• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:19
CEST 14:19
KST 21:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch0[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)90ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo40Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? https://www.facebook.com/Arthrovit.Arthritis.Pain. Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? ProGamer Paychecks Story Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6309 users

Welcome to ZParcraft II - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1376 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
June 29 2014 11:46 GMT
#21
lol this thread
PPN
Profile Joined August 2011
France248 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#22
While I share the opinion (and I think nobody can disagree with it) that there is an issue with Terran at pro level, I'm definitely baffled by some of your arguments and skewed numbers just to prove your points. I am too lazy to list them in a neat way and I think you are perfectly aware of what you are doing. There is really no need to do that to make your statement.

You are neither helping the cause (something must definitely be done for Terran, and I personally don't believe boring campfest mech is the key) nor promoting a healthy behaviour on forums and ladder. So many players already assume they lose because their race is weak, not because they are terrible at SC2 (regardless of whether it be true or not, it is just not the right mindset).

I'm enjoying less and less playing ladder and reading forum, twitter and stuff about SC2, not because the game is not fun anymore, but because the number of bad mannered jerks increased. It's becoming irationnal and this is fueling their self-entitlement.
ster
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands94 Posts
June 29 2014 11:49 GMT
#23
woop! long one. interesting and well written so far!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
June 29 2014 11:50 GMT
#24
The longest balance whine of all time. A shorter article explaining that Terran has been overnerfed since the early days of HotS (when it was really strong) would have been enough.

Then again, and as a Protoss player, I'd really love oracle speed to be reverted -would alas need the balance team to be able to admit they made a mistake- and e-bay requirement for turrets to be removed. By the way, I've always wondered : would it be totally broken if the widow mine damage was 160 / 80 / 40 / 20 straight and not that lame 125 + 35 / 40 + 40 / 20 + 20 / 10 + 10 (+against shields ?). Just asking, because of how obvious it is Terran has no good aoe against Zerg.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 11:58:57
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#25
On June 29 2014 20:23 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:20 Zealously wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:18 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On June 29 2014 20:09 AxS SouL wrote:
This belongs on Reddit, not TL :/


Why?

Because of most of it is opinionated crap and it promotes balance whine culture which is going to fill other threads and ladder with more people who think they know everything.


It is opinionated, but calling it crap is a stretch.

Really?

"soO a-moves a bunch of ultras offcreep, with Queens and out of mana Infestors lagging behind; several screens of hit & run later, 2 ultras fell for 70 supply of bio. Zerg's micro requirements in this sequence? Null: hands lifted from keyboard would have made literally no difference.

The disparity in micro required for each side in this situation is clear as day. You can see Maru microing his heart out of his units; meanwhile, Zerg is perfunctorily casting some useless ITs and a Fungal (25) ; only after 10 seconds does Jaedong awake to shift focus a few Medivacs with his mutas. Jaedong's awful engagement is left unpunished: cost-wise, Terran traded 1:2, but too few remains and supplies are even after the reproduction. Unless the fight takes place near one of Zerg's bases, Terran has no way to immediately capitalize on a won battle.

Is the reverse true? Alas, no: if Terran blunders and takes too bad of an engagement, the sanction is often immediate. "

Now run a zerg army over a widow mine field and have all your banelings blow up.
Terran doesn't even need to look at the screen and there's zero that the zerg can do to micro after he's already in range.

One specific example proves nothing.
Banelings into widow mines or tank shots or a misclick on a building, game over for zerg. Has happened.

Also, he wasn't microing that well. His units were still very clumped, making ultra damage super effective, and half his army was never shooting at the ultras. So yes, he was microing, but poorly relative to what you might expect from a pro SC2 terran.
And he let Soo get an ultra heavy late game army. And doesn't seem to have managed to target fire down a single ultra, again micro related.
It's like me saying as above that zerg has to micro against widow mines when the terran doesn't have to do much once they are placed. It's very situational.
HOLY CHECK!
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
June 29 2014 11:53 GMT
#26
The age of GomTvT is long past.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
June 29 2014 11:54 GMT
#27
What started as an interesting article ended up as balance whine. I stopped reading after you claimed there was nothing wrong with old mines in tvz. Really?
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 11:56 GMT
#28
That was an exhausting but interesting read.

I think we have to wait till Legacy of the Void before there will be any major changes now.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
June 29 2014 11:57 GMT
#29
holy cow. I guess the desolate (especially mental) state of Terran deserves articles like this one.

Hang in there :p
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
June 29 2014 11:58 GMT
#30
Impressive article. About half way through and it's a great read so far!
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12740 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:01:32
June 29 2014 12:01 GMT
#31
was gonna say thedwf is gonna love this then i saw the author LOL
I repeat, bio mine nerf was for variety concern, yet you are still not getting it
no one likes TvZ being one dimension, without mech or bio mech style
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
June 29 2014 12:03 GMT
#32
I liked the theDwf warning at the start of the article, guess some missed that. ^^;
diverzee
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden992 Posts
June 29 2014 12:05 GMT
#33
It has been obvious for a long time that Terran is too weak. My very favourite matchup is ZvT, but watching foreign zergs beat Korean terrans makes it difficult to enjoy it, and I watch less and less Starcraft nowadays.

I wish the culture was that players switched races more often. Classic proves that it can be done, and it would keep players from sticking with unfavoured races. I don't mind watching mirror matches.
Parting
GodOfWarAReS
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany105 Posts
June 29 2014 12:06 GMT
#34
awesome oO gonna read this later on =P
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#35
theDwf should post this on reddit, its been a little drama lite recently.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
yido
Profile Joined March 2014
United States350 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#36
You know what is funny? I saw this coming since they introduced HotS.
Byun knew this and left before things got bad.
gl hf
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#37
i am confident that the majority of the problems are solvable by some well thought out patches and i also think that they will come soonish
TL+ Member
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 12:09:44
June 29 2014 12:08 GMT
#38
I do agree that T needs a buff but a lot of this post is just heavy balance whining without real reasoning.

For instance, regardless of what you thought about Hellbat drops back then, the fact is they required a lot of multitask to be an efficient opening: toasting a bunch of Drones was of little use if you found yourself floating 1.2k minerals with no buildings launched after the action

as an example.
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
June 29 2014 12:12 GMT
#39
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7179 Posts
June 29 2014 12:14 GMT
#40
On June 29 2014 21:12 MiniFotToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 20:53 Superouman wrote:
The age of GomTvT is long past.


Thanks for pointing that out, you guys who think Terran needs to be on top again is stupid, Terran already had its prime, time for P&Z to have some glory, maybe terran will get some back in LOTS, but now it

I deeply hope youre not serious.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 67 68 69 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
S6 Korea Server Qualifier
Zoun vs NightMareLIVE!
Maru vs Percival
Ryung 1375
CranKy Ducklings241
CranKy Ducklings SOOP15
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 1375
Lowko569
elazer 225
ProTech122
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40566
firebathero 779
Jaedong 644
Mini 641
Light 493
EffOrt 493
Hyuk 472
actioN 323
Soulkey 182
Leta 169
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 145
Rush 111
Snow 109
hero 78
Pusan 73
Hyun 73
Mong 66
JulyZerg 63
ToSsGirL 55
Sea.KH 55
Killer 41
JYJ 35
[sc1f]eonzerg 35
Free 31
Movie 31
Bale 27
scan(afreeca) 23
yabsab 21
Aegong 18
sorry 17
HiyA 15
IntoTheRainbow 13
Sacsri 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Terrorterran 7
Purpose 6
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Dendi794
XaKoH 600
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1891
x6flipin530
kRYSTAL_53
Other Games
singsing1043
B2W.Neo650
crisheroes265
Pyrionflax196
DeMusliM160
hiko123
Mew2King80
BEARDiaguz17
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 993
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream337
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota248
League of Legends
• Jankos2240
• TFBlade392
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 41m
Bombastic Starleague
7h 41m
PiGosaur Cup
11h 41m
Kung Fu Cup
22h 41m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
CrankTV Team League
1d 22h
Bombastic Starleague
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-29
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.