EPTOn May 30 2014 02:50 GGzerG wrote:
God is in this tournament so ....it's a must watch. ^^
God is in this tournament so ....it's a must watch. ^^
Elfi's playing? I thought they weren't inviting foriegners...
Yeah I'm going to hell.
The Sandisk SHOUTcraft Invitational - $10,000 - Page 21
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
Elfi's playing? I thought they weren't inviting foriegners... Yeah I'm going to hell. | ||
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ChooChooChua
12 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5524 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:21 ChooChooChua wrote: I'm scarred for Flash. Ritualized scarring is pretty intense dedication my friendo | ||
digmouse
China6331 Posts
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WiggyB
United Kingdom103 Posts
All we need now is Maru, and we have, IMO, the three best terrans in the world at the moment. This is going to be sooooo sick. On May 30 2014 01:38 Noonius wrote: makes one wonder what kind of a pull TB has with KeSPA to get player lineup like this. Must have been long time in the making or mountains of kimchi as kickbacks Well, remember, TB is not only an awesome member of the community. He is also the owner of a Korean team. A korean team that won the last GSTL. He's kind of a big deal... I'd imagine KeSPA, at the very least, respect TB for his position in SC2, at the most, listen to what he has to say about the foreign audience. He clearly knows what he's on about. He's be saying for ages the korean scene needs to be more inclusive for foreigner fans. TB's like "Well, if you won't do it. I fucking will". | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
But that's just me thinking, only TB knows for sure if the guys want to play in PL. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:30 WiggyB wrote: Bbyong did really well in the proleague finals for CJ. Taking soulkey and parting if I remember correctly? All we need now is Maru, and we have, IMO, the three best terrans in the world at the moment. This is going to be sooooo sick. Well, remember, TB is not only an awesome member of the community. He is also the owner of a Korean team. A korean team that won the last GSTL. He's kind of a big deal... I'd imagine KeSPA, at the very least, respect TB for his position in SC2, at the most, listen to what he has to say about the foreign audience. He clearly knows what he's on about. He's be saying for ages the korean scene needs to be more inclusive for foreigner fans. TB's like "Well, if you won't do it. I fucking will". I'd guess word of mouth among the Korean players might have something to do with it. The Axiom players seems to be treated pretty well and that probably gets around in the Korean scene. Respect and credibility would probably be important to be able to make something like this happen. Whatever is the case I hope it will be successful and we might be seeing more of these kinds of online tournaments with top Korean's in them. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:37 felisconcolori wrote: This could also be a way of Kespa getting a relationship with the owner of a popular team with the global audience and as a way to give an option to put Axiom in Proleague. But that's just me thinking, only TB knows for sure if the guys want to play in PL. Proleague is not worth playing if you're not a KeSPA team. The whole league is ingeniously designed to be a massive promotional tool for KeSPAs members. Unlike foreign teams, the KeSPA sponsors are the people that run both KeSPA and the teams themselves, they are directly involved in every day decision making, up to and including who plays in what tournament. This level of control and their focus on the Korean market means that Proleague is a massive promotional vehicle for their brands and generates extremely good ROI. Notice that every KeSPA team (not counting the recent refugees from eSF) is named after their title sponsor? The KeSPA teams are extensions of their sponsors brands and Proleague is the vehicle they use to deliver that message to the masses. Here's what happens if you're not one of those brands. Your exposure is very limited. Proleagues viewership isn't amazing in foreign territories due to the time it runs. WCS is a lot better for that kind of thing. On top of that, you need 1) a large team to be effective, larger than Axiom certainly. We are too small, we'd be analyzed to death by KeSPA teams coaching staff, we don't have the resources they do. 2) a team that is willing to be grounded in Korea for the entire season. Even much larger teams don't send many of their players out to foreign events. Our guys would have to give up WCS America, which is an almost guaranteed paycheque every season, we wouldn't be able to attend many foreign events at all due to Proleague. We don't have Korean sponsors, so us being in Proleague that's marketed towards the Korean audience wouldn't benefit our sponsors all that much. Our focus up to this point has been on turning our players into household names in the foreign fanbase, which has worked fairly well up to this point. Entering Proleague even with a coalition team would be for little more than glory. It's hubris and not conducive to a sustainable team. You saw what it did to EG-TL, it's a fools errand if you're not already a KeSPA team. I hope Proleague keeps on going, it's amazing and KeSPA set up a really smart system to make sure their teams are sustainable, but the downside of that is that coming in from the outside isn't generally beneficial. | ||
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Ace Frehley
2030 Posts
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Rescawen
Finland1028 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:27 digmouse wrote: Thanks TB for letting Neotv on board for this, really good choice. yesss! neotv! | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
Also this: On May 30 2014 04:26 TotalBiscuit wrote: Proleague is a massive promotional vehicle for their brands and generates extremely good ROI makes me very happy. Means we're going to have PL for years and years :D | ||
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
On May 30 2014 04:26 TotalBiscuit wrote: Proleague is not worth playing if you're not a KeSPA team. The whole league is ingeniously designed to be a massive promotional tool for KeSPAs members. Unlike foreign teams, the KeSPA sponsors are the people that run both KeSPA and the teams themselves, they are directly involved in every day decision making, up to and including who plays in what tournament. This level of control and their focus on the Korean market means that Proleague is a massive promotional vehicle for their brands and generates extremely good ROI. Notice that every KeSPA team (not counting the recent refugees from eSF) is named after their title sponsor? The KeSPA teams are extensions of their sponsors brands and Proleague is the vehicle they use to deliver that message to the masses. Here's what happens if you're not one of those brands. Your exposure is very limited. Proleagues viewership isn't amazing in foreign territories due to the time it runs. WCS is a lot better for that kind of thing. On top of that, you need 1) a large team to be effective, larger than Axiom certainly. We are too small, we'd be analyzed to death by KeSPA teams coaching staff, we don't have the resources they do. 2) a team that is willing to be grounded in Korea for the entire season. Even much larger teams don't send many of their players out to foreign events. Our guys would have to give up WCS America, which is an almost guaranteed paycheque every season, we wouldn't be able to attend many foreign events at all due to Proleague. We don't have Korean sponsors, so us being in Proleague that's marketed towards the Korean audience wouldn't benefit our sponsors all that much. Our focus up to this point has been on turning our players into household names in the foreign fanbase, which has worked fairly well up to this point. Entering Proleague even with a coalition team would be for little more than glory. It's hubris and not conducive to a sustainable team. You saw what it did to EG-TL, it's a fools errand if you're not already a KeSPA team. I hope Proleague keeps on going, it's amazing and KeSPA set up a really smart system to make sure their teams are sustainable, but the downside of that is that coming in from the outside isn't generally beneficial. Interesting. So you don't think that there is anything to gain for your team, or the players on your team, by participating in proleague - even if you managed to do very well? Or is the point that you couldn't make it work due to finances, sacrifices and study involved. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Ritualized scarring is pretty intense dedication my friendo It takes a lot to get a bigger scar than Flash's. So I trust you are very... scarred... | ||
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digmouse
China6331 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + It's not like there are other choices too, nobody casts sc2 on a daily basis other than them anyways | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 30 2014 05:03 caznitch wrote: Interesting. So you don't think that there is anything to gain for your team, or the players on your team, by participating in proleague - even if you managed to do very well? Or is the point that you couldn't make it work due to finances, sacrifices and study involved. If you win Proleague you get $47,000, just a little more than what we got for winning GSTL. There's also a smaller prize ($14k) for each Round playoff win. The tournament runs for more than half a year. Prize money wise it's not particularly good, especially since you're splitting it with the entire team. The reason these teams play Proleague is because Proleague was created by KeSPA as a way to market their brands. If you can't market your brand there then you are in a situation where you are locked down in Korea for 8 months, playing in an event that doesn't get that many foreign viewers compared to something like WCS, giving up opportunities all over the globe as well as WCS outside of Korea and the returns on it even if you actually won, are not that great. Let's say we won Proleague, yeah that's impressive, but does that get us more sponsors? We won GSTL, it didn't get us any more sponsors. We've been placing highly all year round in tournaments, the sponsors don't seem to care. Unless we committed big time to trying to get Korean sponsors (and the existing teams are already struggling to do that), Proleague for us would be a really bad business move and probably end up killing the team. Proleague is great for KeSPA teams, a win in Proleague is a massive boost to the respective brand, as it should be, because KeSPA is the one who runs it, not so good for everyone else. | ||
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WiggyB
United Kingdom103 Posts
May I ask a few questions about how this came about? The tournament I mean. What's you relationship to KeSPA? Was there any resistance to this, or were they happy to work with you? Is this a move to try and make KeSPA more foreign friendly? Or were you just like "I wanna make a sick tournament with the best players in the world!"? | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 30 2014 06:28 WiggyB wrote: That's really interesting,Thanks for the insight TB. May I ask a few questions about how this came about? The tournament I mean. What's you relationship to KeSPA? Was there any resistance to this, or were they happy to work with you? Is this a move to try and make KeSPA more foreign friendly? Or were you just like "I wanna make a sick tournament with the best players in the world!"? The tournament came about through talks with Sandisk and their desire to test the waters with eSports. I'm an established brand and have a track record of delivering a proven product, so it made sense for their initial budget to be spent on a tournament. I've been wanting to do SHOUTcraft Korea for ages, because right now I firmly believe that Koreans actually have very limited opportunities inside their own country. GSL and Proleague are the only games in town. If you want to play online cups you have to play on other servers, often at awful times of night, dealing with lag and the language barrier. I wanted to do something specifically in Korea and also connect with the Korean audience. I don't have a formal relationship with KeSPA as an organization, I have relationships with some of the KeSPA teams. There was no resistance to it, only a case of some teams declining the offer because they were focusing on Proleague, which is completely understandable. By the end of it were able to secure 4 great players from KeSPA teams and 4 players from other teams who were all top-notch. I hope if anything this is a proof of concept and it may lead to a more formal relationship with KeSPA and further cooperation. I want to make it clear, as it was with Axiom, that we are coming to help the scene rather than meddle in it. | ||
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
By the end of it were able to secure 4 great players from KeSPA teams Do Life and Hero count as these Kespa players ? (Startale & Liquid but playing for Incredible Miracle in SPL) | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 30 2014 06:49 djraphi23 wrote: Do Life and Hero count as these Kespa players ? (Startale & Liquid but playing for Incredible Miracle in SPL) No I'm not counting them. When I say "KeSPA" team I refer to the originals, rather than the teams that recently joined for Proleague. | ||
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
Also in regards to ProLeague, would there ever be a chance for Impact to be involved as a small kind of partnership a la Liquid HerO with IM seeing as he's focused on competing in Korea or would you rather have him for DreamHacks and IEMs? | ||
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