• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:14
CET 09:14
KST 17:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros9[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION3Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams12Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest5
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four DreamHack Open 2013 revealed Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros
Tourneys
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Kirktown Chat Brawl #9 $50 8:30PM EST 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
hospital coding​ Map pack for 3v3/4v4/FFA games BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ladder Map Matchup Stats
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Dating: How's your luck? US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Big Reveal
Peanutsc
Challenge: Maths isn't all…
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1473 users

Welcome to ZParcraft II - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1376 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
June 29 2014 11:46 GMT
#21
lol this thread
PPN
Profile Joined August 2011
France248 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#22
While I share the opinion (and I think nobody can disagree with it) that there is an issue with Terran at pro level, I'm definitely baffled by some of your arguments and skewed numbers just to prove your points. I am too lazy to list them in a neat way and I think you are perfectly aware of what you are doing. There is really no need to do that to make your statement.

You are neither helping the cause (something must definitely be done for Terran, and I personally don't believe boring campfest mech is the key) nor promoting a healthy behaviour on forums and ladder. So many players already assume they lose because their race is weak, not because they are terrible at SC2 (regardless of whether it be true or not, it is just not the right mindset).

I'm enjoying less and less playing ladder and reading forum, twitter and stuff about SC2, not because the game is not fun anymore, but because the number of bad mannered jerks increased. It's becoming irationnal and this is fueling their self-entitlement.
ster
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands94 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#23
woop! long one. interesting and well written so far!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24232 Posts
June 29 2014 11:50 GMT
#24
The longest balance whine of all time. A shorter article explaining that Terran has been overnerfed since the early days of HotS (when it was really strong) would have been enough.

Then again, and as a Protoss player, I'd really love oracle speed to be reverted -would alas need the balance team to be able to admit they made a mistake- and e-bay requirement for turrets to be removed. By the way, I've always wondered : would it be totally broken if the widow mine damage was 160 / 80 / 40 / 20 straight and not that lame 125 + 35 / 40 + 40 / 20 + 20 / 10 + 10 (+against shields ?). Just asking, because of how obvious it is Terran has no good aoe against Zerg.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 11:58:57
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#25
On June 29 2014 20:23 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:20 Zealously wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:18 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:09 AxS SouL wrote:
This belongs on Reddit, not TL :/


Why?

Because of most of it is opinionated crap and it promotes balance whine culture which is going to fill other threads and ladder with more people who think they know everything.


It is opinionated, but calling it crap is a stretch.

Really?

"soO a-moves a bunch of ultras offcreep, with Queens and out of mana Infestors lagging behind; several screens of hit & run later, 2 ultras fell for 70 supply of bio. Zerg's micro requirements in this sequence? Null: hands lifted from keyboard would have made literally no difference.

The disparity in micro required for each side in this situation is clear as day. You can see Maru microing his heart out of his units; meanwhile, Zerg is perfunctorily casting some useless ITs and a Fungal (25) ; only after 10 seconds does Jaedong awake to shift focus a few Medivacs with his mutas. Jaedong's awful engagement is left unpunished: cost-wise, Terran traded 1:2, but too few remains and supplies are even after the reproduction. Unless the fight takes place near one of Zerg's bases, Terran has no way to immediately capitalize on a won battle.

Is the reverse true? Alas, no: if Terran blunders and takes too bad of an engagement, the sanction is often immediate. "

Now run a zerg army over a widow mine field and have all your banelings blow up.
Terran doesn't even need to look at the screen and there's zero that the zerg can do to micro after he's already in range.

One specific example proves nothing.
Banelings into widow mines or tank shots or a misclick on a building, game over for zerg. Has happened.

Also, he wasn't microing that well. His units were still very clumped, making ultra damage super effective, and half his army was never shooting at the ultras. So yes, he was microing, but poorly relative to what you might expect from a pro SC2 terran.
And he let Soo get an ultra heavy late game army. And doesn't seem to have managed to target fire down a single ultra, again micro related.
It's like me saying as above that zerg has to micro against widow mines when the terran doesn't have to do much once they are placed. It's very situational.
HOLY CHECK!
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#26
The age of GomTvT is long past.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
June 29 2014 11:54 GMT
#27
What started as an interesting article ended up as balance whine. I stopped reading after you claimed there was nothing wrong with old mines in tvz. Really?
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 11:56 GMT
#28
That was an exhausting but interesting read.

I think we have to wait till Legacy of the Void before there will be any major changes now.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8625 Posts
June 29 2014 11:57 GMT
#29
holy cow. I guess the desolate (especially mental) state of Terran deserves articles like this one.

Hang in there :p
in the age of "Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV" leadership.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
June 29 2014 11:58 GMT
#30
Impressive article. About half way through and it's a great read so far!
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12497 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:01:32
June 29 2014 12:01 GMT
#31
was gonna say thedwf is gonna love this then i saw the author LOL
I repeat, bio mine nerf was for variety concern, yet you are still not getting it
no one likes TvZ being one dimension, without mech or bio mech style
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
June 29 2014 12:03 GMT
#32
I liked the theDwf warning at the start of the article, guess some missed that. ^^;
diverzee
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden992 Posts
June 29 2014 12:05 GMT
#33
It has been obvious for a long time that Terran is too weak. My very favourite matchup is ZvT, but watching foreign zergs beat Korean terrans makes it difficult to enjoy it, and I watch less and less Starcraft nowadays.

I wish the culture was that players switched races more often. Classic proves that it can be done, and it would keep players from sticking with unfavoured races. I don't mind watching mirror matches.
Parting
GodOfWarAReS
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany105 Posts
June 29 2014 12:06 GMT
#34
awesome oO gonna read this later on =P
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#35
theDwf should post this on reddit, its been a little drama lite recently.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
yido
Profile Joined March 2014
United States350 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#36
You know what is funny? I saw this coming since they introduced HotS.
Byun knew this and left before things got bad.
gl hf
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#37
i am confident that the majority of the problems are solvable by some well thought out patches and i also think that they will come soonish
TL+ Member
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:09:44
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#38
I do agree that T needs a buff but a lot of this post is just heavy balance whining without real reasoning.

For instance, regardless of what you thought about Hellbat drops back then, the fact is they required a lot of multitask to be an efficient opening: toasting a bunch of Drones was of little use if you found yourself floating 1.2k minerals with no buildings launched after the action

as an example.
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
June 29 2014 12:12 GMT
#39
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7138 Posts
June 29 2014 12:14 GMT
#40
On June 29 2014 21:12 MiniFotToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it

I deeply hope youre not serious.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 127
Nina 122
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 10566
Larva 526
PianO 457
actioN 396
soO 29
ToSsGirL 26
sorry 22
Sacsri 13
Liquid`Ret 11
Rush 9
Dota 2
XaKoH 637
League of Legends
JimRising 723
Reynor64
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King184
amsayoshi24
Other Games
summit1g16404
NeuroSwarm59
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick323
Counter-Strike
PGL192
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1503
• Lourlo1039
• HappyZerGling172
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
46m
Wardi Open
3h 46m
Monday Night Weeklies
8h 46m
Replay Cast
14h 46m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 3h
LAN Event
1d 6h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LAN Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
LAN Event
5 days
IPSL
5 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
LAN Event
6 days
IPSL
6 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.