• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:01
CEST 11:01
KST 18:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)8Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week0Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025) Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rain's Behind the Scenes Storytime Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOP Starcraft Global #22 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 32877 users

Welcome to ZParcraft II - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1376 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
June 29 2014 11:46 GMT
#21
lol this thread
PPN
Profile Joined August 2011
France248 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#22
While I share the opinion (and I think nobody can disagree with it) that there is an issue with Terran at pro level, I'm definitely baffled by some of your arguments and skewed numbers just to prove your points. I am too lazy to list them in a neat way and I think you are perfectly aware of what you are doing. There is really no need to do that to make your statement.

You are neither helping the cause (something must definitely be done for Terran, and I personally don't believe boring campfest mech is the key) nor promoting a healthy behaviour on forums and ladder. So many players already assume they lose because their race is weak, not because they are terrible at SC2 (regardless of whether it be true or not, it is just not the right mindset).

I'm enjoying less and less playing ladder and reading forum, twitter and stuff about SC2, not because the game is not fun anymore, but because the number of bad mannered jerks increased. It's becoming irationnal and this is fueling their self-entitlement.
ster
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands94 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#23
woop! long one. interesting and well written so far!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
June 29 2014 11:50 GMT
#24
The longest balance whine of all time. A shorter article explaining that Terran has been overnerfed since the early days of HotS (when it was really strong) would have been enough.

Then again, and as a Protoss player, I'd really love oracle speed to be reverted -would alas need the balance team to be able to admit they made a mistake- and e-bay requirement for turrets to be removed. By the way, I've always wondered : would it be totally broken if the widow mine damage was 160 / 80 / 40 / 20 straight and not that lame 125 + 35 / 40 + 40 / 20 + 20 / 10 + 10 (+against shields ?). Just asking, because of how obvious it is Terran has no good aoe against Zerg.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 11:58:57
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#25
On June 29 2014 20:23 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:20 Zealously wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:18 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:09 AxS SouL wrote:
This belongs on Reddit, not TL :/


Why?

Because of most of it is opinionated crap and it promotes balance whine culture which is going to fill other threads and ladder with more people who think they know everything.


It is opinionated, but calling it crap is a stretch.

Really?

"soO a-moves a bunch of ultras offcreep, with Queens and out of mana Infestors lagging behind; several screens of hit & run later, 2 ultras fell for 70 supply of bio. Zerg's micro requirements in this sequence? Null: hands lifted from keyboard would have made literally no difference.

The disparity in micro required for each side in this situation is clear as day. You can see Maru microing his heart out of his units; meanwhile, Zerg is perfunctorily casting some useless ITs and a Fungal (25) ; only after 10 seconds does Jaedong awake to shift focus a few Medivacs with his mutas. Jaedong's awful engagement is left unpunished: cost-wise, Terran traded 1:2, but too few remains and supplies are even after the reproduction. Unless the fight takes place near one of Zerg's bases, Terran has no way to immediately capitalize on a won battle.

Is the reverse true? Alas, no: if Terran blunders and takes too bad of an engagement, the sanction is often immediate. "

Now run a zerg army over a widow mine field and have all your banelings blow up.
Terran doesn't even need to look at the screen and there's zero that the zerg can do to micro after he's already in range.

One specific example proves nothing.
Banelings into widow mines or tank shots or a misclick on a building, game over for zerg. Has happened.

Also, he wasn't microing that well. His units were still very clumped, making ultra damage super effective, and half his army was never shooting at the ultras. So yes, he was microing, but poorly relative to what you might expect from a pro SC2 terran.
And he let Soo get an ultra heavy late game army. And doesn't seem to have managed to target fire down a single ultra, again micro related.
It's like me saying as above that zerg has to micro against widow mines when the terran doesn't have to do much once they are placed. It's very situational.
HOLY CHECK!
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#26
The age of GomTvT is long past.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
June 29 2014 11:54 GMT
#27
What started as an interesting article ended up as balance whine. I stopped reading after you claimed there was nothing wrong with old mines in tvz. Really?
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 11:56 GMT
#28
That was an exhausting but interesting read.

I think we have to wait till Legacy of the Void before there will be any major changes now.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8478 Posts
June 29 2014 11:57 GMT
#29
holy cow. I guess the desolate (especially mental) state of Terran deserves articles like this one.

Hang in there :p
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
June 29 2014 11:58 GMT
#30
Impressive article. About half way through and it's a great read so far!
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12359 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:01:32
June 29 2014 12:01 GMT
#31
was gonna say thedwf is gonna love this then i saw the author LOL
I repeat, bio mine nerf was for variety concern, yet you are still not getting it
no one likes TvZ being one dimension, without mech or bio mech style
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
June 29 2014 12:03 GMT
#32
I liked the theDwf warning at the start of the article, guess some missed that. ^^;
diverzee
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden992 Posts
June 29 2014 12:05 GMT
#33
It has been obvious for a long time that Terran is too weak. My very favourite matchup is ZvT, but watching foreign zergs beat Korean terrans makes it difficult to enjoy it, and I watch less and less Starcraft nowadays.

I wish the culture was that players switched races more often. Classic proves that it can be done, and it would keep players from sticking with unfavoured races. I don't mind watching mirror matches.
Parting
GodOfWarAReS
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany105 Posts
June 29 2014 12:06 GMT
#34
awesome oO gonna read this later on =P
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#35
theDwf should post this on reddit, its been a little drama lite recently.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
yido
Profile Joined March 2014
United States350 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#36
You know what is funny? I saw this coming since they introduced HotS.
Byun knew this and left before things got bad.
gl hf
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#37
i am confident that the majority of the problems are solvable by some well thought out patches and i also think that they will come soonish
TL+ Member
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:09:44
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#38
I do agree that T needs a buff but a lot of this post is just heavy balance whining without real reasoning.

For instance, regardless of what you thought about Hellbat drops back then, the fact is they required a lot of multitask to be an efficient opening: toasting a bunch of Drones was of little use if you found yourself floating 1.2k minerals with no buildings launched after the action

as an example.
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
June 29 2014 12:12 GMT
#39
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7103 Posts
June 29 2014 12:14 GMT
#40
On June 29 2014 21:12 MiniFotToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it

I deeply hope youre not serious.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 76
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 443
Mong 311
EffOrt 228
Hyuk 175
Bisu 137
Leta 110
Zeus 98
JulyZerg 85
ToSsGirL 70
NaDa 38
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 23
Rush 22
Barracks 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Movie 6
ivOry 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 386
XcaliburYe298
420jenkins295
ODPixel217
League of Legends
JimRising 475
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1424
shoxiejesuss502
PGG 68
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0383
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor175
Other Games
ceh9753
Happy452
Mew2King148
Pyrionflax125
Trikslyr21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick613
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 46
lovetv 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 45
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
59m
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
14h 59m
The PondCast
1d
RSL Revival
1d
Harstem vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Road to EWC
3 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Road to EWC
4 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.