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:37 Waise wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:34 SirPinky wrote:
On July 02 2014 05:15 andrewlt wrote:
Tanks?
Thors?
BCs?
Let hellions/hellbats do something other than kill workers?
Let banshees do something other than kill workers?
Ghosts?
Ravens?

Please, buff anything except marine/marauder/medivac/mine. Anything. Anything at all.


I completely agree! Can we go OUTSIDE of the 4M's...That is what would make for interesting games!!!! I'm SO sick of tier1 units soooo sick.

I think the poll should include a 4th Option: "Want a buff but not one of the 4M's (Marine/Medic/Marauder/Mine)"

what i got from that post was "holy shit, someone thinks ravens need a buff"


No, but one of the 6 other options makes sense. Ravens are fine.

Edit: also I think they were onto something with the firing rate for siege tank but the buff was so small, it became insignificant


I don't typically post in these threads, but I feel obligated to throw my opinion in here for Blizzard to (hopefully) read:

First of all, I definitely agree that something other than 4M should be buffed. Mines and medivacs are great and useful tools, but the biggest issue with Terran is that they're just dying in this lack of options and stale game play that doesn't allow them to do anything interesting or unexpected anymore.

With that in mind, I also think that buffing the Terran early and mid game is not, in the long run, a useful change. Buffing the early game automatically affects the mid game, the late game, all the way through to the end game (Queen range buff, for example). Because of the power of MMM in the mid game, we've seen all to often in the past that a strong early game for Terran naturally leads to a great mid game and a dominant late game. As a result, during these periods of Terran dominance (pre-queen buff, pre-snipe nerf, pre-EMP nerf, pre-hellbat nerf, pre-WM nerf, etc., etc.), we see games that look ridiculously Terran favored because their mid game snowballs very quickly into a huge late game lead. Subsequently, Blizzard has been quick to nerf what seems to be a completely out-of-control dominant race in order to preserve "balance", but they when they come back to the problem months later, they just end up buffing one thing and nerfing another and struggling to really address the problem.

That said, buffing the late game is a great place to start. The late game does not affect any of the game play earlier while still providing Terran a much-needed boon in the late game. As such, it works somewhat as a very non-committal change because it allows the early and mid game to proceed and evolve without intrusion while simultaneously create more of a safe place for Terrans, who are generally behind by the late game anyway. In this way, buffing something like the siege tank, ghosts, or even banshees to some degree would create a late game in which Terran players feel a lot more comfortable playing in without directly affecting the earlier stages of the game.

Personally, although I know Blizzard is against this, I would suggest perhaps undoing the snipe patch or at least buffing it back to 35 or 40 to help Terrans better deal with ultralisks, mutas, and zealots in the late game. Another potential change is simply by giving the siege tank +1 range, which would allow it to siege outside of nexus cannon range and would give it better space control and efficacy.

There are a million different ways to patch Terran to give it some extra power, but I think buffing the mid game units and trying to create a more powerful mid game on top of an already extremely powerful mid game base is redundant, and I think Blizzard's efforts would be better spent in buffing the peripherals of the Terran race rather than tweaking the already solid core.


Agreed. Good Post. I'm waiting for the next patch where Blizzards adds in a magic "super mario" mushroom that allows the marine to grow 20x larger to patch the imbalance. Enough with the Tier 1 buffs! Focus on other units!!!
How much better to get wisdom than gold; to get insight rather than silver!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27272 Posts
July 01 2014 21:18 GMT
#357
Medivacs aren't tier 1 ffs...

I don't think it's where a buff is needed though tbh, but let's call a spade a spade shall we?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
July 01 2014 21:20 GMT
#358
Agreed, tank or ghost buff is far preferable...

WM are the least interesting terran unit, in my opinion.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12247 Posts
July 01 2014 21:21 GMT
#359
I'd just like to point out that in the last 6 ish months, the timing between balance-related TL articles and blizzard's comments on balance (along with patch notes) has been most amusing.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
SirPinky
Profile Joined February 2011
United States525 Posts
July 01 2014 21:23 GMT
#360
On July 02 2014 06:21 Teoita wrote:
I'd just like to point out that in the last 6 ish months, the timing between balance-related TL articles and blizzard's comments on balance (along with patch notes) has been most amusing.


Yup. 100% certain we would not hear anyting from DK without the ZP article. Shows the power of TL!
How much better to get wisdom than gold; to get insight rather than silver!
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