On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is.
Since the OP is from America, I'll talk about American sports broadcasting.
The whole "hyping" just isn't something play-by-play commentators do in America. Nantz/Buck/Michaels for NFL, Buck for MLB, Albert for NBA, etc. just don't do these "hype" tactics or give a wide-range of emotion. Sure there are exceptions like Gus Johnson but seeing someone act like the Univision guy wouldn't happen (at a national level). Whether or not you think hyping is necessary is a different discussion.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
Yet sports analysts wear a suit and tie to talk about... soccer? Chris Rock wears a suit and tie and then tells jokes for an hour straight.
I don't think that's the issue here. Maybe for us gamers it's fine, but if you're trying to appeal to people who like sports then a bit of professionalism would go a long way in my mind.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
Yet sports analysts wear a suit and tie to talk about... soccer? Chris Rock wears a suit and tie and then tells jokes for an hour straight.
I don't think that's the issue here. Maybe for us gamers it's fine, but if you're trying to appeal to people who like sports then a bit of professionalism would go a long way in my mind.
well yeah, i could do without any of that unless those guys WANT to wear a suit, as i said before.
why do you think e-sports should try to appeal to people that aren't gamers? how does that make sense? why would those people care about e-sports? because some guy is wearing a suit and isn't cursing?
I could imagine that the US casting is not that great since football is not the most popular sport over there so it might not be the pinnacle of sports casting. If you compared it to US casting of the NBA or the superbowl then im sure you would come to the conclusion that they are quite decent too.
There are a lot of legendary casts from the times Germany won the world cup. Standard Bundesliga casters arent always that great and when i used to watch football regularly, people often argued about casting quality just like in the sc2 scene. Since the sc2 scene is so small, criticism reaches the casters more easily and we have less casters that could kinda just do their thing and just ignore everyone else.
But also the role of a caster is much much smaller. In Germany you never see the face of the in-game caster and when you root for your team and watch with friends in a public place nobody listens to the caster anyway and excitement derives itself from the game and not from the casting. You really dont need to add much as a caster. Also when there a chants from the crowd or whatever its often the best move as a caster to just stfu and let the moment speak for itself.
But productionwise i think that traditional sports are still universes ahead with instant replays, highlight videos already prepared in the break /after the game, strategic analysis, multiple camera angles etc. pp.
I think esports casting has the advantage that they can be unconventional and dont have to be so comformist but i dont think they're ahead. It also helps that top sc2 casters are expected to maintain a high level of play themselves.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: Incontrol is especially guilty here. I think he's hilarious.. but he could probably be just as funny and also be a bit more professional.
Hmm..I don't watch so many US tournament streams any more but isn't he mostly (professional), apart from at Home Story Cup? I hope you're not basing his commentary on HSC!
Schelim -- Those people might care about e-sports because they ran across it at a friends house and were impressed by the insane casting and destruction and action going on. It happened recently where a friend of mine and I had a couple of tokes in my room, and I had an SC2 tourney on (as I almost always do). He basically sat there with his mouth wide-open, half-drooling while hypnotized by the casters and gamers doing their thing. Then he said "Holy shit, I never knew Starcraft was so intense!" I was so proud of SC2 at that moment! This was about a month ago. And the grass was good, but not THAT good, if you dig... The production straight mesmerized that man.
Why are comparing the world cup to starcraft casting? At least do basketball or something. Its hard for football to get hyped when the defenders advantage is so high, even when in scoring distance it rarely gets exciting. Besides local radio announcers for basketball Id say SC2 has the best appeal. But obviously we are dealing with .02% of production values as the big guys.
Also, I think perhaps in murica (I'm assuming you have your own broadcasts) you have very different casters if that's your view. You probably don't understand what this guy is saying, but here's some fucking hype for you
Maybe U.S casters Brazilians casters, and I 'm sure spanish, italians and english casters as well, would have a complete list of semi-important facts to tell the audience. Good line ups from all games between X and Y on the last 40 years, how they did on previous WCs (all of them of course), tactical diferences, players that we should keep an eye on, if the grass is more adequate for fast passes or long range trows and how it impacts the teams base on their rosters. Then.... the game starts... and we have 90+ minutes spotting misreads and plain mistakes done by coaches, all sort of statistics, strategies being used, short interviews with players leaving the field on half time or by substitution, referee analysis. I wanna see a SC2 caster doing this at the end of GSL. (sry already posted but still) + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2014 05:13 BrieFanFiction wrote: Hello everyone, in this thread I would like us to hold a discussion comparing the World Cup and its casting quality to the high-end SC2 casting (eg: Dreamhack, MLG). I for one have noticed a few differences between arguably the world's most watched event, and SC2 casting, and what I've noticed has made me very proud. I personally think SC2 casting is far superior to the current world cup's English casting.
Sitting on my rear this summer having been unable to find a job, I've been watching 3 world cup games a day for the last week, and my god have I noticed something: The World Cup's English casting, commentators, and analyst desks are just plain weak compared to SC2's (again I'm referring to our big tourneys).
What I've noticed:
Music
World Cup: Exact same filler-content-song played each time ("Oh-way-yah" anyone?)
SC2: Different filler-content-songs played, most of which are pretty fresh. So fresh that a lot of chat channels will display the song name if you enter !song (or something similar) because song name requests are so common. Sorry, but I don't see large-scale demand for this weak FIFA World Cup soundtrack.
In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
Production
I am watching the World Cup live for free on ESPN3 (espn3.com for those who are interested, this is the only legal and free way to watch it in the US for all the games). Now, the online stream seems to be a secondary idea for ESPN seeing as most viewers will be watching in their televisions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing the same production as TV viewers but minus the advertisements. A lot of the World Cup's filler material is pretty sharp, I must say. There are close-ups of players making sharp-turns, then slow-mo as they kick the ball; replays of goals and penalty kicks, lots of close-ups of players screaming and fist-pumping. SC2 production has this filler material as well, but for some reason it doesn't pull me in like the World Cup's, perhaps because SC2 filler material is not as physical in nature (a fist pump from the sitting position doesn't do much to thrill me).
I think SC2 has an inherent disadvantage when it comes to relaying our intensity to the viewers at home, largely because our intensity is of a mental nature instead of a physical one. How we can remedy this, I don't know. Do you have any ideas?
Boundaries of Discussion
Although it's nice when threads take on their own lives, I want this thread to stay focused on the topic. The reason for this is because I want to crowd-source opinions about the world cup and SC2 production/casting, what we can do better, what they do better than us, what we do better than them, and what we can learn from the FIFA World Cup's production and casting.
What can we learn from the largest televised event in the world to help ourselves be more marketable to sponsors, and therefore enable our growth?
How do you think SC2 casting and production quality compares to the World Cup's?
Remember: The World Cup is currently playing, go watch it and then watch MLG and see how the casting compares. See how the production compares. See how much passion is imparted to you by the people on the other end of the cameras; then let's discuss it here and try to help our sport grow.
Sorry in advance if my post rambles a bit, I've had a few beers
This is pretty much the opposite of how I feel. I get boring while watching most SC2 casts because the casts aren't exciting. I like Apollo's casting for the most part, and Nathanias is pretty good. Artosis would be a cool guy to sit down and talk starcraft with, but I don't want to hear worthless bullshit or personal nonsense in the middle of a professional cast, which pretty much optimizes his and Tasteless' casts. I like Wolf and MonteCristo though. MoonGLaDe doesn't add anything for me except maybe a little bit of Zerg expertise, which I don't need to hear, but having him isn't a detriment.
As for World Cup casts, I love it. I can put in on in the background and listen to everything that's going on. I know what's going on, and there's huge build up when the casters see a play being built up. Once a goal happens, it's madness. Everyone and their dogs know about the goal. Not only that, but they are pretty much shouting the whole time, so it gives the game a large sense of intensity.
When Artosis is talking about his dog, I suddenly don't want to watch Zest vs TRUE anymore.... etc etc. (he didn't even cast that game, but you know what I'm getting at). When the casters are saying that my team's forwards are passing the ball, I immediately ignore the world around me because I know what opportunities lie in store.
I don't tend to listen to commentators that much in football. Most of the time I watch in company so that may play a big part. When I watch sc2 there seems to be a lot more down time, between games, first few minutes of everygame and periods when both players are passively macroing, so maybe casters play a bigger part in keeping the audience amused.
I do like however that e-sports is still a bit underground so has its own flavour and feels like casters can express themselves with a little more freedom than in a super professionalised sports such as football. I prefer colourful characters over grey cardboard cut outs any day.
You can watch at univision.com for free no network subscription is in spanish but watching soccer in spanish is like watching SC been commentated by korean casters, great
Completely disagree with OP. SC2 casting is solid and I enjoy it, but I often find the analysis in SC2 is overdone, and I appreciate professionalism in sports casting. Whenever I hear SC2 casting, I am always struck by how big the gap is between them and the professional sports world.
E-sports casters and professional sports come from vastly different backgrounds. E-sports comes from an organic growth from the community, while in professional sports it has developed to the point where I assume they come through some sort of media education and rise up through the ranks, from casting local events to the big stage (unless they are formal professionals). Also, the competition to become a caster for professional sports is much higher, and I imagine the money is a lot more.
That being said, I do think casters in the SC2 scene can do better with dramatizing things less and focusing more on accuracy of casting than on speculation. It gets old when EVERY moment is a "holy shit" moment. No, not every moment in an SC2 game can change the fate of the game.
By the way, Kaelaris banned? I'm guessing that's the fake Kaelaris then? Seemed like a perfectly fine post to me =P
On June 21 2014 08:13 Defenestrator wrote: Completely disagree with OP. SC2 casting is solid and I enjoy it, but I often find the analysis in SC2 is overdone, and I appreciate professionalism in sports casting. Whenever I hear SC2 casting, I am always struck by how big the gap is between them and the professional sports world.
I agree.
To me, casting doesn't get better than the NBA. Short, direct sentences during plays and a few stats during downtime. Hype when a big play comes along, but generally nothing over the top, since the audience also saw the play and enjoyed it. Commentators present their opinion in mostly a straightforward manner, and a short discussion takes place when they don't agree about something.
When I watch SC2 or Dota casts nowadays I often get too distracted since the casters and/or the commentators don't shut up for more than 5 seconds, it's bizarre.
EPT
Brazilians casters, and I 'm sure spanish, italians and english casters as well, would have a complete list of semi-important facts to tell the audience. Good line ups from all games between X and Y on the last 40 years, how they did on previous WCs (all of them of course), tactical diferences, players that we should keep an eye on, if the grass is more adequate for fast passes or long range trows and how it impacts the teams base on their rosters. Then.... the game starts... and we have 90+ minutes spotting misreads and plain mistakes done by coaches, all sort of statistics, strategies being used, short interviews with players leaving the field on half time or by substitution, referee analysis. I wanna see a SC2 caster doing this at the end of GSL. (sry already posted but still) 
