EPTWhat do you guys think?
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Disciple7seveN
France28 Posts
What do you guys think? | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On July 06 2014 03:31 Disciple7seveN wrote: I still contest that the biggest part of the disadvantage of Terran is quite fundamental. Why doesn't zerg have to deal with any friendly damage? That's a huge part of the game and (I think) Protoss only has one unit that deals friendly damage (Storm: and it doesn't seem to affect them that much either). If they either gave zerg some friendly damage (like a small small percentage for the banelings so that A-moving clumps of them has a some semblance of a negative drawback and doesn't require the T player to micro like a god just to break even... or they took away friendly damage for all 3 races... I think that would go a long way in helping the game out, especially TvZ. Tanks would become magically viable all of a sudden. What do you guys think? We tried a couple of versions of banelings in StarBow. One of the versions was friendly fire to slow down the snowball effect. Unfortunately it kinda didnt make that much of a difference it that game. It didnt change the interaction with siegetanks at all though. I know sc2 and sbow are different games, but I just wanted to share what we have discovered with our experimentations. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On July 06 2014 03:31 Disciple7seveN wrote: I still contest that the biggest part of the disadvantage of Terran is quite fundamental. Why doesn't zerg have to deal with any friendly damage? That's a huge part of the game and (I think) Protoss only has one unit that deals friendly damage (Storm: and it doesn't seem to affect them that much either). If they either gave zerg some friendly damage (like a small small percentage for the banelings so that A-moving clumps of them has a some semblance of a negative drawback and doesn't require the T player to micro like a god just to break even... or they took away friendly damage for all 3 races... I think that would go a long way in helping the game out, especially TvZ. Tanks would become magically viable all of a sudden. What do you guys think? The huge amount of friendly fire is just part of terran race design, it was also there when terran was winning a lot. Besides you cannot do such a huge change to a core unit of a race without huge repercussions, widow mine nerf would show you that. | ||
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nonlamer
Thailand322 Posts
On July 04 2014 17:17 404AlphaSquad wrote: This is disgusting. Is this really how we want to achieve balance? flavour of month race? I dont even play sc2 since a year, but the tvp's I have seen are just brutal and unfun to watch. why would it be a bad thing for terran to have more options availabpe than 4M ? oh and btw I picked terran in the WOL beta, when 1 supply 2 armor roaches were dominating the game. If I were to pick up the game again, why should I be punished for picking a race I enjoyed playing. I hate even having this discussion. "muahaha you should have picked another race!" - seriously? Don't mind him, hater gonna hate. Almost everyone has bias and that's why blizz trust their own decision. Unfortunately many of their decision seem to make gameplay worse. And as of now many people feel like the game doesn't fun anymore and found that they only play because of they used to play everyday but not because it's fun. In my case, I never play but used to watch SC2 competitive scene every chance possible since early WOL, and around queen attack range buff hit, I start to feel like every new patch release the game feel more uglier and uglier, that's why I quit watching, it's not fun anymore. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On July 04 2014 14:53 EiBmoZ wrote: here's the thing.. all of you people crying about terran are all the people that picked terran when this game 1st came out, when terran was clearly the most OP race in sc2(mostly b/c of the small maps).. you guys got to enjoy that for 2-3 years... in the last year the only person good enough to win is teaja b/c he's just that good at sc2. as Idra would say, you guys should have had some self respect when the game 1st came out an played zerg or protoss an you'd be playing one of the strong races now, and you'd have nothing to complain about.. why don't you change the title of this thread to "Blizzard made it so i can't just build marines an win very game vs both races tier everything =(" #fuckterran <-- Hating Terran since MK cheese Fruitdealer GSL 2 Didn't know it was a sin to play 1 of the 3 races. Now that sin manifests into a broken game! It was the players fault for SC2 being so bad after all! There needs to be a hall of fame for posts like these. It's like a frenzied rant of a lunatic mental patient. I just want EiBmoZ to post some pictures of the signs he stands on the corner of the street with while yelling at passerbys. We should have had respect!!!!! Why!?!?!?! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On July 05 2014 07:27 Xiphos wrote: The point is that the community are split between two polar spectrum. One wants the players to solve the game by themselves because that's why BW's games were so meaningful. And if you rely on the devs to "balance" the game, then every winners of tournies are simply the result of flukes and only won because of patches. The other side wants the devs to be constantly getting involved and patch the game at regular intervals to keep it "fresh". So ofc the devs are in a dilemma. But they wouldn't have to be if they balanced the game during the beta phase of the game which they totally missed the mark. False dilemma. A lot of players would be very happy to see the devs ACTUALLY THINK about their game and then use all that thinking to ACTUALLY FIX IT. Just once. Not fifty times in incremental patches that do very little, but actually make the entire Terran tech tree useful for a start. Like all of it. The entire tech tree. Yes, that even means Reapers. | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
When do Terran players start getting their second rax? If not going for a quick EB build, usually at 4'05 after a Reaper expand. This means the second rax is complete at 5'10, and the Tech Lab is done at 5'35; Stim takes 170 seconds and thus is complete at 8'25. If the Stim nerf was reverted, it would be done at 7'55. At what timing does 2-bases Blink complete, at the very earliest? Around 8'. Case closed. Wouldn't this be a good way forward especially to help out Terran in the early game? | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On July 06 2014 08:02 pure.Wasted wrote: A lot of players would be very happy to see the devs ACTUALLY THINK about their game and then use all that thinking to ACTUALLY FIX IT. Just once. Not fifty times in incremental patches that do very little, but actually make the entire Terran tech tree useful for a start. Like all of it. The entire tech tree. Yes, that even means Reapers. Agree with you there, and to take things a half step forward I think an underlying problem is that Blizzard doesn't have the balls to revert changes they make that either don't pan out the way they expect, or plain don't work. The only time I personally can think of when they rolled back a change was one to hellions and hellbats and grouping/hotkeys. I do not recall the exact specifics but do recall reading about it in the patch notes some time ago. It's with genuine sincerity that I say it can not be easy to balance this game. It can not. But when it takes a community member like TheDwf to research and write an article like this to finally stir Blizzard in to motion (and the proposed changes that arise from it to mostly receive a somewhat muted respose - fair to say?). I have to ask what the hell is going on in the halls of power at Blizzard. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
But when it takes a community member like TheDwf to research and write an article like this to finally stir Blizzard in to motion (and the proposed changes that arise from it to mostly receive a somewhat muted respose - fair to say?). I have to ask what the hell is going on in the halls of power at Blizzard. I agree with this. What DWF did shouldn't work. His comments about how the mine-nerf had fucked up TvZ and many of the imbalances were generally wellknown in the community (just check the designated balance thread for instance). But it caused a community reaction and forced David Kim to react. This just shows that "balance whine" pays off, and when David Kim in the future delays obvious balance changes, noone should be susprised when the likely response on TL/reddit is a ton of balance complaints. If instead David Kim had showned consistency in how he balances stuffs and how long it takes for him to adress issues, it's a ton less likely that we would see this level of balance complaining. | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
the little glimpse of hope we had just vanished. I almost cried when I saw taeja got rekted because guess what you can build 7 observers and dont give a fuck anymore . TvP has become so ridiculous that protoss barricades the whole mid game so much because they are 100% sure to win the end game. im not saying pigbaby is a bad player on the contrary . when you match evenly skilled players the result is a total stomp with not any chance on the terran side as TheDwf explained in this article. i will make a pause watching sc2. this is beyond depressing for a fan its not a wild guess to say that there will be max 3 terrans in the next blizzcon . | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Pierrot
Canada53 Posts
I don't want SCII to be Broodwar, but I want it to be as great as Broodwar. And even though I feel that it is possible, from a practical standpoint it feels like it is very unlikely. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On July 06 2014 23:01 SSVnormandy wrote: now even polt and taeja got rekted hard ! the little glimpse of hope we had just vanished. I almost cried when I saw taeja got rekted because guess what you can build 7 observers and dont give a fuck anymore . TvP has become so ridiculous that protoss barricades the whole mid game so much because they are 100% sure to win the end game. im not saying pigbaby is a bad player on the contrary . when you match evenly skilled players the result is a total stomp with not any chance on the terran side as TheDwf explained in this article. i will make a pause watching sc2. this is beyond depressing for a fan its not a wild guess to say that there will be max 3 terrans in the next blizzcon . A true terran fan, ignoring that Polt and Taeja got abused for always doing the same. Not that you have any choice as Terran, because the race itself is weak and as a result needs more perfection in each build to contest. Maybe thats the reason why they only buff the one build for Terran and hope it doesn't ruin TvT. So curious about LotV, because it allows them to take another path with Terran, otherwise it will probably be unfixable for the highest level. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On July 06 2014 23:01 SSVnormandy wrote: now even polt and taeja got rekted hard ! the little glimpse of hope we had just vanished. I almost cried when I saw taeja got rekted because guess what you can build 7 observers and dont give a fuck anymore . TvP has become so ridiculous that protoss barricades the whole mid game so much because they are 100% sure to win the end game. im not saying pigbaby is a bad player on the contrary . when you match evenly skilled players the result is a total stomp with not any chance on the terran side as TheDwf explained in this article. i will make a pause watching sc2. this is beyond depressing for a fan its not a wild guess to say that there will be max 3 terrans in the next blizzcon . I would think Terrans happy to see them lose as it adds a tiny bit more evidence that something is wrong. Not that hopes are high--the only hope right now is LotV. | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
On July 07 2014 01:52 Ansinjunger wrote: I would think Terrans happy to see them lose as it adds a tiny bit more evidence that something is wrong. Not that hopes are high--the only hope right now is LotV. We are not that desperate of a buff to wish our hero falls for the sake of easening our ladder evening. Maybe some people think like that but I'm not. The state of TvP is ridiculous atm! I am looking at ForGG get rekted again because he try weird stuff but who can blame him? If Taeja or Maru can't pull a standard play vs a protoss who truly can? | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On July 06 2014 23:01 SSVnormandy wrote: now even polt and taeja got rekted hard ! the little glimpse of hope we had just vanished. I almost cried when I saw taeja got rekted because guess what you can build 7 observers and dont give a fuck anymore . TvP has become so ridiculous that protoss barricades the whole mid game so much because they are 100% sure to win the end game. im not saying pigbaby is a bad player on the contrary . when you match evenly skilled players the result is a total stomp with not any chance on the terran side as TheDwf explained in this article. i will make a pause watching sc2. this is beyond depressing for a fan its not a wild guess to say that there will be max 3 terrans in the next blizzcon . That's how I felt back in the last year of Wings. I got so tired and depressed of watching the game that I gave up SC2 completely for a while. I dabbled with it a bit in early HOTS but wasn't too thrilled. Starting to enjoy it again recently, though. It's just not worth giving up SC2 for me, you just gotta play more Random/have some fun enjoying the game until your favorite race gets back up. Besides, I can still pretend that Terran is strong in my personal 1v1s and team games on ladder, even if they're not even decent at the highest level anymore. Best of luck though, these are depressing times to be a Terran fan. | ||
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Alcibiades1991
24 Posts
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On July 07 2014 04:09 Alcibiades1991 wrote: It was all true, every word. I dare Protoss or Zerg to make a similar post for their races and see how far they get... Mmh if zerg and protoss came together, I'm not sure it'd be enough to compete with the sheer amount of Whine Power from this topic (and its neighbors). It'd be a lot, but probably not enough. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Unfortunately I've come to accept that Terran won't ever be up to par with the other races. It scales so well with skill (what a horrible attribute, I know) that we trust in the best Terrans to always be able to win games. However, if you buff Terran so that mediocre Terrans have their chances against mediocre non-Terrans, top Terrans will just make necklaces out of the Protoss and Zerg heads they slay. I liked the: while Protoss is quietly taking the Giza route. :DAnd the BW Terran theme at the end. Got a bit teary-eyed at that. Edit: The positive thing is that Blizzard at least managed to make it a fair 2-race game. Didn't look that way at the end of 2012. | ||
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