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On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game.
No, Duh.
They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players.
In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over.
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How about making abduct immune to biological?
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On May 07 2014 02:51 Wolfstan wrote:
How about making abduct immune to biological?
Effectively disabling it against Zerg?
And making it unusable verse DT/HT/Zealots or Ghosts in those rare occasions?
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United States5162 Posts
I hate abduct as an ability, so I'd be fine with them making it not work on massive while buffing the other spells.
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I don't remember who suggested this, I think it might have been Snute, but just making spores do bonus damage to biological light units only would be so much better than these suggestions.
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On May 07 2014 02:55 Boogie with Stu wrote:
I don't remember who suggested this, I think it might have been Snute, but just making spores do bonus damage to biological light units only would be so much better than these suggestions.
i have been saying literally since the spore buff first came out that it should have been against mutas only. everyone told me that that was "bad design". now we have stephano zvz 
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On May 07 2014 02:55 Boogie with Stu wrote:
I don't remember who suggested this, I think it might have been Snute, but just making spores do bonus damage to biological light units only would be so much better than these suggestions.
In that case, I'm all for 30 vs Biological and a +2 vs (bio) anti air buff for Hydralisk
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I hope some version of the hydra/spore change goes through. It was kinda silly seeing SH comps wreck BLs and I do miss seeing mutas in the match-up.
I also echo the sentiment of a lot of zerg players here in that Zerg T3 desperately needs looking into. Not sure how you can balance BLs and Ultras w/o making them snowball so hard, but I can't even remember the last time a series was decided by those units.
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On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over.
I meant they won't do any big changes in the expansion either.
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On May 07 2014 02:56 ssxsilver wrote:
I hope some version of the hydra/spore change goes through. It was kinda silly seeing SH comps wreck BLs and I do miss seeing mutas in the match-up.
I also echo the sentiment of a lot of zerg players here in that Zerg T3 desperately needs looking into. Not sure how you can balance BLs and Ultras w/o making them snowball so hard, but I can't even remember the last time a series was decided by those units.
When they're at it, let them look at Sieged Tanks, Thors , Ghosts v Z/T and BCs 
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Massive units immune to Viper would cause problems vs P and T.
I don't play ZvZ and it doesn't affect me, but... having to buff Hydras' anti air to biological units to deal with Swarm Hosts being boring?? Seems like they're approaching it the wrong way.
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On May 07 2014 02:57 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over. I meant they won't do any big changes in the expansion either.
Where did you acquire that future sight of yours?
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I think they should just release a patch: "Broodlords are immune to abduct". Give them a passive like the Ultralisk, that says exactly that and be done with it. I don't think anybody would complain.
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On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over.
This type of excuse has got to stop. The game has had severe balance issues more then a few times over the years and many players were "fucked over", sometimes by Blizzards reluctance to act (BL/Inf for one).
If there is ever an acceptable reason to do potentially destabilizing changes is when those changes are for the greater good of the game. SC2 is not some Holly Grail of balance and entertainment that should not be disturbed.
If they are not doing more serious changes is because they can't or don't want to in order to keep them for the expansion, not the poor x race players.
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I agree 100% with the Hydra buff, so tired of who gets the spire first etc. But what about the swarm host? that does not mean there will be no games where both players will opt to get swarm hosts.....
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On May 07 2014 02:58 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:57 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over. I meant they won't do any big changes in the expansion either. Where did you acquire that future sight of yours?
By looking at what they changed in HotS.
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I am happy Blizzard is thinking about this, but their biggest error is the seeming assumption that swarm hosts are only a problem in ZvZ. Yes, we've seen a few swarm host stalemate ZvZ lately (thanks Stephano), but we've seen much more ZvP (and even probably more ZvT) dragged out swarm host games than in ZvZ. Swarm Host vs Swarm Host may be more obviously ridiculous than Swarm Host vs. colossus/tempest or Swarm Host vs. tank/raven, but they're all equally dumb and boring. In the long term, it should just be removed and replaced with another unit.
In the short term, just place a cap on swarm hosts. A player isn't allowed to have more than 10 swarm hosts out at a time (the number can be adjusted up or down a little bit). Done. 20 locusts is still a strong amount to integrate INTO a composition like we see from players who are, you know, good at something other than turtling (watch the recent Soulkey vs Flash SPL game).
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On May 07 2014 03:01 Moonsalt wrote:
I agree 100% with the Hydra buff, so tired of who gets the spire first etc. But what about the swarm host? that does not mean there will be no games where both players will opt to get swarm hosts.....
Since they would nerf the spore, you could counter them with Broodlords is what they are saying.
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On May 07 2014 02:58 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:57 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over. I meant they won't do any big changes in the expansion either. Where did you acquire that future sight of yours?
It's called "daed game" sight. Only the most powerful community members are blessed with it.
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On May 07 2014 03:00 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:50 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:48 Noocta wrote:On May 07 2014 02:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 07 2014 02:45 Musicus wrote:
My worry is, if they once again ignore the SH and instead change other units to counter it, what happnes once they tackle the root of the problem and change or remove it with LotV? Do they change Abduct or the Hydra back again? It's an expansion, they can do anything. They can but they won't. It's obvious at this point David Kim doesn't want or can't change anything deep from the game. No, Duh. They're in the middle of the WCS season. Deleting/Nerfing/Redesigning a unit that is getting reasonable use in three matchups, not to mention it's necessity verse turtleToss, is the best way to fuck over a lot of Zerg players. In expansion, he'll get a new beta and will be able to test big changes. You can't blame the guy for not fucking every Zerg competing for money over. This type of excuse has got to stop. The game has had severe balance issues more then a few times over the years and many players were "fucked over", sometimes by Blizzards reluctance to act (BL/Inf for one). If there is ever an acceptable reason to do potentially destabilizing changes is when those changes are for the greater good of the game. SC2 is not some Holly Grail of balance and entertainment that should not be disturbed. If they are not doing more serious changes is because they can't or don't want to in order to keep them for the expansion, not the poor x race players.
You know, on one hand there's people complaining balancing happens to often. Then there's people that want Blizzard to respond to every tiny fucking shift in winrates possible.
Offcourse they will not mess with balance for the reason of redesigning a unit because it gives problems in a tiny percentage of mirror matchups!
Broodlord Infestor was so hard to figure out and solve.
It's easy to bash and stomp on everything they come up with and not bring up any usable argument yourself.
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