Hello everyone, in this thread I would like us to hold a discussion comparing the World Cup and its casting quality to the high-end SC2 casting (eg: Dreamhack, MLG). I for one have noticed a few differences between arguably the world's most watched event, and SC2 casting, and what I've noticed has made me very proud. I personally think SC2 casting is far superior to the current world cup's English casting.
Sitting on my rear this summer having been unable to find a job, I've been watching 3 world cup games a day for the last week, and my god have I noticed something: The World Cup's English casting, commentators, and analyst desks are just plain weak compared to SC2's (again I'm referring to our big tourneys).
What I've noticed:
Music
World Cup: Exact same filler-content-song played each time ("Oh-way-yah" anyone?)
SC2: Different filler-content-songs played, most of which are pretty fresh. So fresh that a lot of chat channels will display the song name if you enter !song (or something similar) because song name requests are so common. Sorry, but I don't see large-scale demand for this weak FIFA World Cup soundtrack.
In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
Production
I am watching the World Cup live for free on ESPN3 (espn3.com for those who are interested, this is the only legal and free way to watch it in the US for all the games). Now, the online stream seems to be a secondary idea for ESPN seeing as most viewers will be watching in their televisions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing the same production as TV viewers but minus the advertisements. A lot of the World Cup's filler material is pretty sharp, I must say. There are close-ups of players making sharp-turns, then slow-mo as they kick the ball; replays of goals and penalty kicks, lots of close-ups of players screaming and fist-pumping. SC2 production has this filler material as well, but for some reason it doesn't pull me in like the World Cup's, perhaps because SC2 filler material is not as physical in nature (a fist pump from the sitting position doesn't do much to thrill me).
I think SC2 has an inherent disadvantage when it comes to relaying our intensity to the viewers at home, largely because our intensity is of a mental nature instead of a physical one. How we can remedy this, I don't know. Do you have any ideas?
Boundaries of Discussion
Although it's nice when threads take on their own lives, I want this thread to stay focused on the topic. The reason for this is because I want to crowd-source opinions about the world cup and SC2 production/casting, what we can do better, what they do better than us, what we do better than them, and what we can learn from the FIFA World Cup's production and casting.
What can we learn from the largest televised event in the world to help ourselves be more marketable to sponsors, and therefore enable our growth?
How do you think SC2 casting and production quality compares to the World Cup's?
Remember: The World Cup is currently playing, go watch it and then watch MLG and see how the casting compares. See how the production compares. See how much passion is imparted to you by the people on the other end of the cameras; then let's discuss it here and try to help our sport grow.
Sorry in advance if my post rambles a bit, I've had a few beers
This sounds pretty accurate. I've been thinking for a long time that Starcraft production value can rival that of any sports league. Plus I think tasteless/artosis have better synergy than any other sports casting duo/team.
I assume you mean the American broadcasts? ESPN? British casters, which is what ESPN is using now for World Cup, always err on the side of being super-professional. Which is better than when they used American casters, who were always just bored. Listen to the Spanish World Cup casts. Now THAT is excitement.
Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
I agree that the in-game commentary usually is worse at engaging me to watch all the time, but what you have to remember is that football games are 90 minutes more or less in one go, and you can't keep up that level of excitement for that duration of time. The casting (I watch swedish television) is more relaxed and adapted to a more relaxed viewing habit. I have the World Cup on at almost all times in the background of what I'm currently doing, sometimes checking in for larger chunks of time.
What is the biggest discrepancy for me between watching say DH and the WC is the in-between filler material and studio production. The flow between games and analysis and interviews and video clips of teams' history and experts giving their opinion on a special player and plain banter is a lot better than in SC2 events. Everyone seems more relaxed and used to what they're doing, and there's a lot more material prepared for them to work with.
Separating casters and analysts/studio guys is one thing that makes a huge difference here.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
This is exactly what I was thinking (note: I am an American). None of the OP really applies to World Cup broadcasts outside of the U.S.
On June 21 2014 05:26 evaunit01 wrote: Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Yeah i just watch it in spanish. it shits all over everything else imho
I've been watching the world cup on univision deportes in the US, I don't speak Spanish very well but I very much prefer listening to the Spanish casters rather than the US since they do a good job with making plays sound exciting. Kind of the same reason I really enjoyed listening to Korean casts of BW.
So, to start this off, my Father is a very honest person, no BS.
He's been a long time Football fan, ever since childhood, and has watched the sport, as well as many others ever since. I got a call from him a few months ago just for a routine check in, see how everything's going in the UK etc, around the time he was watching the Winter Olympics.. whenever that was. Anyway, he's watched quite a lot of my casts, and understand how the flow of our casting goes. So he mentions to me during this call that ever since he's watched a few of our casts, Traditional spots commentators do very little for him in terms of hype, ever. Sure they're relatively informative before and after the game, and an ex-pro may brake down a goal or something for like 20-30 seconds every so often, but he said something I really enjoyed, which was..
"Your type of commentary is the future of Sports casting"
Maybe he was being a bit dramatic, but I think eSports commentators relate with the audience much better.
EDIT: Dammit I posted on the wrong account.. (usual one is mouzKaelaris)
On June 21 2014 05:26 evaunit01 wrote: Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Yeah i just watch it in spanish. it shits all over everything else imho
Korean Starcraft casting >>> Spanish soccer/ football casting though
On June 21 2014 05:47 Logikz wrote: I've been watching the world cup on univision deportes in the US, I don't speak Spanish very well but I very much prefer listening to the Spanish casters rather than the US since they do a good job with making plays sound exciting. Kind of the same reason I really enjoyed listening to Korean casts of BW.
Same here, I understand words and phrases but not the hundreds of words per minute that the casters speak at. Very exciting though.
On June 21 2014 05:49 Kaelaris wrote: Small story to tell.
So, to start this off, my Father is a very honest person, no BS.
He's been a long time Football fan, ever since childhood, and has watched the sport, as well as many others ever since. I got a call from him a few months ago just for a routine check in, see how everything's going in the UK etc, around the time he was watching the Winter Olympics.. whenever that was. Anyway, he's watched quite a lot of my casts, and understand how the flow of our casting goes. So he mentions to me during this call that ever since he's watched a few of our casts, Traditional spots commentators do very little for him in terms of hype, ever. Sure they're relatively informative before and after the game, and an ex-pro may brake down a goal or something for like 20-30 seconds every so often, but he said something I really enjoyed, which was..
"Your type of commentary is the future of Sports casting"
Maybe he was being a bit dramatic, but I think eSports commentators relate with the audience much better.
EDIT: Dammit I posted on the wrong account.. (usual one is mouzKaelaris)
Reported for multiple account abuse. For shame.
Just kidding :D interesting anecdote! I generally prefer eSports casting to most sports casting.
On June 21 2014 05:13 BrieFanFiction wrote: In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
This is sooo much dependant on where you watch and all ....
Belgium commentators do a reall good job of hyping during the game and all, i love hearing them.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
This is exactly what I was thinking (note: I am an American). None of the OP really applies to World Cup broadcasts outside of the U.S.
On June 21 2014 05:34 SatedSC2 wrote: Any good British commentator worth listening to works in England for one of the big English broadcasters. For the World Cup this is BBC and ITV, but more generally its Sky Sports and BT Sports. Commentators on American channels are bad because they're generally the ones who couldn't get a job in Britain (or they're actually American, which is even worse!)
What's ironic is current ESPN commentator for World Cup (mainly USA + big matches) used to work at Sky and still has a job at BT sports.
Anyway, comparing the SC2 casters to World Cup (or most sports) commentators is stupid. World Cup (for ESPN) uses a standard play-by-play + color commentator combination and most SC2 casters are a combination of the two.
World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. At least in the rest of the world (though it's really picking up in the US).
I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games. Incontrol is especially guilty here. I think he's hilarious.. but he could probably be just as funny and also be a bit more professional.
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
PS
That, and SERIOUSLY, stop talking about prize money. It makes the competition seem so petty in comparison to other sports. I know how much the winner of every single StarCraft match is going to win because they keep rubbing it in our face, but can you name any other sport where prize money is mentioned anywhere near this often? Nope.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is.
Since the OP is from America, I'll talk about American sports broadcasting.
The whole "hyping" just isn't something play-by-play commentators do in America. Nantz/Buck/Michaels for NFL, Buck for MLB, Albert for NBA, etc. just don't do these "hype" tactics or give a wide-range of emotion. Sure there are exceptions like Gus Johnson but seeing someone act like the Univision guy wouldn't happen (at a national level). Whether or not you think hyping is necessary is a different discussion.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
Yet sports analysts wear a suit and tie to talk about... soccer? Chris Rock wears a suit and tie and then tells jokes for an hour straight.
I don't think that's the issue here. Maybe for us gamers it's fine, but if you're trying to appeal to people who like sports then a bit of professionalism would go a long way in my mind.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
Yet sports analysts wear a suit and tie to talk about... soccer? Chris Rock wears a suit and tie and then tells jokes for an hour straight.
I don't think that's the issue here. Maybe for us gamers it's fine, but if you're trying to appeal to people who like sports then a bit of professionalism would go a long way in my mind.
well yeah, i could do without any of that unless those guys WANT to wear a suit, as i said before.
why do you think e-sports should try to appeal to people that aren't gamers? how does that make sense? why would those people care about e-sports? because some guy is wearing a suit and isn't cursing?
I could imagine that the US casting is not that great since football is not the most popular sport over there so it might not be the pinnacle of sports casting. If you compared it to US casting of the NBA or the superbowl then im sure you would come to the conclusion that they are quite decent too.
There are a lot of legendary casts from the times Germany won the world cup. Standard Bundesliga casters arent always that great and when i used to watch football regularly, people often argued about casting quality just like in the sc2 scene. Since the sc2 scene is so small, criticism reaches the casters more easily and we have less casters that could kinda just do their thing and just ignore everyone else.
But also the role of a caster is much much smaller. In Germany you never see the face of the in-game caster and when you root for your team and watch with friends in a public place nobody listens to the caster anyway and excitement derives itself from the game and not from the casting. You really dont need to add much as a caster. Also when there a chants from the crowd or whatever its often the best move as a caster to just stfu and let the moment speak for itself.
But productionwise i think that traditional sports are still universes ahead with instant replays, highlight videos already prepared in the break /after the game, strategic analysis, multiple camera angles etc. pp.
I think esports casting has the advantage that they can be unconventional and dont have to be so comformist but i dont think they're ahead. It also helps that top sc2 casters are expected to maintain a high level of play themselves.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: Incontrol is especially guilty here. I think he's hilarious.. but he could probably be just as funny and also be a bit more professional.
Hmm..I don't watch so many US tournament streams any more but isn't he mostly (professional), apart from at Home Story Cup? I hope you're not basing his commentary on HSC!
Schelim -- Those people might care about e-sports because they ran across it at a friends house and were impressed by the insane casting and destruction and action going on. It happened recently where a friend of mine and I had a couple of tokes in my room, and I had an SC2 tourney on (as I almost always do). He basically sat there with his mouth wide-open, half-drooling while hypnotized by the casters and gamers doing their thing. Then he said "Holy shit, I never knew Starcraft was so intense!" I was so proud of SC2 at that moment! This was about a month ago. And the grass was good, but not THAT good, if you dig... The production straight mesmerized that man.
Why are comparing the world cup to starcraft casting? At least do basketball or something. Its hard for football to get hyped when the defenders advantage is so high, even when in scoring distance it rarely gets exciting. Besides local radio announcers for basketball Id say SC2 has the best appeal. But obviously we are dealing with .02% of production values as the big guys.
Also, I think perhaps in murica (I'm assuming you have your own broadcasts) you have very different casters if that's your view. You probably don't understand what this guy is saying, but here's some fucking hype for you
Maybe U.S casters Brazilians casters, and I 'm sure spanish, italians and english casters as well, would have a complete list of semi-important facts to tell the audience. Good line ups from all games between X and Y on the last 40 years, how they did on previous WCs (all of them of course), tactical diferences, players that we should keep an eye on, if the grass is more adequate for fast passes or long range trows and how it impacts the teams base on their rosters. Then.... the game starts... and we have 90+ minutes spotting misreads and plain mistakes done by coaches, all sort of statistics, strategies being used, short interviews with players leaving the field on half time or by substitution, referee analysis. I wanna see a SC2 caster doing this at the end of GSL. (sry already posted but still) + Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2014 05:13 BrieFanFiction wrote: Hello everyone, in this thread I would like us to hold a discussion comparing the World Cup and its casting quality to the high-end SC2 casting (eg: Dreamhack, MLG). I for one have noticed a few differences between arguably the world's most watched event, and SC2 casting, and what I've noticed has made me very proud. I personally think SC2 casting is far superior to the current world cup's English casting.
Sitting on my rear this summer having been unable to find a job, I've been watching 3 world cup games a day for the last week, and my god have I noticed something: The World Cup's English casting, commentators, and analyst desks are just plain weak compared to SC2's (again I'm referring to our big tourneys).
What I've noticed:
Music
World Cup: Exact same filler-content-song played each time ("Oh-way-yah" anyone?)
SC2: Different filler-content-songs played, most of which are pretty fresh. So fresh that a lot of chat channels will display the song name if you enter !song (or something similar) because song name requests are so common. Sorry, but I don't see large-scale demand for this weak FIFA World Cup soundtrack.
In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
Production
I am watching the World Cup live for free on ESPN3 (espn3.com for those who are interested, this is the only legal and free way to watch it in the US for all the games). Now, the online stream seems to be a secondary idea for ESPN seeing as most viewers will be watching in their televisions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing the same production as TV viewers but minus the advertisements. A lot of the World Cup's filler material is pretty sharp, I must say. There are close-ups of players making sharp-turns, then slow-mo as they kick the ball; replays of goals and penalty kicks, lots of close-ups of players screaming and fist-pumping. SC2 production has this filler material as well, but for some reason it doesn't pull me in like the World Cup's, perhaps because SC2 filler material is not as physical in nature (a fist pump from the sitting position doesn't do much to thrill me).
I think SC2 has an inherent disadvantage when it comes to relaying our intensity to the viewers at home, largely because our intensity is of a mental nature instead of a physical one. How we can remedy this, I don't know. Do you have any ideas?
Boundaries of Discussion
Although it's nice when threads take on their own lives, I want this thread to stay focused on the topic. The reason for this is because I want to crowd-source opinions about the world cup and SC2 production/casting, what we can do better, what they do better than us, what we do better than them, and what we can learn from the FIFA World Cup's production and casting.
What can we learn from the largest televised event in the world to help ourselves be more marketable to sponsors, and therefore enable our growth?
How do you think SC2 casting and production quality compares to the World Cup's?
Remember: The World Cup is currently playing, go watch it and then watch MLG and see how the casting compares. See how the production compares. See how much passion is imparted to you by the people on the other end of the cameras; then let's discuss it here and try to help our sport grow.
Sorry in advance if my post rambles a bit, I've had a few beers
This is pretty much the opposite of how I feel. I get boring while watching most SC2 casts because the casts aren't exciting. I like Apollo's casting for the most part, and Nathanias is pretty good. Artosis would be a cool guy to sit down and talk starcraft with, but I don't want to hear worthless bullshit or personal nonsense in the middle of a professional cast, which pretty much optimizes his and Tasteless' casts. I like Wolf and MonteCristo though. MoonGLaDe doesn't add anything for me except maybe a little bit of Zerg expertise, which I don't need to hear, but having him isn't a detriment.
As for World Cup casts, I love it. I can put in on in the background and listen to everything that's going on. I know what's going on, and there's huge build up when the casters see a play being built up. Once a goal happens, it's madness. Everyone and their dogs know about the goal. Not only that, but they are pretty much shouting the whole time, so it gives the game a large sense of intensity.
When Artosis is talking about his dog, I suddenly don't want to watch Zest vs TRUE anymore.... etc etc. (he didn't even cast that game, but you know what I'm getting at). When the casters are saying that my team's forwards are passing the ball, I immediately ignore the world around me because I know what opportunities lie in store.
I don't tend to listen to commentators that much in football. Most of the time I watch in company so that may play a big part. When I watch sc2 there seems to be a lot more down time, between games, first few minutes of everygame and periods when both players are passively macroing, so maybe casters play a bigger part in keeping the audience amused.
I do like however that e-sports is still a bit underground so has its own flavour and feels like casters can express themselves with a little more freedom than in a super professionalised sports such as football. I prefer colourful characters over grey cardboard cut outs any day.
You can watch at univision.com for free no network subscription is in spanish but watching soccer in spanish is like watching SC been commentated by korean casters, great
Completely disagree with OP. SC2 casting is solid and I enjoy it, but I often find the analysis in SC2 is overdone, and I appreciate professionalism in sports casting. Whenever I hear SC2 casting, I am always struck by how big the gap is between them and the professional sports world.
E-sports casters and professional sports come from vastly different backgrounds. E-sports comes from an organic growth from the community, while in professional sports it has developed to the point where I assume they come through some sort of media education and rise up through the ranks, from casting local events to the big stage (unless they are formal professionals). Also, the competition to become a caster for professional sports is much higher, and I imagine the money is a lot more.
That being said, I do think casters in the SC2 scene can do better with dramatizing things less and focusing more on accuracy of casting than on speculation. It gets old when EVERY moment is a "holy shit" moment. No, not every moment in an SC2 game can change the fate of the game.
By the way, Kaelaris banned? I'm guessing that's the fake Kaelaris then? Seemed like a perfectly fine post to me =P
On June 21 2014 08:13 Defenestrator wrote: Completely disagree with OP. SC2 casting is solid and I enjoy it, but I often find the analysis in SC2 is overdone, and I appreciate professionalism in sports casting. Whenever I hear SC2 casting, I am always struck by how big the gap is between them and the professional sports world.
I agree.
To me, casting doesn't get better than the NBA. Short, direct sentences during plays and a few stats during downtime. Hype when a big play comes along, but generally nothing over the top, since the audience also saw the play and enjoyed it. Commentators present their opinion in mostly a straightforward manner, and a short discussion takes place when they don't agree about something.
When I watch SC2 or Dota casts nowadays I often get too distracted since the casters and/or the commentators don't shut up for more than 5 seconds, it's bizarre.
What a surprise an American compareing SC2 to the World Cup.. lol, what a joke... you are getting more hilliarious everyday. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. It's a reason billions play football, hundreds of millions watch football and only a few thousand play and watch SC2. Everything is better in football - the entertaiment, the casting etc. You can be so subjective you want but the numbers tells the story.
Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
On June 21 2014 05:13 BrieFanFiction wrote: Hello everyone, in this thread I would like us to hold a discussion comparing the World Cup and its casting quality to the high-end SC2 casting (eg: Dreamhack, MLG). I for one have noticed a few differences between arguably the world's most watched event, and SC2 casting, and what I've noticed has made me very proud. I personally think SC2 casting is far superior to the current world cup's English casting.
Sitting on my rear this summer having been unable to find a job, I've been watching 3 world cup games a day for the last week, and my god have I noticed something: The World Cup's English casting, commentators, and analyst desks are just plain weak compared to SC2's (again I'm referring to our big tourneys).
What I've noticed:
Music
World Cup: Exact same filler-content-song played each time ("Oh-way-yah" anyone?)
SC2: Different filler-content-songs played, most of which are pretty fresh. So fresh that a lot of chat channels will display the song name if you enter !song (or something similar) because song name requests are so common. Sorry, but I don't see large-scale demand for this weak FIFA World Cup soundtrack.
In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
Production
I am watching the World Cup live for free on ESPN3 (espn3.com for those who are interested, this is the only legal and free way to watch it in the US for all the games). Now, the online stream seems to be a secondary idea for ESPN seeing as most viewers will be watching in their televisions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing the same production as TV viewers but minus the advertisements. A lot of the World Cup's filler material is pretty sharp, I must say. There are close-ups of players making sharp-turns, then slow-mo as they kick the ball; replays of goals and penalty kicks, lots of close-ups of players screaming and fist-pumping. SC2 production has this filler material as well, but for some reason it doesn't pull me in like the World Cup's, perhaps because SC2 filler material is not as physical in nature (a fist pump from the sitting position doesn't do much to thrill me).
I think SC2 has an inherent disadvantage when it comes to relaying our intensity to the viewers at home, largely because our intensity is of a mental nature instead of a physical one. How we can remedy this, I don't know. Do you have any ideas?
Boundaries of Discussion
Although it's nice when threads take on their own lives, I want this thread to stay focused on the topic. The reason for this is because I want to crowd-source opinions about the world cup and SC2 production/casting, what we can do better, what they do better than us, what we do better than them, and what we can learn from the FIFA World Cup's production and casting.
What can we learn from the largest televised event in the world to help ourselves be more marketable to sponsors, and therefore enable our growth?
How do you think SC2 casting and production quality compares to the World Cup's?
Remember: The World Cup is currently playing, go watch it and then watch MLG and see how the casting compares. See how the production compares. See how much passion is imparted to you by the people on the other end of the cameras; then let's discuss it here and try to help our sport grow.
Sorry in advance if my post rambles a bit, I've had a few beers
I don't get why you're complaining about the World Cup music when they have an anthem. Does anyone really rag on the HNIC theme? I sure as hell don't. I was mad as shit when it got changed and now I don't mind the new one.
As for some SC2 events they play generic stuff that could pass as Deadmau5 material. I think it's small beans.
As for the broadcasting in the World Cup. Are you listening to the same announcers as I am because it's non-stop story. They take you to so many places, which is better than saying player A kicks it to player B. They try to make it dramatic without having to raise their voice. That is a gift my friend. Doesn't mean I don't like it when people raise their voices in certain situations. Oranges to apples. They have to do things a little differently when it comes to soccer/football.
Do not even dare to try and parallel the production quality from ESPN to online streaming lol. Don't do it.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Football isn't easy. You're right about the sport having a very low barrier to entry compared to other sports though. Fun fact: more people register/play football in Canada more than any other sport. I'm sure a lot of you including a lot of Canadians didn't know that one.
On June 21 2014 05:20 FlowOfIdeas wrote: Plus I think tasteless/artosis have better synergy than any other sports casting duo/team.
If you could listen to the two french commentator for WWE I am pretty sure anyone would consider them the best caster duo ever. They are just hilarious and very entertaining, they are the only reason why I ever watched catch xD
On June 21 2014 05:20 FlowOfIdeas wrote: Plus I think tasteless/artosis have better synergy than any other sports casting duo/team.
If you could listen to the two french commentator for WWE I am pretty sure anyone would consider them the best caster duo ever. They are just hilarious and very entertaining, they are the only reason why I ever watched catch xD
yep, it comes down to what you get accustomed to at the end of the day. In all likelihood he's just accustomed to hearing their voices.
esports casting on streams is still the same we had with radio casts when we could not see the damn game live. Its like sports radio casts. they cant stop talking and talk, talk and talk. They cant just shut the fuck up (to say so) and let the game tell you the story. I see that the armys are engaging. I dont need a caster to tell me that the armys are engaging. And I dislike this a lot.
I do not want a caster talking with 500 words per minute. I dont need it too. Tell me what as I casual do not know or understand. Why he does this build, why changed the standard and went for this, why take a third and so on. But not
OH MY FUCKING GOOD FORCEFIELDS FORCEFIELDS BLINK BLINK STIM yadadadadadadadaYELLYELLYELLYELL. I am not blind. I can see this on the livestream.
ps: And I do not want useless hype. If something is good we will see it. If something is great we will cheer for it. And if something is straight up boring just dont say a damn thing. But it looks like casters think they have to talk all the time or they do a bad cast.
On June 21 2014 10:17 tadL wrote: esports casting on streams is still the same we had with radio casts when we could not see the damn game live. Its like sports radio casts. they cant stop talking and talk, talk and talk. They cant just shut the fuck up (to say so) and let the game tell you the story. I see that the armys are engaging. I dont need a caster to tell me that the armys are engaging. And I dislike this a lot.
I do not want a caster talking with 500 words per minute. I dont need it too. Tell me what as I casual do not know or understand. Why he does this build, why changed the standard and went for this, why take a third and so on. But not
OH MY FUCKING GOOD FORCEFIELDS FORCEFIELDS BLINK BLINK STIM yadadadadadadadaYELLYELLYELLYELL. I am not blind. I can see this on the livestream.
ps: And I do not want useless hype. If something is good we will see it. If something is great we will cheer for it. And if something is straight up boring just dont say a damn thing. But it looks like casters think they have to talk all the time or they do a bad cast.
I agree with your point on the constant talking. Pausing is an important skill to have when commentating a visual medium.
On June 21 2014 05:26 evaunit01 wrote: Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Yeah i just watch it in spanish. it shits all over everything else imho
Korean Starcraft casting >>> Spanish soccer/ football casting though
I dont understand Korean SC2 casting -- that is, I dont understand Korean, so I can't tell. I speak Spanish so it's really fun watching the SP announcers 'cause they're a lot less restricted on their opinions about players and stuff. They make jokes and call people names and other stuff so it can be pretty funny at times. From what I can tell, K-SC2 commentary is pretty serious, even though they yell a lot.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Basketball seems like a brainless sport where people run up and down a court making horrible noises with their trainers.
We can all make stupid posts about things we know next to nothing about.
While I have enjoyed some SCII casts, there is no absolutely no way SCII compares to the World Cup at all. One is a world wide event held every 4 years that has billions watching it and one hell of an atmosphere. SCII on the other hand is a niche market and has a much higher barrier to entry. In football, the rules are simple and anyone can get into it. You don't need any prior knowledge to understand a match, most casters have been doing the casting forever so they know what should/shouldn't be done compared to SCII casters (there goes that point lol) nd the games are exciting. I also love the world cup music. It's like a national anthem for the games. It becomes nostalgic so I hope they never change it! :D
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
well, that's like, you know, your opinion lol. Football is a beautiful game precisely of what you wrote. It's easy to get into and your skill will keep climbing as you practice. Technically, there's no upper ceiling because you could keep improving infinitely. Becoming faster, having better control, being able to read the situation and make the right call, team work etc... Not to mention seeing the amazing plays, the passion and the fact that it links people all over the world together.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Basketball seems like a brainless sport where people run up and down a court making horrible noises with their trainers.
We can all make stupid posts about things we know next to nothing about.
I was first team all state as a midfielder, granted I probably wasnt good enough to make a starter in college but I know plenty about football. The game would be better without offsides being a penalty. Would get rid of some of that stupendous defenders advantage. You basically cant burn someone one on one past college.
When you have an average of 2.3 goals scored per game, (world cup,) you have a high majority of games that end with one bad call or no call, which results in a free kick. So all that effort 90+ mins goes to waste because of a questionable call. I mean hell, the first game of this world cup was decided by a brazil player diving. And not only that if the game results in a tie, you simply do penalty kicks and remove anything resembling a team sport to a simple mechanical skill. Imagine if Basketball at the end of a tie was decided by whoever couldnt make the next free throw loses.
And perhaps the worst part of football is their is no coaching during the game, besides calling a sub, you have 15 minutes during half time to go over things. American Football the coach is probably the single biggest factor besides having a great QB. There are no plays in soccer other than positional battles. Basketball has 200+ plays, soccer has "give and go"? Free kick and Corners? Football is amazing because it has basically zero commercials and is by far imo the best sport for schools. But MLS and Premiere is so boring, remove offsides and you have a better game.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Basketball seems like a brainless sport where people run up and down a court making horrible noises with their trainers.
We can all make stupid posts about things we know next to nothing about.
I was first team all state as a midfielder, granted I probably wasnt good enough to make a starter in college but I know plenty about football. The game would be better without offsides being a penalty. Would get rid of some of that stupendous defenders advantage. You basically cant burn someone one on one past college.
When you have an average of 2.3 goals scored per game, (world cup,) you have a high majority of games that end with one bad call or no call, which results in a free kick. So all that effort 90+ mins goes to waste because of a questionable call. I mean hell, the first game of this world cup was decided by a brazil player diving. And not only that if the game results in a tie, you simply do penalty kicks and remove anything resembling a team sport to a simple mechanical skill. Imagine if Basketball at the end of a tie was decided by whoever couldnt make the next free throw loses.
And perhaps the worst part of football is their is no coaching during the game, besides calling a sub, you have 15 minutes during half time to go over things. American Football the coach is probably the single biggest factor besides having a great QB. There are no plays in soccer other than positional battles. Basketball has 200+ plays, soccer has "give and go"? Free kick and Corners? Football is amazing because it has basically zero commercials and is by far imo the best sport for schools. But MLS and Premiere is so boring, remove offsides and you have a better game.
I can tell how much you know about football just by reading this lol
In the end it comes down to personal preference.
EDIT: on topic, it depends a lot where you come from. Here in Brazil I think the casters do a great job hyping the match, but I never listened to a great deal of english casting.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Basketball seems like a brainless sport where people run up and down a court making horrible noises with their trainers.
We can all make stupid posts about things we know next to nothing about.
I was first team all state as a midfielder, granted I probably wasnt good enough to make a starter in college but I know plenty about football. The game would be better without offsides being a penalty. Would get rid of some of that stupendous defenders advantage. You basically cant burn someone one on one past college.
When you have an average of 2.3 goals scored per game, (world cup,) you have a high majority of games that end with one bad call or no call, which results in a free kick. So all that effort 90+ mins goes to waste because of a questionable call. I mean hell, the first game of this world cup was decided by a brazil player diving. And not only that if the game results in a tie, you simply do penalty kicks and remove anything resembling a team sport to a simple mechanical skill. Imagine if Basketball at the end of a tie was decided by whoever couldnt make the next free throw loses.
And perhaps the worst part of football is their is no coaching during the game, besides calling a sub, you have 15 minutes during half time to go over things. American Football the coach is probably the single biggest factor besides having a great QB. There are no plays in soccer other than positional battles. Basketball has 200+ plays, soccer has "give and go"? Free kick and Corners? Football is amazing because it has basically zero commercials and is by far imo the best sport for schools. But MLS and Premiere is so boring, remove offsides and you have a better game.
Just stop. Please. The whole argument is stupid and it is stupid for continuing it. Everything you are saying is just your very own opinion. The popularity of football alone shows people don't care about whatever flaws you think football has.
It is out of topic and extremely annoying to read and I am not even a damn football fan.
On topic, yes, like many other have said, the casting for world cup is horrible mostly in countries where it is not as popular, which is completely logical.
Each countries have their own casting style, same as sc2. Even between hong kong and china, the badminton tournament casting are extremely different.
But I have to agree that sc2 casting quality in general is very impressive. Some are better at live tournament (day9), some are just better online and some are great at both.
.. i MUTE !!! the world cup because the highly paid dont know 12 ? 16 ? german "casters" talk shit like nonstop, say wrong things dont see things and expect telling me which player have the ball, they really talk so much shit it HURTS listening ... sc2 is far far far far better ^^
On June 21 2014 08:56 AyaaLa wrote: What a surprise an American compareing SC2 to the World Cup.. lol, what a joke... you are getting more hilliarious everyday. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. It's a reason billions play football, hundreds of millions watch football and only a few thousand play and watch SC2. Everything is better in football - the entertaiment, the casting etc. You can be so subjective you want but the numbers tells the story.
EXPECT, that football casting is shit³ xD always was always is xD i wished i would get eurosport here, they have decent casters but SKY is worse then guys from street and the main channels here are even worse ...
I think the World Cup casting and SC2 casting has some similarities.
I think both sound very passionate. I guess it's because they are both fast paced games, whereas the same can not be said about golf or other slow or medium paced sports.
On June 21 2014 08:56 AyaaLa wrote: What a surprise an American compareing SC2 to the World Cup.. lol, what a joke... you are getting more hilliarious everyday. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. It's a reason billions play football, hundreds of millions watch football and only a few thousand play and watch SC2. Everything is better in football - the entertaiment, the casting etc. You can be so subjective you want but the numbers tells the story.
"My opinion is better than yours and you are ignorant because you don't share my opinion". Come on, really? You think comparing the numbers is all there is to it?
Sport commentator talk calmly. When they think, they are quiet and dont say "eh" or "um". When they hype they do it with emotion. No overreaction. Even when they talk fast you hear what they say.
They dont talk none-stop. They dont talk just for the sake of it.
On June 21 2014 08:56 AyaaLa wrote: What a surprise an American compareing SC2 to the World Cup.. lol, what a joke... you are getting more hilliarious everyday. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. It's a reason billions play football, hundreds of millions watch football and only a few thousand play and watch SC2. Everything is better in football - the entertaiment, the casting etc. You can be so subjective you want but the numbers tells the story.
"My opinion is better than yours and you are ignorant because you don't share my opinion". Come on, really? You think comparing the numbers is all there is to it?
clearly still butthurt about spains exist from the world cup (and their fall off the throne)
I actually watch or listen (even better) to the World Cup matches just so I can hear the Dutch commentators freak out. It's awesome. Listen to some other languages like the Brazilian cast, Dutch cast or German cast and you'll hear the hype you hear from Apollo or Day[9] in football.
Starcraft will never beat the World Cup in passion, I think goal celebrations are the reason I got into the sport. I think that a highly defensive sport is good because then it makes that one goal really valuable, and it fires passion in the enemy team because just that one goal could be the game.
Also, offsides exist because you can literally kick the ball from one side of the court to the other.
I prefer a more laid back style of commentating that is evident by the US WC casters. I don't need people constantly talking and yelling the entire time. I know enough of what's going on that the calmer approach during the majority of the match is what I want. When things get tense then they raise their casting to that level and it works great. I think SC2 casters are a bit too over eager in their approach. A lot of time what seems like commentary is just a raised voice level or faster commentating saying exactly what is happening on screen. Yes I see how the lings are positioned, thanks for screaming it to me.
I think a major advantage for the WC and other sports for that matter is the scale and ability to see the majority of the playing surface in the screen shot at once. I don't think you can solve this issue. While in football you can get a rough idea of what's going on at all times anywhere on the field, in SC2 the size of the maps to units would make you lose track if they zoomed to that same size.
Overall I think sc2 casting has come a long way, but it has a long way to go to maximize it's potential. You also have to take into account the time and money lead that other sports have. The broadcasts are more polished because they have the resources to dedicate to making it polished. The size of crews involved, and the equipment involved is mind blowing.
Thats not a fair assessment. It depends a lot on which channel and which country.
For example, you are right that ESPN soccer's commentary is terrible, but those from Sky Sport or StarSport Asia are pretty decent. Also theres a lot more of stats, tidbits and trivia in football than that in sc2, thus casters who do their homework surely entertain you better. Meanwhile, the like of Moletrap back in the day didnt know jack about the GSL he was casting.
Still theres one thing in common: Korean casters in SC & Brazilian/Spanish ones in football. Holyhell I dont understand shit about what they are spitting but Im definitely excited and into the game. Also back in the day some channels used to have a special sound effect whenever one team scores, like a circus sound with twisted team name iirc. Pretty awesome
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
Basketball seems like a brainless sport where people run up and down a court making horrible noises with their trainers.
We can all make stupid posts about things we know next to nothing about.
I was first team all state as a midfielder, granted I probably wasnt good enough to make a starter in college but I know plenty about football. The game would be better without offsides being a penalty. Would get rid of some of that stupendous defenders advantage. You basically cant burn someone one on one past college.
When you have an average of 2.3 goals scored per game, (world cup,) you have a high majority of games that end with one bad call or no call, which results in a free kick. So all that effort 90+ mins goes to waste because of a questionable call. I mean hell, the first game of this world cup was decided by a brazil player diving. And not only that if the game results in a tie, you simply do penalty kicks and remove anything resembling a team sport to a simple mechanical skill. Imagine if Basketball at the end of a tie was decided by whoever couldnt make the next free throw loses.
And perhaps the worst part of football is their is no coaching during the game, besides calling a sub, you have 15 minutes during half time to go over things. American Football the coach is probably the single biggest factor besides having a great QB. There are no plays in soccer other than positional battles. Basketball has 200+ plays, soccer has "give and go"? Free kick and Corners? Football is amazing because it has basically zero commercials and is by far imo the best sport for schools. But MLS and Premiere is so boring, remove offsides and you have a better game.
I dont know what game you are watching or claiming to have played, but it sure as hell is not football.
I don't agree, at least not here in sweden where most of the WC commentators are really good. Fotball is also more exiting imo, in SC you can kinda tell who's winning at any given moment by looking at supply, army size, upgrades, tech etc. and it's kinda hard to "play better" with what currently you have to eek out a win. In football the game can turn on an instant if one team pull of a great "attack". It's also symmetrical so it takes away the entire Protoss OP, Zerg OP, Taeja OP you often get you often get while watching SC2 games and someone wins (which comes with the asymmetrical nature of the game, we need more high level TvT though).
Ofc it depends on the country, but speaking of mine, even Russian SC2 casters (whom I particularly don't like) are better then Russian football commentators in my opinion... so I'll partly agree with OP.
I have to agree. I'm used to the Spanish casting of football, and the BBC English cast gets me on my nerves. They have seconds of simply silence, as if they just gave up commenting. It is flat out terrible.
I think sc2 casters need to be more technical and just overall inform the watchers more, because often, especially to new players, it's not obvious at all what's happening in the game and who has the advantage. Football is much more popular and much more obvious as to who is winning, the side that's able to make scoring opportunities is often on the advantage. Also, football matches last for a full 90 minutes along with half-time and stuff, so it's hard to keep up the chatter and excitement all game long.
What i despise is fake hype. Especially fake hype delivered seriously. WC commentary can be emotional because it really is exiting for a caster to comment on his national team. This is believable and does not seem fake to me. SC2 casting on the other hand can be cringeworthy. Stop tanking yourself so seriously. Who the fuck thought wearing suits to comment on two nerds playing a videogame against each other would be a good idea? In the last days I have seen a lot of german WC coverage. Very seldom do I see ties in this footage. There is a reason for that. Formal and serious is not fun. People watch the WC for fun.
The best SC2 casting I have seen was at HSC. The casting there is less "professional". There is a lot more real humor and at the same time there is often more real insight offered. The players and casters alike are more real and try less to imitate TV sport casts targeted at wider audiences. They do not try to fake emotions as much. The worst offenders in my opinion are the English proleague casters apart from moonglade.
How many people watching the world cup, are playing soccer by themselfes or have at least in the near past? And how much of the people watching sc2 streams are playing sc2 themself activly?
Next difference is, sc2 is way way way more complex then soccer, basicly u can tell anyone in 5 minutes the most important things of soccer and he can allready watch and understand whats going on in a soccer game....try that for sc2, wouldn t work, aber 5 minutes of explanations the person would still have absolutely no clue whats goin on in a sc2 game.
I wrote a post yesterday about how i think a lot of casters are not doing very well in knowing the game. And i still think this is true. A full time caster has to at least have the knowledge of a masters zerg, terran and protoss players since it maybe takes like 2 hours a day average on practice and informing yourself to be on that level. I just want to mention some good examples of casters in terms of knowledge, day9, apollo, wolf, rotterdam....
I don t want any super deep analysis in games, but at least proper knowledge, i think artosis was the best caster some years ago, nowadways if feels like hes playing and casting too many other games.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
i wanted to reply but than i saw "united states" and it would be a waste of time. this thread is really funny so thx to creator. A lot of bullshit in it. some pure internet gold.
On June 21 2014 09:08 Roswell wrote: Football is only the most popular sport, because its the easiest and cheapest to play. Not because it is the "beautiful game." How exciting to watch people pass a ball around for 90 minutes. The defenders advantage is such a buzzkill. It would be like if in Basketball you were only allowed to bring 3 players past your half court.
i wanted to reply but than i saw "united states" and it would be a waste of time. this thread is really funny so thx to creator. A lot of bullshit in it. some pure internet gold.
Rofl... on behalf of 1/6th of the global population, thank you for quickly identifying why that comment was so very pointless to reply to :D
On June 21 2014 23:07 aerlins wrote: you can not compare most sports with sc2.
How many people watching the world cup, are playing soccer by themselfes or have at least in the near past? And how much of the people watching sc2 streams are playing sc2 themself activly?
Next difference is, sc2 is way way way more complex then soccer, basicly u can tell anyone in 5 minutes the most important things of soccer and he can allready watch and understand whats going on in a soccer game....try that for sc2, wouldn t work, aber 5 minutes of explanations the person would still have absolutely no clue whats goin on in a sc2 game.
I wrote a post yesterday about how i think a lot of casters are not doing very well in knowing the game. And i still think this is true. A full time caster has to at least have the knowledge of a masters zerg, terran and protoss players since it maybe takes like 2 hours a day average on practice and informing yourself to be on that level. I just want to mention some good examples of casters in terms of knowledge, day9, apollo, wolf, rotterdam....
I don t want any super deep analysis in games, but at least proper knowledge, i think artosis was the best caster some years ago, nowadways if feels like hes playing and casting too many other games.
You absolutely can explain the basics of SC2 to someone in 5 minutes. "Use workers to gather resources, use resources to make buildings and then produce an army to go kill the opponents' buildings and army." A bronze level player can still watch SC2 and enjoy it without understanding all of the deep intricacies that go unnoticed to them.
On June 21 2014 23:07 aerlins wrote: you can not compare most sports with sc2.
How many people watching the world cup, are playing soccer by themselfes or have at least in the near past? And how much of the people watching sc2 streams are playing sc2 themself activly?
Next difference is, sc2 is way way way more complex then soccer, basicly u can tell anyone in 5 minutes the most important things of soccer and he can allready watch and understand whats going on in a soccer game....try that for sc2, wouldn t work, aber 5 minutes of explanations the person would still have absolutely no clue whats goin on in a sc2 game.
I wrote a post yesterday about how i think a lot of casters are not doing very well in knowing the game. And i still think this is true. A full time caster has to at least have the knowledge of a masters zerg, terran and protoss players since it maybe takes like 2 hours a day average on practice and informing yourself to be on that level. I just want to mention some good examples of casters in terms of knowledge, day9, apollo, wolf, rotterdam....
I don t want any super deep analysis in games, but at least proper knowledge, i think artosis was the best caster some years ago, nowadways if feels like hes playing and casting too many other games.
You absolutely can explain the basics of SC2 to someone in 5 minutes. "Use workers to gather resources, use resources to make buildings and then produce an army to go kill the opponents' buildings and army." A bronze level player can still watch SC2 and enjoy it without understanding all of the deep intricacies that go unnoticed to them.
Try explaining it to your grandmother, see how fast she can get what is going on.
You do need to factor in the differences between the games being played into your opinion of the casting quality...a soccer game is not going to have the same level hype because of the length and pace of the game...
On June 21 2014 23:07 aerlins wrote: you can not compare most sports with sc2.
How many people watching the world cup, are playing soccer by themselfes or have at least in the near past? And how much of the people watching sc2 streams are playing sc2 themself activly?
Next difference is, sc2 is way way way more complex then soccer, basicly u can tell anyone in 5 minutes the most important things of soccer and he can allready watch and understand whats going on in a soccer game....try that for sc2, wouldn t work, aber 5 minutes of explanations the person would still have absolutely no clue whats goin on in a sc2 game.
I wrote a post yesterday about how i think a lot of casters are not doing very well in knowing the game. And i still think this is true. A full time caster has to at least have the knowledge of a masters zerg, terran and protoss players since it maybe takes like 2 hours a day average on practice and informing yourself to be on that level. I just want to mention some good examples of casters in terms of knowledge, day9, apollo, wolf, rotterdam....
I don t want any super deep analysis in games, but at least proper knowledge, i think artosis was the best caster some years ago, nowadways if feels like hes playing and casting too many other games.
You absolutely can explain the basics of SC2 to someone in 5 minutes. "Use workers to gather resources, use resources to make buildings and then produce an army to go kill the opponents' buildings and army." A bronze level player can still watch SC2 and enjoy it without understanding all of the deep intricacies that go unnoticed to them.
Try explaining it to your grandmother, see how fast she can get what is going on.
She would know what's going on, but wouldn't know the significance of all the little individual dots on the screen. Red guy is trying to kill blue guy. It's not a tough concept, and my grandmother isn't senile...
This conversation is irrelevant to the topic though. The original person who brought it up did it senselessly imo.
On June 21 2014 22:42 submarine wrote: What i despise is fake hype. Especially fake hype delivered seriously. WC commentary can be emotional because it really is exiting for a caster to comment on his national team. This is believable and does not seem fake to me. SC2 casting on the other hand can be cringeworthy. Stop tanking yourself so seriously. Who the fuck thought wearing suits to comment on two nerds playing a videogame against each other would be a good idea? In the last days I have seen a lot of german WC coverage. Very seldom do I see ties in this footage. There is a reason for that. Formal and serious is not fun. People watch the WC for fun.
The best SC2 casting I have seen was at HSC. The casting there is less "professional". There is a lot more real humor and at the same time there is often more real insight offered. The players and casters alike are more real and try less to imitate TV sport casts targeted at wider audiences. They do not try to fake emotions as much. The worst offenders in my opinion are the English proleague casters apart from moonglade.
It's funny how much I utterly agree and disagree with what you have to say.
I totally despise fake hype as well. WC commentary can be emotional, but all football commentary can be... Like the OP said, the English commentary is not really emotional, so I don't think that's a valid point. SC2 casting is way too much nonsense and way too little hype. There are a few good casters (I find there too be much less than everyone else though, just because of my standards in what I want to hear from commentary), but way too many of them don't do what I believe to be their job well enough. HSC has "fun" casting, and everyone thinks highly of it, but I still had it on mute most of the time, just because I value other sounds sometimes. I don't want to hear people having fun, I want to hear commentary. Granted, a lot of ppl, including HSC have good casters involved, but that doesn't mean I get what I want out of their commentary.
Wolf I believe to be a pretty decent caster, and Montecristo as well, so I think that their casting desk (minus mOOnGLaDe who doesn't do anything for me) is pretty enjoyable to listen to. Although I've never liked Wolf's voice (as far as professional commentary is concerned, he seems like a cool guy and easy to be friends with), I still listen to to his commentary and not mute it. As far as Artosis is concerned, ESPECIALLY when casting with Tasteless, I'll listen to him between games, and not during games. They cram my ears with so many worthless things that I don't care about at all that I tend to mute them from time to time. Artosis without Tasteless is pretty decent though. Not anywhere near the level of a football caster though.
eSports isn't there yet, and with current trends, people who watch eSports don't seem to watch footballesc casters. I do, but it seems most people don't, and so I won't really be satisfied and I'll listen to my music while watching games ^_^
uruguayian and brasilian cast, nuff said about cast.
the thing is US to SC2 is not US to football. If u want an even match compare Korean cast with South america champions cast. ofc their are both super hype. But in the end its because what the casters say in SC2 matter and need understanding in Football the caster cant say that much about the build(Formation ) just that they will attack/defend more
On June 24 2014 08:43 Doodsmack wrote: You do need to factor in the differences between the games being played into your opinion of the casting quality...a soccer game is not going to have the same level hype because of the length and pace of the game...
the lack of strong players help + the fact that some are injured. Still I dk if because its my national team but Uruguay has a lot of things going in our games
On June 21 2014 22:42 submarine wrote: What i despise is fake hype. Especially fake hype delivered seriously. WC commentary can be emotional because it really is exiting for a caster to comment on his national team. This is believable and does not seem fake to me. SC2 casting on the other hand can be cringeworthy. Stop tanking yourself so seriously. Who the fuck thought wearing suits to comment on two nerds playing a videogame against each other would be a good idea? In the last days I have seen a lot of german WC coverage. Very seldom do I see ties in this footage. There is a reason for that. Formal and serious is not fun. People watch the WC for fun.
The best SC2 casting I have seen was at HSC. The casting there is less "professional". There is a lot more real humor and at the same time there is often more real insight offered. The players and casters alike are more real and try less to imitate TV sport casts targeted at wider audiences. They do not try to fake emotions as much. The worst offenders in my opinion are the English proleague casters apart from moonglade.
It's funny how much I utterly agree and disagree with what you have to say.
I totally despise fake hype as well. WC commentary can be emotional, but all football commentary can be... Like the OP said, the English commentary is not really emotional, so I don't think that's a valid point. SC2 casting is way too much nonsense and way too little hype. There are a few good casters (I find there too be much less than everyone else though, just because of my standards in what I want to hear from commentary), but way too many of them don't do what I believe to be their job well enough. HSC has "fun" casting, and everyone thinks highly of it, but I still had it on mute most of the time, just because I value other sounds sometimes. I don't want to hear people having fun, I want to hear commentary. Granted, a lot of ppl, including HSC have good casters involved, but that doesn't mean I get what I want out of their commentary.
Wolf I believe to be a pretty decent caster, and Montecristo as well, so I think that their casting desk (minus mOOnGLaDe who doesn't do anything for me) is pretty enjoyable to listen to. Although I've never liked Wolf's voice (as far as professional commentary is concerned, he seems like a cool guy and easy to be friends with), I still listen to to his commentary and not mute it. As far as Artosis is concerned, ESPECIALLY when casting with Tasteless, I'll listen to him between games, and not during games. They cram my ears with so many worthless things that I don't care about at all that I tend to mute them from time to time. Artosis without Tasteless is pretty decent though. Not anywhere near the level of a football caster though.
eSports isn't there yet, and with current trends, people who watch eSports don't seem to watch footballesc casters. I do, but it seems most people don't, and so I won't really be satisfied and I'll listen to my music while watching games ^_^
Sorry, I did not clearly really make my point about HSC casting, and you misunderstood me. What I liked in HSC casting was not the goofy humor. I prefer the less emotional and more analytical approach to casting mostly offered by European ex pros or current pros. You can actually learn something from watching Socke and Harstem cast a PvP even as a diamond+ player. The common caster instead calls out totally obvious stuff and tries to sell excitement. At least for me that does not really work with a computer game.
WC commentators (Dutch TV) are often very critical, constantly complaining that the teams are bad and disappointing. Also, it has a way stronger nationalistic slant. There are no attempts at analysis, this is left for the post-game. Personally I think Starcraft casts are better by necessity, because without good casters the game isn't as fun to watch, while I don't mind watching football even without casting. (And Starcraft attracts smarter people, which is reflected in the casting, imo)
Football is easy to understand and you don't need to have it interpreted to you by a commentator. I think the best commentators understand this and leave room for you to enjoy the ambiance and the crowd noises.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
This is exactly what I was thinking (note: I am an American). None of the OP really applies to World Cup broadcasts outside of the U.S.
It applies to french and swiss broadcasts though.
Watch the italian broadcast.
Or BBC (which is what I do since I barely understand italian)
Well tbh football is generally pretty boring to watch. Ofc once in a while you have sick games with a lot of chances, but those come pretty care. Typically it's only fun to watch when you have a relationship to some of the players/the teams. Just watching random teams play is generally unfun, unlike Sc2, that often times produce relatively entertaining games with unknown players (though ofc I still prefer watching my favourites in Sc2 as well).
On June 21 2014 23:07 aerlins wrote: you can not compare most sports with sc2.
How many people watching the world cup, are playing soccer by themselfes or have at least in the near past? And how much of the people watching sc2 streams are playing sc2 themself activly?
Next difference is, sc2 is way way way more complex then soccer, basicly u can tell anyone in 5 minutes the most important things of soccer and he can allready watch and understand whats going on in a soccer game....try that for sc2, wouldn t work, aber 5 minutes of explanations the person would still have absolutely no clue whats goin on in a sc2 game.
I wrote a post yesterday about how i think a lot of casters are not doing very well in knowing the game. And i still think this is true. A full time caster has to at least have the knowledge of a masters zerg, terran and protoss players since it maybe takes like 2 hours a day average on practice and informing yourself to be on that level. I just want to mention some good examples of casters in terms of knowledge, day9, apollo, wolf, rotterdam....
I don t want any super deep analysis in games, but at least proper knowledge, i think artosis was the best caster some years ago, nowadways if feels like hes playing and casting too many other games.
You absolutely can explain the basics of SC2 to someone in 5 minutes. "Use workers to gather resources, use resources to make buildings and then produce an army to go kill the opponents' buildings and army." A bronze level player can still watch SC2 and enjoy it without understanding all of the deep intricacies that go unnoticed to them.
this is way to basic to explain a RTS game to someone that has absolutely no idea about RTS games at all. I could say, "only using ur feets u have to shoot the ball in the enemies goal", and even someone with absolutely no idea about soccer would be able to understand this basic sentence....
Anyway, a bronze leage player, that played like 100 games, has still a way deeper knowledge about sc2 then the average person watching soccer has about soccer.
Fact is, a big majority of the people watching sc2 know a lot about the game, probably have played it before.....the average person watching world cup, doesn t even watch soccer all year long.
EPT
