Hello everyone, in this thread I would like us to hold a discussion comparing the World Cup and its casting quality to the high-end SC2 casting (eg: Dreamhack, MLG). I for one have noticed a few differences between arguably the world's most watched event, and SC2 casting, and what I've noticed has made me very proud. I personally think SC2 casting is far superior to the current world cup's English casting.
Sitting on my rear this summer having been unable to find a job, I've been watching 3 world cup games a day for the last week, and my god have I noticed something: The World Cup's English casting, commentators, and analyst desks are just plain weak compared to SC2's (again I'm referring to our big tourneys).
What I've noticed:
Music
World Cup: Exact same filler-content-song played each time ("Oh-way-yah" anyone?)
SC2: Different filler-content-songs played, most of which are pretty fresh. So fresh that a lot of chat channels will display the song name if you enter !song (or something similar) because song name requests are so common. Sorry, but I don't see large-scale demand for this weak FIFA World Cup soundtrack.
In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
Production
I am watching the World Cup live for free on ESPN3 (espn3.com for those who are interested, this is the only legal and free way to watch it in the US for all the games). Now, the online stream seems to be a secondary idea for ESPN seeing as most viewers will be watching in their televisions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm seeing the same production as TV viewers but minus the advertisements. A lot of the World Cup's filler material is pretty sharp, I must say. There are close-ups of players making sharp-turns, then slow-mo as they kick the ball; replays of goals and penalty kicks, lots of close-ups of players screaming and fist-pumping. SC2 production has this filler material as well, but for some reason it doesn't pull me in like the World Cup's, perhaps because SC2 filler material is not as physical in nature (a fist pump from the sitting position doesn't do much to thrill me).
I think SC2 has an inherent disadvantage when it comes to relaying our intensity to the viewers at home, largely because our intensity is of a mental nature instead of a physical one. How we can remedy this, I don't know. Do you have any ideas?
Boundaries of Discussion
Although it's nice when threads take on their own lives, I want this thread to stay focused on the topic. The reason for this is because I want to crowd-source opinions about the world cup and SC2 production/casting, what we can do better, what they do better than us, what we do better than them, and what we can learn from the FIFA World Cup's production and casting.
What can we learn from the largest televised event in the world to help ourselves be more marketable to sponsors, and therefore enable our growth?
How do you think SC2 casting and production quality compares to the World Cup's?
Remember: The World Cup is currently playing, go watch it and then watch MLG and see how the casting compares. See how the production compares. See how much passion is imparted to you by the people on the other end of the cameras; then let's discuss it here and try to help our sport grow.
Sorry in advance if my post rambles a bit, I've had a few beers
This sounds pretty accurate. I've been thinking for a long time that Starcraft production value can rival that of any sports league. Plus I think tasteless/artosis have better synergy than any other sports casting duo/team.
I assume you mean the American broadcasts? ESPN? British casters, which is what ESPN is using now for World Cup, always err on the side of being super-professional. Which is better than when they used American casters, who were always just bored. Listen to the Spanish World Cup casts. Now THAT is excitement.
Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
I agree that the in-game commentary usually is worse at engaging me to watch all the time, but what you have to remember is that football games are 90 minutes more or less in one go, and you can't keep up that level of excitement for that duration of time. The casting (I watch swedish television) is more relaxed and adapted to a more relaxed viewing habit. I have the World Cup on at almost all times in the background of what I'm currently doing, sometimes checking in for larger chunks of time.
What is the biggest discrepancy for me between watching say DH and the WC is the in-between filler material and studio production. The flow between games and analysis and interviews and video clips of teams' history and experts giving their opinion on a special player and plain banter is a lot better than in SC2 events. Everyone seems more relaxed and used to what they're doing, and there's a lot more material prepared for them to work with.
Separating casters and analysts/studio guys is one thing that makes a huge difference here.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
This is exactly what I was thinking (note: I am an American). None of the OP really applies to World Cup broadcasts outside of the U.S.
On June 21 2014 05:26 evaunit01 wrote: Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Yeah i just watch it in spanish. it shits all over everything else imho
I've been watching the world cup on univision deportes in the US, I don't speak Spanish very well but I very much prefer listening to the Spanish casters rather than the US since they do a good job with making plays sound exciting. Kind of the same reason I really enjoyed listening to Korean casts of BW.
So, to start this off, my Father is a very honest person, no BS.
He's been a long time Football fan, ever since childhood, and has watched the sport, as well as many others ever since. I got a call from him a few months ago just for a routine check in, see how everything's going in the UK etc, around the time he was watching the Winter Olympics.. whenever that was. Anyway, he's watched quite a lot of my casts, and understand how the flow of our casting goes. So he mentions to me during this call that ever since he's watched a few of our casts, Traditional spots commentators do very little for him in terms of hype, ever. Sure they're relatively informative before and after the game, and an ex-pro may brake down a goal or something for like 20-30 seconds every so often, but he said something I really enjoyed, which was..
"Your type of commentary is the future of Sports casting"
Maybe he was being a bit dramatic, but I think eSports commentators relate with the audience much better.
EDIT: Dammit I posted on the wrong account.. (usual one is mouzKaelaris)
On June 21 2014 05:26 evaunit01 wrote: Yeah i watch them in Spanish for free, Univision is streaming in 720p all of the matches pre-quarter finals. They know how to cast, reminds me of Korean sc casters, all of that enthusiasm.
Yeah i just watch it in spanish. it shits all over everything else imho
Korean Starcraft casting >>> Spanish soccer/ football casting though
On June 21 2014 05:47 Logikz wrote: I've been watching the world cup on univision deportes in the US, I don't speak Spanish very well but I very much prefer listening to the Spanish casters rather than the US since they do a good job with making plays sound exciting. Kind of the same reason I really enjoyed listening to Korean casts of BW.
Same here, I understand words and phrases but not the hundreds of words per minute that the casters speak at. Very exciting though.
On June 21 2014 05:49 Kaelaris wrote: Small story to tell.
So, to start this off, my Father is a very honest person, no BS.
He's been a long time Football fan, ever since childhood, and has watched the sport, as well as many others ever since. I got a call from him a few months ago just for a routine check in, see how everything's going in the UK etc, around the time he was watching the Winter Olympics.. whenever that was. Anyway, he's watched quite a lot of my casts, and understand how the flow of our casting goes. So he mentions to me during this call that ever since he's watched a few of our casts, Traditional spots commentators do very little for him in terms of hype, ever. Sure they're relatively informative before and after the game, and an ex-pro may brake down a goal or something for like 20-30 seconds every so often, but he said something I really enjoyed, which was..
"Your type of commentary is the future of Sports casting"
Maybe he was being a bit dramatic, but I think eSports commentators relate with the audience much better.
EDIT: Dammit I posted on the wrong account.. (usual one is mouzKaelaris)
Reported for multiple account abuse. For shame.
Just kidding :D interesting anecdote! I generally prefer eSports casting to most sports casting.
On June 21 2014 05:13 BrieFanFiction wrote: In-Game Casting
In my opinion, the World Cup's in-game casting is absolutely terrible. The casters build almost no hype; they just sit there most of the time twiddling their thumbs and occasionally naming the players who are passing the ball. By the time a goal comes around, the vibe is so dead that the caster can barely even get excited, which leaves us fans too emotionally flat. Let's compare that casting style with SC2's casting where throughout the game premium casters like Artosis, Apollo, Kaelaris, Nathanias (yep, I consider him a top caster now after his performance at Dreamhack) will build hype throughout the game and then straight-up do a controlled freak-out when the battles begin. The vocal ranges, controlled shouting, and intensity provided by SC2's casters is simply incredible to whatever this World Cup jazz is. The game knowledge being spouted off by the casters is just incredible sometimes.
Apollo (made-up example): The last time Violet played Scarlett was 4 weeks and 13 days ago and Violet all-inned 3 times in a Bo5 to take the win, however that was on (random map) and this is (random map) which doesn't quite favor those kind of tactics as much. I predict a greedy macro style from Violet because he doesn't think Scarlett will expect it.
World Cup Casters (example): The last time France played Switzerland was in the 1992 world cup; France did not quite pass muster.
This is sooo much dependant on where you watch and all ....
Belgium commentators do a reall good job of hyping during the game and all, i love hearing them.
On June 21 2014 05:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Strange that an American, a late comer to the World Cup party, doesn't seem to realise that the vast majority of the audience don't listen to the American broadcast or even have English as their first language. Time to take off your blinkers and broaden your mind a little I think.
This is exactly what I was thinking (note: I am an American). None of the OP really applies to World Cup broadcasts outside of the U.S.
On June 21 2014 05:34 SatedSC2 wrote: Any good British commentator worth listening to works in England for one of the big English broadcasters. For the World Cup this is BBC and ITV, but more generally its Sky Sports and BT Sports. Commentators on American channels are bad because they're generally the ones who couldn't get a job in Britain (or they're actually American, which is even worse!)
What's ironic is current ESPN commentator for World Cup (mainly USA + big matches) used to work at Sky and still has a job at BT sports.
Anyway, comparing the SC2 casters to World Cup (or most sports) commentators is stupid. World Cup (for ESPN) uses a standard play-by-play + color commentator combination and most SC2 casters are a combination of the two.
World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. At least in the rest of the world (though it's really picking up in the US).
I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games. Incontrol is especially guilty here. I think he's hilarious.. but he could probably be just as funny and also be a bit more professional.
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
PS
That, and SERIOUSLY, stop talking about prize money. It makes the competition seem so petty in comparison to other sports. I know how much the winner of every single StarCraft match is going to win because they keep rubbing it in our face, but can you name any other sport where prize money is mentioned anywhere near this often? Nope.
On June 21 2014 06:08 DinoMight wrote: World Cup doesn't need hyping. People are excited enough for it as is. I think StarCraft needs a bit more professionalism in the casting. Cut out the cursing, buttoned up shirts, etc. Make it look like it's more than just a few guys in a room streaming video games
Proleague does a fantastic job I think. That looks like the real deal.
strongly disagree. whenever i see a bunch of uncomfortable nerds in suits that just don't look like they belong to them and they try and act all "professional", it makes me want to turn off the stream. if a caster wants to wear a suit and they seem comfortable in it and with the whole professional thing, sure, go for it. works really well for Kaelaris and Total Biscuit, for example. but i don't think e-sports should take itself so super seriously that everybody has to wear a suit and tie to... sit in front of a computer and talk about a video game. nonsense imo. look how awkward Day9 looks in a suit, not to mention Apollo.
EPT
